Gear in 5.10 -- Stop going back to square one!

[Totemdancer]

I have never gotten a single piece of 248 gear in a crate in the history of my playing the game

 

Neither have I

[Totemdancer]

Because PvPers are already enjoying the game without this new content. For most of them, other players in the warzones ARE their content.

 

As a matter of fact, based on the players I personally knew that did a lot of PvP, gear was not valued as a reward for PvP. One obtained gear simply to level the playing field, at which point it became about skill. Getting the gear in PvP was the beginning, not the end.

 

This is exactly right. We would pvp regardless because we like pvp. The problem with all this grind or gear discrepancy is it makes pvp less fun. If anything, changing the gear system from 4.0 has made less pvpers play and made them leave.

Now it’s hard enough gearing if all you do is pvp on lots of characters and and don’t get many good drops from CXP.

I pvp for fun. I like to switch classes if I’m bored or I’m not feeling like playing a particular class that day. For me, that is changing content. But when I do, I often have to take a gear hit because I still haven’t got all my characters to 242-248, even with using legacy gear. It makes playing pvp less fun.

Actually since 5.0 was released, pvp has consistently got less fun for me. The gear was the first problem and horrendous grind, the low Bolster, then the bad class balance and nerfs, the constant increase in desync (to the point that all Hutt Ball maps are a joke) and now they are talking about another horrendous grind for pvpers.

I play for fun, not to go to another job. I used to play 50-60 hours of pvp a week, now I play less than 20. All of my pvp friends have bailed in the last 2 years. These were people who loved the game as much as me and we pvped all the time. They left due to all those reasons I listed, I’m the only one left out of 60 people.

Bioware added the grind to make people play longer and stay subbed longer. But all it did was make pvpers play less or leave. Now they are about to embark on another gear grind that will be worse for pvpers than 5.0. What do you think the result of that will be?

History has already proved that it doesn’t work for pvpers and they will leave or reduce their play time. People will leave because of this, it’s inevitable. Actually some long term pvpers have already thrown up their hands and said enough and quit the game because of this announcement. I guess they’ve just had enough and finally found their breaking point.

I won’t be quitting yet. I still hope Bioware will read all of this feedback from pvpers and change course or adjust how they are going to implement this gearing. But if it’s released and it’s a massive grind and we have bit gear gaps or operations people coming into pvp and dominating us because they have a massive gear advantage, that will be it for me after subscribing non stop for 7 years.

Bioware never learn from their mistakes, they just double down. It’s why this game is in the sorry state it’s in now.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

+1 to all of the above

 

This is not new or revolutionary in any way except being able to craft set bonuses.

 

There are CERTAINLY not any "new developers" and I laughed out loud that you would even think that.

 

They are not removing the old system of gearing, and in fact Tier 5 gear will also be dropping in Command Crates at rank 300.

 

The majority of the tokens you will earn to buy this gear straight from the vendor will be coming from the new content that they are working hard to develop. This is actually going back to systems that have been in play in the game before, and including Galactic Command alongside them, but keeping that as a less effective alternate way to gear, which is good because RNG gearing is bad on it's own, but alright as a supplement.

 

Bioware has done lots of boneheaded things and deserves criticism for much of the way they have handled the game, so this post is in no way white-knighting for them. It is instead me disagreeing with your post that this gearing system is going "back to square one". I don't see a single way in which that phrase applies to what they have announced.

 

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Just a clarification heads up. The 252 gear can be a drop from command crates at CL 300, 258 [The new BIS] will not be obtainable from command crates. No 4 leaf clovers for 258.

[Khevar]

You have described how some PvP players might feel, but that isn't what I asked you. I asked you why you called me "silly" for suggesting that the developers aren't very happy to see people skipping content that they worked on but still having access to the gear that was part of that development cycle.

You keep bringing up this point that "the developers worked so hard on this content, why would they let people skip it?"

 

But realize that the developers add content in this game all the time that is designed to appeal to niche audiences.

 

Exhibit A: "NM Gods of the Machine", which is arguably going to be (assuming one can complete it) the fastest way to get the latest tier of gear being added with 5.10.

 

Tell me, how many players are going to participate in this content? And how many people are going to skip it?

Edited October 14, 2018 by Khevar

[Andryah]

One of the reasons I left was because I started to realize that I had all of this gear that I had been working toward and nothing to do with any of it. None of the content requires it, and when they took away the only motivation I had to repeat the content in the game (by changing conquest so drastically), there was nothing left for me there.

 

^^ Which tends to be a problem for players that feel they have to chase gear just because said gear is in game.

 

There is absolutely no need for BiS gear (EVER) for most players... and even when there is (there are certainly valid cases where it is needed) it's certainly not needed for all characters on an account.

 

See.. this is the trap that MMOs do ----> they put gear grinds in.. because players often will covet the best of the best itemizations inside the game... just because. Not because of objective need, but rather because they fall for the age old hamster wheel that is gear grind in MMOs.

 

The thing is... 5.0 content never really required the best of the best gear, largely because the state of crafting in 5.0 was really good and players could easily get within a few percentage points of BiS fairly easily if they had any cooperative participation with fellow players (be it a group of friends, or guild mates) to gear through crafting. YET.... so many players insisted their only pathway in 5.0 was grind for Cxp... and with the state of GC when it first released... that was a doomed path of effort for most players.

 

All that stated, it appears that at least for this new tier 5 gear release... the studio has properly considered that players want and need multiple pathways to obtain the gear... and the studio appears to be addressing this (though certainly not to everyones satisfaction.. because some people want instant gear, or near to it). Even so.. I am not at all convinced any of this tier 5 gear will actually be required in game. PvPers will make the case that it is mandatory for them in Ranked play... but until we see the effective stat and power curves

[Andryah]

You keep bringing up this point that "the developers worked so hard on this content, why would they let people skip it?"

 

But realize that the developers add content in this game all the time that is designed to appeal to niche audiences.

 

Exhibit A: "NM Gods of the Machine", which is arguably going to be (assuming one can complete it) the fastest way to get the latest tier of gear being added with 5.10.

 

Tell me, how many players are going to participate in this content? And how many people are going to skip it?

 

^^ /Endorsed.

[Andryah]

This is exactly right. We would pvp regardless because we like pvp. The problem with all this grind or gear discrepancy is it makes pvp less fun.

 

Which means the only reasonable solution would be to take gear completely out of the equation for PvP. A move I support by the way.. because this is simply not a PvP centric MMO... so just give those that love PvP for PvP sake a simply gear independent pathway in.

 

Yet some PvPers DO play for and want a gear grind because they perceive that as a "cost to admission" gate to better PvP. I don't know what percentage of PvPers this applies to for sure... but it is a common theme of complaint/demand from some PvPers that I have seen for many years across different MMOs. I saw it to be particularly bad back in the day in Rift.

 

Some even think such a grind tends to keep the noobs out of competitive PvP (though there is little evidence to support this, based on complaints about noobs entering PvP way under geared). A gear check gate is the only real way to control this common complaint about PvPers who are severely under geared. But such a gate would then also probably require more tiering in PvP queuing so that players could actually have a defined pathway to progress in gear and in turn pass gear checks for more competitive PvP.

 

Collectively... PvPers are a group of numerous different wants and needs, even just within PvP... so there is literally no way for any studio to make all PvPers happy. [the same is essentially true for PvE players too.. so please nobody try to turn my comment into a pejorative about PvPers vs PvEers.] So it's more about appealing to the broadest range of different players possible ... while staying true to the spirit of what the MMO is (which in this case is a more casual MMO, with more difficult content or play available to those that want more challenge). Not all MMOs are alike in their approach to PvP and frankly... not all MMOs are suitable for all PvPers... because of the differences in wants/needs that exist within any MMOs PvP community.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Andryah

[Kiesu]

Because PvPers are already enjoying the game without this new content. For most of them, other players in the warzones ARE their content.

 

As a matter of fact, based on the players I personally knew that did a lot of PvP, gear was not valued as a reward for PvP. One obtained gear simply to level the playing field, at which point it became about skill. Getting the gear in PvP was the beginning, not the end.

Absolutely. I'd keep quing for pvp naked if I could (some times I do accidentally, and immediately get farmed). It's a slog to keep sending or banking gear from alt to alt anyway every time you wanna swap toons for pvp. I would pvp MORE if I wouldn't have to worry about getting augments and set bonuses for every class. I don't play certain classes exactly because I don't have the optimal gear. Sometimes I accidentally pull and put Mara gear on my Jugg and go pvp, the difference in performance on just missing set bonus and different stat priorities in set is noticeable.

Same goes for right class alts who just don't have very good left-sides yet.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Kiesu