light/darkside choices, extremely shallow.

[Razhah]

I understand what the OP is saying and sometimes the choices do feel rather shallow. However, when I first rolled my JK, there's a quest where you come to this encampment and encounter an older couple. The man has been injured and asks you to gather some power convertors (or something) and bring them to him... that's the way he's been feeding himself and his wife, the only thing keeping them from starving. Your job is to go out, gather the power convertors, charge them and bring them back. Ok, no problem.

 

Except on the quest you encounter a guy who says he needs to find who is steeling the power convertors or "The Powers That Be" (can't recall if it was his commanding officer, a Sith Lord or what) would kill him. So he asks you to place a bug on one of the power convertors before you give it back to the old starving couple.

 

I was really torn about this one... WWAJD (What would a Jedi do?)... let the couple starve by refusing the quest, let the worker dude die by refusing to bug the convertors, or what?

 

I ended up bugging the convertors and giving them to the elderly starving couple. Wish I could remember if I got light or dark side points for it but I can't.

 

Anyway... definitely not shallow in that instance.

 

 

Yes this is a Hutta quest. I did it on my Bounty Hunter and since I made his character to be one where he always fulfills the contracts he agrees to, I chose to leave the foreman's family at the mercy of the Hutts. The old man hired me and no one was gonna buy me out of my mission. I got dark side points though so your choice to bug them was a light side choice.

[DarkSeverance]

hardly, jedi are not saints

I never said they were saints. No religious order or member of it is 100% or always a saint. However it isn't about the order but about the ideal itself.

 

Which they enforce, either through manipulating the outcome with force powers, or by force, and who appointed them to be the police for galaxy, who gave them the RIGHT to decide to meddle in EVERYONE BUSINESS???

The Republic.

 

But don't free slaves anywhere, or randomly help people unless the high and mighty jedi counsel had said to do that

Are you playing the game or read any of the books. Pretty sure every side quest where you free someone or randomly help someone, the Jedi Council didn't approve or authorize it. They do not need approval unless it is involving breaking laws or causing an intergalactic incident.

 

Unless your follow the dark side beliefs, or don't agree with them

The Jedi Code doesn't apply to anyone following the darkside, hence darkside. The Sith Code applies to darkside users.

 

They made themselves masters of the universe, they are the only ones who can maintain balance in the force, self appointed rulers, people fear jedi, military obey them, governments beg for their help to settle problems, jedi serve themselves.

The military don't obey them. Although they do retain ranks as appointed by the Republic themselves. The Republic set them up and the Jedi agreed to be the Republic's guardians of peace and justice. Governments beg Jedi because often the Republic officially can't get involved, without choosing a side, creating an Intergalactic incident or alienating their own allies. The Jedi are technically considered neutral by everyone except the Empire.

 

With time and facilities paid for by others, don't see jedi working at the shipping dock 9 to 5 for a paycheck, fixing that broke fighter plane during the day, no, they live off the backs of others.

Quite a few Jedi do have other occupations or help out. Most of the time this is in exchange for services. The Jedi themselves are funded by the Republic as well as donations from other governments and agencies as well.

[DarkSeverance]

A lot of actions have no reason, you don't help your self you don't help the empire you just do it because well you're evil?

I'm not completely disagreeing with you but does Evil really have a reason to do anything? It is why it is... well Evil. Edited December 29, 2011 by DarkSeverance

[Corolie]

I will avoid spoilers but quite some options are beyond stupid, it isn't even cliché .

A lot of actions have no reason, you don't help your self you don't help the empire you just do it because well you're evil?

 

I would even take the argument' because it's fun' but than make a character than shows that he/she likes total anarchy.

But this is not the case either, it's just being evil for the sake of being evil.

Doing random stupid evil actions because hey it's evil.

 

Ooooh I think to differ... I actually like playing a Chaotic Evil Character... lol Better then being a tool for the Jedi or Sith... You can do whenever The Heck you want at any given time... No Code... or Master shall hold you back, and if anyone is trying to get in your way... Paint your lightsaber with his/her blood muhahahahahahahaha!!!!!! There... They have become one with the force...

Edited December 29, 2011 by Corolie

[TheHauntingBard]

I'm not completely disagreeing with you but does Evil really have a reason to do anything? It is why it is... well Evil.

 

Actually yes a evil char with a motivation tends to have more depth.

Take the joker from batman regardless of the character being out right evil it does have a reason.

 

The voice acting doesn't indicate the char enjoys it or is straight out a cold psychopathy killer.

Thing is you can make it make sense but Bioware does reward you for going black/white.

 

IF they intended that than well they could have made evil more dynamic.

[kyrinthic]

I remember a jedi knight quest that I really liked in this regards

 

** SPOILER **

 

On tython the twilek that you help asks if you would become a 'sister' to her, and help show the closeness of the pilgrims and yourself. The lightside choice was to say no, and walk away. The darkside choice was to do it, despiite the jedi code against attachments.

 

Neither choice was evil, and it was a hard choice to make. The light and dark options made sense.

 

But a lot of quests are not as well done as this one to be sure. And some that could be, are ruined by trying to hard to villianize a character to make the options more obvious (the romantic apprentices come to mind here, if they had been more discreet it would be a lot harder to justify turning them in).

[imtrick]

The fact that lying, bribery, and pseudo-prostitution was going to give me Light Side points, and the only way to attain Dark Side points was to play the homicidal maniac just disgusted me on an entirely new level.

 

Given the choice between the two, you can't actually think it should be reversed?

[Morgasi]

Yes this is a Hutta quest. I did it on my Bounty Hunter and since I made his character to be one where he always fulfills the contracts he agrees to, I chose to leave the foreman's family at the mercy of the Hutts. The old man hired me and no one was gonna buy me out of my mission. I got dark side points though so your choice to bug them was a light side choice.

 

Yes, I think you're correct because I remember thinking how in the world did I get light side points for just condemning an elderly couple to death when they were only trying to feed themselves? And all that to save an Imperial worker (soldier?). It didn't make much sense but to contradict the OP's point, the choices were certainly not shallow... had to think about that one.

 

But some of them are kind of dorky... simplistic choices only for the sake of being "good" or "evil". I prefer dark side toons (my Bounty Hunter was the alt I was on when on the quest mentioned, not my JK, my bad) and I also have a Sith Warrior I'm enjoying but I like to play them "moderately evil" and I mostly end up with a lot of light side points. At some point I'm going to have to just be plain "evil" to see the other storyline I guess.

[DarkSeverance]

Take the joker from batman regardless of the character being out right evil it does have a reason.

To be fair the Joker isn't exactly evil as he is more insane. Now when insane and evil intersect that is an entirely different discussion.

 

To be fair though the Darkside isn't a true measure of just evil or bad. There is a philosophy behind the darkside. It can influence others, be used as a tool just as easily as the lightside. In SW novels they joke that Han Solo has to be a Jedi to fly the way he does and survive. He isn't a Jedi but he does have a certain amount of Lightside that influences and helps him in situations... he just doesn't see it. Often people excuse natural talent and gifts as just that but quite a few are because they are effected by the force.

 

The Sith Code is just a broad as the Jedi Code though. It can be easily interpretative as killing makes you stronger. Murderous urges, although don't make sense, is a passion. They gain through it and through that power. I'm not saying that is the reason behind it, but it is a contributing factor of why Darth Vader force chokes anyone who fails him... they don't do it again.

 

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

Through passion, I gain strength.

Through strength, I gain power.

Through power, I gain victory.

Through victory, my chains are broken.

The Force shall free me.

[Brene]

Huh, a single typo, that is rather clearly a typo, the entire post is still legible with that typo and the main point still comes across rather clear - in my opinion, anyway - Ye,a lets point it out and bring nothing to the topic.

 

Just an FYI, a spelling error is not a typo.

 

Just saying.

[gundamemo]

Most choices are blend, but some sticks out in your mind.

 

On my jedi knight, there's a side quest for "true republic" to gather this package from delivery droid on a politican who wants to break away from jedi and join the empire.

 

You got caught the his aid and was given the choice to light/follow the code and not steal the package or dark/steal the package and expose of his corruption.

 

I'm like, how could turning in a CORRUPT politican who wants to kick out Jedi and join the empire be a DARK/EVIL point?

 

I understand the underlying concept of follow the code and all that, but I feel like (I went light) I'm 90s RPG, boring protagonist going around doing everyone's errand.

 

But good choice nonetheless (I turn the politican in)

[DarkSeverance]

The voice acting doesn't indicate the char enjoys it or is straight out a cold psychopathy killer.

To be fair that falls on the side of err of casting and voice acting. Only a handful of the voice actors are actual voice actors. The rest are actors which is a different skill on its own. Voice acting itself isn't easy. Watch some old anime from the 80s and compare it to much more current anime voice acting. There is a huge difference, but it does change the meaning. Probably why I watch more anime in subtitles though because some of the voice acting changes the meaning of the intent.

[DarkSeverance]

I'm like, how could turning in a CORRUPT politican who wants to kick out Jedi and join the empire be a DARK/EVIL point?

It actually does a good job of explaining that though. Who made the Jedi the Judge and Jury to determine they were corrupt? The Jedi is going off just what one person said, one person he doesn't know and has no evidence to back the claim. You are simply going off of someones word.

[XenonParsec]

I wanted to make my own thread in relation to this topic, but I'll just post here since I've read others expressing the same: there's no option to be neutral.

 

I mean, sure, you CAN be, but then you don't qualify for lots of gear requiring some tier in LS or DS. It's stupid. No Jedi can be grey like Jolee Bindo from KOTOR, and no Sith can be a Revanite. Or you can, but apparently Revan and Jolee used level 10 unaligned gear their whole lives.

 

I've always played the KOTOR games with my own personal ethics and values as guides to my choices, and I always end up neutral (same with the MA games). I can't play the story of my character the way I want if I want to have relics or other gear for pvp, I have to "grind" alignment and then still alter my choices so i dont get too much LS so I can get xyz item that's t3 DS.

 

So I can have good gear, or companion gear and roleplay my story the way I prefer. Idiotic choice. anyway, just sounding off about this here. This game needs a Revanite/Grey Jedi option.

[imtrick]

It actually does a good job of explaining that though. Who made the Jedi the Judge and Jury to determine they were corrupt? The Jedi is going off just what one person said, one person he doesn't know and has no evidence to back the claim. You are simply going off of someones word.

 

It even goes beyond that, explaining that the senator has free speech under the laws of the Republic.

 

I thought this particular quest was one of the more interesting ones, in that you need to choose between defending the ideals of the Republic or working against those ideals to defeat someone whose ideals you disagree with. I think they got this one right. History's full of examples where it may be safer to violate your principles to get the results you desire, but it's almost never the right thing to do.

Edited December 29, 2011 by imtrick

[DarkSeverance]

I mean, sure, you CAN be, but then you don't qualify for lots of gear requiring some tier in LS or DS. It's stupid. No Jedi can be grey like Jolee Bindo from KOTOR, and no Sith can be a Revanite. Or you can, but apparently Revan and Jolee used level 10 unaligned gear their whole lives.

If you look through the item database and compare gear vs gear that doesn't require alignment there is actually just as much equivalent gear though. Not a lot of the drops and the locations have been updated in the databases so it is more a matter of that being discovered. And as they have said, they are looking to add more neutral gear as well.

[acheros]

If you look through the item database and compare gear vs gear that doesn't require alignment there is actually just as much equivalent gear though. Not a lot of the drops and the locations have been updated in the databases so it is more a matter of that being discovered. And as they have said, they are looking to add more neutral gear as well.

 

Can't speak for end game, but the only things i've noticed that have alignment requirements are color crystals and i've seen -one- relic that requires darkside 1 to use.

 

thats it, im level 32 and all my gear, but the relic and my lightsaber(red crystal) is neutral.

[DarkSeverance]

Can't speak for end game, but the only things i've noticed that have alignment requirements are color crystals and i've seen -one- relic that requires darkside 1 to use.

As an example here is just what is currently known via the databases.

 

Items:

31924 items

31102 items that do not require alignment

822 items that require alignment

- 407 items require lightside

- 415 items require darkside

 

Armor:

14156 pieces of armor

13759 pieces of armor that do not require alignment

397 armor requires alignment

- 195 armor requires light

- 202 armor requires dark

 

Weapons:

3245 weapons

2822 weapons do not require alignment

423 weapons that require alignment

- 212 weapons require light

- 211 weapons require dark

 

Mods:

9571 mods

9569 mods do not require alignment

- 2 mods require dark

[kyrinthic]

As an example here is just what is currently known via the databases.

 

Items:

31924 items

31102 items that do not require alignment

822 items that require alignment

- 407 items require lightside

- 415 items require darkside

 

Armor:

14156 pieces of armor

13759 pieces of armor that do not require alignment

397 armor requires alignment

- 195 armor requires light

- 202 armor requires dark

 

Weapons:

3245 weapons

2822 weapons do not require alignment

423 weapons that require alignment

- 212 weapons require light

- 211 weapons require dark

 

Mods:

9571 mods

9569 mods do not require alignment

- 2 mods require dark

 

so roughly 98% of the gear in the game does not require alignment, and the other 2% is split roughly evenly between light and dark. Meaning that making a choice gives you access to roughly 1% more gear than not making a choice.

[DarkSeverance]

so roughly 98% of the gear in the game does not require alignment, and the other 2% is split roughly evenly between light and dark. Meaning that making a choice gives you access to roughly 1% more gear than not making a choice.

It isn't just that it also only gives you access to roughly 1% more gear but almost anything that is available by making a choice... has a neutral counterpart. For example:

 

Relics: 168

78 relics require no alignment

45 relics require light

45 relics require dark

 

Almost every light and dark relic has a neutral counterpart that is the same if not very close. Most of the light/dark armor are mod-able only giving people a certain look as the gear is dependent on the mods you use. Everything else that offers a slight advantage, that advantage is slight.

 

It is basically the same as CE Vendor. Sure they have access to some things, they are neither game breaking nor earth shattering. They get that option because they paid for a Collectors Edition. Light and darkside get those options because they picked a side. There isn't anything stopping people from playing the way they want, except misconceptions. You aren't really min/maxing anything by going fully light or dark.

 

Unless someone spends the entire game making sure they make exactly lightside choices to counter the dark, at some point player is going to eventually cap their points one way or another. Because they will be adding more content, more choices, this happens over time as well as doing flashpoints.

Edited December 29, 2011 by DarkSeverance

[Greyfeld]

Given the choice between the two, you can't actually think it should be reversed?

 

I think that the fact that those were my only two choices was ridiculous in the first place.

 

Personally, I think both options should have given dark side points. I spent several dialogue choices leading him on and trying to manipulate him into not blowing my cover, obviously I'm going for the dark side option. I don't need a "get out of stupidity free" card at the end of the conversation.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Greyfeld

[DarkSeverance]

I think that the fact that those were my only two choices was ridiculous in the first place.

From an Imperial Agent standpoint what other options are there? You chose not to pay his bribe. That leaves killing someone who could expose you or paying them through another method. Are you supposed to ask him nicely not to turn you in for nothing?

 

Killing him = darkside

Him living = lightside

 

Not sure I'd completely agree. Not to mention only giving a darkside option then leaves you stuck with darkside options. There is always a choice.

Edited December 29, 2011 by DarkSeverance

[Greyfeld]

From an Imperial Agent standpoint what other options are there? You chose not to pay his bribe. That leaves killing someone who could expose you or paying them through another method. Are you supposed to ask him nicely not to turn you in for nothing?

 

Read my edit.

[DarkSeverance]

Read my edit.

Read mine. ^_^

[XenonParsec]

so roughly 98% of the gear in the game does not require alignment, and the other 2% is split roughly evenly between light and dark. Meaning that making a choice gives you access to roughly 1% more gear than not making a choice.

 

Are you guys in all greens? I'm talking about min/maxing gear for pvp. I'm level 37, and everything I've seen worth buying from the various vendors (did the guy above whos seen one relic, ever even been to the DS/LS vendors?) requires some tier of alignment.

 

This isn't via datamining some website to make a point on a forum, this is through regular play of the game. To get my next two relic slots filled for critical boosts and alacrity for lvl 36, t3 DS. For my nice pvp saber was DS t2. There are other examples.

 

So again, if I want to gimp myself in garbage items or fare poorly at pvp, I could use your guy's gear suggestion, and we're back to the stupid choice again.

Edited December 29, 2011 by XenonParsec