Heals weaker in Warzones - What's up?

[Jackalrat]

Okay, so I am playing a Sage around 45.

 

Inside of battlegrounds, bolstered to 50 and what have you, my 2.5s heal never seems to be more than 1700-1900 no matter what my gear is like.

 

Outside, at level 43, it never heals less than 2k, sometimes close to 2.5k non-crit. Please explain why I do -more- damage in warzones than outside, but less healing? Seriously, does this game need even MORE reasons not to heal? All heals just passively 10-20% weaker in PvP seems like a terrible idea, and I'm hoping this is some sort of mistake.

[Jackalrat]

Just to verify, my spells clearly do more damage in warzones than outside. Only the healing is weaker inside warzones.

 

Seems really stupid. >_>

[malignment]

I think it's because without it healing would be OP.

 

Also, even at lvl 34 I heal for more in Warzones with bolster than outside.

[Jooji]

Without the debuff we'd be op in warzones. As is I can solo any ac as a healer.

[-Shadowfist-]

I think someone mentioned a 30% heal nerf in warzones...

 

I honestly have to support that... There's a mercenary/operative combo on our server that was taking on 5 v 2 and coming out on top over and over. Even staying "on" them with stuns/interrupts/etc didn't matter, it only took one heal to get through and boom, over half their hp was back.

 

Was OP as hell.

[CapuchinSeven]

30% debuff in PVP to healing which bad healers whine about (not you OP, just saying they are bad), the fact is that a healer can't make a team own simply by lolling up and down the map spamming powerful heals and being as unkillable as a raid boss.

 

Your tanks HAVE to do their jobs, guarding and using taunts and challenge (which interestingly reduce damage to the friendly target by..... 30%!)

[Warsouls]

30% debuff in PVP to healing which bad healers whine about (not you OP, just saying they are bad), the fact is that a healer can't make a team own simply by lolling up and down the map spamming powerful heals and being as unkillable as a raid boss.

 

Your tanks HAVE to do their jobs, guarding and using taunts and challenge (which interestingly reduce damage to the friendly target by..... 30%!)

 

 

 

To bad this hardly ever happens. I never have guard on me unless i am running with a guild mate. Ill finish this argument in a second.

 

You are right; if a healer wasnt 30% nerfed they might be overpowered. But the nerf is based on another player guarding the healer or using there taunts on ranged burst dps to decrease their damage. If i am not guarded or if a ranged dps is not taunted . I can not out heal their damage. I can only last a little longer than maybe someone with out heals. Remember Sages have LONG cast times and 2 channeled heal spells. Easy to interupt.

 

Now i am level 50. I have 5 pieces of my champions force set and my expertise is about 250. Gives me roughly 5% bonus in pvp.

 

I dont want to hope another class plays their class right so i can play mine. Thats seems kinda shortsided doesnt it? I mean i get the principal behind it and the theory sounds good. But in practice it doesnt work well.

 

Now the one question i will ask is. Whats wrong with a healer keeping himself alive against a dps? isnt that healer now only healing them selves and unable to heal someone else. remember i cant heal myself whilke running. So i cant run with the ball and heal myself to victory. We have One instant heal, its a HoT and its nerfed 30%.

 

Isnt this a fair scenario? I guess not. I guess a dps class should just be able to kill a healer , unless that healer has help, but than isnt that 2v1 not 1v1?

 

This is where the healing nerf ( guard+ taunt ) crap doesnt make sense to me.

 

You know i read your post again, and i decided your not very bright. Healers can not run anywhere and heal. I am 50 i get one heal that i can cast while moving; its a HoT, its 30% nefed, and its got a long GCD. You are not completely stupid because you at least know about Guard and Taunt. But you are ignorant to how healing works in this game.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Warsouls

[mogishu]

To bad this hardly ever happens. I never have guard on me unless i am running with a guild mate. Ill finish this argument in a second.

 

You are right; if a healer wasnt 30% nerfed they might be overpowered. But the nerf is based on another player guarding the healer or using there taunts on ranged burst dps to decrease their damage. If i am not guarded or if a ranged dps is not taunted . I can not out heal their damage. I can only last a little longer than maybe someone with out heals. Remember Sages have LONG cast times and 2 channeled heal spells. Easy to interupt.

 

Now i am level 50. I have 5 pieces of my champions force set and my expertise is about 250. Gives me roughly 5% bonus in pvp.

 

I dont want to hope another class plays their class right so i can play mine. Thats seems kinda shortsided doesnt it? I mean i get the principal behind it and the theory sounds good. But in practice it doesnt work well.

 

Now the one question i will ask is. Whats wrong with a healer keeping himself alive against a dps? isnt that healer now only healing them selves and unable to heal someone else. remember i cant heal myself whilke running. So i cant run with the ball and heal myself to victory. We have One instant heal, its a HoT and its nerfed 30%.

 

Isnt this a fair scenario? I guess not. I guess a dps class should just be able to kill a healer , unless that healer has help, but than isnt that 2v1 not 1v1?

 

This is where the healing nerf ( guard+ taunt ) crap doesnt make sense to me.

 

Sorry man its not your fault. Its the all the players out there that came from WoW and just want to HK farm because that was all they did in before. Seriously WoW promoted HK farming and made BG's become a kill fest rather then objective play. That is what your running into imo.

 

The 30% nerf I think was a good idea it keeps any healer from being the deciding factor on the game. It actually promotes team work because the healers need team work to be effective.

 

It sucks right now because a large amount of players do not play the warzones with team work in mind. They just kill kill kill trying to top charts.

 

My suggestion is queue with some friends and work with them or just wait it out for the community to adjust to the different style of PvP in SWTOR.

[Warsouls]

All its really going to do is stop healers from PvPing. Which will mean no reason to guard. Why would a tank guard something he wont get healed by? People are inherently selfish.

 

There goes your team play. And now its back to zerg killing. I understand the principal behind it, i do. But i think its unrewarding for the healer. I think it would be more fun being a dps than instead of trying to heal.

 

No healers, no real reason for tanks, and so on and so on.

 

Are you getting where i am going with this ?

[Teabaker]

Heal would be completely OP without that Debuff. Do you want to have Healers like the one in WoW Wotlk?

[Munx]

I regularly pvp with a skilled healer, and despite these 30% you lose he still easily gets 400k healed, and its more or less unkillable 1v1.. If anything it should be discussed if the 30% loss healing should be higher for pvp.

 

Just saying.

[ColdLogic]

I regularly pvp with a skilled healer, and despite these 30% you lose he still easily gets 400k healed, and its more or less unkillable 1v1.. If anything it should be discussed if the 30% loss healing should be higher for pvp.

 

Just saying.

 

Munx what you're saying is ludicrous. Healing is fine where it is. You sound like a dps who got outclassed by a skilled healer despite his 30% cripple and your dmg boost the way you are talking.

[Scelerant]

They are strong enough as is, I have a "leave every warzone with more than 2 level 50 healers" position because as in every game healing ruins PvP because beefing up damage reduction is a cure against DPS but there is no cure for healing.

 

Yeah omg there is trauma, but a 30% reduction only deals with the total heal output, not the idiotic decision to not have healing school lockdowns so that it is impossible to shut down a healer without filling their resolve bar at which point they just spam themselves to full.

 

A turret BH takes more skill than a healer in this game.

[Prophetic]

I regularly pvp with a skilled healer, and despite these 30% you lose he still easily gets 400k healed, and its more or less unkillable 1v1.. If anything it should be discussed if the 30% loss healing should be higher for pvp.

 

Just saying.

 

In 1 vs. 1, the chance of either party winning should be equal. If the healer is spending all of his time healing, then he's definintely not killing you. Try throwing out a stun or an interrupt or something. Honestly.

 

I think a healer should be able to keep themself healed indefinitely while being attacked by a single opponent, since the trade-off is that he can't do anything else besides keep his own life up. The second he moves to attack, though, the balance shifts. Anytime the healer is outnumbered, though, then he should die unless he's particularly tricky.

 

Same with 2 vs. 2 and 3 vs. 3, each team should have an equal chance of killing each other, regardless of the presence of healers. I think the debuff allows this, since healers have to pick their targets and manage their energy more carefully, while their teammates have to actually guard the healer or peel DPS off them.

 

In other words, this was a great move for coordinated team-based PvP (which this should be), but a horrible move for PuGs.

 

And this is coming from a dedicated Scoundrel Healer.

[Xippin]

They are strong enough as is, I have a "leave every warzone with more than 2 level 50 healers" position because as in every game healing ruins PvP because beefing up damage reduction is a cure against DPS but there is no cure for healing.

 

Yeah omg there is trauma, but a 30% reduction only deals with the total heal output, not the idiotic decision to not have healing school lockdowns so that it is impossible to shut down a healer without filling their resolve bar at which point they just spam themselves to full.

 

A turret BH takes more skill than a healer in this game.

 

LOL, i don't know what game you are playing. I'm a 37 Smuggler(Heal spec'd) and my heals no where compare to a SINGLE dps hitting me in a WZ. You don't even have to stunlock me, a single interrupt will completely screw me because the biggest heal I have EVER seen in a WZ was 3k(and that's a 2 second cast), but I'm constantly being hit for 4k+. The 30% healing debuff is just fine, learn to play your class. I have only 2 stun/CC options, one being on a 45 second cooldown (30 if talented, which I don't have at my level) and the other is a 1:30 second cooldown. So, if you struggle to burn a healer down by yourself as a dps, my suggestion is reroll because you weren't good in the first place.

 

On the reverse side, i've killed 40+ healers with my BH Tank 1 vs 1 in WZ's with smart CC/interrupts relatively easily. Learn to play your class and I promise you, you wouldn't have an issue killing a healer in pvp...unless they actually have people protecting them, in which case it's WORKING AS INTENDED!

[Scelerant]

In 1 vs. 1, the chance of either party winning should be equal. If the healer is spending all of his time healing, then he's definintely not killing you. Try throwing out a stun or an interrupt or something. Honestly.

 

I think a healer should be able to keep themself healed indefinitely while being attacked by a single opponent, since the trade-off is that he can't do anything else besides keep his own life up. The second he moves to attack, though, the balance shifts. Anytime the healer is outnumbered, though, then he should die unless he's particularly tricky.

 

Same with 2 vs. 2 and 3 vs. 3, each team should have an equal chance of killing each other, regardless of the presence of healers. I think the debuff allows this, since healers have to pick their targets and manage their energy more carefully, while their teammates have to actually guard the healer or peel DPS off them.

 

In other words, this was a great move for coordinated team-based PvP (which this should be), but a horrible move for PuGs.

 

And this is coming from a dedicated Scoundrel Healer.

 

That works out fine with 1 v 1, the trouble is when you get multiple healers on a ball carrier in huttball for instance, who then becomes unkillable when you combine it with every healer having knockbacks, stuns, etc.

In essence, you'll need to either kill or knock away every healer, then you can start killing the carrier in the time that takes, the carrier should be in the goal zone. When you add to it that idiots blow short term CC on a carrier and fill his/her resolve you're more or less screwed if the opposition has 2 - 3 healers.

 

And to the level 37 who responded to my last post: I clearly stated that I spoke of level 50 healers not lowbies. Sure man, say that I need to l 2 P, but you need to learn 2 READ. You do realize that there is no such thing as a "school lockdown" so if your one heal gets interrupted, use a different one, that one get interrupted too, use a third one. I do love interrupting you guys though and watch you stand around like idiots for 3+ seconds instead of instantly hitting a different heal.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Scelerant

[Prophetic]

That works out fine with 1 v 1, the trouble is when you get multiple healers on a ball carrier in huttball for instance, who then becomes unkillable when you combine it with every healer having knockbacks, stuns, etc.

In essence, you'll need to either kill or knock away every healer, then you can start killing the carrier in the time that takes, the carrier should be in the goal zone. When you add to it that idiots blow short term CC on a carrier and fill his/her resolve you're more or less screwed if the opposition has 2 - 3 healers.

 

Yeah, I admit, Huttball is kind of a different beast. In normal PvP, if there're multiple healers, you kind of CC the ones you can and focus them one at a time, since they can still only do so much damage to you while you're forcing them to heal up. Honestly, though, in Huttball, if you're playing as a team towards the objective, then multiple healers shouldn't be a problem. Grappling hooks, force knockbacks, stuns, holds, chokes, there're tons of things to stop a person from scoring with the ball. Granted, it might not kill the ball carrier, but the funny thing about Huttball is that you just have to stop him from reaching the goal most of the time.

 

And, honestly, I'd love to see even 3 healers try to keep the ball carrier alive when I ambush him with all of my stuns when he's standing on an incinerator. Flashbang -> Dirty Kick -> Tendon Blast (specced for 2 second immobilize with slow) while he's crossing almost always results in a toasted Sith. Teaches people to pass the ball REAL damn quick. Or it should...some people are pretty dense.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Prophetic

[Senefera]

Huttball is an absolute pain to heal in against a competent team. There's so much LOS it's crazy!

Stop focusing on the ball carrier and knockback his healers into the pit. Takes a good 30 seconds to get out of there and back in a good position, especially if you have dps to avoid. While the healers are trying to get back in LOS go pew pew on carrier as much as you want. Win.

[Prophetic]

Huttball is an absolute pain to heal in against a competent team. There's so much LOS it's crazy!

Stop focusing on the ball carrier and knockback his healers into the pit. Takes a good 30 seconds to get out of there and back in a good position, especially if you have dps to avoid. While the healers are trying to get back in LOS go pew pew on carrier as much as you want. Win.

 

Seconded.

 

I can't tell you how frustrating it is to get knocked into that stupid pit.

[Dreadspectre]

There is a 30% debuff in warzones for healing. Hilariously enough even with that in effect, I see HP bars come back in monster chunks from the major heal spells. I shudder to think what would happen if they removed the debuff.

[Guardiansage]

We had 4 healers in one huttball game, me being one and with that we barely managed to keep the carrier alive with sith on him, we were organized and good though with ccs, i force lifted a dpser i saw use his trinket and the ball carrier was usually a tank so it went pretty well.

 

But the second 2-3 dps focused a healer.... we dropped pretty fast.

 

Bounty hunters and inquisitors and sith marauders (from a republic point of view here) constantly hit 3-5k, just constantly, nonstop and our 2.5 sec cast heal does 1.8-2.1k typically non crit so just think about that.

 

In 2.5 sec any 50 inquisitor or bounty hunter or marauder will have our dps down 60% on top of all the CCs they can dish out.

[Khoranth]

Okay, so I am playing a Sage around 45.

 

Inside of battlegrounds, bolstered to 50 and what have you, my 2.5s heal never seems to be more than 1700-1900 no matter what my gear is like.

 

Outside, at level 43, it never heals less than 2k, sometimes close to 2.5k non-crit. Please explain why I do -more- damage in warzones than outside, but less healing? Seriously, does this game need even MORE reasons not to heal? All heals just passively 10-20% weaker in PvP seems like a terrible idea, and I'm hoping this is some sort of mistake.

 

Basically, only queue as a healer if you are with a premade with good players who will babysit you and keep you safe.

 

If you want to queue warzones solo, don't queue as a healer, no one helps you, and a healer is unplayable without alot of babysitting.

[IronFirewind]

I think someone mentioned a 30% heal nerf in warzones...

 

I honestly have to support that... There's a mercenary/operative combo on our server that was taking on 5 v 2 and coming out on top over and over. Even staying "on" them with stuns/interrupts/etc didn't matter, it only took one heal to get through and boom, over half their hp was back.

 

Was OP as hell.

 

I did this with a Guardian friend on my Scoundrel, it was hilarious and proves that a coordinated team will always beat a team of randoms.

 

Also did the same thing with said friend on my Sage that was probably more hilarious because at one point I had 3 people on me when they didn't even think of punting me out of guard range.

 

Basically it was a case of them being too stupid to punt me out of guard range, combined with them not protecting their Sorc and coordinated CC over vent so that we were only having to fight 2 people from that group at a time at any one time.

 

One thing you need to remember is that they might have been double medipacking. PvP medipacks and regular Medipacks share separate CDs so combining one with a heal gives insane spike healing.

 

Scoundrels/Operaatives are probably the best PvP healers in the game due to their class mechanics also giving some crazy spike healing on "OHSHI-" moments.

 

The healer might also have been using +Crit Adrenals/Trinkets to boost the power of Crit Heals. SC/OPs also have quite a few instant cast heals (and so they can't be interrupted).

 

Also never underestimate the power of vent/ts. A group that can coordinate it's CC and damage has a massive advantage over a bunch of randoms running off to fight their own targets and no way of telling the group who they CC'd

[Stratoforce]

Healing is atrocious in PvP so people can herpaderp damage tunnel vision people down. Even with premades, healing only becomes 'strong' when you got 3 healers holding hands. Which still doesn't stop my guild scoundrel and sages from gibbing them.

[Choomba]

I dont want to hope another class plays their class right so i can play mine.

 

Going in as my sig !