Fall Roadmap Now Live!

[Mournblood]

 

First: what is the point making another gear tier before the level cap is increased and everything rescaled?

 

Second: what are the ideas of "guild progression?" How does my small pvp guild compare to say a large conquest guild? Or am I once again locked out of rewards and titles because I do not want to take on hundreds of random people?

 

Third: conquest: what are you changing and why? There have been literal hundreds of pages of feedback requesting adjustments that have been pointedly ignored. It is obvious for whatever reason, you intend to continue catering toward large guilds that can easily gain caps through sheer numbers. (Side note, this is why i am worried about "progression" as well.)

 

Fourth: the guild pvp system: i read this as basically an extension of rishi. "Create your own... against other guilds." This leads me to believe you essentially intend this to become the "new" group pvp for guilds like mine. To this i have several points:

1. Does this new system grant rewards? I.e. UC, CXP, credit toward a weekly, etc. If it doesn't, then with all due respect, it is not a replacement for organized pvp.

2. To extend my above arguments, i can see a potential logical progression here. Premades in regs = bad --> nerf them via the seemingly undercomplicated skill based matchmaking --> people are still whining about premades in regs --> appear to give them a format just for them --> further and more pointedly nerf premades in regs.

3. This is bad for the reasons outlined in 1, as well as the low and seemingly decreasing population. The recent changes have caused no less than 5 people out of my guild to drop their sub, using their remaining time to decide whether or not they wish to continue swtor.

 

I echo Kendra's concerns here. For small guilds, specifically, small PvP guilds, the proposed changes seem ominous. If it's your intention to remove group/guild queues from regular WZs, you will lose players. That's not conjecture. That is a fact. If the new tier of gear (schematics) requires MM Ops, that's also going to hurt your player base. Guild progression needs to necessarily include small guilds. I'm skeptical here because the Conquest changes favor large guilds (who are not limited to large Conquest targets as they should be), so my faith in your ability to make decisions that are inclusive of small guilds is a little shaken.

 

I sincerely hope you guys are taking into consideration that you have a lot of small guilds in the game now that lack either the ability or the desire to participate in certain activities, such as Operations. For some of us (not all), our primary activity is PvP. I realize that PvE is a very large aspect of this game, and I in fact enjoy (solo) PvE, but I would caution you that the moment you start implementing changes that limit game activity to appease certain players, you will lose much more than you will gain.

[StormForceDax]

It most likely will be ranked and HM/NIM OPs, since that is the only content that people need that type of gear for. Agreed I think its stupid, but then again I hate gear period. And I hate crafting more. But it makes sense to put those rewards in those places because the only people who need it and benefit from it, are the few elitist people who play that content.

 

I detest the Republic vs Empire war, on the sole fact it was a giant manipulation from Vitiate to cause death so he could suck the living day Force out of everyone and live forever. Like, WHY are they still fighting!?!? And being forced to pick a side I hate also, I wish I was just a freelancer Guardian of the Galaxy flying around with my companions helping people.

 

 

It makes sense kinda why they still look the same (because of background coding issues) but I wish the customizations we put on them could still be there, oh well. Also waiting this long for them to return was WAY beyond a stupid choice, all the companions should have returned YEARS ago.

 

I expect it will as well, in-fact I believe Eric has said as much without actually confirming it. I think the word probably was used. Need gear has nothing to do with it for two reasons. One the game economy, If this gear is sellable on GNT it give the few a huge advantage which would be fine if there were different sub rates. Secondly and this is not a huge thing for me but if as a solo player I suddenly wanted to get involved in PvP or try operations for the first time. Having the best gear helps. Its been a long time since I did an operation and only ever did two. The amount as flack some players got for well many different reasons but one was gear. So it does have an effect. Also I personally can stand player who come to the forums say oh you don't need it! Like it makes any difference them if others have it or not. Still that's a personal thing. Don't worry I know you are not say this even if you gave reasons why it may be so.

 

I am one the same page as you about the new (same old thing) Empire/ Republic war. Yawn

 

As for companion, yes there may well be reason as to why, I just thought it be a nice gesture from BW as they have made us wait so long, though only Nadia will be returning out of these 3 for me as hate doc and have zero dark side characters so Dark Jassa is not an option for me.

[neavenlucy]

I have never felt the need to post on the forums before but I feel I have to this time. Please don't make tier 5 gear all crafted. There must be another method also to get them. Imagine, as like now the same old people who are making the new augs and now this stuff, selling it and making more and more creds because people like me and many many others don't like to craft.

Will the new gear be needed for anything but MM God's? That would be nice to know also.

[kodrac]

First: what is the point making another gear tier before the level cap is increased and everything rescaled?

 

It more than likely means that the level cap increase (6.0) is a long ways away and this is just a new treadmill to put us on in the meantime. i suspect 6.0 is further off than what people are hoping and this is a time waster or gap filler.

Edited September 6, 2018 by kodrac

[Lakemine]

I think it will be better. They are veering away from many of the past metas regarding the game's style of play. They have really done quite a few things outside the box, so I suspect the next phase of gearing to be better than the 5.0 fiasco.

 

They are incorporating new things like guild vs. guild PVP options, which I hypothetically mentioned they could do with conquest awhile back... Either someone was reading forum posts, or my idea simply echoed changes they already had in store for the game before my post. Either way, I think that's a neat idea if they can do it in a seamless manner fitting into the game well...

 

They seem to have their fingers on the pulse for once, and making changes that are improving the game. That being said, I honestly hope they find a way to make conquest better. If they do not want to make it easier to grind and maximize with alts by lifting legacy restrictions, then do something. Conquest needs improvements one way or another.

 

To Keith; thanks for trying with true and honest effort to make the game better. I think it's not an easy task with the resources available as well as just the sheer size of what it is you are trying to shape and make better, this mega MMO of a game. With all the restrictions and limitations from budget costs to actual physical limitations the game has within you are still managing to alter the game in more ways than not which are making it better and I personally appreciate it. I just wanted to say thanks, on my behalf.

 

Even though I will find something to complain about till the game servers die, I want to echo this. Thanks Keith and other devs. I love Star Wars, and have since I was 6. Keep it up! (And yes, I will still complain about issues till the day I die )

[Lakemine]

Sorry to break it to you, but you are not evolving if you're not getting anywhere. You are in the same place you were 10 years ago. But I digress, at least in WoW, old content doesn't level up with you (though this has issues as well), so I am not as troubled by more gear and levels, but the same can't be said about SWTOR.

 

A champion point is not the same as a level, for the champion point system is as separate progression system after level cap. That would be like saying Command Ranks are levels.

 

I don't mind evolving my character from time to time, but not in the way that forces me to do what I already did just to put myself back in the same spot I just was. Of course, if it were otherwise, eventually it would get to the point in which we would become too powerful, so there has to be an end to it. If that's your only reason to play, then I don't know what to say. There are a lot of other things to enjoy about a game; I am surprised people seem to like one of the most hated tropes of MMORPGs. Even a story needs an ending. MMOs suffer because of this, as the quality of everything else is brought down to support this system. They back themselves into a corner thinking that they can live forever, but everything comes to an end. Eventually Bioware will have to realize that new tiers of gear are superfluous, and that only so much story can come out before our characters get old and die.

 

I'd much rather have a lasting impression than something stretched so thin that it loses depth.

 

Not all MMORPGs have to follow the same trends. SWTOR is not WoW, even though both are themepark. They should focus on doing their own thing, otherwise why should I bother to play one over the other? A little imagination would dictate that MMORPG =/= WoW. WoW is an MMORPG; MMORPGs are not WoW.

 

So no, new tiers of gear don't have to come. I'd be okay with it if they didn't scale previous content, thus giving the new tiers a point to actually exist. ..which does kind of happen throughout an expansion, but only until its end. The downside to that is that old content would no longer be relevant. And getting new gear would still be rather pointless if you are still at the same playing field as current content. Why get new gear and levels if I am still only going to be as strong as the content I'm facing and never stronger? Of course, as I've said, even becoming more powerful wouldn't work out, as it would get to the point we would be too powerful for even the lore to handle.

 

New tiers of gear and levels cause too many problems. Publishers should accept the fact that only so much money could be made from any game and thus not make these things their focus as well as ours. This is why subscriptions won't work, at least not when they come with the promise of future content, or use gear and levels as a selling point. Eventually we will come to a stalemate with any subscription existing only to keep the servers alive, and maybe a new battleground or warzone every now and then. Until then, it's just milking the cow while it lasts. I, however, think these games and their players deserve better treatment

 

Look at World of Tanks/Ships/Planes and War Thunder for example. The highest Tier is Tier X/Rank 5. Once we reach our goal of getting the tank(s) we want, why do we keep playing and keep paying? Because its fun. No new tiers or sub fee required. They are making a killing without having to constantly raise the bar of level and gear rating, so don't say it won't work.

 

Thank you for taking the words right out of my mouth and I don't have to go and retype them.

[Lakemine]

According to some here in the forum.. lowbies NEVER pop at all.

 

I only pvp at 70, lowbie and midbie pvp is just too stupid with the unbalanced mess of different levels and abilities. Also the queue times are WAY to long. I havnt pvped lowbie in maybe 3-4 years.

[Lakemine]

I felt a lot happier about the roadmap after the livestream except for Tier 5:

 

I suspect it will be the the new minimum for everything. Not everyone has crafting but many will be forced to take it up. Not many do OPs let alone the hardest ones (I've never stepped foot in one and have no plans to) so I will have no chance of getting the schematics if they are BoP. If they are BoE you can bet the prices will be upwards of 100 million. They need to rethink where schematics will drop or be obtained OR reconsider where Tier 5 will drop. I remember they said that the top augment schematics were originally going to be rare drops from the hardest mode FPs but this was changed; similar should be considered for the Tier 5 schematics. In addition, there's been no mention of what mats will be needed - will crafted tier 5 use currently available mats or are they introducing new ones?

 

 

People (myself included) felt that 2+ real life years was an unreasonable wait for the return of our LIs. The chapter returns were a good idea; what wasn't was being forced to run a chapter or part of a chapter with a companion who I would have rather have shot in the face on meeting. It may have required a little more creative thinking, however the initial KOFTE chapters could have been written to accommodate more of the class LI companions rather than just one or two that were not wanted. I think the feedback on companion returns was misinterpreted by the Devs and resulted in the short, disappointing returns we have now. Maybe they will give us more companion choice in the future (but looking at the roadmap, it looks like they are going to force new companions on us no matter what, even though they said they wouldn't).

 

To the first one, I think the only content (atm till 6.0) that is being balanced with the new tier 5 gear is the nightmare GotM, ALL of the other content ingame atm (even other NIM OPs) are not being retuned or balanced for the new tier of gear.

 

To the second point, agreed 100%.

[Lakemine]

You're assuming they won't **** it up and mark your character as having DS Jaesa instead. They've done that before with the 'spy on everyone/don't spy on everyone' choice, wouldn't surprise me if they mess up again.

 

Sadly that is just one of the many many MANY bugs that were added with 4.0 when they deleted all the old companion and storyline coding so they could add <REDACTED> into the game. They have fixed some, but these bugs still keep happing because of the coding lines are not connecting and are overwriting each other and canceling each other out. Its very sad.

[Neoforcer]

Keith's Fall Roadmap is now live! You can check it out, here.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Ya another crappy gear grind with mats behind either raiding or rank pvp. So we can have farmers mess up solo ranked game play. As a pvper who now has to raid to get the stuff you will need as a crafter that will reward large guilds and punish small ones.

 

This is why the game is dying to much grinding less fun and game play farm, farm, farm, IF I wanted to be a farmer I would buy some land....

[Lakemine]

I echo Kendra's concerns here. For small guilds, specifically, small PvP guilds, the proposed changes seem ominous. If it's your intention to remove group/guild queues from regular WZs, you will lose players. That's not conjecture. That is a fact. If the new tier of gear (schematics) requires MM Ops, that's also going to hurt your player base. Guild progression needs to necessarily include small guilds. I'm skeptical here because the Conquest changes favor large guilds (who are not limited to large Conquest targets as they should be), so my faith in your ability to make decisions that are inclusive of small guilds is a little shaken.

 

I sincerely hope you guys are taking into consideration that you have a lot of small guilds in the game now that lack either the ability or the desire to participate in certain activities, such as Operations. For some of us (not all), our primary activity is PvP. I realize that PvE is a very large aspect of this game, and I in fact enjoy (solo) PvE, but I would caution you that the moment you start implementing changes that limit game activity to appease certain players, you will lose much more than you will gain.

 

I could be completely wrong (so Eric please correct me), but I think it was mentioned that the Guild v Guild pvp, was a separate queue, or its like you make your own server and invite another guild to it. Doubt it will be a option you select before queuing for regs in pvp, and then it finds other groups in queue and kicks all solo queuers out. Now THAT would be stupid, which is why I doubt they will do that. (But I have been wrong before.)

 

The guild progression stuff it seems is the same for all guilds, just bigger guilds get the higher rewards faster since they have more people, doesn't mean smaller guilds cant get the same rewards, just takes longer. Again, I could be wrong on this. Eric? Confirm or explain differently?

[TUXs]

It more than likely means that the level cap increase (6.0) is a long ways away and this is just a new treadmill to put us on in the meantime. i suspect 6.0 is further off than what people are hoping and this is a time waster or gap filler.

Ugh...hadn't even considered this yet, but it's perfectly reasonable to assume you're correct.

[olagatonjedi]

I could be completely wrong (so Eric please correct me), but I think it was mentioned that the Guild v Guild pvp, was a separate queue, or its like you make your own server and invite another guild to it. Doubt it will be a option you select before queuing for regs in pvp, and then it finds other groups in queue and kicks all solo queuers out. Now THAT would be stupid, which is why I doubt they will do that. (But I have been wrong before.)

 

The guild progression stuff it seems is the same for all guilds, just bigger guilds get the higher rewards faster since they have more people, doesn't mean smaller guilds cant get the same rewards, just takes longer. Again, I could be wrong on this. Eric? Confirm or explain differently?

Or it may be similar to toggle in that even in pve worls, your guild toggles you to be open to attack or be attacked by another specific guild only. There are a few game with this mechanic in place. That setup was initially what i thought when i resd it.

[Ollmich]

Gear – I vaguely remember that a few months ago new set bonuses were accidently added to the game and then removed. Maybe new tier has something to do with that.

 

(Btw, the outcry about gear is amusing. It’s obviously supposed to help folks who’re planning to run MM Gods even though top raiders will probably be able to complete it in 236 . Progression teams who can’t kill certain bosses in other MMs because of the lack of dps (raises hand) may also find it helpful assuming the schematics and mats aren’t locked behind the content they can’t beat. I understand pvpers’ frustration but rather than that… why do people even care and pretend that someone is forcing them to grind stuff.)

 

Story – I’m not happy about returning to pubs vs. imps conflict after everything our characters have achieved, including mitigating this very conflict, but my inner EU fan was excited to see a mention of a certain world from Tales of the Jedi comics. I also hope we’ll get an update on Jedi / Sith Outlanders’ current status in the Order / Sith food chain: are they considered to be outcasts? do they have a chance to reclaim their pre-carbonite ranks, positions and titles? will they be welcomed? what their former colleagues think of them and their actions?

 

Companions – as a JC main glad to see Nadia coming back.

 

Vandin map – as a Huttball lover looking forward to it and hoping for another chance to participate in PTS tests since I missed the previous ones.

 

QoL for guilds – interesting, but looks like the fight for increasing guild member cap has to continue.

 

And…

You’ll notice a variety of enhancements to weapons, armor, PvP warzones, guild systems, decorations, Galactic Starfighter, and more on a continuous basis over the coming YEARS.

…this.

[robertthebard]

Non pvpers just don’t get the whole gear thing. I’ve been trying to explain it to them for 2 years and they still think it doesn’t make much difference what lvl your gear is.

 

I believe the reason is they all play dumbed down pve content that makes no difference if you play it naked or with the best gear. From their perspective, gear doesn’t seem to matter much.

 

I’m sure if they actually cared to learn to pvp and understand how it works in this game and not base their ideas on some theory of “all MMOs” are this way, so swtor must be too, then maybe they could grasp why BiS gear is important for everyone to have reasonable access too in pvp.

 

So your previous post asking about bumping up the bolster was sarcasm, or a joke?

[Andryah]

It more than likely means that the level cap increase (6.0) is a long ways away and this is just a new treadmill to put us on in the meantime. i suspect 6.0 is further off than what people are hoping and this is a time waster or gap filler.

 

^^ Exactly.

 

Most likely 6-8 months away and this is just another hamster wheel for people to grind on.

[Rion_Starkiller]

So your previous post asking about bumping up the bolster was sarcasm, or a joke?

I think Trixie has been advocating for pvp to be bolstered to 248+ so that gear DOESN'T matter. Also, 1.5 years ago pvp was bolstered to 250? I could be wrong... memory hazy.

 

 

^^ Exactly.

 

Most likely 6-8 months away and this is just another hamster wheel for people to grind on.

 

That's why I'm not unhappy about the new gear grind. It gives me something to do. I'm bored! I may have to download the PTS even tho I dont have SSD space right now.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[Andryah]

I think Trixie has been advocating for pvp to be bolstered to 248+ so that gear DOESN'T matter. Also, 1.5 years ago pvp was bolstered to 250? I could be wrong... memory hazy.

 

As I have shared in the past..... in my view, they should just make PvP non-gear based entirely.. and be done with it. That way Skill + Teamwork (which is often an oxymoron in PvP I think) > anything else and PvPers can move on to their next favorite brush fire ... which is probably centered around class balance and XYZ class being over powered and ABC class being underpowered, rinse and repeat ..... which would make the discussion exactly the same as in every other MMO forum since MMOs began.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Andryah

[mhobin]

As I have shared in the past..... in my view, they should just make PvP non-gear based entirely.. and be done with it. That way Skill + Teamwork (which is often an oxymoron in PvP I think) > anything else and PvPers can move on to their next favorite brush fire ... which is probably centered around class balance and XYZ class being over powered and ABC class being underpowered, rinse and repeat ..... which would make the discussion exactly the same as in every other MMO forum since MMOs began.

 

Agreed

 

P.S nerf Mercs

[Andryah]

A bit askew of the topic itself ... but I have to say..... the RoadMap and the livestream certainly has given forum members new bones to chew and growl with each other over.

[Rion_Starkiller]

A bit askew of the topic itself ... but I have to say..... the RoadMap and the livestream certainly has given forum members new bones to chew and growl with each other over.

 

Borkborkbork! Back off.

[robertthebard]

I think Trixie has been advocating for pvp to be bolstered to 248+ so that gear DOESN'T matter. Also, 1.5 years ago pvp was bolstered to 250? I could be wrong... memory hazy.

 

 

 

 

That's why I'm not unhappy about the new gear grind. It gives me something to do. I'm bored! I may have to download the PTS even tho I dont have SSD space right now.

 

In the fully bolstered PvP setting, gear isn't all that important, as you will be buffed to competitive no matter what your gear score is. Stating on one hand that bolster needs to be boosted, and then claiming that people don't understand gear in PvP is mildly contradictive, so some clarification of intent would be fun. What I expect to see, however, is "I have proof, trust me", which is something I have seen before, from the same poster.

[Lakemine]

As I have shared in the past..... in my view, they should just make PvP non-gear based entirely.. and be done with it. That way Skill + Teamwork (which is often an oxymoron in PvP I think) > anything else and PvPers can move on to their next favorite brush fire ... which is probably centered around class balance and XYZ class being over powered and ABC class being underpowered, rinse and repeat ..... which would make the discussion exactly the same as in every other MMO forum since MMOs began.

 

^ Agreed.

[TrixxieTriss]

Not sure if this has been asked yet.

 

Will there be an increase in guild sizes to coincide with the guild QOL improvements.

[TrixxieTriss]

I think Trixie has been advocating for pvp to be bolstered to 248+ so that gear DOESN'T matter. Also, 1.5 years ago pvp was bolstered to 250? I could be wrong... memory hazy.

 

You are correct on both counts. When 5.0 launches, Bolster was higher than the top gear and made for a lvl playing field.

Then they quickly nerfed it back to 236 to make people grind gear

Then they buffed it up to 242 after we all complained for months that 236 vs 248 was to big of a gap.

Then they added 236-240 Augments and that basically negated the Bolster increase because using Augments below 242 won’t give you more stats. In some cases it actually reduces stats.

Adding the Augments was like adding defacto tier 4 gear with no Bolster increase to compensate.

 

Pvp should always be about skill and not gear. I have argued for this since they launched 5.0. But it seems Bioware we’re determined to make people grind gear and the incentive (stick) was to keep a sizeable gear gap or you would be at a disadvantage in pvp.

 

If they go ahead with tier 5 gear being crafted and no easy way for regular pvpers to geared up, then we will have a massive problem in pvp.

 

I’ve posted this before, there really are only 2 options that I see working (that doesn’t shaft pvpers).

1. Have seperate pvp gear that is fast to obtain and doesn’t work as well in pve. Then make pve gear not work as well in pvp. (The same as it use to be)

2. Increase Bolster above tier 5 gear so that everyone is on a lvl playing field and gear doesn’t matter.

 

Edit: I have some ideas on how to sort of do number one and also fix another pvp problem we currently have. The other pvp problem is lack of participation in lowbie pvp.

 

1. Increase the amount of UCs dropped in pvp.

2. Add UCs to lowbie pvp as rewards to work like the old comm system did.

3. Make the current 248 the top lvl pvp gear.

4. Make tier 5 gear not work as well in pvp (maybe reverse Bolster or add a special stat that adds a debuff to people wearing it in pvp)

Edited September 7, 2018 by TrixxieTriss