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Do Something About MM Flashpoints


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Dear Bioware,

 

I'm one of the many subsciber to the SWTOR game. I have been playing and paying my regards since 2013 with subs. I'm truly sad about the current situation of the game. Whenever I go to fleet, I'd see "TR MATS" - "WTS/WTB" , "TR WIN" messages, guild announcements and sometimes daily sm ops announcements.

 

Before 4.0, we could have formed groups easily for HM ops, HM Flashpoints and even NIM ops (since the bosses were 5-10 level down).

 

Now look today: screw the hm/nim content for a sec, No one ever plays Master Mode Flashpoints anymore.

I have been begging in fleet chats for hours for a mm fp pop and guess what? No POP, Not even whispers for forming a group. Whats wrong with this game and player base? This isn't the SWTOR we know and love!

 

You should fix PVE side of the game ASAP. Starting with new operations and fixing Master Mode Flashpoint POPs. Veteren and SM Flashpoints are ok.

 

If you can't fix it by the lack of resources/developers, we understand your pain but at least buff our companions for "master-mode flashpoints only" so that we could solo them.

 

I just hope one of the dev team sees this.

Edited by iersoywp
Edited for specifying master mode fps
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Is your idea to make Master Mode flashpoints solo-able? Because if it is, hell no! The entire point of them is to be the hardest content available and buffing the companions for them to able to do them would kill the entire point of it, I'm fine with solo modes for players but MM needs to stay the way it is. Edited by FlameYOL
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If you're a dps, you're going to wait forever for master mode flashpoints to pop.

 

Personally, I think activity finder needs to be updated to tell us what flashpoint you're getting. Some days I don't feel the need to spend two hours in Manaan. Maybe I want to do Hammer Station or Athiss, just to get my weekly in.

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Well I would like to hear the reason you want to play them so bad. I can imagine its getting the achievements for them and that is exactly the issue. People have that already. CXP/Gear/UCs wise there are much better things to do than MM FPS.

 

People that are after achievements already have done all MM FPS long ago and there is no need or desire to que for them again. Maybe new people are trying these out, but there really is no valid reason to do them. Decos drop from solo, there is no gear, no special CXP, no anything. I que for the MM FPS that comes out to finish the 25x achievement, nothing else. It really depends on what you are trying to gain in the game, but doing MM FPS doesnt really help you gain anything but the achievement.

 

The same goes for Uprisings, they are not run at all, people only do Fractured MM sometimes for the weekly. If Bioware wants people to play all parts of the game they should make it worth a while. People always do the activity from which they gain the most. Now its TR for mats, before it was bugged Fractured Uprising for CXP, before it were Chapters 1 and 2 on MM for cxp, before it was KP mobs before 1st boss for cxp and so on.

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The problem is that there is zero incentive to do MM FPs. But this is not a "limited to 5.x problem"

 

at launch and through 3.x FPs were a gateway to Ops; you had to run FPs to get some gear drops or at worst comms/crystals to buy gear so you could participate in Ops (if you wanted to).

 

4.x was the beginning of the end for that paradigm; when HM EV and HM KP dropped 12 of 14 BiS gear pieces (when they were the "priority operation"), any idiot could be carried through those Ops and geared up (heck I remember in my guild, some events we did offered prizes where the leadership would get the winner a character full set 224 by carrying that character). 4.x did have other incentives like decos and character specific achievements. So there was still some interest in participation.

 

Then 5.x hit and now any content could produce BiS gear given enough time. The ROI of running MM FPs became nil; why run a MM FP where failure is a possibility, when I can run three VM FPs and get more CXP in the same time frame? And they all but removed the decos (still a chance but EXTREMELY small), and made achievements legacy wide.

 

But even with all that, there is another problem that has been since launch: at the end of a given content cycle's life, a player has gotten all they can from FPs, so the only reason to do them is because they feel like it. Even in 1.x 2.x and 3.x there came a point where we would be "converting" comms/crystals into credits (buying an item, waiting for it to bind, then selling it for credits), because we all already had the best available, so even then there was no reason to run MM FPs unless we felt like it.

 

My point is, that what you are experiencing is not limited to 5.x. Incentive to participate in any aspect of play becomes moot at the end of a content's life cycle. When 6.0 hits, there will be a bump in participation in all aspects of play...including MM FPs.

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I dunno about week nights because I only play on fridays, but I do get fairly consistent MM pops. Last night I did probably 5--6 of them. That's Qing as DPS. When I'm tanking I can get a pop in a matter of seconds if I announce that there's a tank in Q for MM and healers will get an insta Q in gen chat.

 

I'll often do the same thing as DPS. Say something like "248 DPS in MM Q, lets wreck it" or something silly. And that often causes a Q to pop.

 

That said Qs can be very very slow at times, and its easy to get impatient and do something else. MMs definitely need an incentive boost; I only do them for the fun of it.

Edited by RiChess
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Whenever I go to fleet, I'd see "TR MATS" - "WTS/WTB" , "TR WIN" messages, guild announcements and sometimes daily sm ops announcements.

 

You also see ppl advertising to click their referal for a few million credits! They should deal with that too!

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No one ever plays Master Mode Flashpoints anymore.

I have been begging in fleet chats for hours for a mm fp pop and guess what? No POP, Not even whispers for forming a group. Whats wrong with this game and player base?

 

Simple : People don't want "randoms" anymore. They simply distrust them, because they don't know mechanics. MM has become guild-only content now.

 

Even for OPs this is true : Guild run yesterday, happily explaining everything in voice chat, completely ignoring both "randoms" in chat who both didn't have any voice chat. And then saying "we must not play with randoms anymore", because they had no voice chat.

 

We already have a two-class-society here now. Those with voice chat and those without.

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If you're a dps, you're going to wait forever for master mode flashpoints to pop.

 

Personally, I think activity finder needs to be updated to tell us what flashpoint you're getting. Some days I don't feel the need to spend two hours in Manaan. Maybe I want to do Hammer Station or Athiss, just to get my weekly in.

 

You can pick which Flashpoint to queue for, just click on the list and select the ones you want and de-active the ones you don't want.

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Simple : People don't want "randoms" anymore. They simply distrust them, because they don't know mechanics. MM has become guild-only content now.

 

Even for OPs this is true : Guild run yesterday, happily explaining everything in voice chat, completely ignoring both "randoms" in chat who both didn't have any voice chat. And then saying "we must not play with randoms anymore", because they had no voice chat.

 

We already have a two-class-society here now. Those with voice chat and those without.

 

Its always been that way for OPS/raiding in any game. Outside of fully random GF runs, there's an expectation that you'll be in voice, because it makes it easier on everyone if everyone is on the same page comms wise. Especially as the content gets harder and more complex.

 

There are very few excuses for not being able to at least *be* in voice chat, you obviously have an internet connected computer that can run software, so its just you being lazy or difficult if you won't join voice. I fill in for other guild runs pretty often and the first thing I do is ask about voice chat. Takes 10s to slap the invite link into discord.

 

I have been a raid leader lots of times and I know the pain of trying to type out multi paragraph explanations to unresponsive people. Voice chat is a million times easier, and if someone can't make the effort to join, they're probably not the type of team oriented player I want in my raid.

Edited by RiChess
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Its always been that way for OPS/raiding in any game. Outside of fully random GF runs, there's an expectation that you'll be in voice, because it makes it easier on everyone if everyone is on the same page comms wise. Especially as the content gets harder and more complex.

 

There are very few excuses for not being able to at least *be* in voice chat, you obviously have an internet connected computer that can run software, so its just you being lazy or difficult if you won't join voice. I fill in for other guild runs pretty often and the first thing I do is ask about voice chat. Takes 10s to slap the invite link into discord.

 

I have been a raid leader lots of times and I know the pain of trying to type out multi paragraph explanations to unresponsive people. Voice chat is a million times easier, and if someone can't make the effort to join, they're probably not the type of team oriented player I want in my raid.

 

HM+ ops I completely agree. SM ops, honestly, I can't think of more than a handful of bosses that require more than a sentence or two of explanation. I assume Arik was referring to a SM pug, and in that case, really you shouldn't require voice at all (honestly, even the 8th person is probably just needed to queue in and get the bonus not because you need it to clear the boss).

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There are very few excuses for not being able to at least *be* in voice chat, you obviously have an internet connected computer that can run software, so its just you being lazy or difficult if you won't join voice. I fill in for other guild runs pretty often and the first thing I do is ask about voice chat. Takes 10s to slap the invite link into discord.

 

I have been a raid leader lots of times and I know the pain of trying to type out multi paragraph explanations to unresponsive people. Voice chat is a million times easier, and if someone can't make the effort to join, they're probably not the type of team oriented player I want in my raid.

 

If have trouble getting groups together for Ops - this is the reason right here. It should be enough to have guides for the OPs on hand ( for SM at least), but few people seem to accept the statement "I can't use voice" as just that.

 

You don't need sound for any part of this game. There are subtitles, text in the chat box so you don't have to hear the cues in flashpoints or pvp, you can read them instead, but for group content outside of pugging there is a general expectation that you must have voice chat.

 

I'm more comfortable using GF for MM flashpoints, then trying to run with guildies because with GF you use text chat, no one expects you to be in voice.

 

It's intimidating enough to be the only first runner in an OP, without also being the only person who can't be in voice. Then you get attitudes like yours expressed constantly regarding how lazy and selfish people who aren't in voice, and I start feeling guilty because I can't be on voice, even when I don't screw anything up on a run.

 

I doubt I'm the only one with an inability to use voice chat, and this insistance on voice, when for SM at least just having a guide should be fine, is probably keeping more people than just me from trying out the harder types of group content.

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If have trouble getting groups together for Ops - this is the reason right here. It should be enough to have guides for the OPs on hand ( for SM at least), but few people seem to accept the statement "I can't use voice" as just that.

 

You don't need sound for any part of this game. There are subtitles, text in the chat box so you don't have to hear the cues in flashpoints or pvp, you can read them instead, but for group content outside of pugging there is a general expectation that you must have voice chat.

 

I'm more comfortable using GF for MM flashpoints, then trying to run with guildies because with GF you use text chat, no one expects you to be in voice.

 

It's intimidating enough to be the only first runner in an OP, without also being the only person who can't be in voice. Then you get attitudes like yours expressed constantly regarding how lazy and selfish people who aren't in voice, and I start feeling guilty because I can't be on voice, even when I don't screw anything up on a run.

 

I doubt I'm the only one with an inability to use voice chat, and this insistance on voice, when for SM at least just having a guide should be fine, is probably keeping more people than just me from trying out the harder types of group content.

 

I don't expect a group to be in voice for an MM flashpoint and as guildies and friends, we only get in for the social aspect. I used to queue for MM flashpoints and do a fair number of them; I don't do them much any more except running Foundry towards my Meatbag title. But with respect to raids:

 

There are approaches a group whose majority of members are in voice will decide to take in voice that won't be written down in a guide. For example, the decision to stack all the DPS on one tentacle in Terror and allocation of colours and roles in Operator IX. Dread Council kill order, and so on.

 

I did an SM Izax back in 5.8 and got in voice with some of the raid; the rest chose not to. I ended up running out of tethers in phase 3 when someone who wasn't in voice had picked up a tether (we weren't making the interrupt/DPS check). We were dead by the time I managed to type in chat 'pass me a tether', at which point I wrote 'Get in voice or don't pick up tethers'.

 

Sorry if I seemed callous, but do you have a reason why you can't get in voice? You don't have to talk, just listen. If your game lags horribly with more than one programme in the background running, I've always run Discord/Teamspeak on a separate platform especially for 16 man raids.

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Dear Bioware,

 

 

Before 4.0, we could have formed groups easily for HM ops, HM Flashpoints and even NIM ops (since the bosses were 5-10 level down).

 

Now look today: screw the hm/nim content for a sec, No one ever plays Master Mode Flashpoints anymore.

I have been begging in fleet chats for hours for a mm fp pop and guess what? No POP, Not even whispers for forming a group. Whats wrong with this game and player base? This isn't the SWTOR we know and love!

 

You should fix PVE side of the game ASAP. Starting with new operations and fixing Master Mode Flashpoint POPs. Veteren and SM Flashpoints are ok.

 

If you can't fix it by the lack of resources/developers, we understand your pain but at least buff our companions for "master-mode flashpoints only" so that we could solo them.

 

I just hope one of the dev team sees this.

 

Ok, I play on DM and I do get MM pops but sortof only in peak times. And if you are DPS you sometimes have to wait a long time. (And if when it finally pops people see umbara they usually all leave immeadiately but that is another subject :p)

 

In order to get fast pops for MM flashpoints you have to be tank or healer. if you take a look at role needed it is almost always one of these. On IMP side usually it seems tank missing on rep side healer.

 

Now I do like MM flashpoints and would support making them more attractive again. Currently they only have achievements going for them. For other purposes (eg CXP, Conquest they are not a good time investment). I however am against making them soloable.

 

To make them more appealing I would:

 

- Give better conquest rewards. There is one conquest week in which you have a bunch of MM FPs giving nice point amounts especially with bonus bosses. However in the vast majority of conquest weeks they are not a good time/reward investment.

 

Specifically:

1. MM FPs should give increased conquest points versus veteran flashpoints

2. Add the weeklies in again in every single conquest week

3. Give bonusses for all bonus bosses in mm fp's.

 

Give some better mats rewards

 

Eg like ranked pvp.

 

 

Decoration / Extra drops

 

Increase them significantly. Droprates for decorations or MM fp's exclusive loot is very low.

 

Cxp/components

 

Personally I think this is fina as is as I don't really need more CXP or UC's, but may be valid for increased participation for a lot of players.

 

And o yeah: tune down umbara maybe a bit. It is very frustrating to finally get a pop, then see everyone quit immeadiately on seeing its Umbara...

Edited by Morteistno
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Personally I think this is fina as is as I don't really need more CXP or UC's, but may be valid for increased participation for a lot of players.

 

And o yeah: tune down umbara maybe a bit. It is very frustrating to finally get a pop, then see everyone quit immeadiately on seeing its Umbara...

 

I agree with and disagree with this, the hardest part of Umbara (For me anyway) is the first boss. Whose idea was to have a boss that de-aggros from the tank every 3 seconds? As well as the lag, the rest of the FP is hard but I felt the difficulty was appropriate back when I did it, perhaps nerf just by a tiny percentage but not by much.

Edited by FlameYOL
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You don't have to talk, just listen..

 

This is the standard response I get every time I say I can't use voice. My hearing is poor, so no, I can't 'just listen'. When I say I can't use voice, I mean just that. There could be other physical reasons someone can't use voice, and not everone likes talking about their personal issues on-line.

 

Just take "Can't use voice' as a fact and stop making people justify that statement.

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There are very few excuses for not being able to at least *be* in voice chat, you obviously have an internet connected computer that can run software, so its just you being lazy or difficult if you won't join voice. I fill in for other guild runs pretty often and the first thing I do is ask about voice chat. Takes 10s to slap the invite link into discord.

 

I do know 1 person who is *completely* deaf and is playing SWTOR, and me, I'm nearly deaf on one ear.

 

So, while i can hear everyone, it's difficult for me, because everyone with grades of deafness is processing spoken words much more differently than healthy people.

 

Just as an example :

These steps are required for me :

1. Is is a sound ? Is it a voice ? Is it an animal's sound ?

2. Is it a noise ? Is it a word ? Is there an echo ?

3. Is is a word I know ? ( Fun song : "Celt" or "Sheba" by Mike Oldfield. Lots of invented words ! ;) )

4. Does this word fit into the given context ? ( Danger of mishearings ! )

 

Of course, having earphones on, this doesn't matter that much to me, but still ... While I'm concentrated on fighting, I can't listen. I'm not that able to do multitasking.

 

Without my hearing devices I'm likely to miss a lot of words in team meetings.

 

So, I'm so much better at writing and at reading, so, from my perspective, voice chat is mostly simple lazyness.

Of course, you can't type while being in combat, but I've been in 2.x raids which were going on almost without voice chat at all. And having that above mentioned deaf person being the raid leader.

And it worked.

 

Voice chat vs. letter chat is a bit like RTS vs. TBS.

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I do know 1 person who is *completely* deaf and is playing SWTOR, and me, I'm nearly deaf on one ear.

 

So, while i can hear everyone, it's difficult for me, because everyone with grades of deafness is processing spoken words much more differently than healthy people.

 

Just as an example :

These steps are required for me :

1. Is is a sound ? Is it a voice ? Is it an animal's sound ?

2. Is it a noise ? Is it a word ? Is there an echo ?

3. Is is a word I know ? ( Fun song : "Celt" or "Sheba" by Mike Oldfield. Lots of invented words ! ;) )

4. Does this word fit into the given context ? ( Danger of mishearings ! )

 

Of course, having earphones on, this doesn't matter that much to me, but still ... While I'm concentrated on fighting, I can't listen. I'm not that able to do multitasking.

 

Without my hearing devices I'm likely to miss a lot of words in team meetings.

 

So, I'm so much better at writing and at reading, so, from my perspective, voice chat is mostly simple lazyness.

Of course, you can't type while being in combat, but I've been in 2.x raids which were going on almost without voice chat at all. And having that above mentioned deaf person being the raid leader.

And it worked.

 

Voice chat vs. letter chat is a bit like RTS vs. TBS.

 

Hearing impaired/deaf would fall under "very few excuses" for me. If someone in my raid told me they couldn't use voice due to that, I'd go out of my way to accommodate them (if they were a good player that was there to kick *** that is).

 

This is the standard response I get every time I say I can't use voice. My hearing is poor, so no, I can't 'just listen'. When I say I can't use voice, I mean just that. There could be other physical reasons someone can't use voice, and not everone likes talking about their personal issues on-line.

 

Just take "Can't use voice' as a fact and stop making people justify that statement.

 

I think its fair to ask "why". You're participating in a team, and IMO it's a bit rude to give a flat statement and then act insulted when people are curious. When someone tells me they can't use voice, my first thought is that they are having issues with discord or their computer, and maybe I can help them fix it. Which has been the case most times I've asked, and I've helped a lot of people fix their issue.

 

If you refuse to tell people you're hearing impaired because it makes you uncomfortable, then you should also be prepared to deal with whatever negative reaction you get.

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I do not use voice chat, I cant, I do not like headphones, and I just do not get used with them, ears start sweat right when I put them, its discusting and I also cant use speakers, I play volume down, becouse 2m from my desk my 3 year old daughter sleep, in other room. I cant keep volume up. There are many reasons why people cant use voice. I am agree tho, that for opses, it make explaining easyer and its good to have, so those rare times I do ops these days, I use headphones, but I really, really hate them . thats why I do not do opses anymore.
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I do not use voice chat, I cant, I do not like headphones, and I just do not get used with them, ears start sweat right when I put them, its discusting and I also cant use speakers, I play volume down, becouse 2m from my desk my 3 year old daughter sleep, in other room. I cant keep volume up. There are many reasons why people cant use voice. I am agree tho, that for opses, it make explaining easyer and its good to have, so those rare times I do ops these days, I use headphones, but I really, really hate them . thats why I do not do opses anymore.

 

Ear buds and a desktop mic would probably be waayyyyy more comfortable for you if you're using over/on ear headphones.

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I agree with and disagree with this, the hardest part of Umbara (For me anyway) is the first boss. Whose idea was to have a boss that de-aggros from the tank every 3 seconds? As well as the lag, the rest of the FP is hard but I felt the difficulty was appropriate back when I did it, perhaps nerf just by a tiny percentage but not by much.

 

The problem with it is that a very large percentage of players who queue for it immeadiately leave team when it pops. They will not even try (anymore), I am not disputing that a good group can do it, but as is 1. umbara has become something you can only run with a prebuilt group of people that want to on mm. 2. since mm fp pug pop is already taking long it sucks double as it is almost always immeadiately abandoned so you can start queuing from scratch.

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The problem with it is that a very large percentage of players who queue for it immeadiately leave team when it pops. They will not even try (anymore), I am not disputing that a good group can do it, but as is 1. umbara has become something you can only run with a prebuilt group of people that want to on mm. 2. since mm fp pug pop is already taking long it sucks double as it is almost always immeadiately abandoned so you can start queuing from scratch.

 

I can relate to the feeling, but again. If someone doesn't want to do it, they can just no select it, yeah you'll lose the daily reward if you haven't done it already. They shouldn't overnerf it IMO, a little bit perhaps, and also fix the lag in the first part but let's not turn it into a cake-walk, there is nothing wrong with hard content. Perhaps though, Bioware could put Umbara, and a few others, into a new category of flashpoints? because there is a huge disparity between something like Athiss or Hammer Station to Umbara/ Blood hunt.

Edited by FlameYOL
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I agree with and disagree with this, the hardest part of Umbara (For me anyway) is the first boss. Whose idea was to have a boss that de-aggros from the tank every 3 seconds? As well as the lag, the rest of the FP is hard but I felt the difficulty was appropriate back when I did it, perhaps nerf just by a tiny percentage but not by much.

 

You should be tanking the assasin and should have no issues with that since the dps should be on the mechanic. I havent dont this FPS since it launched (and we ran it 25 times) but I do remember that one.

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I can relate to the feeling, but again. If someone doesn't want to do it, they can just no select it, yeah you'll lose the daily reward if you haven't done it already.

 

Actually, there is a pretty easy way to not get Umbara/Chiss/Nathema but still getting the daily bonus: just remove some of your gear before you queue up, to make sure that your gear score is below 242. Once you got a pop, you can put the gear back on. EZ.

Edited by mrwayn
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You should be tanking the assasin and should have no issues with that since the dps should be on the mechanic. I havent dont this FPS since it launched (and we ran it 25 times) but I do remember that one.

 

I know the mechanics, in master however you have to hold them both. The Engineer does a lot of damage to the team if you just let him loose, so you've got to constantly attack him as well as taunt him to make sure you've got the aggro, the problem is he de-aggros every 3 seconds so you've got to focus on him first.

 

Actually, there is a pretty easy way to not get Umbara/Chiss/Nathema but still getting the daily bonus: just remove some of your gear before you queue up, to make sure that your gear score is below 242. Once you got a pop, you can put the gear back on. EZ.

 

Ah, I never thought about it. Good to know, this is helpful advice for those who don't want to do those flashpoints.

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