acheros Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 So, recently i've decided to make a few alts to experience at least the starting planet and storyline for more classes. and i have to say, i was expecting alot more from the alignment system for some of these classes. My first character was a sith inquisitor, so the shallow choices didn't seem unnatural, they were basically "help people" versus "let them suffer and die" or "torture him" versus "not doing that.." However, i've noticed they're that shallow for just about -all- the characters. Even when it doesn't make sense. The character i'm currently playing is a jedi knight, i was expecting lightside to be honor the code to the letter, protect the weak from the strong, standard good guy stuff. Where as darkside would be more, well..following emotions. No jedi to my knowledge fell to the darkside because he was a homocidal maniac. They fell because of their emotions swaying them to ignore the code, and while "kill them" or "spare them" is a perfectly valid choice, i was expecting MORE then those being the majority of them. Alittle depth in the characters goes along way.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisslanza Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Not all light side and dark side choices are "made equal". Yes, not following the code is considered a "dark side" option, but it's not a lot of dark side points. If you did something really bad, I imagine you'd gain 150-200 points or something, instead of the 50 I get for the occasional not following the code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixStar Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) No jedi to my knowledge fell to the darkside because he was a homocidal maniac. They fell because of their emotions swaying them to ignore the code, and while "kill them" or "spare them" is a perfectly valid choice, i was expecting MORE then those being the majority of them. Alittle depth in the characters goes along way.. Homocidal? He only kills same gender victims? Edited December 29, 2011 by PhoenixStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acheros Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Homocidal? He only kills same gender victims? Huh, a single typo, that is rather clearly a typo, the entire post is still legible with that typo and the main point still comes across rather clear - in my opinion, anyway - Ye,a lets point it out and bring nothing to the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerreborn Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Homocidal? He only kills same gender victims? That would actually be a really fun way to play. Sit there in an op ignoring the female guards because you refuse to. Kill them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhirne Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I know playing a Jedi, on Tython you're still a Padawan, so the choices you get are kinda cut and dry. As you progress through the game, your choices become more and more not so clear - esp. in the class story quests. I know on Coruscant, there is a side quest that everytime I've done it, I've come to the exact same conclusion at the end of the quest and have always said "Don't ever ask me to do this again." Once you get past the prologue, the class quest LS/DS choices will make you stop and think before choosing, as will some of the side quest options. The start planets are just those - starter planets. They're there to get you into the game and get you started. and the capital planet is there to get you acclimated into your AC. The devs have stated that they actually keep track of how long it takes you to respond in a CS. They've noted that they have changed choices depending on how long it takes people to respond; and they can tell when you're thinking about the choice your about to make. But as you progress, the choices do become a bit more "blurred" as it were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emencie Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Not only are they shallow options but most of them don’t make any sense from a moral standpoint. I cannot phrase it better than Knoxpwns there is some times where the obvious good or bad isn't really fitting at all. for example, in my class quest, I found my imprisoned arch-enemy, so I force him to beg for his release, and when he does, I go "jk go **** yourself" and leave him in the ship to rot, the ship that I will be momentarily blowing to hell with the entire crew aboard just to prove a point. Meanwhile, I disable any chance they have at saving themselves so I can be 100% sure they all die in the vacuum of space, and that's if the explosions don't rip and mangle their flesh beforehand. +100 light side. Clearly I was being a nice guy there. The problem is that there isn’t a Lawful/Unlawful - Good/Evil Morality line instead they clump everything together. Lightsided is sometimes being compassionate and sometimes following the laws of the order even if it hurts someone. Its completely inconsistent and confusing. My favorite is when I chose to save a holocron with information that could save thousands of lives but doing so I had no time left over to save a single woman… Darkside points… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guiltless Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I noticed a few points where I was confused in the light/dark choice, but I think they have a great system overall. What points in particular do you have a problem with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirshatha Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) My favorite was the courascant quest with the over bearing husband who's wife was "kidnapped" and force to work as a prostitute. Turns out she ran off and chose to work in a brothel because she doesn't like her husband. While talking with her, one of the dialogue options is something along the lines of "You really should go back and tell your husband the truth" but, towards the end of the dialogue, the light-side option is for ME to go back and lie to the husband and tell him she's dead. And it's not even that the husband is a horrible person, over bearing and insecure sure, but it's not like he's beating her on a daily basis. But the light side option is to lie and then run away. Edited December 29, 2011 by Tirshatha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgasi Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I understand what the OP is saying and sometimes the choices do feel rather shallow. However, when I first rolled my JK, there's a quest where you come to this encampment and encounter an older couple. The man has been injured and asks you to gather some power convertors (or something) and bring them to him... that's the way he's been feeding himself and his wife, the only thing keeping them from starving. Your job is to go out, gather the power convertors, charge them and bring them back. Ok, no problem. Except on the quest you encounter a guy who says he needs to find who is steeling the power convertors or "The Powers That Be" (can't recall if it was his commanding officer, a Sith Lord or what) would kill him. So he asks you to place a bug on one of the power convertors before you give it back to the old starving couple. I was really torn about this one... WWAJD (What would a Jedi do?)... let the couple starve by refusing the quest, let the worker dude die by refusing to bug the convertors, or what? I ended up bugging the convertors and giving them to the elderly starving couple. Wish I could remember if I got light or dark side points for it but I can't. Anyway... definitely not shallow in that instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerElectronic Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 the morality system in this game is completely ret. that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrigOrion Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I understand what the OP is saying and sometimes the choices do feel rather shallow. However, when I first rolled my JK, there's a quest where you come to this encampment and encounter an older couple. The man has been injured and asks you to gather some power convertors (or something) and bring them to him... that's the way he's been feeding himself and his wife, the only thing keeping them from starving. Your job is to go out, gather the power convertors, charge them and bring them back. Ok, no problem. Except on the quest you encounter a guy who says he needs to find who is steeling the power convertors or "The Powers That Be" (can't recall if it was his commanding officer, a Sith Lord or what) would kill him. So he asks you to place a bug on one of the power convertors before you give it back to the old starving couple. I was really torn about this one... WWAJD (What would a Jedi do?)... let the couple starve by refusing the quest, let the worker dude die by refusing to bug the convertors, or what? I ended up bugging the convertors and giving them to the elderly starving couple. Wish I could remember if I got light or dark side points for it but I can't. Anyway... definitely not shallow in that instance. That quest is on Hutta. How did you do it as a Jedi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSeverance Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 No jedi to my knowledge fell to the darkside because he was a homocidal maniac.You do understand that 'Homicidal Maniac' does deal with emotions, urges and desires. They all aspects of the darkside as the light/dark isn't completely and only about emotions making them deviate from the code. There is a difference between just killing someone and killing someone while in the defense of yourself or someone else. Ultimately it is the death of someone, however there are different emotional bonds and mental stress that come with both depending on their circumstances. When Luke Skywalker rewrites the Jedi Code, he dumbs it down so that others who don't understand the force know what the true purpose is: Jedi are the guardians of peace in the galaxy. Jedi use their powers to defend and to protect. Jedi respect all life, in any form. Jedi serve others rather than ruling over them, for the good of the galaxy. Jedi seek to improve themselves through knowledge and training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PibbyPib Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 My favorite was the courascant quest with the over bearing husband who's wife was "kidnapped" and force to work as a prostitute. Turns out she ran off and chose to work in a brothel because she doesn't like her husband. While talking with her, one of the dialogue options is something along the lines of "You really should go back and tell your husband the truth" but, towards the end of the dialogue, the light-side option is for ME to go back and lie to the husband and tell him she's dead. And it's not even that the husband is a horrible person, over bearing and insecure sure, but it's not like he's beating her on a daily basis. But the light side option is to lie and then run away. Yeah-- that one was so weird. Seemed to me like she ought to tell him she was going instead of leaving the guy in torment, thinking she'd been kidnapped into some kind of slave prostitution. NOPE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stugotz Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) My favorite was the courascant quest with the over bearing husband who's wife was "kidnapped" and force to work as a prostitute. Turns out she ran off and chose to work in a brothel because she doesn't like her husband. While talking with her, one of the dialogue options is something along the lines of "You really should go back and tell your husband the truth" but, towards the end of the dialogue, the light-side option is for ME to go back and lie to the husband and tell him she's dead. And it's not even that the husband is a horrible person, over bearing and insecure sure, but it's not like he's beating her on a daily basis. But the light side option is to lie and then run away. Yeah, that was a stupid quest on a couple of levels. Edited December 29, 2011 by Stugotz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSeverance Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 And it's not even that the husband is a horrible person, over bearing and insecure sure, but it's not like he's beating her on a daily basis. But the light side option is to lie and then run away.Actually you don't know that he isn't. If someone had to run away and fake their own kidnapping or death, there is a probably cause and justification to say that there is something wrong with the husband. The first sign is when he rants that everyone is racist against aliens, even if you are an alien yourself. It was at least the first sign he wasn't exactly all there. He may not of been beating her, but there is mental abuse and if he knew she was alive, no telling if he'd go after her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astasia Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Sorry but I find the OP completely false. The JK is a perfect example of what you are asking for, missions where you either follow the Jedi code and expose a relationship between two padawans, or break the code and lie for them. Or an even better example where you have the option to form a personal tie with another NPC which is again against the code and darkside, while refusing them is the lightside option. The only thing shallow about it is how there's no lasting impact from your choices. You go through a ritual and become family with a character, but then can never see them again after that planet. You can't even stop in to say hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgasi Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 That quest is on Hutta. How did you do it as a Jedi? You're right. Maybe it was on my Bounty Hunter. I have three alts and they are all blurring together. LOL Point is, whoever you are, the choice isn't shallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuj Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) I'm really not going to sit here and argue with you that you're wrong about Jedi Knight choices on the starting planet. I can understand why someone who doesn't look more deeply into the themes of the choices (Revenge, Lust, Power, Etc) would think "Oh Em Gee, it's just choosing to kill stuff vs not choosing to kill stuff," but I have to say, I strongly disagree with you. I should clarify that I am not implying that you did not look more deeply into the choices, just that if someone did not I can see where the idea that there is no 'depth' would come from. It's there, you just have to look. Edited December 29, 2011 by Yuuj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSeverance Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Edit: Double posted from accidentally refresh. DELETE ME! Edited December 29, 2011 by DarkSeverance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHauntingBard Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Playing my Sith inquisitor and I am a bit disappointed there is no gear for neutral options. While both Light side and Dark side sith are 'evil' they have a different approach. Evil: Basically it's stupid evil, every one has to die no matter what kill murder . Even if it's pointless and not beneficial it is Not all dark side options are like that but the majority is. Light: Some light side options are pure evil, they are worse than dark side options. all with all a light side Sith serves the empire and isn't a random maniac with out a brain. They do have some goody good options but a neutral player could work around that. I am playing dark side and up to now I regret it, it's always the same thing. Think of the most idiotic way to be evil and voila it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyfeld Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I had a similar problem with this, and the choices crop up from time to time that make me just go, "LOL what the hell??" *IMPERIAL AGENT SPOILERS* On Hutta, I ran into the guy that actually knew who the Red Blade was. As a female character, I was flirting my way out of having to pay him to keep his mouth shut. My intent was to string him along just long enough until he was no longer useful. However, I got to a point where my options pretty much boiled down to sleeping with him (Light Side points) or killing him (Dark Side points). The fact that lying, bribery, and pseudo-prostitution was going to give me Light Side points, and the only way to attain Dark Side points was to play the homicidal maniac just disgusted me on an entirely new level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owenthorn Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Jedi are the guardians of peace in the galaxy. Which they enforce, either through manipulating the outcome with force powers, or by force, and who appointed them to be the police for galaxy, who gave them the RIGHT to decide to meddle in EVERYONE BUSINESS??? Jedi use their powers to defend and to protect. But don't free slaves anywhere, or randomly help people unless the high and mighty jedi counsel had said to do that Jedi respect all life, in any form. Unless your follow the dark side beliefs, or don't agree with them Jedi serve others rather than ruling over them, for the good of the galaxy. w They made themselves masters of the universe, they are the only ones who can maintain balance in the force, self appointed rulers, people fear jedi, military obey them, governments beg for their help to settle problems, jedi serve themselves Jedi seek to improve themselves through knowledge and training. With time and facilities paid for by others, don't see jedi working at the shipping dock 9 to 5 for a paycheck, fixing that broke fighter plane during the day, no, they live off the backs of others hardly, jedi are not saints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithZigg Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Playing my Sith inquisitor and I am a bit disappointed there is no gear for neutral options. While both Light side and Dark side sith are 'evil' they have a different approach. Evil: Basically it's stupid evil, every one has to die no matter what kill murder . Even if it's pointless and not beneficial it is Not all dark side options are like that but the majority is. Light: Some light side options are pure evil, they are worse than dark side options. all with all a light side Sith serves the empire and isn't a random maniac with out a brain. They do have some goody good options but a neutral player could work around that. I am playing dark side and up to now I regret it, it's always the same thing. Think of the most idiotic way to be evil and voila it happens. I do not see at as "stupid evil", but rather "cliché evil". This is what "evil people" are suppose to do; just watch any spy/action thriller. It gets old and tiresome, because it is predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHauntingBard Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I do not see at as "stupid evil", but rather "cliché evil". This is what "evil people" are suppose to do; just watch any spy/action thriller. It gets old and tiresome, because it is predictable. I will avoid spoilers but quite some options are beyond stupid, it isn't even cliché . A lot of actions have no reason, you don't help your self you don't help the empire you just do it because well you're evil? I would even take the argument' because it's fun' but than make a character than shows that he/she likes total anarchy. But this is not the case either, it's just being evil for the sake of being evil. Doing random stupid evil actions because hey it's evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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