mishin_max Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Analyzing the s-9 leaderboard, I noticed that more than 1000 players were banned. It's no secret that the ban system is not perfect, and I am sure that most of the banned players do not even know what wintrade is. Dear developers! Could you give an explanation on this issue? I would like to get a clear definition of wintrade and its signs. In addition, I would like to know by what criteria you track the wintraders. This is necessary to protect me and my guild mates. I mean, is it safe for me to use several accounts on one computer, or several computers for one account, use VPN or proxy to improve ping, use previously used nicknames, etc. You have to understand that real wintraders already know all this, so there is an injustice towards ordinary pvp players. It’s not funny when the most famous win-trader in a game is never banned, and he’s not even embarrassed to use the word WINTRADER in his name, and innocent players get under the hammer of bans. Please post a yellow answer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mournblood Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) I think the answer to your question is fairly obvious to anyone with any common sense. Win trading is when you pre-arrange match outcomes with another team, typically against a throw away team, in order to unfairly and artificially inflate Ranked rating. However, the bans weren't just for win trading. They included, but were certainly not limited to, queue manipulation, outright cheating/hacking, and other exploitive behavior such as terrain exploiting. Given the amount of time they spend auditing leaderboards at the end of the season, I'm fairly confident that ALL of the players who were banned deserved it. Anyone protesting their innocence is full of male cow excrement, and if they truly weren't complicit, there is an appeal process. What I don't know is if they include queue dodging/synching (which is the practice of adding specific players to your friends list so that you know when they are playing Ranked either to get matches against them because you know your comp can beat theirs, or to avoid them because their comp can beat yours), which nearly everyone does at one point or another during the season. If you think something you're doing might be questionable, it probably is. You queue up with your team, you play the match. Win or lose, that's all you're intended to do. Anything else outside of those parameters that a normal, average player wouldn't do, is something I'd avoid. And if you have to ask about it, then you likely shouldn't be doing it. Edited October 10, 2018 by Mournblood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 I am not a Dev, but surely can give you some of the answers (as I see it). Wintrading means when you play a ranked warzone and 1 or more persons on the other team intentionally lets you win so that you gain rating. This is unfair since all participants should be playing at their best in the match. If you and your guild mates que at a time of the day when there is noone in que it will seems odd to the Devs. However, they are able to judge, based on the match statistics, whether the players actually "played well", used defensive cooldowns, kited, did damage etc. However, this is extremely hard and time consuming. That is why Eric mentioned this being done on weekly basis now, so that there isnt so much data to go through at the end of season. You can use more accounts on your computer, if you mean swapping from one account to another, if those accounts are yours or lets say if your brother has a different account but uses your computer, then you sister etc. If you mean running more accounts at the same time then NO, you cannot do that, only in case when you control one account at a time. However, there is a mechanism, which will automatically bann your accounts if more have been launched at the same time from one IP address (computer) and you will have to call support to explain those actions. You can use more computers for one account, but might get a bann for suspicious activity, since the system will think someone hacked your account. You will need to call support to clear this up. Its best not to use VPN for the reasons mentioned above, but once you contact support they can leave an note to your account that you for example travel between countries and swap IPs so the system doesn't think you are being hacked. ordinary pvp players This is a very broad term, you already mentioned that you are afraid for guild mates. Why? What have you been doing? As I said, by quing at silly times when no one plays with 7 other guild members you are not exactly ordinary pvp players. If you mean that there is 4 or more of you in solo ranked que and you are on voice chat, then when you enter the same warzone you have the advantage over the other team. Or even if you are split on both sides of the team and one team performs badly then it is indeed suspicious. Such things are also evaluated, guild names, you can see many good players without a guild, that is to avoid suspicion. Many wintraders and throwers have guileless toons so that they are hard to trace, often its wintrading of tanks and healers as those are easiest to sync que. due to cross faction ques. Now you have the rating reset and people already seem to use it to gain a high initial rating, like you see some of the top toons with 10-16 wins and ratings over 1500-1600. That is what wintrading is, you que with friends when there are less people in que and he gets his first 10 matches as 10 wins. That gets him high rating and he is done. Solo ranked is really cancer since there are many problems like low geared players, low skill players, throwers, wintraders, sync quers, que decliners and so on. This is why gaining rating is very hard as you can really get several matches where someone declines the que and you are 3v4, which you cant win (well sometimes you can) and much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishin_max Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 Thanks for the wintrade master class, but this is just your personal opinion. I need a definition of the term from the developers, preferably with reference to the clause of the user agreement. Players can talk endlessly about this, but they never find out the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 In addition, I would like to know by what criteria you track the wintraders. This is necessary to protect me and my guild mates. There is zero chance that they will tell you this, as knowing how this stuff is tracked would enable a would-be wintrader to evade the detection. I could theorise about some statistical methods they could use, but I won't because that would help potential wintraders. As explained: wintrading is where two groups of players agree "We win this match, you win the next one" (the exchange is the "trade" part, while the "win" part should be obvious). Using multiple accounts (one at a time) on one computer is (obviously) allowed. It's obvious because e.g. in the evening one person logs on to the computer on his computer-login and plays his account, and in the daytime the other person logs on to the computer on *his* computer-login and plays his account. Wintrading doesn't require the traders to share a computer between accounts, and there are plenty of other reasons to do such sharing. Using one account on different computers (but only on one at any one time) is (obviously) allowed. It's obvious because prohibiting it would make it so that I could never *replace* my computer without breaking the ToS. Wintrading doesn't require this, and is, in fact, not even vaguely aided by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Maybe this can help you. These are players who manipulate Ranked matchmaking to play with and against specific players in an effort coordinate winning and losing, allowing them to boost a specific characters ratings. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9633573#post9633573 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) I am sure that most of the banned players do not even know what wintrade is. Dear developers! I am quite sure everyone of them knows exactly what "wintrading" is. Hard to believe you do not. In addition, I would like to know by what criteria you track the wintraders. They should not tell people what signs they see that indicate people are wintrading, why would they do this? So people can find ways to avoid those signs? This is like Law Enforcement telling criminals how they catch them, they don't explain in detail to the general public all their methods of catching the criminals because if they did, criminals would use this knowledge to avoid detection. What is "wintrading?" (My unofficial definition) Wintrading is any coordination between players in ranked that enables one to deliberately win, it's organized by the players to cheat the system so rating is given to a targeted player. You don't need to know more than that imo, and neither do I. Common sense can be used to understand what it is. No one is cheating accidentally. Even a 5 year old understands when entering a contest it's against the rules if you don't face the opponent and try to win your match and instead lose purposefully. Losing to the other team to help a specific person or team is wrong, causing your team a loss to help the other team or a specific player on that team is wrong. This isn't hard to understand. EDIT: Kodrac just gave the *official* definition of wintrading by Eric Musco. Feel free to peruse his post and the link provided in his post. Edited October 10, 2018 by Lhancelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Analyzing the s-9 leaderboard, I noticed that more than 1000 players were banned. It's no secret that the ban system is not perfect, and I am sure that most of the banned players do not even know what wintrade is. Dear developers! Could you give an explanation on this issue? I would like to get a clear definition of wintrade and its signs. In addition, I would like to know by what criteria you track the wintraders. This is necessary to protect me and my guild mates. I mean, is it safe for me to use several accounts on one computer, or several computers for one account, use VPN or proxy to improve ping, use previously used nicknames, etc. You have to understand that real wintraders already know all this, so there is an injustice towards ordinary pvp players. It’s not funny when the most famous win-trader in a game is never banned, and he’s not even embarrassed to use the word WINTRADER in his name, and innocent players get under the hammer of bans. Please post a yellow answer here. 1/10 troll Ranked PvP'ers know what wintrading is I guarantee you those penalized for wintrading were guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screaming_Ziva Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 What I don't know is if they include queue dodging/synching (which is the practice of adding specific players to your friends list so that you know when they are playing Ranked either to get matches against them because you know your comp can beat theirs, or to avoid them because their comp can beat yours), which nearly everyone does at one point or another during the season. Queue dodging? So you're saying they might ban you for NOT queuing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mournblood Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Queue dodging? So you're saying they might ban you for NOT queuing? No, I was trying to say that I didn't know what their official position is regarding that practice. You're essentially gaming the queue to avoid playing against teams that can beat yours. With the possible exception of mat farmers who don't care about their rating, I suspect most teams do this at one point or another during a season. There was a team in my guild last season that was doing this a lot. (None of those players are in my guild anymore.) Also, they can do other punitive action besides banning, such as resetting your rating to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Thanks for the wintrade master class, but this is just your personal opinion. I need a definition of the term from the developers, preferably with reference to the clause of the user agreement. Players can talk endlessly about this, but they never find out the truth. You will never get that answer from Devs, @kodrac did post it well, thats about as close as you get to a Dev explanation. They are the gate keepers and game masters, they can decide what is wrong and right and just hide behind any kind of clause in the ToS, its not hard for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmorrisson Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 (edited) Analyzing the s-9 leaderboard, I noticed that more than 1000 players were banned. It's no secret that the ban system is not perfect, and I am sure that most of the banned players do not even know what wintrade is.. They knew what they were doing. The bans were issued because literally years of player demand during Seasons 1 to 8. The actions were necessary but too late for Satele Shan: The Other East Coast Server (only smaller). Wintrading (along with FOTM premades for unranked) killed what was left of Harbinger-lite's pvp. Edited October 11, 2018 by jimmorrisson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend-Referral Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 BW didn't even do s9 PvP moderation right. They got merely a few backfillers from solo ranked and then actually restored some of them sometime after, and blatantly missed many others. A few innocent players were even caught in the one and only sanction wave the night before s10. I gave up on PvP and this game as a whole due to those issues, among many others, but those were the last straw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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