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"...the game’s most exciting year yet." [Casey Hudson]


Bristol

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You raise a fair point, but there is a but...In my 14 years of online gaming experience, I think this is forum is on the upper end of degree of contention.

 

I agree that he raised some very fair and reasonable points about the audience.

 

I disagree with you that this particular gaming forum is the most contentious. I still browse around several of them from time to time and I can say that they are all materially similar. A great current example would be yet another "game is dead" thread active over in the WoW forums.... right after the expac launched! I about fell off my chair laughing at that thread as I read through it.. because you could have simply changed the name of the game and deposited the thread into this forum and nobody would have even noticed.

 

Players move around so much now days among the popular MMOs, and they take their memes and rhetoric with them everywhere they go.. and it is infectious to a certain degree because some players love a good "bandwagon" and have no real opinions of their own.. and need others to tell them how to feel about anything and everything.

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To add to my original post, I would like to point out that while I think that gamers are often rightfully unsatisfied with games that were obviously made to exploit their wallets, I think modern gamers do have a fatal flaw- and that is a very common inability to distinguish between "I personally dislike this" and "this is objectively bad".

 

A lot of the time, the harshest criticizers of any game or studio tend to err on the side of "this doesn't suit my personal taste, so therefor I believe it is bad"- regardless of how well made or enjoyable a game actually was. This can do some severe injustice to a game's reputation, and often does so even before the game has been published at all.

 

Overall I think the gaming community could stand to own its opinions more than it does, and not speak too unfairly of a game that clearly wasn't made for them. Not every game for a franchise you like is going to be structured the exact same way, or provide exactly what you want, or even be the same genre, and that's okay. There will be other games that are, and in the meantime, it doesn't hurt to allow others to enjoy something that was made more to their personal taste.

 

A very lucid and accurate portrayal of the wider MMO player base.... not just for SWTOR.. but for all MMOs really. :)

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I agree that he raised some very fair and reasonable points about the audience.

 

I disagree with you that this particular gaming forum is the most contentious. I still browse around several of them from time to time and I can say that they are all materially similar. A great current example would be yet another "game is dead" thread active over in the WoW forums.... right after the expac launched! I about fell off my chair laughing at that thread as I read through it.. because you could have simply changed the name of the game and deposited the thread into this forum and nobody would have even noticed.

 

Phew! We've been agreeing far too much as of late! :rak_03:

 

Oh, I have selected you to pay me the $5 I paid for Treek! I'll settle for 1 million credits. I'm on Star Forge (mostly).

 

More broadly, I agree it is subjective about level of toxicity on a forum and inherently difficult to prove. To your point...

 

Chiiiiilllllld -- have you seen the debate on the Wow forums about level scaling not being implemented correctly in Battle for Azeroth! :rak_03:

 

But I will stand by my point that this game adds a layer of toxicity given its identity crisis over the years, which some might interpret as a bait and switch.

 

Dasty

Edited by Jdast
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Phew! We've been agreeing far too much as of late! :rak_03:

 

Oh, I have selected you to pay me the $5 I paid for Treek! I'll settle for 1 million credits. I'm on Star Forge (mostly).

 

More broadly, I agree it is subjective about level of toxicity on a forum and inherently difficult to prove. To your point...

 

Chiiiiilllllld -- have you seen the debate on the Wow forums about level scaling not being implemented correctly in Battle for Azeroth! :rak_03:

 

But I will stand by my point that this game adds a layer of toxicity given its identity crisis over the years, which some might interpret as a bait and switch.

 

Dasty

 

The WoW forums, being the forum behind the 800 lb gorilla... does make for a good data set on the overall insanity that exists within the world MMO player base. :)

 

I do agree with you on the point about some of the local toxicity here being driven by rabid SW fanisms. :D They seem to feel entitled to be the official lore gatekeepers of all things Star Wars... even though they largely cannot agree among themselves and will try to go full cannibal on each other at every opportunity. :p

Edited by Andryah
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I disagree with you that this particular gaming forum is the most contentious. I still browse around several of them from time to time and I can say that they are all materially similar. A great current example would be yet another "game is dead" thread active over in the WoW forums.... right after the expac launched! I about fell off my chair laughing at that thread as I read through it.. because you could have simply changed the name of the game and deposited the thread into this forum and nobody would have even noticed.

 

I agree this forum is hardly "the most contentious" too. Obviously some people have not perused many gaming forums if they think this one is the most toxic or contentious lol.

 

The part about even WOW players criticizing their game with "game is dead" threads also shows that malcontents/trolls exist everywhere. I shouldn't need to point this out, but the fact is the internet with it's cloak of anonymity allows it's denizens (us) to write hyperbolic, sensational and sometimes even offensive words with zero repercussions for their actions and words except for a possible ban by the mods.

 

When i reach points of unhappiness or discontent with a game, I walk away. Either I quit it, or take a break and try playing it later down the road in case changes have been made to give it a try again.

 

Sometimes, just regular burnout occurs and my annoyance with the game is not just failures on the games behalf but instead inner feelings I harbor personally that have little to do with the game itself.

 

People that scream the game is awful and blah blah blah have a right to their opinions, but I view this as a juvenile manner in which to vent their personal frustrations. Mostly in truth it's not the game, it's them that needs reevaluated.

 

Sure, I may dislike the gearing system change they implement, and i might even struggle with their explanations as to why they did it... But I never said THIS GAME IS CRAP just because I personally disliked the changes. There's actually people that like the present gearing system, and that fact alone shows me that my opinion isn't universally the truth and the only truth.

 

The solution to game frustration is a really simple one, take a break. Often times it's just a matter of needing to deprocess some of the game input you've bombarded your brain with and the old gaming adage "go outside" could easily apply here.

Edited by Lhancelot
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I agree this forum is hardly "the most contentious" too. Obviously some people have not perused many gaming forums if they think this one is the most toxic or contentious lol.

 

 

Good thing that is not what I said. Reading is FUNdamental.

 

Dasty

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Good thing that is not what I said. Reading is FUNdamental.

 

Dasty

 

While it is true you worded it a bit less precise that that... that is the way it reads to me, since you did not define any that might be more to the extreme then this one. :)

You raise a fair point, but there is a but...In my 14 years of online gaming experience, I think this is forum is on the upper end of degree of contention.

 

Unusual to see you "split hairs". :)

 

I think the broader message really is ---> this nonsense is slathered over every gaming forum on the internet.. and the degree of absurdity is pretty constant across them all.. though on any given day.... drama in a particular forum could indeed reach Oscar winning proportions and temporarily eclipse all other contenders. :p

Edited by Andryah
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While it is true you worded it a bit less precise that that... that is the way it reads to me, since you did not define any that might be more to the extreme then this one. :)

 

 

Unusual to see you "split hairs". :)

 

I think the broader message really is ... this nonsense is slathered over every gaming forum on the internet.. and the degree of absurdity is pretty constant across them all.. though on any given day.... drama in a particular forum could indeed reach Oscar winning proportions and temporarily eclipse all other contenders. :p

 

Agreed. Let's pretend I didn't say upper end (which is not most or even top 10% necessarily). The main point I was trying to make was...

 

In a game that has gone from one demographic to another in terms of targeting, I understand why some people take it more personally in comparison to other games. People vest in a game emphasizing standard MMO group activity and suddenly get KotFE/ET -- essentially a solo game.

 

I can't think of a game that has done so many bait and switches in terms of game direction. So forget about comparing which forums are most contentious; it's inherently impossible to measure. I shouldn't have said that because it distracted from my main point.

 

Me bad. Now you only me 800,000 credits for Treek! :rak_03:

 

Dasty

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In a game that has gone from one demographic to another in terms of targeting, I understand why some people take it more personally in comparison to other games. People vest in a game emphasizing standard MMO group activity and suddenly get KotFE/ET -- essentially a solo game.

 

I can't think of a game that has done so many bait and switches in terms of game direction. So forget about comparing which forums are most contentious; it's inherently impossible to measure. I shouldn't have said that because it distracted from my main point.

 

Well.. their ongoing shifting of game direction is definitely unsettling to some players.. so you are absolutely correct about it contributing to hyperbolic ranting and gnashing.

 

Personally, I look at it a bit differently-----> the studio is both willing and capable of taking the game in new directions. KoTFE was actually widely embraced by players, and so popular that it reintroduced server log-in queues for a number of montns and forced the studio to reconfigure several servers for larger populations. KOTFE took the game more in the direction of the studio's history (being story focused and somewhat KOTOR like), but in terms of what some MMO players expect of an MMO it was not pleasing to them personally. KOTFE also once again demonstrated that no studio can develop and release story focused content at a pace that will please it's players. AND... in KOTET... they did not succeed in moving the bar forward and increasing play of the game. So.. their record is hit and miss here.. but I do admire their willingness to think outside the box and the studio generally takes an approach of giving players more choices in what they play and how they play.

 

At the end of the day... an MMO audience is impossible to please simply because said audience is really a loose association of different special interest groups (often in open forum combat with each other) that want what they want... even at the expense of other interest groups. In this regard.. this studio gets poor marks for the way they go about expacs ---> focusing almost exclusively on one or a few key MMO segments of content at one time. But after more then 6 years... SWTOR players really should have become accustomed to, and adapted to, this in my view. Players simply digging in on their personal wants/needs is not productive for them, or for their fellow players. And yes.. this does create more drama and emotion then is really needed or warranted.. but it is what it is.

Edited by Andryah
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I

Players move around so much now days among the popular MMOs, and they take their memes and rhetoric with them everywhere they go.. and it is infectious to a certain degree because some players love a good "bandwagon" and have no real opinions of their own.. and need others to tell them how to feel about anything and everything.

Like those regarding 5.x gearing, the conquest changes, etc.

Edited by olagatonjedi
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