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Gear in 5.10 -- Stop going back to square one!


sharpenedstick

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I don't know if it's new devs looking to put "their stamp" on the game, or just pure indecisiveness, but please stop trying to revolutionize the gearing system with every big content release.

 

While the RNG was a lousy system when it was first released, now you have something that works pretty well. Between command crates, tokens and Operations drops, there are multiple avenues for gearing that caters to multiple playstyles. It took quite a while, but we finally have options for everyone.

 

Now, if you want to add crafting into the mix, so they can also produce 252 gear, I think that'd be great. It's another gearing pathway. But don't blow up the existing system, just add crafting schematics as another option.

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what?

 

Some players simply do not cope well with change.... unless said change was their idea to begin with. :)

 

I would not call it going back to square one (that is pure hyperbole) ... because the new gear is basically same as the old gear with some nominal adjustments up on stats. Set bonus will be exactly the same... so other then a couple percentage point bump in primary and secondary stats... this gear is nothing to write home about, so in my view.. this is just a clever introduction of yet another hamster wheel for obsessive players to grind away on.

 

The new innovation here being.... this is the first time that I recall them allowing crafters to make gear with set bonus included on it. They also are providing the gear multiple ways, including a pace throttled trade-in of UCs for MWS (which by the way are also earnable in game from dailies) that can be used on a vendor to buy the gear outright. They basically appear to be putting in multiple pathways to the gear, so there is some pathway for everyone.. including the player that only PvPs.

 

But of course the usual player reactions follow along the lines of fire first.... without the usual ready then aim first.

Edited by Andryah
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But of course the usual player reactions follow along the lines of fire first.... without the usual ready then aim first.

 

And the usual white knight response is to go crazy at any perceived slight to their dev gods.

 

Adding in crafting is a good idea, which I said. There's just no reason to sideline all the existing gearing pathways that currently exist, and that actually work.

 

But, you know, since a rational discussion isn't possible with fanbois, I don't expect you to have actually read my post.

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And the usual white knight response is to go crazy at any perceived slight to their dev gods.

 

Adding in crafting is a good idea, which I said. There's just no reason to sideline all the existing gearing pathways that currently exist, and that actually work.

 

But, you know, since a rational discussion isn't possible with fanbois, I don't expect you to have actually read my post.

 

How is it sidelining the old gear (248). Last time I checked you could still wear it if you wanted to. That has always been the case when they added new tiers of gear. So I don't see it sidelining the gear, just adding some new tiers, just like they did with the augments.

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Adding in crafting is a good idea, which I said. There's just no reason to sideline all the existing gearing pathways that currently exist, and that actually work.

 

But, you know, since a rational discussion isn't possible with fanbois, I don't expect you to have actually read my post.

 

  • What's so great about this current gearing system?
  • In what ways will you not be able to continue doing it that way?
  • Did you watch the stream or read Dulfy's notes?
  • Did you play this game before Galactic Command RNG?

 

The new gearing in 5.10 is not revolutionary. Remember 190 ears and implants on Ziost?

 

 

"everyone who disagrees with me is a white knight"

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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And the usual white knight response is to go crazy at any perceived slight to their dev gods.

 

Adding in crafting is a good idea, which I said. There's just no reason to sideline all the existing gearing pathways that currently exist, and that actually work.

 

But, you know, since a rational discussion isn't possible with fanbois, I don't expect you to have actually read my post.

 

Your sticks and stones attempt is wasted on me.

 

On topic....they did not sideline all prior gear. Stop the hyperbole.

 

What they actually did is offer a new set of gear here, with a small boost in stats (their words) for players that like to chase gear. There is no content that actually requires it (again.. their words) over the current 248s so it really is player optional.

 

Sure.. some PvPers seem to feel they absolutely must have it in order to compete (though I question the validity of this statement given all the variables that can impact any particular PvP battle... including weapon damage variations and gear defense variations in a given combat cycle that is determined by an RNG roll by the game). But you know what.. PvPers who have been hoarding large stacks of UCs... can actually convert them to a new shard currency to buy the gear from a vendor... and the studio has rightly throttled the conversion so that PvPers cannot be fully geared in the first hours after the patch goes live. That approach keeps the playing field level for PvPers.

 

All PvPers can continue to accumulate UCs to use for the new gear through a MWS conversion and a vendor. And every player can accumulate MWS by doing dailies if they choose to... and then hit the vendor. And it will take some time before crafted gear is plentiful and competitively priced on the GTNs too.

 

It's really not that bad an approach.. except for people who cannot cope with change. And it is much different then the first reveal a while back... when they made it sound like you could only get this gear from crafting.

Edited by Andryah
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  • What's so great about this current gearing system?
  • In what ways will you not be able to continue doing it that way?
  • Did you watch the stream or read Dulfy's notes?
  • Did you play this game before Galactic Command RNG?

 

The new gearing in 5.10 is not revolutionary. Remember 190 ears and implants on Ziost?

 

 

"everyone who disagrees with me is a white knight"

 

+1 to all of the above

 

This is not new or revolutionary in any way except being able to craft set bonuses.

 

There are CERTAINLY not any "new developers" and I laughed out loud that you would even think that.

 

They are not removing the old system of gearing, and in fact Tier 5 gear will also be dropping in Command Crates at rank 300.

 

The majority of the tokens you will earn to buy this gear straight from the vendor will be coming from the new content that they are working hard to develop. This is actually going back to systems that have been in play in the game before, and including Galactic Command alongside them, but keeping that as a less effective alternate way to gear, which is good because RNG gearing is bad on it's own, but alright as a supplement.

 

Bioware has done lots of boneheaded things and deserves criticism for much of the way they have handled the game, so this post is in no way white-knighting for them. It is instead me disagreeing with your post that this gearing system is going "back to square one". I don't see a single way in which that phrase applies to what they have announced.

 

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+1 to all of the above

 

This is not new or revolutionary in any way except being able to craft set bonuses.

 

There are CERTAINLY not any "new developers" and I laughed out loud that you would even think that.

 

They are not removing the old system of gearing, and in fact Tier 5 gear will also be dropping in Command Crates at rank 300.

 

The majority of the tokens you will earn to buy this gear straight from the vendor will be coming from the new content that they are working hard to develop. This is actually going back to systems that have been in play in the game before, and including Galactic Command alongside them, but keeping that as a less effective alternate way to gear, which is good because RNG gearing is bad on it's own, but alright as a supplement.

 

Bioware has done lots of boneheaded things and deserves criticism for much of the way they have handled the game, so this post is in no way white-knighting for them. It is instead me disagreeing with your post that this gearing system is going "back to square one". I don't see a single way in which that phrase applies to what they have announced.

 

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^^ Very well stated.

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They are not removing the old system of gearing, and in fact Tier 5 gear will also be dropping in Command Crates at rank 300..

 

The powerpoint on the stream specifically said 252 will be in command crates. Presumably since they purposefully left it off that means 258 will NOT be in command crates. That is very much a change from now.

 

The new innovation here being.... this is the first time that I recall them allowing crafters to make gear with set bonus included on it. They also are providing the gear multiple ways, including a pace throttled trade-in of UCs for MWS (which by the way are also earnable in game from dailies) that can be used on a vendor to buy the gear outright. They basically appear to be putting in multiple pathways to the gear, so there is some pathway for everyone.. including the player that only PvPs.

 

But of course the usual player reactions follow along the lines of fire first.... without the usual ready then aim first.

 

There is not a pathway for a player that only PvPs except to buy with credits. Even if you're buying shards with UC you have to do the rep grind to purchase the pieces. That means doing PvE. Also when the devs straight up say you have to spend a 'ludicrous' amount of UC to gear up, that really sounds like they're purposefully making PvP one of the least viable paths to get gear. Not every PvPer hoards UC, a lot of people spend it to gear up alts.

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The powerpoint on the stream specifically said 252 will be in command crates. Presumably since they purposefully left it off that means 258 will NOT be in command crates. That is very much a change from now.

 

I think that's a safe assumption, but I have never gotten a single piece of 248 gear in a crate in the history of my playing the game, and I played all aspects except GSF and opened tens of thousands of crates over the 14 characters I have at Rank 300. I do think that if they do not allow you to upgrade 252 gear with UCs via the vendor like we are able to now then you have a point here. If there is a method to do that however, it won't be much different at all and will rely on your luck with RNG.

 

There is not a pathway for a player that only PvPs except to buy with credits. Even if you're buying shards with UC you have to do the rep grind to purchase the pieces. That means doing PvE. Also when the devs straight up say you have to spend a 'ludicrous' amount of UC to gear up, that really sounds like they're purposefully making PvP one of the least viable paths to get gear. Not every PvPer hoards UC, a lot of people spend it to gear up alts.

 

Except there is... they mentioned that Mastershards would be dropping in Command Crates as well as the other sources. It won't stop the reputation grind required to use those Mastershards, but as I have stated elsewhere - it is no surprise to me at all that the developers do not want to see people running around in BiS gear having skipped 80% of the content they just spent the last 6 months developing. They don't want you to only PvP and ignore Ossus... and that's totally logical coming from their point of view. Doing some story line quests on the new planet to get your reputation up for a week or two seems reasonable enough to me... in exchange for access to the BiS gear in the patch.

 

Edited to add: Also, I think it likely will be very expensive to just use UCs to gear right out of the gate, but that is also intentional. It would be completely unfair to allow those who only PvP and do have stacks of thousands of UCs to be head to toe BiS on day one of the patch, but expect crafters and PvE players to grind away at getting access to the new gear. So once again, this makes total sense to me from the developer's standpoint. Rather than seeming unfair, it seems to me to be an attempt at providing more balance in terms of access to this brand new gear that they don't want to easily hand out... or else what was the point?

 

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Edited by PennyAnn
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I really don't like the focus on gearing and levels that most MMOs induce upon their player base, but it could be worse in regard to SWTOR. I do appreciate the fact that they are giving us multiple avenues to acquire this gear. As a suggestion to them, a gear reset every expansion is fine. Still not my cup of tea, but I'll live. But after almost every content patch, that's too much. I know WoW is doing that now (if they haven't before) but SWTOR shouldn't follow suit. I'll tolerate it for now, so long as they give us multiple avenues to acquire this gear, but it's still a pain in the backside (and seemingly pointless), especially since the gear they give us doesn't give us the most optimal stat accumulation for our specs, so we then have to acquire even more gear just to switch out Enhancements and whatnot. It's not a fun part of the game. I play SWTOR because it's fun and not a second job. That's why I prefer it over others.

 

I suspect that there reason for this is that it's a cheap form of content with little to no effort on their part. But it is frustrating the player base, and the whole emphasis on gearing and hardcore raiding is exactly what burns me out and turns me away from almost every other MMO out there. Stop being cliche, SWTOR; I believe in you!

 

I just hope something good comes out of it. I just hope it brings in more players if they continue down this road. And if it does make people happy, that's fine. Maybe it's just me after all. I'll bite the bullet for this game's health, though I don't personally believe this is helping at all.

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More to the point, stop trying to reinvent the wheel. If you are going to change the gearing system again, just go back to how it was in 4.0. It was nearly perfect, especially for pvpers.

Couldn't agree more.

Since upping bolster to make gear meaningless for pvp seems to be mission impossible for BW, and gear grind too important for their "progression", just give us PVP gear back then and let everyone gear however way they want to.

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Couldn't agree more.

Since upping bolster to make gear meaningless for pvp seems to be mission impossible for BW, and gear grind too important for their "progression", just give us PVP gear back then and let everyone gear however way they want to.

 

Exactly. If grind is so important to them to make people play longer, make people grind 2 sets and be done with it.

This makes sense when you consider different stats have different affects in pvp vs pve, like trading accuracy for other secondary stats.

People who are serious about their pvp and pve performance should always have two of some pieces of armor.

It would also allow Bioware to adjust some of the class balance issues around gear and not nerfing or over buffing class specs at the detriment of pvp or pve. Usually when they nerf or buff for one sort of play content, they mess it up for the other.

Edited by Totemdancer
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- it is no surprise to me at all that the developers do not want to see people running around in BiS gear having skipped 80% of the content they just spent the last 6 months developing.

I firmly disagree with your viewpoint on this.

 

While many other players got bored with the lack of new content and moved on to other games, THESE players found something they enjoy about the game even without new PvE content.

 

Sure, this upcoming new PvE stuff is there if they feel like taking advantage of it, but the idea that the developers "don't want them to skip over it" is just silly.

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I firmly disagree with your viewpoint on this.

 

While many other players got bored with the lack of new content and moved on to other games, THESE players found something they enjoy about the game even without new PvE content.

 

Sure, this upcoming new PvE stuff is there if they feel like taking advantage of it, but the idea that the developers "don't want them to skip over it" is just silly.

 

So you are suggesting that they are okay with people skipping the new content entirely but getting the rewards (new gear tier) that is associated with it? How is that silly to assume?

 

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I think that's a safe assumption, but I have never gotten a single piece of 248 gear in a crate in the history of my playing the game, and I played all aspects except GSF and opened tens of thousands of crates over the 14 characters I have at Rank 300.

 

.

 

Wow I've got to say if thats true.... you've got to have the worse luck ever... and I mean ever ever :eek:

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If you are going to change the gearing system again, just go back to how it was in 4.0. It was nearly perfect, especially for pvpers.

 

This I totally agree.. Fingers crossed for 6.0.

 

I actually miss the 4.0 HM-of-the-day, and expertise. I never thought I'd say bring back expertise. lol we all used to complain so much about it.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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More to the point, stop trying to reinvent the wheel. If you are going to change the gearing system again, just go back to how it was in 4.0. It was nearly perfect, especially for pvpers.

 

1000% this. Give us back expertise, then you can introduce a new tier of gear every other week if you think there's not enough grind in the game, and I couldn't care less.

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PennyAnn;9655964]I think that's a safe assumption, but I have never gotten a single piece of 248 gear in a crate in the history of my playing the game, and I played all aspects except GSF and opened tens of thousands of crates over the 14 characters I have at Rank 300. I do think that if they do not allow you to upgrade 252 gear with UCs via the vendor like we are able to now then you have a point here. If there is a method to do that however, it won't be much different at all and will rely on your luck with RNG.

 

 

 

You have some bad luck. I have gotten enough too upgrade 2 main characters with a complete set of 248 and sent the repeats over to my mirror alts (minus earpiece, relics and implants and with those I used the USC) and now working on another one and she is halfway there while doing things I like (story, heroics and some fp)

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So you are suggesting that they are okay with people skipping the new content entirely but getting the rewards (new gear tier) that is associated with it? How is that silly to assume?

Because PvPers are already enjoying the game without this new content. For most of them, other players in the warzones ARE their content.

 

As a matter of fact, based on the players I personally knew that did a lot of PvP, gear was not valued as a reward for PvP. One obtained gear simply to level the playing field, at which point it became about skill. Getting the gear in PvP was the beginning, not the end.

Edited by Khevar
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You have some bad luck. I have gotten enough too upgrade 2 main characters with a complete set of 248 and sent the repeats over to my mirror alts (minus earpiece, relics and implants and with those I used the USC) and now working on another one and she is halfway there while doing things I like (story, heroics and some fp)

 

I have 3 characters in full 248 and a couple others that were close when I quit playing the game. I just didn't get any of it from crates. I played a lot though, so had plenty of UCs to upgrade, did a lot of operations so I had tokens to turn in/upgrade. It really wasn't a big deal. It was still (even with my unfortunate luck) the easiest gearing system in the history of the game to date... so long as I actually played the game a lot and played all parts of it.

 

One of the reasons I left was because I started to realize that I had all of this gear that I had been working toward and nothing to do with any of it. None of the content requires it, and when they took away the only motivation I had to repeat the content in the game (by changing conquest so drastically), there was nothing left for me there.

 

But honestly, it was never a huge deal that RNG didn't work in my favor. It was just one of those things.

 

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Edited by PennyAnn
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Because PvPers are already enjoying the game without this new content. For most of them, other players in the warzones ARE their content.

 

As a matter of fact, based on the players I personally knew that did a lot of PvP, gear was not valued as a reward for PvP. One obtained gear simply to level the playing field, at which point it became about skill. Getting the gear in PvP was the beginning, not the end.

 

One pass of the PvP forums disagrees with most of this, especially the uproar about PvP players and gear. Either way though, this does not at all explain why you think the developers would be happy to see people skip brand new content that they worked to provide the entire player base but have access to the gear without having to do anything that the others who play the game and don't PvP have to go through to get it. There are plenty of PvP players that do not only play PvP as well. They enjoy the story lines, the IP, and portions of the PvE part of the game, being part of a guild, doing conquest, etc.

 

You have described how some PvP players might feel, but that isn't what I asked you. I asked you why you called me "silly" for suggesting that the developers aren't very happy to see people skipping content that they worked on but still having access to the gear that was part of that development cycle. See, I don't think that's a silly assumption at all, thus it does not surprise me that the developers would make it so that you have to at least participate a little bit in some of the new content to have access to the gear that is part of all of it.

 

I think it's true that for some people, gear is just a stepping stone that they have to step over to get where they are going (which for you and others, is back into a PvP match without having to worry about others having a gear advantage over you). But that doesn't negate what I said, either because I don't think you speak for all PvP players in the entire game when you say they don't care about getting new content and I certainly don't think you speak for the developers when you say they'd be fine with people skipping the content they produce and just having straight up access to the gear that is provided along with it. I don't speak for them either, mind you... but I just stated that this feeling from them would not surprise me in the slightest. It is how I would feel in their shoes, and is a fairly rational assumption to make about why they would require people to actually play the new content to get the gear, even if they "only PvP".

 

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