What are the top dps specs for HM/NIM ops in 5.9?

[winterelegy]

I've finally gotten into a progression group and trying to figure out what the current best dps specs are. I've been running an Arsenal Merc for quite a while because it's got great utilities and survivablity, and I feel like I play it optimally, but my dps just can't hang with some of the other classes.

I've also got a nearly maxed out 248 deception sin which I play moderately well, but mostly only in pvp- is that a viable spec for hm/nim?

 

Anyway yeah what are you guys finding works most effectively in the hardest op content?

[ultimarb]

I've finally gotten into a progression group and trying to figure out what the current best dps specs are. I've been running an Arsenal Merc for quite a while because it's got great utilities and survivablity, and I feel like I play it optimally, but my dps just can't hang with some of the other classes.

I've also got a nearly maxed out 248 deception sin which I play moderately well, but mostly only in pvp- is that a viable spec for hm/nim?

 

Anyway yeah what are you guys finding works most effectively in the hardest op content?

 

I'm sorry for your "progression" group if the are not able to tell you what's current meta in hm/nim raiding.

Ok stop trolling straight answer....

 

in fact your arsenal merc is the bottom of dps ranking in 5.9 pve content. you should only prefer it above dot merc in boss encounters needing burst damage or aoe damage.

e.g. Draxus, Styrak, Tyth or doing Adds at Trasher

overall dps of io will be much higher than arsenal. since you'Re planing to do some progression at least learn io rotation. keep it as simple as it could be (there are really easy low heat rotations which are doing enough dps)

 

Deception Sin is ok for almost all content. you have nice burst on higher frequency compared to ap powertechs (top notch single target burst)

and deception sins have some nice utilities which are op in the nim endboss encounters of tfb and s&v. (dodge slam & electric bindings)

 

Most fotm setups for raiding aims to get a group around pt's, snipers & maras, since those as dps.

Those classes offers high dps specs including some of the best group utilities for raiding. (sonic rebounder, sniper shield, predation and bloodthirst for example, aoe dr on all three classes)

 

All other classes will fit around those setups. Arsenal can be in fact a burden to a raiding crew with lower overall dps.

 

 

 

so my personal ranking (please consider that you can clear all pve content with any specs)

 

Best

• Annihilation Mara +( High DPS Dot Spec, great at AOE, All benefits of Maras)
  
• AP Powertech +(Highest Burst DPS, Sonic Rebounder, Taunts, Aoe Stun, Good Overall DPS with Close & Personal and Pyroshield, Highest Brontes Burn DPS)
  
• Pyro Powertech +(High Overall DPS, All Benefits of PT's mentioned at AP)
  
• All Three Sniper Specs +(Best Range DPS, Sniper Shield, High AOE DR, good at all Encounters if you can play all specs)
  

 

Average

• Fury Mara +(High Overall and High Burst Damage) -(really bad positioning due to obliterate(kills you in izax burn)
  
• IO Merc +(Good Overall Single Target DPS, Strong Dots, really good for izax p4)
  
• Deception Sin +(Nice Burst, Medium Overall DPS, Taunts, Stealth Rezz, nice overpowered utilities for some boss encounters) -(positioning behind target required for max dps, lack of 10m skills)
  
• Hatred Sin +(Good Overall DPS, High under 30% DPS, Taunts etc)
  
• Lethality Operative +(Good Overall DPS) -(Weak Damage Reduction)
  
• Vengeance Juggernaut +(Good Overall DPS, High Aoe DPS, Taunts, easiest dps spec imo) -(extremly bad aoe dr)
  

Low

• Arsenal Merc + (Good DCD'S, Armor Debuff if needed) - (low DPS, slow target switch, weak or little group utilites)
  
• Both Sorc Specs + (Electric Bindings for Styrak NIM) - (low DPS, weak or little group utilites(especially with sorc heal in your group)
  
• Carnage Mara + (all benefits of maras in general, armor debuff) - (fury/annihilation are superior in any aspect)
  
• Concealment Operative (imo: just play it for fun if your group setup/skills allow it...)
  
• rage juggernaut (imo: just play it for fun if your group setup/skills allow it...)
  

Edited September 11, 2018 by ultimarb

[winterelegy]

I'm sorry for your "progression" group if the are not able to tell you what's current meta in hm/nim raiding.

Ok stop trolling straight answer....

 

in fact your arsenal merc is the bottom of dps ranking in 5.9 pve content. you should only prefer it above dot merc in boss encounters needing burst damage or aoe damage.

e.g. Draxus, Styrak, Tyth or doing Adds at Trasher

overall dps of io will be much higher than arsenal. since you'Re planing to do some progression at least learn io rotation. keep it as simple as it could be (there are really easy low heat rotations which are doing enough dps)

 

Deception Sin is ok for almost all content. you have nice burst on higher frequency compared to ap powertechs (top notch single target burst)

and deception sins have some nice utilities which are op in the nim endboss encounters of tfb and s&v. (dodge slam & electric bindings)

 

Most fotm setups for raiding aims to get a group around pt's, snipers & maras, since those as dps.

Those classes offers high dps specs including some of the best group utilities for raiding. (sonic rebounder, sniper shield, predation and bloodthirst for example, aoe dr on all three classes)

 

All other classes will fit around those setups. Arsenal can be in fact a burden to a raiding crew with lower overall dps.

 

 

 

so my personal ranking (please consider that you can clear all pve content with any specs)

 

Best

• Annihilation Mara +( High DPS Dot Spec, great at AOE, All benefits of Maras)
  
• AP Powertech +(Highest Burst DPS, Sonic Rebounder, Taunts, Aoe Stun, Good Overall DPS with Close & Personal and Pyroshield, Highest Brontes Burn DPS)
  
• Pyro Powertech +(High Overall DPS, All Benefits of PT's mentioned at AP)
  
• All Three Sniper Specs +(Best Range DPS, Sniper Shield, High AOE DR, good at all Encounters if you can play all specs)
  

 

Average

• Fury Mara +(High Overall and High Burst Damage) -(really bad positioning due to obliterate(kills you in izax burn)
  
• IO Merc +(Good Overall Single Target DPS, Strong Dots, really good for izax p4)
  
• Deception Sin +(Nice Burst, Medium Overall DPS, Taunts, Stealth Rezz, nice overpowered utilities for some boss encounters) -(positioning behind target required for max dps, lack of 10m skills)
  
• Hatred Sin +(Good Overall DPS, High under 30% DPS, Taunts etc)
  
• Lethality Operative +(Good Overall DPS) -(Weak Damage Reduction)
  
• Vengeance Juggernaut +(Good Overall DPS, High Aoe DPS, Taunts, easiest dps spec imo) -(extremly bad aoe dr)
  

Low

• Arsenal Merc + (Good DCD'S, Armor Debuff if needed) - (low DPS, slow target switch, weak or little group utilites)
  
• Both Sorc Specs + (Electric Bindings for Styrak NIM) - (low DPS, weak or little group utilites(especially with sorc heal in your group)
  
• Carnage Mara + (all benefits of maras in general, armor debuff) - (fury/annihilation are superior in any aspect)
  
• Concealment Operative (imo: just play it for fun if your group setup/skills allow it...)
  
• rage juggernaut (imo: just play it for fun if your group setup/skills allow it...)
  

 

Awesome, this is very comprehensive thank you!! Last night our raid leader (nim level guy) was running IO and outgunning me on every fight so I'm gonna swap and give that a try. Glad to hear Deception is a pretty good spec, I just switched him to biochem so once I get the gold stims/adrenals i'll give him a go in hm

[Rion_Starkiller]

IO is probably the hardest spec in the game.

 

Check out parsely for operations leaderboards and dummy parses: http://parsely.io/parser/operations

[winterelegy]

IO is probably the hardest spec in the game.

 

Check out parsely for operations leaderboards and dummy parses: http://parsely.io/parser/operations

 

Oh cool, didn't know about that site. This is very useful, thanks!

 

Why is IO so hard? Arsenal is probably the easiest so it's ironic that IO would be super difficult

Edited September 11, 2018 by winterelegy

[Rion_Starkiller]

You overheat very easily in IO. If you mess up your rotation, you will probably kill your dps for the rest of the fight. But if your NiM raid leader does IO, I would ask him for tips/instruction. All that said, IO is very strong and I think it would be worth you learning it because you already have your merc geared. And ranged dps is in high demand for operations. Edited September 11, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[Mournblood]

Average

• Lethality Operative +(Good Overall DPS) -(Weak Damage Reduction)
  

 

I would place Lethality Operative over PTs on certain encounters that are extremely melee unfriendly. Yes, Lethality does still have a melee component in their rotation (Lethal Strike), but not nearly as much as PTs do, and their sustained DPS is way better than PTs who will eventually overheat if the fight is long enough.

 

I also don't understand your note that Lethality has poor DR, when in fact, they have much better DR than PTs do if they are spec'd for Fortified Kolto and keep their probes up, which doesn't even include Augmented Shields or Revitalizers as spec choices.

[winterelegy]

You overheat very easily in IO. If you mess up your rotation, you will probably kill your dps for the rest of the fight. But if your NiM raid leader does IO, I would ask him for tips/instruction. All that said, IO is very strong and I think it would be worth you learning it because you already have your merc geared. And ranged dps is in high demand for operations.

 

I swapped last night and tested it out on a dummy for a while, following the guide by nabcobra. I've got the rotation down now, not too difficult, and my dps is around 1000 higher than it was as arsenal (I'm sure I can push it more once I get more familiar) but I definitely see what you mean. If you mess up the rotation you will overheat quickly and once you do than it's gg

[Rion_Starkiller]

I swapped last night and tested it out on a dummy for a while, following the guide by nabcobra. I've got the rotation down now, not too difficult, and my dps is around 1000 higher than it was as arsenal (I'm sure I can push it more once I get more familiar) but I definitely see what you mean. If you mess up the rotation you will overheat quickly and once you do than it's gg

 

I only dabble in IO in pvp, so I'm not an expert. But from what I've seen IO is the highest parsing ranged spec.

See this for gearing: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tTZEODvA4-N_wLXlizG654Ii1z9gI88HavBk1WbTsk0/edit?usp=sharing. I believe you will want to hit the 1860 alacrity threshold for 1.3s gcd.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[ultimarb]

IO is probably the hardest spec in the game.

 

Check out parsely for operations leaderboards and dummy parses: http://parsely.io/parser/operations

 

that is a problem of most rotations used by players for io. actually there is a pretty simple one which does around 50-100 dps less on a dummy but is suitable for any real boss encounter. you wont need heat vent or thermal sensor oveeride for your rotaion. so you can use them for more burst damage or aoe situations.

 

I would place Lethality Operative over PTs on certain encounters that are extremely melee unfriendly. Yes, Lethality does still have a melee component in their rotation (Lethal Strike), but not nearly as much as PTs do, and their sustained DPS is way better than PTs who will eventually overheat if the fight is long enough.

 

I also don't understand your note that Lethality has poor DR, when in fact, they have much better DR than PTs do if they are spec'd for Fortified Kolto and keep their probes up, which doesn't even include Augmented Shields or Revitalizers as spec choices.

 

ok to correct me. i'm talking of passive dr. which in fact you stated with "keep their probes up". this uses gcd's just for dr...a gcd a dps should actually do damage in nim.

AP Pt's Sonic Missile is one of the most underated DCDs in Game.

AP sustained dps is really high for a burst spec and pyrotechs is way above that at the moment.

PT's rating in my ranking was also due to there great benefits and raid utilities for the group.

[Asaxor]

actually there is a pretty simple one which does around 50-100 dps less on a dummy but is suitable for any real boss encounter. you wont need heat vent or thermal sensor oveeride for your rotaion. so you can use them for more burst damage or aoe situations.

Where can I find this rotation?

[ultimarb]

Where can I find this rotation?

 

http://parsely.io/parser/view/349844

 

if it would have been public listed it would be around 4th-5th during this time at parsely.io (prior 5.8). Full 248 gear. legacy gearparts 236 augmented.

 

the whole rotation is heat neutral. so you can add some extra "burst" dps or aoe dps with heat vent or thermal sensor override when necessary. the rotation is good enough for all dps checks in game. a 2nd benefit is the huge mobility. the only cast you have with this rotation (using all procs and channels) is the serrated shot. so in a 13-15 second rotation you just cant move for 1.3 seconds.

[winterelegy]

I only dabble in IO in pvp, so I'm not an expert. But from what I've seen IO is the highest parsing ranged spec.

See this for gearing: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tTZEODvA4-N_wLXlizG654Ii1z9gI88HavBk1WbTsk0/edit?usp=sharing. I believe you will want to hit the 1860 alacrity threshold for 1.3s gcd.

 

Great chart, thanks! Right now I still have the higher crit / lower alacrity build so I'll have to try to swap some stuff to get to 1860 alacrity. Ran IO in ToS last night and I think it went way better than using Arsenal, but I noticed an issue where after several rotations I'd get caught waiting for like 1-2 sec for some of the stuff to finish cooldown, this is probably fixed with the higher alacrity (and probably getting a bit more familiar with the build in general during actual fights)

[ultimarb]

Great chart, thanks! Right now I still have the higher crit / lower alacrity build so I'll have to try to swap some stuff to get to 1860 alacrity. Ran IO in ToS last night and I think it went way better than using Arsenal, but I noticed an issue where after several rotations I'd get caught waiting for like 1-2 sec for some of the stuff to finish cooldown, this is probably fixed with the higher alacrity (and probably getting a bit more familiar with the build in general during actual fights)

 

i personally prefer the old stats of about 1800 crit and a little bit more than 1500 alactrity.

my rotaion suffers from 1860 alacrity since it relies on a proc of magshot which is time triggered to passives. so mag shot want proc if you use 1860 alacrity with those rotation. same things can happen if someone uses merc raidbuff (alacrity) or if you use the alacrity utility on heat vent.

Edited September 13, 2018 by ultimarb

[Khevar]

i personally prefer the old stats of about 1800 crit and a little bit more than 1500 alactrity.

my rotaion suffers from 1860 alacrity since it relies on a proc of magshot which is time triggered to passives. so mag shot want proc if you use 1860 alacrity with those rotation. same things can happen if someone uses merc raidbuff (alacrity) or if you use the alacrity utility on heat vent.

I was under the impression that 1500 alacrity would have the same effect as 703 alacity, in that both reduce the CGD by 0.1 seconds.

 

Is this not the case?

[Rion_Starkiller]

I was under the impression that 1500 alacrity would have the same effect as 703 alacity, in that both reduce the CGD by 0.1 seconds.

 

Is this not the case?

 

It still affects how quickly your abilities come off CD, and how they line up in your rotation.

GCD affects how fast you can mash buttons.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[Khevar]

It still affects how quickly your abilities come off CD, and how they line up in your rotation.

GCD affects how fast you can mash buttons.

Makes sense.

 

Do IO cooldowns line up better with 1500 than they do with 1860?

[Mournblood]

ok to correct me. i'm talking of passive dr. which in fact you stated with "keep their probes up". this uses gcd's just for dr...a gcd a dps should actually do damage in nim.

AP Pt's Sonic Missile is one of the most underated DCDs in Game.

AP sustained dps is really high for a burst spec and pyrotechs is way above that at the moment.

PT's rating in my ranking was also due to there great benefits and raid utilities for the group.

 

You sound like you have some experience here, as do I, but respectfully, Dulfy doesn't support your rankings. As of 5.3, Lethality Ops are considered the highest single target (boss) sustained DPS class by a comfortable margin over other DPS specs such as AP and Pyrotech PTs. And their Group/Raid Utility is on par with PTs, with a battle revive off cooldown, the hardest hitting reflect in the game, a raid-wide Crit buff, tech/elemental damage debuffs, and self-heals to relieve pressure on the healers.

 

http://dulfy.net/2017/08/07/swtor-5-3-lethality-operative-pve-guide-by-prise/

[ultimarb]

You sound like you have some experience here, as do I, but respectfully, Dulfy doesn't support your rankings. As of 5.3, Lethality Ops are considered the highest single target (boss) sustained DPS class by a comfortable margin over other DPS specs such as AP and Pyrotech PTs. And their Group/Raid Utility is on par with PTs, with a battle revive off cooldown, the hardest hitting reflect in the game, a raid-wide Crit buff, tech/elemental damage debuffs, and self-heals to relieve pressure on the healers.

 

http://dulfy.net/2017/08/07/swtor-5-3-lethality-operative-pve-guide-by-prise/

 

as stated in my first post here the ranking is made of my "personal" opinion and experience ingame.i put lethality operatives in the average section. so it's far away from beeing bad and imo not in the best specs section.

5.3 is long time gone and in 5.9 their average dps (dummy) is on the same level with pyrotech (close and personal is not triggered by dummy) and i dont consider self heals as a raid utility this is healers job

[ultimarb]

Makes sense.

 

Do IO cooldowns line up better with 1500 than they do with 1860?

 

for me and my rotation it does. there are still many other guys playing high alacrity (+1860) on io and doing well with it too.