We now know what Bolster will be set at and why pvpers will start leaving AGAIN.

[Totemdancer]

Bioware announce another bad decision to put another nail in the pvp coffin

 

Hey folks,

 

The current plan is that in 5.10 bolster will have the following item ratings:

• Gear - 248 (up from 242)
  
• Augments - 236 (up from 208)
  

As always this is subject to change and I will let you know of any other adjustments. Thanks!

 

-eric

 

That’s it for me. I give up on these guys every caring enough to listen to actual pvp players feed back.

People who play this part of the game nearly exclusively have a much better understand of what will and won’t work in it,

Bioware refuse to consult with the community and forge ahead with bad ideas when we give over whelming feed back as to why it won’t work or how to improve it,

There is no logic in that office unless you apply this premise, “they want the game to fail by driving dedicated players from it”

Well, they’re going to succeed, wether it’s intentional or not. This will undo everything they’ve done in their “pvp of summer” and it will encourage more players to leave. What a complete waste of their time and money. Why did they even bother with it,

Edited October 30, 2018 by Totemdancer

[ultimarb]

Bioware announce another bad decision to put another nail in the pvp coffin

 

 

 

That’s it for me. I give up on these guys every caring enough to listen to actual pvp players feed back.

People who play this part of the game nearly exclusively have a much better understand of what will and won’t work in it,

Bioware refuse to consult with the community and forge ahead with bad ideas when we give over whelming feed back as to why it won’t work or how to improve it,

There is no logic in that office unless you apply this premise, “they want the game to fail by driving dedicated players from it”

Well, they’re going to succeed, wether it’s intentional or not. This will undo everything they’ve done in their “pvp of summer” and it will encourage more players to leave. What a complete waste of their time and money. Why did they even bother with it,

 

This is post 10738 from you regarding the pvp/gear/bolster topic. you made your point clear. you think you are the perfect blue scheme for a pvp. you are not. none of them i was walkting to the last dayd, month & weeks were complaining. it's just the same 5-10 people around these board who do.

what ist your problem with the new bolster? bolster was EVER 2 Gear Tiers lower than BiS. Nothing changed.

You'll also get bolsterd to 236 augments. soemthing that 98% percent of this game population wouldnt even have in their gear. this will be a huge buff of bolstering compared to prior 5.10.

 

Your are just talking the same old lame line over and over again. you wont even bother with arguments totally going rampage to your same old lines again.

 

if you think you will be shred by "PVE Master Mode Raiders" in REGULAR Warzones maybe you should start practicing your classes. In my opinion you are one of those guys who cant put up a decent hps/dps but it's the fault of everyone else.

[Totemdancer]

This is post 10738 from you regarding the pvp/gear/bolster topic. you made your point clear. you think you are the perfect blue scheme for a pvp. you are not. none of them i was walkting to the last dayd, month & weeks were complaining. it's just the same 5-10 people around these board who do.

what ist your problem with the new bolster? bolster was EVER 2 Gear Tiers lower than BiS. Nothing changed.

You'll also get bolsterd to 236 augments. soemthing that 98% percent of this game population wouldnt even have in their gear. this will be a huge buff of bolstering compared to prior 5.10.

 

Your are just talking the same old lame line over and over again. you wont even bother with arguments totally going rampage to your same old lines again.

 

if you think you will be shred by "PVE Master Mode Raiders" in REGULAR Warzones maybe you should start practicing your classes. In my opinion you are one of those guys who cant put up a decent hps/dps but it's the fault of everyone else.

 

Don’t like, don’t read it. Simple,

[ultimarb]

Don’t like, don’t read it. Simple,

As I mentioned... you have a lack of discussions skills...

you are ignoring all arguments against your postings. go on living in your bubble.

[MackPol]

Fyi, difference between 242 and 248 is 6 lvls, 248 between 258 is 10 lvls.

Not only they make all grinding so far redundant and money spent on augs, but also make a difference between bolster and BiS bigger then currently. It is a fine idea indeed.

[Totemdancer]

Fyi, difference between 242 and 248 is 6 lvls, 248 between 258 is 10 lvls.

Not only they make all grinding so far redundant and money spent on augs, but also make a difference between bolster and BiS bigger then currently. It is a fine idea indeed.

 

They should just remove Augments from the Bolster equation altogether. Then everyone is on a lvl playing field with regards to Augments

[Rafiknoll]

it's just the same 5-10 people around these board who do.

 

Well, how many people frequent the English PVP forums and bother writing long posts in there these days? 5-10 is probably about a half of the active forum posters here who don't stick to a single subject and don't post single lines of "agree" and "disagree". It doesn't prove that the entire PVP community is for this change, but the fact that there are "only" 5-10 doesn't at all make them singletons.

 

what ist your problem with the new bolster? bolster was EVER 2 Gear Tiers lower than BiS. Nothing changed.

You'll also get bolsterd to 236 augments. soemthing that 98% percent of this game population wouldnt even have in their gear. this will be a huge buff of bolstering compared to prior 5.10.

 

1. "Ever" as in 5.X (while X>0, because in 5.0 it was in fact bolstered all the way 1 tier ABOVE BiS. It was 252)...

2. As someone already noted, the difference between the current (bad) situation and the new (worse) situation is that currently, gear is 6 rating points above bolster, and now it becomes 10.

3. The difficulty and effort required to acquire this gear-above-bolster (especially when speaking of gearing via PVP only) are increased by a hundredfold compared to the situation now which most people already consider a grind.

 

if you think you will be shred by "PVE Master Mode Raiders" in REGULAR Warzones maybe you should start practicing your classes. In my opinion, you are one of those guys who cant put up a decent hps/dps but it's the fault of everyone else.

 

As a matter of fact, most MM raiders that I know do enjoy the occasional regular WZ when they aren't raiding (because unlike raiding, you can queue NWZ everytime from everywhere without having to assemble a team). In spite of some stupid belief that MM raiders suck in PVP, truth is these people have to know their class and have fast response time which makes them quite good in PVP (for example, some would argue that a MM healer is better at healing 8 people efficiently compared to a RWZ star). So, raiders have decent+ skills in PVP, and assuming they won't be "nice" enough to replace their hard-earned BiS with lesser gear to make PVP fair, they will have an advantage other equally skilled non-MM-raiders.

 

"In my opinion" people who deny this simply don't understand basic math and this "opinion" is far less assumptive then your "opinion" of someone's ingame skill simply according to his (according to you) over-pessimistic posts. Another extremely based "opinion": you are among these few MM raiders who ARE as untalented in PVP as many claim and you NEED this unfair advantage to get equal footing versus pure PVPers that are better.

 

The last paragraph was sarcasm of course. My point there is: don't make such "opinions" and pretend they help you prove a point

[LD_Little_Dragon]

This is post 10738 from you regarding the pvp/gear/bolster topic. you made your point clear. you think you are the perfect blue scheme for a pvp. you are not. none of them i was walkting to the last dayd, month & weeks were complaining. it's just the same 5-10 people around these board who do.

 

It's more than the usual posters - I seldom post unless I have something new to add. It doesn't mean I'm happy with the planned changes, it just means I don't see the point in posting. Bioware's gonna do what Bioware's gonna

do.

 

Most people unhappy with a change will not post, they'll just unsub and stop playing the game.

 

I'm a casual pvp and only do a handful of warzones most days, but unlimited pvp and the occasional OP is the only reason I have right now to keep a sub running. A mediocre computer and crappy reflexes mean I use gear as a crutch, I also like playing multiple alts and specs. If it takes to long, or is too grindy, to gear them, I'll stop playing them.

 

If I stop doing warzones, and can no longer have top-tier gear to help me not be the weak link in an OP, then I will no longer have a reason to keep a continuous subscription.

[Totemdancer]

Most people unhappy with a change will not post, they'll just unsub and stop playing the game.

 

Snip

 

If I stop doing warzones, and can no longer have top-tier gear to help me not be the weak link in an OP, then I will no longer have a reason to keep a continuous subscription.

 

That’s exactly what will end up happening with a lot of people. And if those of us who are regulars on the forums don’t post our displeasure, then Bioware won’t realise till it’s too late.

[Lhancelot]

I also like playing multiple alts and specs. If it takes to long, or is too grindy, to gear them, I'll stop playing them.

 

If I stop doing warzones, and can no longer have top-tier gear to help me not be the weak link in an OP, then I will no longer have a reason to keep a continuous subscription.

 

This right here is why people are going to exit in droves. ^

 

It's going to be 5.0 all over again. Anyone that thinks the new gear grind will have no affect on the game are just not reading the tea leaves. Adding a whole new gear level to grind is 100% a waste of (supposedly) limited resources.

 

I am going to keep on posting my displeasure till my sub time runs off the forums, so if some of you don't like it too bad. Since I don't log in anymore I am going to use a few minutes every day to voice my displeasure with the direction they are taking the game.

 

They need to be reminded how dumb the design goal is that they have decided to adopt for swtor.

 

Beautiful game, sadly I value gameplay over aesthetics though. If only I was a RP/story-mode player I'd be perfectly content with swtor.

[Pearlie]

At this rate, the PvP population will dwindle until the remaining players reach an agreement to only PvP naked, rendering gear meaningless, as it should be.

[Mournblood]

At this rate, the PvP population will dwindle until the remaining players reach an agreement to only PvP naked, rendering gear meaningless, as it should be.

 

There was a time a few years back when players were actually doing that due to an exploit with Bolster.

[KendraP]

You are absolutely correct. The OP does not speak for the PVP community. Others have pointed out that because this bolsters augments to 236, people with the new bolster will be much closer to full BIS than the current bolster. Anyone who has an issue with this bolster likely thinks that the reason they lose is because of gear. It's not.

 

My issue with the new gear has nothing to do with bolster and everything to do with it being a stupid and pointless waste of effort expended destroying the currently functioning system it took them over a year to fix from the conplete disaster that was initial 5 0.

 

There is no major expansion or level cap increase; ergo there is no point in a new tier of gear. Unless of course, they cannot make the new content enjoyable or such that players desire to play said content, and thus must add the rotten carrot to get peoole to play it.

Edited October 31, 2018 by KendraP

[Mournblood]

people with the new bolster will be much closer to full BIS than the current bolster.

 

Last I heard, they are increasing Bolster to 248. The new iLevel for T5 will be 258. How exactly is that closer to BiS than what we currently have, which is 242 Bolster and max iLevel of 248? There will be a 10 iLevel difference between Bolster and BiS with 5.10, whereas it's currently a 6 iLevel difference. The math here doesn't support your claim.

 

As for Augments, thanks to 240s, 236s are relatively cheap now and so nearly everyone has them that wants them. So while it makes sense they'd increase the Augment level for the new Bolster, it won't really matter in terms of the widening gear gap coming in 5.10. As a predominantly PvP player, three of my five toons that I PvP'd on were in 240 augments, btw. I suspect the same holds true for most serious PvPers in the game.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Mournblood

[Raansu]

Here's a thought? Don't get caught up in the grind and just play? I want pvp gear back, but bolster at 248 is going to be fine. You know how rare its going to be to see someone in full 258 in pvp? Even then, the difference is not even going to be all that noticeable.....if at all. Heck, I don't even notice it now. Instead of 30k bursts I do like a 27k hit.....big whoop.

[Mournblood]

Here's a thought? Don't get caught up in the grind and just play? I want pvp gear back, but bolster at 248 is going to be fine. You know how rare its going to be to see someone in full 258 in pvp? Even then, the difference is not even going to be all that noticeable.....if at all. Heck, I don't even notice it now. Instead of 30k bursts I do like a 27k hit.....big whoop.

 

You're right, at least you will be for the first month or two. But as more and more people start showing up in WZs in full 258 gear, you will notice a difference. Is that extra 10k health or extra 5k on a crit significant by itself? Of course not. But it's not the individual aspects of gear or stats that give you an advantage - it's the combination of it all and how that in turn affects the overall dynamic of PvP. What I mean by that is someone with an extra 10k health will have that little bit of extra time for a DCD or OCD to come off cooldown, or that extra 5k damage they do on a crit may be just enough to drop you before your DCD is off cooldown, and so on. Holistically, skill being equal between two players, gear does in fact matter. And if you haven't experienced that in PvP, either you're extremely good (or you just haven't played against anyone better than you), or you haven't done enough PvP.

 

What I can tell you from my personal experience of PvPing thousands of WZ matches and hundreds of Ranked matches over the last six years is that someone of competent skill in BiS is going to beat a player of comparable skill in lower gear every time. The only time I've ever witnessed someone in lower gear beating someone in higher gear is when that person in lower gear had some actual skill, and/or the person in higher gear was mediocre or worse. But it's rare to see that happen - not that there aren't a lot of players out there who are merely mediocre (or just plain terrible) at PvP - but those who are truly skilled at PvP are by far the exception.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Mournblood

[Pearlie]

You're right, at least you will be for the first month or two. But as more and more people start showing up in WZs in full 258 gear, you will notice a difference. Is that extra 10k health or extra 5k on a crit significant by itself? Of course not. But it's not the individual aspects of gear or stats that give you an advantage - it's the combination of it all and how that in turn affects the overall dynamic of PvP. What I mean by that is someone with an extra 10k health will have that little bit of extra time for a DCD or OCD to come off cooldown, or that extra 5k damage they do on a crit may be just enough to drop you before your DCD is off cooldown, and so on. Holistically, skill being equal between two players, gear does in fact matter. And if you haven't experienced that in PvP, either you're extremely good (or you just haven't played against anyone better than you), or you haven't done enough PvP.

 

What I can tell you from my personal experience of PvPing thousands of WZ matches and hundreds of Ranked matches over the last six years is that someone of competent skill in BiS is going to beat a player of comparable skill in lower gear every time. The only time I've ever witnessed someone in lower gear beating someone in higher gear is when that person in lower gear had some actual skill, and/or the person in higher gear was mediocre or worse. But it's rare to see that happen - not that there aren't a lot of players out there who are merely mediocre (or just plain terrible) at PvP - but those who are truly skilled at PvP are by far the exception.

 

This human gets it.

[Totemdancer]

You're right, at least you will be for the first month or two. But as more and more people start showing up in WZs in full 258 gear, you will notice a difference. Is that extra 10k health or extra 5k on a crit significant by itself? Of course not. But it's not the individual aspects of gear or stats that give you an advantage - it's the combination of it all and how that in turn affects the overall dynamic of PvP. What I mean by that is someone with an extra 10k health will have that little bit of extra time for a DCD or OCD to come off cooldown, or that extra 5k damage they do on a crit may be just enough to drop you before your DCD is off cooldown, and so on. Holistically, skill being equal between two players, gear does in fact matter. And if you haven't experienced that in PvP, either you're extremely good (or you just haven't played against anyone better than you), or you haven't done enough PvP.

 

What I can tell you from my personal experience of PvPing thousands of WZ matches and hundreds of Ranked matches over the last six years is that someone of competent skill in BiS is going to beat a player of comparable skill in lower gear every time. The only time I've ever witnessed someone in lower gear beating someone in higher gear is when that person in lower gear had some actual skill, and/or the person in higher gear was mediocre or worse. But it's rare to see that happen - not that there aren't a lot of players out there who are merely mediocre (or just plain terrible) at PvP - but those who are truly skilled at PvP are by far the exception.

 

Yep, that’s exactly the point.

[Lundorff]

You know how rare its going to be to see someone in full 258 in pvp?

 

We will be seeing several within the first week in ranked. Those who only main 1 or 2 characters are currently sitting at enormous amounts of UCs, and will buying the new sets outright no matter the price. Bolster at +258 or PVP gear is the only solution, but of course that is not going to happen.

[Severith]

I don't see what the alarm is all about.

 

Once the NIM raiders get their mains, their alts, their guildies, and all their friends in 258 then we'll start to see them being sold on the GTN. Should only take about 4 or 5 months. Then we'll start to see the 258s being sold at the GTN. A 258 belt or bracer will probably only go for about 300-400 million, so at that point it would be maybe only 5 or 6 billion to get a toon fully loaded out.

 

Just imagine walking into a warzone in 258s when all the paupers are stuck in the cruddy 248s. You'll finally be the pvp master you always knew you were, because all your damage, heals, hp and crit rates will be better than anyone else's will be. You'll also get a permanent speed boost because you won't have as many of those pesky credits to drag around.

 

People will finally respect you because they know you earned every bit of it. You were clever enough to buy the hypercrates and datacrons from the cartel market, and sold them for the credits to buy the best gear in the game. You were smart enough to buy every resonably priced item in the GTN and then jack up the prices on your monopolies. Because pvp isn't player vs player, it's pocket vs pocket. You are the pvp master, and you don't need valor level 60 to prove it.

[NogueiraA]

So the solution to all of this would be cap the max gear inside Wz to 248?

Bolster everyone to 248 gear + 236 aug. Problem solved?

People full 258 would be "toned down" a bit inside Wz's.

[Mournblood]

So the solution to all of this would be cap the max gear inside Wz to 248?

Bolster everyone to 248 gear + 236 aug. Problem solved?

People full 258 would be "toned down" a bit inside Wz's.

 

No, the solution would be to raise Bolster to 258/240 to equal the new gear cap. At the very least, it needs to be 252 to keep the current Bolster gear gap the same as it is now, which isn't better, but it's not worse either.

 

But none of that is going to happen. Bioware has made up their minds, and the almighty developer knows what's best for the players.

[NogueiraA]

No, the solution would be to raise Bolster to 258/240 to equal the new gear cap. At the very least, it needs to be 252 to keep the current Bolster gear gap the same as it is now, which isn't better, but it's not worse either.

 

But none of that is going to happen. Bioware has made up their minds, and the almighty developer knows what's best for the players.

 

Hmmm, got it...

What is the word they've used on 5.0 launch? .... EXCITING wasn't it?

[Totemdancer]

No, the solution would be to raise Bolster to 258/240 to equal the new gear cap. At the very least, it needs to be 252 to keep the current Bolster gear gap the same as it is now, which isn't better, but it's not worse either.

 

But none of that is going to happen. Bioware has made up their minds, and the almighty developer knows what's best for the players.

 

And that is why they fail.

[Totemdancer]

Hmmm, got it...

What is the word they've used on 5.0 launch? .... EXCITING wasn't it?

 

Now we just need Keith to come out and say it like Ben so we can start the meme’s

 

#BenIrvingExciting