Why is there no kill option for Lana?

[Goreshaga]

The writers have dug themselves into a very large and very unpleasant hole with all of this, for the reasons you've mentioned. If you're attached to a character and they're gone, you often lose the desire to keep playing. The same way some people will stop watching a TV show or reading a book series when their favorite gets killed off . That favorite made it special for them and without them, there's no point in continuing to be emotionally invested.

Yep, i know that all too well, i nearly stoped reading Naruto when Neji died (considering he's the only of the young ones who died i was so pissed...) I never got the motivation toread the spin-off.

GoT is probably the best example of "never get attached to any character". Oberyn's death still hurts, even though i read it long before the show was even there.

 

But they've already kicked a lot of fans in the teeth this way. Why wish it on anyone else? That's my point. We all KNOW how much it sucks when the LIs are bricked; continuing it just makes it suck for even more players.

Problem is that people like me who already lost all the ones they liked, at best just don't care anymore, or end up really ressenting the characters they don't like who are untoutchable.

The only companion i ever campained to get a kill option on is Ashara, because :

1- I really really don't like her personnality, mainly because she just behaves like my mother at her worst

2- Her return was really bad and not giving a kill option for a class specific reunion on one of the possibly most DS character was really not taking into account the PC's personnality here, like someone who got the title of Nox for being an expert in the DS would just let her walk away like that without doing anything ?

and

3- Being a class specific AA, she was already briked for everyone anyways, so it would not have changed anything.

 

So yeah, while i'm not campaining for getting rid of Lana, i can understand why people who don't like her and already lost all the LIs they liked may be bitter about her.

 

I think we *should* continue to push for content with bricked companions, and should be vocal about how deterimental to the game it has been to lose those characters.

I really hope they'll end up giving every LI new content, even if it's just romance exclusive cutscenes and letters, that would already be better than just having at best an empty shell standing in the background or absolutely nothing when it would make sense to have that character at a precise moment.

Like Koth being nowhere during Nathema, this was just really bad.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Goreshaga

[IoNonSoEVero]

GoT is probably the best example of "never get attached to any character". Oberyn's death still hurts' date=' even though i read it long before the show was even there.[/quote']

 

I don't follow GoT more than marginally, but IIRC about a year ago the devs made a comment about wanting SWTOR to be like GoT, and that made me extremely nervous. If you're setting up a world where no character is safe it sends a message to fans that they should never get emotionally invested.

 

So yeah, while i'm not campaining for getting rid of Lana, i can understand why people who don't like her and already lost all the LIs they liked may be bitter about her.

 

You know, on a purely emotional level I get it. I actually do. But logically it's just helping the devs dig that hole even deeper.

 

I really hope they'll end up giving every LI new content, even if it's just romance exclusive cutscenes and letters, that would already be better than just having at best an empty shell standing in the background or absolutely nothing when it would make sense to have that character at a precise moment.

Like Koth being nowhere during Nathema, this was just really bad.

 

I do too. I wish they'd work on much more content with all the bricked LIs and companions. Emails, short scenes, anything. But I don't know that they will for most of them. For me, not having Koth in Nathema is the best example of how we just can't count on a bricked LI being in any additional content, even when they would be a logical addition to the story. I mean, if they couldn't be bothered finding two minutes for Koth in a story about Zakuul and the Gravestone, or even animating him into the scenes with his crew, there's not much hope that most bricked LIs will get time.

[JakRoanin]

Not an Alderaan or Taris event? I'm pretty sure if you're killing people in the millions or billions you're a ****** regardless.

 

Hey Vaylin has a bigger body count and you love her! I'm not saying Arcann was right he was wrong! It was evil malicious and nothing can ever change that. However, it is not what haters of Arcann claim it is, a Taris or Alderaan event. That is my point.

 

Back to Lana, she'd totally pull a Taris or Alderaan if she felt it got her, her goal she is a SITH. It just so happens she doesn't have a desire for Galactic Domination. But if she did, you better believe she'd do it. Quinn would too but that's another can of tuna,

[Goreshaga]

I don't follow GoT more than marginally, but IIRC about a year ago the devs made a comment about wanting SWTOR to be like GoT, and that made me extremely nervous. If you're setting up a world where no character is safe it sends a message to fans that they should never get emotionally invested.

Yeah that sounds pretty bad here. While i do love GoT, i'm not playing a SW game to get that feel. And it's not the same level of attachment either, you don't interact directly with the GoT or TWD characters the way you do with your companions in this game, and more importantly you cannot romance these characters like our characters do with their companions.

 

You know, on a purely emotional level I get it. I actually do. But logically it's just helping the devs dig that hole even deeper.

Yep that's not really right, but on the other hand people who have nothing left just don't really care anymore or are bitter, which is sad for everyone

 

I do too. I wish they'd work on much more content with all the bricked LIs and companions. Emails, short scenes, anything. But I don't know that they will for most of them. For me, not having Koth in Nathema is the best example of how we just can't count on a bricked LI being in any additional content, even when they would be a logical addition to the story. I mean, if they couldn't be bothered finding two minutes for Koth in a story about Zakuul and the Gravestone, or even animating him into the scenes with his crew, there's not much hope that most bricked LIs will get time.

Which really saddens me.

I really don't know what i'll do with with my Trooper or BH if Aric or Torian never play a part anymore, it's even worse in the case of Torian, because that choice really was forced. I chose to save Torian and sacrifice Vette though i had nothing against Vette i just chose to save the one who was romancing one of my characters while the other one was not a LI for any of my main cast. But if i had the opportunity to save them both i'd have done it.

I was in a position to kill Kaliyo only once, and i did not take it in the end, it just felt pointless though i really don't like her to begin with. Same with SCORPIO, i never liked her but when faced with that choice as i was playing on a LS character at that time, it just didn't feel right to be willing to kill someone who only wanted to be free of doing what she wanted and not be ordered around and simply used as a weapon.

I took Ashara back on my Imperius though it really cost me a lot as the player to just stay in character considering i really dislike her.

 

I've pretty much given up on Vector as he's a class specific AA, he's pretty much non existant for 7 characters out of 8, so at this point i just consider him dead, and i may move on another romance with my IA but she's the only one i may do that.

 

And clearly leaving Koth completely out of Nathema was really bad. He's alive for all my characters (except the DS SW token testing dummy i use only to see how the DS choices play out and who is stuck at the begining of Iokath as i just don't feel like seeing the DS choices anymore), he sould at least have been seen with his crew evacuating the Gravestone or we should at the very very least have gotten a mail from him commenting on the destruction of the ship, but we got absolutely nothing. I started a romance with him on a smuggler, and honnestly the romance started out pretty well, now i just deleted the character as the romance seems like it never go anywhere.

So yeah i'm really worried for all my characters now, even the one who is romancing Theron despite them saying he'll still be around if he's not dead/kicked out of the Alliance.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Yeah that sounds pretty bad here. While i do love GoT, i'm not playing a SW game to get that feel. And it's not the same level of attachment either, you don't interact directly with the GoT or TWD characters the way you do with your companions in this game, and more importantly you cannot romance these characters like our characters do with their companions.

 

Yeah, good point. There's far more personal interaction/attachment since the SWTOR characters are *your* toon's lovers.

 

Yep that's not really right, but on the other hand people who have nothing left just don't really care anymore or are bitter, which is sad for everyone

 

It is extremely sad. But I feel like if someone's reached that point, and all they want is to see it all burn or lash out at other players who did NOT write the scripts that bricked their LIs - that shouldn't be accommodated.

 

And clearly leaving Koth completely out of Nathema was really bad. He's alive for all my characters (except the DS SW token testing dummy i use only to see how the DS choices play out and who is stuck at the begining of Iokath as i just don't feel like seeing the DS choices anymore), he sould at least have been seen with his crew evacuating the Gravestone or we should at the very very least have gotten a mail from him commenting on the destruction of the ship, but we got absolutely nothing. I started a romance with him on a smuggler, and honnestly the romance started out pretty well, now i just deleted the character as the romance seems like it never go anywhere.

So yeah i'm really worried for all my characters now, even the one who is romancing Theron despite them saying he'll still be around if he's not dead/kicked out of the Alliance.

 

Same, I have one character who killed Koth to see what would happen, but he's alive and with the Alliance on everyone else. What KILLS me is that they had such a good opening for a romance scene there, too. They could have had the Commander telling Koth how worried they were when the Gravestone blew up, and how relieved they are that Koth is safe. It could have been their 'I love you' moment. Realistically if someone romanced Koth that probably would have been the very first thing they would have done upon getting back to Odessen.

 

There could have been a non-romance moment with Koth and his crew too, for a Commander to say "I know how attached you were to that ship, and I'm glad you're all safe."

 

With the others, they've really painted themselves into a corner. Anyone with a class story romance has been really neglected and it does make one wonder if it's worth continuing with that character if they're never going to get any interaction with people who matter most in their world. It's also why I react strongly to kill threads for Lana and any other characters, because there's a high probability that once they're gone, they're gone.

[aerockyul]

Hey Vaylin has a bigger body count and you love her! I'm not saying Arcann was right he was wrong! It was evil malicious and nothing can ever change that. However, it is not what haters of Arcann claim it is, a Taris or Alderaan event. That is my point.

 

Back to Lana, she'd totally pull a Taris or Alderaan if she felt it got her, her goal she is a SITH. It just so happens she doesn't have a desire for Galactic Domination. But if she did, you better believe she'd do it. Quinn would too but that's another can of tuna,

 

That's a thin argument for trying to justify hating/killing her. By that logic, almost anyone could be a nutty Sith or tyrant simply from potential. That's like saying that because I, hypothetically, live in a red state, I should be hated/killed because I have the potential to go on a gun-crazy rampage simply because all the rednecks in the state have guns, whether I do or don't as well. I should be arrested or executed for potential-by-loose-association based on what other crazy, chaotic morons actually do? Her actions don't really portray her as that type of Sith.

 

Lana is usually the angel/devil on the shoulder in most situations, but she defers to authority and she defers to you (the PC) and goes along with what you say even if she disapproves. Does she gut that knight on the platform if you tell her not to? Does she physically try to stop you from saving innocent civilians during the escape? Does she not hold you back from just charging into Vaylin like an idiot when you've just woken from carbonite, with carbonite poisoning to boot? Does she stop you from siding with Malcolm? Does she stop you when you make the choice for both of you to join either faction at the end (she's not a fan of either choice)? Does she ever actually follow through on her threat to deactivate Scorpio (would have saved us a lot of trouble if she had )? Does she kill Theron where he stands despite her red-hot tantrums in emails and conversations about not letting him get away with it? She may disapprove with a lot of these decisions but she defers to you rather than letting the kill-crazy part of being a Sith take over her sense of reason.

Those all seem like things a typical Sith wouldn't look to permission from anyone for before just chopping heads.

 

She's far more harmless than you think she is because she thinks before she acts, and she looks for permission before making drastic, irreversible decisions--not the hallmark of the average "Sith" and probably the reason Marr trusted her to take over Intelligence.

[Goreshaga]

Same, I have one character who killed Koth to see what would happen, but he's alive and with the Alliance on everyone else. What KILLS me is that they had such a good opening for a romance scene there, too. They could have had the Commander telling Koth how worried they were when the Gravestone blew up, and how relieved they are that Koth is safe. It could have been their 'I love you' moment. Realistically if someone romanced Koth that probably would have been the very first thing they would have done upon getting back to Odessen.

 

There could have been a non-romance moment with Koth and his crew too, for a Commander to say "I know how attached you were to that ship, and I'm glad you're all safe."

 

With the others, they've really painted themselves into a corner. Anyone with a class story romance has been really neglected and it does make one wonder if it's worth continuing with that character if they're never going to get any interaction with people who matter most in their world. It's also why I react strongly to kill threads for Lana and any other characters, because there's a high probability that once they're gone, they're gone.

Yeah this could've been a really good romance opportunity here.

Clearly my JK would've spend some time with Theron, but she would've taken some time to check on Koth and his crew too. Well considering Lana says there's no casualty within the Alliance, we can guess that she and our character checked on them before talking together before Theron comes in, but a short scene with Koth before that would've been nice, especially for characters romancing him, who got pretty much nothing after he got his kill option, making his romance one of the most frustratingly short lived actual romances.

 

Yeah that really sucks for the class story romances. I'm not fond of most of them, but there were at least 3 i really enjoyed, and now, well, i'm a bit lost for these characters.

 

Well same for Theron, he's the LI i really like the most, mostly because i think he fits just perfectly with my JK for whom Doc has never really been an option. I had more or less the romance going on only because i constantly picked the sassiest lines to answer his flirting which odly were mainly [flirt] options, but she has constantly rejected him, so that was pretty weird getting a proposal from him, when he never ever got any chance to even kiss her, he even comments on it. But odly enough seeing him constantly fail to impress her and constantly fail to seduce her was at the same time pretty funny and made me feel some pity for him.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Goreshaga

[IoNonSoEVero]

That's a thin argument for trying to justify hating/killing her. By that logic, almost anyone could be a nutty Sith or tyrant simply from potential.

 

(snip)

 

She's far more harmless than you think she is because she thinks before she acts, and she looks for permission before making drastic, irreversible decisions--not the hallmark of the average "Sith" and probably the reason Marr trusted her to take over Intelligence.

 

This.

 

And it's a bit rich IMHO to express moral outrage and condemn a character for what they say - but never do - while simultaneously hand-waving the actions of a character who has killed millions or billions and engaged in numerous acts of cruelty.

 

Lana can be lethal, but she usually isn't unless there's a reason she feels is justified - never once in the game do you see her hurting people for lulz, because of her own emotional maladjustment, or even for her own advancement. This is the same Sith who refuses to have a title and tells the PC she didn't want a place in the power structure.

[JakRoanin]

That's a thin argument for trying to justify hating/killing her.

 

That's not my reason for hating her at all! If it was I'd hate Anakin and Vader I don't. I've posted my reasons for my dislike of her. Told people I don't need her dead, just gone for me. Other people here have perfectly well thought out, rational reasons for disliking her and we have been accused by her fans of bigotry, stupidity, and pettiness. I've also been attacked for liking Arcann and believing his actions are somehow positive. I certainly think ALL of his actions prior to saving his mother from Vaylin are reprehensible, but because I like him somehow it invalidates my opinion of Lana and her fans magnify his crimes to things that weren't in-game at all.

 

Lana disrespects my Characters, and her attitude it proprietary of them. She's not at all loyal to them as people just there power and what it can do for her. She's irritating, hypocritical, and incompetent!

[kodrac]

That's not my reason for hating her at all! If it was I'd hate Anakin and Vader I don't. I've posted my reasons for my dislike of her. Told people I don't need her dead, just gone for me.

 

I understand you'd like her gone for you. I get that some people are just plain tired of her. However, they can't because they kept her as a story driver. Quest giver, if you will. So getting rid of her as a companion also means they have to get rid of her as a quest giver. Which means different stories, hence 5.10. Going forward with the new stories we'll have new quest givers and hopefully we'll get to use the companions we want.

Edited December 7, 2018 by kodrac

[Nefla]

Guys, just ignore Dudebro McAttentionho' paying attention to him just feeds his ego.

 

Imo, you all should just get more Lana!

>_> This displeases me.

 

That would be great if they could send Lana off to Korriban or Dromund Kaas or wherever for those who don't like her, but that would mean bifurcating the knights expansions into a "with Lana" and "without Lana" storyline and at this point it's too late. Bioware isn't going to make that change now. I also assume that if Theron is still in the next part (as apparently Charles said he is), so is Lana, given that the commander, Theron, and Lana are basically the Three Musketeers--at least until Bioware chooses to move the story into another direction, which they undoubtedly will. I really think people just need to move on from the rage. There are plenty of companions I don't like but none of them would keep me from playing. For instance, I despise Kaliyo, but I've rolled two agents and would make another one. It's just a game. I can head canon something nice to get me through the pain.

I don't think anyone is advocating for BioWare to go back and redo the existing expansions, just to be able to get rid of Lana in future content if we choose to.

 

I guess in my version of events both Lana and Theron maybe lean toward their original factions but ultimately are loyal to the commander. (For instance, Theron stuck with my imps when they took out Jace Malcolm, and Lana stuck with my pubs when Acina bit the dust.) Lana and Theron have pretty much been ostracised by their old groups so we're all they have...but once again, I don't have a problem with people not liking Lana. It's tough. But Bioware can't customise the game to make ALL of us happy at the same time. In the meantime I just don't think we should advocate trying to ruin something for a group of players because Bioware sadly decided to ruin it for another group of us (as in, Lana is still alive for everyone, Theron potentially isn't, for e.g., so let's kill Lana to make it fair). How is that fair? It's just spreading the misery. The solution is that Bioware needs to stop knocking off companions.

 

For the most part Lana lovers are just trying to hold onto what they want, same as the rest of us. Taking out our frustrations on them isn't going to bring our LIs back.

It's not that we want to hurt you or take something away from you for the sake of "fairness" because all of the characters WE liked have been taken away. It's because we feel our games and storylines are worse for having Lana in them. She's constantly thrust on us and we are annoyed by and dislike her. We don't want something annoying that we don't like constantly thrust upon us. Now that she's the only remaining companion who isn't a brick, she has a real chance of being the complete focus which would be a nightmare for those of us who hate her. The Lana and Theron Variety Hour was only tolerable to me because my love of Theron balanced out my hate of Lana. With him dead I want no part in The Lana Show.

 

Yeah, I'm with you about hating the fact that some of my LIs have been bricked off. It stinks. Totally. I think they should just stop doing that, period. Honest question: how can Lana be removed from your story, and those who hate her, without bricking her off for those who do like her? I for one don't want another LI bricked off, including the ones I hate. Bioware should have known how emotionally attached players are to their LIs. So let's stop the madness right now. (And maybe make it all a dream so the ones we love can come back from bricked off land!)

What they can do is put in some actual effort and write two versions: one with the character dead and one without. The amount of money they make off this game is way more than a single player RPG but we're supposed to expect bare bones, half-assed, nonsense in response to story choices that any decent single player RPG would at least ATTEMPT to flesh out after giving you said choice. They can do something simple like making some new character that provides the information the killed characters would have (all of them, combined if you're an edgelord that kills everyone). So for instance if you have a group scene and Theron was going to say something but you killed him then Hylo says that thing or something similar that gets the same information across. They can also greatly reduce the focus from 2 story integral companions (now down to one) to a larger supporting cast that take turns in the spotlight and may not be tied directly to the plot. They should also let us decide our relationship with any given companion and it shouldn't be assumed that they're our BFF or almost-lover. If they don't want to write in the consequences of two choices then don't write two damn choices! We've been conditioned to expect the bare minimum from BioWare at this point and to think it unreasonable to hold them to any kind of standard. They can still come back from their little killing spree and write two versions in the future and it's not unreasonable to ask for that.

 

 

Everything you say about Lana and the way you say it pretty much invalidates any criticism you're putting on me for not being in love with Doc/Arcann/whichever hetero-male you're attached to atm, you realize that, right?

The point has never been I want everyone to feel the same way, I'm saying no one has really given an actual, real reason that makes sense to kill her and a lot of other companions off that don't boil down to vindictiveness and spite for what they've done to a select few other companions. When the character hasn't actually done anything worth killing over (at least what an intelligent person would objectively not kill someone over), these weird, irrational reasons have to be contrived to somehow "convince" the writers to kill them off.

 

I don't mind your feeling that you hate her and want her gone. I have a loooong list of characters I hate and want gone forever from any part of my story (I'll bet they're mostly ones you like, sorry about that). However, I don't want Bioware to keep acting on these outbursts to inform their decisions going forward--I don't actually want your favorite characters taken away from you because some edgelord wants them dead for no reason other than "I'z big bad Sith, I'z gonna killz everything!!11!", I don't want my favorites taken away because people want to live out their abusive/homicidal tendencies/fantasies on people that did nothing to deserve it.

I don't agree AT ALL with the decisions they make when they choose to off a companion, even the ones that actually, truly deserve it, because the way they're handling it is so utterly wrong. Dead for some = dead for all. Dead for all = dead for all. Alive for some = dead for all. I guess it got too complicated to figure out how to make dead for some = alive for some. They've proven they can't really handle forks in the road as well as they used to.

 

It's sure gonna be a fun game when they're all dead for looking at us funny or not being the right sex or orientation or not being a mindless thrall. The reasons given for killing them off are about that smart and well-conceived.

I don't know if you're confusing me with someone else or just didn't read what I wrote but I have never said anyone should or shouldn't like any character (especially Doc ew, he's even worse than Lana but thankfully he's not forced on us constantly). I couldn't care less if other people dislike characters I like or vice versa. I don't want to be stuck with characters I hate, especially if they're the only one left.

 

As far as the writers killing characters, I'm 100% convinced that was for cost cutting/laziness reasons and not because people were asking for it. I don't remember seeing some giant uprising of people asking to kill Vette or Torian for example. The only exception would maybe be Koth since a lot of people seem to hate him. A ton of people have asked BioWare to not "brick" the killable characters but so far they've not really listened. It's not about what we want or ask for, it's about keeping the game as cheap as possible while milking every possible penny.

[kodrac]

Guys, just ignore Dudebro McAttentionho' paying attention to him just feeds his ego.

 

LOL I can't use catfight but dudebro is OK. Hypocrite much? Thanks for proving my point though.

Edited December 8, 2018 by kodrac

[SithKoriandr]

Actually maybe it is better that no one have anyone to romance then we wouldn't have this problem, would we. The funny thing is when I started playing the game at launch I never took the romance option. I tried one with Koth because he seem to fit my smuggler and then people threw a fit to have him killed. I understood why they wanted him killed because he didn't fit but I didn't expect that he would be removed from my story and that was the first one they did it with. While I don't believe Lana is someone for my characters, I don't want her removed from everyone's but I am not being petty as I actually have stopped doing any romances again because of the way they were handled so maybe not having romances is the better idea since the only one left is Lana so you guys go ahead and romance Lana and I go back to doing it the way I did before, not caring at all about the companions. There you go.

 

It's still based on the idea that, "I lost a companion I liked as part of my crew, so make the others suffer."

 

I can't even romance Nadia for instance, and I don't want to see her be killable.

 

Tharan isn't an LI and when he returns, I don't want to see him killed either.

 

I didn't want to see any of my crews killed. Well maybe Skadge, but that's just because I hated the way he got onto my ship in the first place.

 

However, I was never for the idea of killing LI's if it meant they're gone forever. Worst idea ever. I also like the idea of LIs. I like the idea of my character going around with her LI saving the galaxy.

[SithKoriandr]

My point is accusing Arcann of destroying planets is wrong. Senya's quote is as follows...

 

 

 

 

Horrific? Yes. War Crime? Absolutely! Justification? None! But a Taris scale event, or an Alderaan it is not! People who hate Arcann compare his actions to both and it is False. Absolutely nothing I said about Lana is false.

 

Millions killed due to bombardment...sounds like world destroying event. Even if it didn't blow it up.

[Elessara]

Millions killed due to bombardment...sounds like world destroying event. Even if it didn't blow it up.

 

I'm not exactly an Arcann supporter but I *am* nitpicky.

 

Millions = large city but most of the planetary population intact, planet still exists (ex: there are about 9 million people in New York City)

 

Billions = planetary population, planet still exists with probably some pockets of survivors (ex: there are about 8 billion people on Earth) - this btw, was a Taris type of event, however there were some survivors and if there hadn't been the rakghouls or toxic radiation that population might have grown; also plant and animal life still existed and thrived

 

World destroying = planet turned into bits and pieces, no survivors and no possibility of regrowth - this of course is an Alderaan type of event

 

What Malak did to Taris? Not world destroying. What Arcann ordered on those unnamed planets? Not world destroying.

[aerockyul]

Snip.

 

I actually agree with your conclusions. I got defensive about Doc because it sounded like he was being deliberately brought up to get a rise out of me and others who are vocal about his...aggressive banter. I’m sorry to throw that back in your face too if that wasn’t your intention.

 

One thing I don’t agree with is the hate certain companions have gotten before the kill options started that Bioware started gleefully following through on. It didn’t start with Koth but he definitely got the loudest and most immediate hate for sure. Mainly due to race and the idea that he should take the killing of innocent people in stride with a smile

Companions I can remember being hated hard in vanilla: Quinn, Skadge, Kaliyo, Jorgan. All given kill options. There must have been some rumblings about Broonmark and Xalek because you’re almost given no choice to not kill them unless you also like murdering innocents for nebulous reasons.

When KOTFE dropped the Koth hatred was almost immediate and never let up until he was killable. Theron was hated far more than Lana was and he is the first to go from that pairing.

By this time it became noticeable that if you make your hate loud enough they may actually act on it. When they largely DON’T act on it the innocuous companions that never actually warrant death probably aren’t actually hated as much as the haters so desperately hoped they would be.

Anyway, this is the fear we get to live with now thanks to mostly three characters deserving it in vanilla and one I’ve never understood but was definitely a popular hate.

[Lunafox]

 

Getting back to the topic... I think the source of this whole problem is not whether some players hate Lana or love Lana, but the fact the writers obviously seem to love Lana. Therefore she does, in fact, have a special status within the story; all players have to deal with her whether they want to or not, because she is the writers' and/or devs' Star Wars waifu. She always has to be right, she always has to be the one giving the orders, and she always has to be present in everyone's story whether they like it or not. (Please note that I do, in fact, like Lana, and I don't mean this as a slam on the character. I just find it annoying that she's pushed so heavily as a creator favorite.)

 

This clear fact--combined with how the writers were unwilling/unable to actually write branching paths in the story line (despite the repeated dev insistence that CHOICES MATTER) AND EA obviously cheaped out on paying the voice actors for 'bricked' companions for a line or two every now and again or even animating them in the background of scenes they logically should have been in--has produced the situation we're now in. People who don't like Lana resent the fact they are forced to continue dealing with a companion they don't like AND companions they DO like have disappeared from the storyline. On the other side, people who are fans of Lana feel on the defensive, because they know if a kill/dismiss/disappear/whatever option is ever introduced for Lana, the writers will again fail to create branching story paths and EA will cheap out on voice acting and character animations, and Lana will disappear from their stories even if they choose to keep/save her.

 

The fault here is not in Lana fans, Lana haters, edgelords who want the opportunity to kill all NPCs, or in any other group of players... it's the fault of EA and their employees for giving us this deeply flawed, patched together excuse for a narrative. We should stop tearing eachother down and instead direct our energies and our upset towards putting pressure on EA to stop doing this to their players. We deserve better, and we should demand better.

 

I agree with you, well said. Having a go at each other isn't doing anything except making things worse. No matter how many times each side speaks their mind, it isn't going to change the other side's mind, I'm sure of that. I know I haven't seen anything that would sway me from how I feel about Lana; but I've said my piece way back and keeping on saying it, isn't going to change much. Even though I've had my fill of this, I just wanted you to know I like the solution you offer in your final paragraph.

[aerockyul]

I agree with you, well said. Having a go at each other isn't doing anything except making things worse. No matter how many times each side speaks their mind, it isn't going to change the other side's mind, I'm sure of that. I know I haven't seen anything that would sway me from how I feel about Lana; but I've said my piece way back and keeping on saying it, isn't going to change much. Even though I've had my fill of this, I just wanted you to know I like the solution you offer in your final paragraph.

 

I don’t agree that no one would change their minds. I’ve come to enjoy or at least understand some comps I previously hated thanks to many of these threads.

Living in a bubble isn’t a great way to live; you can miss a lot you wouldn’t have thought possible that way

[SithKoriandr]

I'm not exactly an Arcann supporter but I *am* nitpicky.

 

Millions = large city but most of the planetary population intact, planet still exists (ex: there are about 9 million people in New York City)

 

Billions = planetary population, planet still exists with probably some pockets of survivors (ex: there are about 8 billion people on Earth) - this btw, was a Taris type of event, however there were some survivors and if there hadn't been the rakghouls or toxic radiation that population might have grown; also plant and animal life still existed and thrived

 

World destroying = planet turned into bits and pieces, no survivors and no possibility of regrowth - this of course is an Alderaan type of event

 

What Malak did to Taris? Not world destroying. What Arcann ordered on those unnamed planets? Not world destroying.

 

And what Lana did, not in wanting to waste time in trying to save the enemy who put them in the predicament they (her and the PC) were in, doesn't make her evil.

 

Vaylin, was willing to kill her own people, to stop the PC.

 

Lana just wasn't willing to risk losing the PC she just rescued to save the enemy, and yes, all those citizens are in fact, the enemy.

 

However, I feel in this thread it's been pretty well established...

 

Those who want to kill Lana, are wanting it because they lost theirs and they're more than willing to allow others feel the suffering they've felt. Very Sith of them. Very much not for the people but for one's self.

 

They know what is likely to happen and they don't care about the others. I hope the devs/writers don't continue to build a wall between the players and keep the remain companions alive and maybe even able to spread them around.

[Lunafox]

I don’t agree that no one would change their minds. I’ve come to enjoy or at least understand some comps I previously hated thanks to many of these threads.

Living in a bubble isn’t a great way to live; you can miss a lot you wouldn’t have thought possible that way

 

Well, that's nice to know. I'm glad. I guess I'm more stubborn that way. I wouldn't call it living in a bubble as in realizing that there are only so many times you can bash your skull against a brick wall before you realize it just hurts and wastes time.

[Elessara]

And what Lana did, not in wanting to waste time in trying to save the enemy who put them in the predicament they (her and the PC) were in, doesn't make her evil.

 

Vaylin, was willing to kill her own people, to stop the PC.

 

Lana just wasn't willing to risk losing the PC she just rescued to save the enemy, and yes, all those citizens are in fact, the enemy.

 

However, I feel in this thread it's been pretty well established...

 

Those who want to kill Lana, are wanting it because they lost theirs and they're more than willing to allow others feel the suffering they've felt. Very Sith of them. Very much not for the people but for one's self.

 

They know what is likely to happen and they don't care about the others. I hope the devs/writers don't continue to build a wall between the players and keep the remain companions alive and maybe even able to spread them around.

 

To be blunt I don't really care. I was simply nitpicking on the specific post I responded to.

[SithKoriandr]

Well, that's nice to know. I'm glad. I guess I'm more stubborn that way. I wouldn't call it living in a bubble as in realizing that there are only so many times you can bash your skull against a brick wall before you realize it just hurts and wastes time.

 

Took me my 7th Inquisitor play through to like Ashara.

 

I love Inquisitor.

[Lunafox]

Took me my 7th Inquisitor play through to like Ashara.

 

I love Inquisitor.

 

I'm glad you're having fun, I enjoy that class and the story as well. Ashara not so much lol.

[casirabit]

It's still based on the idea that, "I lost a companion I liked as part of my crew, so make the others suffer."

 

I can't even romance Nadia for instance, and I don't want to see her be killable.

 

Tharan isn't an LI and when he returns, I don't want to see him killed either.

 

I didn't want to see any of my crews killed. Well maybe Skadge, but that's just because I hated the way he got onto my ship in the first place.

 

However, I was never for the idea of killing LI's if it meant they're gone forever. Worst idea ever. I also like the idea of LIs. I like the idea of my character going around with her LI saving the galaxy.

 

No not really, I just given up with the companions as it doesn't matter anymore. People who have Lana will have her and I just will stop caring about what companions I have. I am tired of trying to explain why I don't like Lana but it doesn't matter anymore. They already pretty much killed all the ones I used to like but that's okay, you have Lana so good luck and that should make you happy.

 

Have fun and good luck.

Edited December 8, 2018 by casirabit

[Nefla]

I actually agree with your conclusions. I got defensive about Doc because it sounded like he was being deliberately brought up to get a rise out of me and others who are vocal about his...aggressive banter. I’m sorry to throw that back in your face too if that wasn’t your intention.

 

One thing I don’t agree with is the hate certain companions have gotten before the kill options started that Bioware started gleefully following through on. It didn’t start with Koth but he definitely got the loudest and most immediate hate for sure. Mainly due to race and the idea that he should take the killing of innocent people in stride with a smile

Companions I can remember being hated hard in vanilla: Quinn, Skadge, Kaliyo, Jorgan. All given kill options. There must have been some rumblings about Broonmark and Xalek because you’re almost given no choice to not kill them unless you also like murdering innocents for nebulous reasons.

When KOTFE dropped the Koth hatred was almost immediate and never let up until he was killable. Theron was hated far more than Lana was and he is the first to go from that pairing.

By this time it became noticeable that if you make your hate loud enough they may actually act on it. When they largely DON’T act on it the innocuous companions that never actually warrant death probably aren’t actually hated as much as the haters so desperately hoped they would be.

Anyway, this is the fear we get to live with now thanks to mostly three characters deserving it in vanilla and one I’ve never understood but was definitely a popular hate.

I hate Doc because he's a sleazy sexual harasser that ignores your protests to his sexual harassment throughout Balmorra and then when you finally get a chance to tell him to "turn his attention elsewhere" HE gets mad at YOU ***? Bringing up Doc and Arcann as in "what if it were these male characters sneaking into your room at night without your permission" wasn't meant as a jab or anything like that, it was to highlight a double standard. Lana's actions are accepted and even seen as endearing because she's a woman but if a man did and said the things she does he'd be a total creep and people would (rightly) flip their ****.

 

As for the rest, a few people here and there may have asked for certain character deaths like Jorgan or Kaliyo but with the exception of Quinn who had a justified reason for getting a kill option in vanilla and Koth who for some reason is really popular to hate those complaints and requests were few and far between. I stand by my statement that killing off all the companions and then making them silent bricks was first and foremost a cost cutting measure and them being able to point to some random guy that wanted said kill option is just an excuse. How many things have people been asking for for YEARS on the forums and BioWare ignores them? Fixing bugs, implementing features, adding storylines, continuing class stories, adding romance options, etc..? Those things all cost more money. Killing off everyone and having them be silent bricks? Hell that SAVES money. They're not cutting every character because someone asked them to, especially since it results in a crappier story. They're doing it to save a buck plain and simple. If they were in the business of just granting the wishes of anyone who asked for anything then we'd have a ton more awesome stuff in the game including the killable companions still being part of the story for those who didn't kill them and I'm willing to bet far more people have asked for that (and for other choices to have impact and be fleshed out as well) than have called for the deaths of any character.