This game is not dying

[Batwer]

There were 218 servers after launch...

LOL So everything was wrong from the beginning. 3 or 4 per language would have been enough. PvP / RP and possibly 2 for PVE. Too many servers. The people are spreading. Note that there are too few people (as distributed.) And therefore go away again. Or only 2 per language / coast. Servers for PVP and RP would not have been needed. Only different instances. Usually you do it the other way round too. Only a handful of servers. If the game has many players then slowly 1-2 more, etc.

 

So seriously ... Who develops something without thinking.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Batwer

[Kiesu]

LOL So everything was wrong from the beginning. 3 or 4 per language would have been enough. PvP / RP and possibly 2 for PVE. Too many servers. The people are spreading. Note that there are too few people (as distributed.) And therefore go away again. Or only 2 per language / coast. Servers for PVP and RP would not have been needed. Only different instances. Usually you do it the other way round too. Only a handful of servers. If the game has many players then slowly 1-2 more, etc.

 

So seriously ... Who develops something without thinking.

Nah, at launch we had full servers left and right.

The problem with that was SWTOR chose the most inflexible method of server forming, which means everything you had was tied to that one server you picked, server transfers were not available, legacy was not a thing, there was no cross-server que functions... So when the initial wave of players finally scattered, we were left with a bunch of half full servers with no possibility of cross server transfer or anything for years before legacy and CM came around and relieved the issue a bit.

It was their oversight to not put any kind of transfer services in place from the beginning.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Kiesu

[TUXs]

LOL So everything was wrong from the beginning. 3 or 4 per language would have been enough. PvP / RP and possibly 2 for PVE. Too many servers. The people are spreading. Note that there are too few people (as distributed.) And therefore go away again. Or only 2 per language / coast. Servers for PVP and RP would not have been needed. Only different instances. Usually you do it the other way round too. Only a handful of servers. If the game has many players then slowly 1-2 more, etc.

 

So seriously ... Who develops something without thinking.

Quite a lot has changed since them - we didn't have different instances of planets. We had ONE Tatooine, ONE Fleet...they had to open more and more servers because there was a queue to log in to the game that went for HOURS...you'd get home, log on to SWTOR and hope that in 2-3 hours you'd be towards the top...and God forbid you ever crashed...you'd be back at the end of the line. Restarting your computer was absolutely out of the question as well, because you faced a two+ hour wait if you did.

 

The launch of SWTOR was botched badly by Bioware and EA (I assumed because it was rushed to fill the SWG gap). All of these issues were eventually addressed correctly, but the growing pains came with a heavy toll in players. The game we have today is light-years ahead of what we had at launch.

It was their oversight to not put any kind of transfer services in place from the beginning.

Isn't this the truth...this is the biggest mistake I can think of in designing an MMO...assuming players won't want to ever transfer. Back at launch, it was an even BIGGER issue because of the sheer number of servers and the fact that leveling was painfully slow - by the time you found your friends from [insert another game here], you had weeks or months invested into a character that was painful to give up.

Edited July 25, 2018 by TUXs

[Andryah]

LOL So everything was wrong from the beginning. 3 or 4 per language would have been enough. PvP / RP and possibly 2 for PVE. Too many servers. The people are spreading. Note that there are too few people (as distributed.) And therefore go away again. Or only 2 per language / coast. Servers for PVP and RP would not have been needed. Only different instances. Usually you do it the other way round too. Only a handful of servers. If the game has many players then slowly 1-2 more, etc.

 

So seriously ... Who develops something without thinking.

 

Before shooting off such pejoratives.. a little history is in order. This MMO is 6.5 years old now, and history matters, as there is context in the history.

 

A) The launch servers were quite small compared to today's servers (it appears they were VERY small by MMO standards, which was a bad move), and as such.. they needed a truck ton of them for all the players that purchased the game and would load it and play at least the first 30 days since it came with a 30 day sub. So many players wanted into the servers, they had long queues at launch and the studio had to add several dozen additional servers in NA and also in EU just to get the login queues down to a manageable level.

 

B) A lot of players of course tried it, felt they either did not like it, or they raced through content and hit a wall at cap level (because the studio actually though players would take their time and play multiple classes, and this would give them some time to begin rolling out content patches). And of course a lot of players thought somehow they were getting KOTOR-3 here and when they found themselves disappointed, and not being avid MMO players to begin with.. quickly tossed the game aside and moved on.

 

C) The studio eventually did a first round consolidation of servers as the populations dropped fairly quickly over the first few months. But they took too long to do so.. and that caused players to either re-roll (there was no server transfer feature in the first 9 months) on another server or just quit. After the server consolidation we ended up with just a couple dozen servers between EU and NA, and the APAC servers were slated for closing. Note: these new servers were larger capacity servers (about 5X what the old servers were) and could be configured for more capacity if needed (see E below).

 

D) Population appeared to be pretty stable in the ~500K active players range after consolidations and the servers were generally doing OK.. though the PvP rule set servers always suffered from faster declines in populations. Now some players insist that this sort of fall off in population = game is dead. Fact is though.. in the 2010 to present day in the MMO genre, post launch attrition typically runs 70-80% in the first year... so this actually is about the norm for the genre in late 2012. The days of people loading an MMO and then just grinding away on it for years has largely gone the way of the DoDo Bird.

 

E) 4.0 released and so many people came back to the game that they once again had log-in queues on the existing servers, and the studio had to quickly scramble and reconfigure several of the more popular servers for higher capacity to handle the load.

 

F) Since the shiny on 4.0 wore off... and the studio doubled down on solo friendly with 5.0 and made some unpopular changes in gearing in 5.0..... players began to leave again. This departure cycle has been more persistent for several reasons 1) game just getting old for many veterans, so they moved on 2) lack of group content turned off those who prefer end game group content only, so they left. 3) PvP continued it's long slow population decline, which honestly had been going on for years already. 4) and probably most significantly... the pace of new content continued to slow down since 5.0 was released.. and for some MMO players.. that triggers the rip-cord to bail out.

 

G) with the persistent decline in active players since 5.0, the studio did another server consolidation recently. They ran nearly a year of low cost server transfers leading up to this consolidation to allow players freedom to move around, and that put the final nail in the coffin on the old PvP servers and a couple of other less popular ones in the lead up to the consolidation. It is possible that they were slow to consolidate this last cycle as they wanted to see where players would settle on their own in the lead-up to the consolidations, rather then just force move everyone. And this brings us to today.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Andryah

[Lhancelot]

This departure cycle has been more persistent for several reasons 1) game just getting old for many veterans, so they moved on 2) lack of group content turned off those who prefer end game group content only, so they left. 3) PvP continued it's long slow population decline, which honestly had been going on for years already. 4) and probably most significantly... the pace of new content continued to slow down since 5.0 was released.. and for some MMO players.. that triggers the rip-cord to bail out.

 

I am going to be selfish here, and say what I wish they'd do.

 

1. Focus on class balance, make PVP priority number one. PVP is repeatable content, people always enjoy fighting other players and this is one reason WOW has always been so successful and popular with it's focus on PVP.

 

2. Focus on PVE creating new dungeons! I mean... FPs and OPs. Who doesn't love new dungeons, new content, new loots? These two factors are what make MMOs successful.

[ExarSun]

I am going to be selfish here, and say what I wish they'd do.

 

1. Focus on class balance, make PVP priority number one. PVP is repeatable content, people always enjoy fighting other players and this is one reason WOW has always been so successful and popular with it's focus on PVP.

 

2. Focus on PVE creating new dungeons! I mean... FPs and OPs. Who doesn't love new dungeons, new content, new loots? These two factors are what make MMOs successful.

 

They did just that after 5.0. Only FPs and 1 OPS, PvP updates and class balance, maps. How is that going for the game? Pretty good rignt lol?? how about NO.....What I wish they did is to stop listen to vocal minorities what they want, but its too late for that as well.

[Lhancelot]

They did just that after 5.0. Only FPs and 1 OPS, PvP updates and class balance, maps. How is that going for the game? Pretty good rignt lol?? how about NO.....What I wish they did is to stop listen to vocal minorities what they want, but its too late for that as well.

 

I guess it's a matter of perspective. If you consider 5.0 the godsend patch for PVP and PVE I'd disagree. They totally dismantled the best PVP gearing system with 5.0 to start with. No clue what you drinking but I'd like some.

[Vember]

I guess it's a matter of perspective. If you consider 5.0 the godsend patch for PVP and PVE I'd disagree. They totally dismantled the best PVP gearing system with 5.0 to start with. No clue what you drinking but I'd like some.

 

Oh I disagree. While I didn't much care for the rng aspect of the crate system, I much preferred that style of gearing to the old way.

[TUXs]

Oh I disagree. While I didn't much care for the rng aspect of the crate system, I much preferred that style of gearing to the old way.

While I agree, I still think PvPers get shafted currently. Gear shouldn't be a factor in PvP at all. I do like that PvEers can get BiS gear no matter how they play though - that is one of the best changes yet.

[TrixxieTriss]

While I agree, I still think PvPers get shafted currently. Gear shouldn't be a factor in PvP at all. I do like that PvEers can get BiS gear no matter how they play though - that is one of the best changes yet.

 

Gear shouldn’t even be a thing in pvp. The easiest solution at this point is to just raise Bolster to 252 and everyone will have similar gear rating, wether it’s 230 or 248. This way it doesn’t infringe on any other part of the game. Gear will still matter for pve content, but not for pvp.

 

Anyone who says they only pvp and nothing else, doesn’t play to grind gear or to get rewards. They play for the combat vs combat of it. They don’t want to play gear wars. If you need gear progression to incentivise you to play pvp, then you aren’t playing for the a skilled combat experience, you just want to be a gear god.

 

If you play multiple aspects of the game, then gear does matter, so you will still get a gear grind incentive for playing pvp or pve because I’m not advocating they remove the current gearing system in the game, just make it so gear doesn’t matter while playing pvp. You could still gear up in pvp for other parts of the game.

 

(I’m using the term “you” to speak to a wider audience, I’m not focusing on you Tux, even though I’ve replied to your post)

[TrixxieTriss]

Oh I disagree. While I didn't much care for the rng aspect of the crate system, I much preferred that style of gearing to the old way.

 

I’ve yet to meet a dedicated pvper who prefers this system over the old pvp gearing system.

[TrixxieTriss]

This departure cycle has been more persistent for several reasons 1) game just getting old for many veterans, so they moved on 2) lack of group content turned off those who prefer end game group content only, so they left. 3) PvP continued it's long slow population decline, which honestly had been going on for years already. 4) and probably most significantly... the pace of new content continued to slow down since 5.0 was released.. and for some MMO players.. that triggers the rip-cord to bail out.

 

I agree with most of this ^^

 

(Big post sorry, it got away from me)

 

As someone who came from WoW 6-7 years ago to play swtor, the 2 biggest draw cards were it being a WoW based MMO and it being SW. (I know this was a big reason for all of my friends and a lot of old guildies).

 

After the Hutt Cartel expansion, Bioware changed tact with the game and tried to reinvent it as a solo story game. This made lots of MMO players mad because it essentially spilt us up from each other if you wanted to play the story part of the game. We couldn’t do it in a group and complete it, we had to do it solo or if we did group, each person had to do their own version. So for myself and my wife who use to have date night and play together, the game became less fun and tedious doing all content twice to get to the same point.

 

The move to a single player game mode also took resources away from any group content development, which meant any that was added felt like an after thought and received badly by MMO based players. Essentially the pve players like raiders became marginalised the same as the pvp community had been for many years previous. I’ll admit at the time I was saying “sucked in”, now you know how pvpers have felt for the last few years because every time pvpers had opened their mouths for some love, the pve guys had made so much noise to drown us out and keep Biowares attention on them. I felt, what goes around, comes around.

 

Pvpers were the first to start leaving the game after the initial player exodus at launch because we had no new content added, we had a bad gearing system, classes weren’t even close to balanced for pvp and we had this never ending pre season of ranked. When Bioware decided to add pvp content (Arena), they ripped away ranked objective based pvp. This caused players to leave who didn’t like arena format ranked. Over the years with pvp being ignored in favour of pve, pvp players kept leaving, even as gearing and balance got better because of no new content. Bioware would occasionally throw an Arena in for pvp, but they were half backed messes when released and a lot of people still playing didint/don’t like arena format and marginalised casual and dedicated objective pvpers more (which I believe were the majority) There was nothing for objective pvpers, so they kept leaving.

 

We then saw lots of pve raiders start to abandon the game around Reven and this accelerated as any new content in the the expansions became locked into solo only play. Less and less resources were spent on operations and flash points and progression raiders left for good reason. This continued and then the casual raiders followed them because you can only do the story so many times. The lack of new repeatable content, which is what essentially keeps people around inbetween expansions after they get bored of doing the same story multiple times because it’s not class based, just the same story with no consequences no matter your character choices. So we had more casual players leave.

 

This continued exodus was all due to Bioware not understanding their core player base and not listening to what they wanted. There was basically a communications black out between us and them for most of this game’s development. It’s only been since Keith has been in charge that communication has improved and they’ve started to listen. Before that, Bioware forced content and play style on us that many people didn’t want. This made more people leave and eventually culminated in a massive back lash over 5.0 when many remaining loyal players had enough of people like Ben Irving not listening to us and telling us “what we should like”, not what we do like.... “this new gearing system is exciting”

 

Nearly the whole 5.x era has been a major turn off for many people and we saw the biggest exodus in such a short period since launch. This has reduced the player base significantly and it’s been bleeding out ever since. Bioware management finally realised that we needed someone in charge who understood the older MMO model and the new story model. Keith understood that you couldn’t ignore one part of the game for long periods of time, like they did when they first ignored the pvp players and then the pve players for years. This change is good, but with the reduced revenue (from players leaving), Keith had less money to work with and I believe he still had to fight hard to get any real changes made, which is why most of last year was a shambles and why it took 2/3rds of the year to adjust the gearing system that drove so many people away. That also took valuable time and resources away from developing new content, which in turn, made more people leave.

 

Now Story or solo players don’t like they have to share the remaining resources for content with the rest of the player base. Many felt (feel) self entitled, sort of like how the old pve and raider population felt towards the pvp players. So when they weren’t getting the attention they were when Bioware tried the solo story (only) experiment, they of course started to leave as well. Its the same thing, when you ignore a whole part of the players base for a long time in favour of another, that focused player base feels they are more important and they must continue to get that focus or they will leave. They are now bitterly upset and resent the pvpers for getting some focused content, which was sorely needed. Sadly it just makes them look a little bit shellfish that they think only their part of the game matters.Except, what goes around, comes around.

 

The thing is, this game can no longer afford to neglect the different parts of the player base because if one part fails, the rest probably can’t support it and get any new content in the future. The remaining players are the loyalists, but even they have a braking point, which we’ve seen this last 6 months where people who left the game, thought they’d be here till the servers were turned off.

 

Bioware upper management and probably EA are responsible for such big declines over the years due to mismanagement and ignoring the players fun in favour of a quick buck (Cartel Market and loot boxes). This game should have been so much more and could have been with the right leadership. I believe if Keith had the sort of resources at his disposal that Bioware had for “The Hutt Cartel”, this game would be thriving and not declining as fast as it is. But his hands are tied and he only has so much to work with and you can see how he is having trouble following his own plan of giving all parts of the game regular content.

 

I’m not saying Keith is perfect, he’s made mistakes like conquest. But I can only imagine how much better things would be is we had Keith 3-4 years ago or he at least had the resources now to implement his plan of giving all parts of the game regular content.

 

The game’s not dead or on life support (yet), but its certainly not as healthy as it should be. People are still leaving and it’s noticable because the population is a lot lower now than 2 years ago, so you only need a small amount to leave instead of a large chunk (which would kill the game IMO) to see the affects.

Even with the mergers to condense populations, the game can only continue for so long till there aren’t enough people to pay for new content. At that point the servers will either be turned off, merged into one or left to rot till there aren’t enough people left to play old content together. They will be the domain of the SW hermits who think the game is only a solo game and don’t need to see anyone else to have fun with old content.

 

IMO, we need 5.9.2 to be successful and smooth or more people leave and we may not see 6.0 released because EA pull the plug due to lack of revenue. Any speed humps or big mistakes that aren’t addressed fast, will be disastrous.

Edited July 26, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[Vember]

I’ve yet to meet a dedicated pvper who prefers this system over the old pvp gearing system.

 

You have now

 

Well, a dedicated regs pvper. I don't like ranked because I despise arenas, but I spend most of my time online pvping.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Vember

[TUXs]

Gear shouldn’t even be a thing in pvp. The easiest solution at this point is to just raise Bolster to 252 and everyone will have similar gear rating, wether it’s 230 or 248. This way it doesn’t infringe on any other part of the game. Gear will still matter for pve content, but not for pvp.

 

Anyone who says they only pvp and nothing else, doesn’t play to grind gear or to get rewards. They play for the combat vs combat of it. They don’t want to play gear wars. If you need gear progression to incentivise you to play pvp, then you aren’t playing for the a skilled combat experience, you just want to be a gear god.

 

If you play multiple aspects of the game, then gear does matter, so you will still get a gear grind incentive for playing pvp or pve because I’m not advocating they remove the current gearing system in the game, just make it so gear doesn’t matter while playing pvp. You could still gear up in pvp for other parts of the game.

 

(I’m using the term “you” to speak to a wider audience, I’m not focusing on you Tux, even though I’ve replied to your post)

Very well said Trixxie - I agree 100%!!! Bolster to 252 - BETTER than BiS currently available. Make gear meaningless for PvP. Like you said, the people who only PvP will not be impacted, and those who dabble in both PvE and PvP will still have the same incentive to get better gear. WIN-WIN!

[Andryah]

Gear shouldn’t even be a thing in pvp. The easiest solution at this point is to just raise Bolster to 252 and everyone will have similar gear rating, wether it’s 230 or 248. This way it doesn’t infringe on any other part of the game. Gear will still matter for pve content, but not for pvp.

 

Anyone who says they only pvp and nothing else, doesn’t play to grind gear or to get rewards. They play for the combat vs combat of it. They don’t want to play gear wars. If you need gear progression to incentivise you to play pvp, then you aren’t playing for the a skilled combat experience, you just want to be a gear god.

 

If you play multiple aspects of the game, then gear does matter, so you will still get a gear grind incentive for playing pvp or pve because I’m not advocating they remove the current gearing system in the game, just make it so gear doesn’t matter while playing pvp. You could still gear up in pvp for other parts of the game.

 

(I’m using the term “you” to speak to a wider audience, I’m not focusing on you Tux, even though I’ve replied to your post)

 

I very much agree that gear should be a non-factor in PvP. Not every PvPer will agree with this of course, because they like gear providing that "frosting on the cake" in giving them a bit more power vs others, but my view is skill > gear and those that want a gear grind in PvP tend to be players who have more time to play, and hence can grind out the gear faster and then have an early advantage against other players until more players "catch up".

 

Thing is though.. this is a slippery slope effect for MMO studios. What do I mean? A soon as one content interest group of players gets a free pass on gear.... other interest groups will whine about why they have to grind gear and PvPers do not. Everyone will just want bolster to 252 and no gear grind. Note: I am not saying the expectation is rational... just that it is a natural outcome of giving one facet of the player base a free pass and others need to keep on keeping on.

 

I'm just not sure how to resolve this in an almost 7 year old game, and this really should have been done at launch and that would set the expectation that PvP is simply different compared to non PvP for SWTOR. But after so many years... people all feel equally entitled to the same methods, perks, and capabilities. That said, if it were me managing the game, I would just bite the bullet and remove gear as a power/skill factor for PvP...... but this will solve some issues, and create new ones I am sure.

 

Not everyone likes to PvP.... but by giving players more control over the PvP environment with the coming new SH, I think there is an opportunity for the studio here to breath some new life into PvP for this MMO. And as such... removing gear from the combat calculations is a good step to take. Of course players will then just double down on complaining about class balance, etc. etc. etc. so maybe it would largely be a waste of effort in the end.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Andryah

[Lhancelot]

I very much agree that gear should be a non-factor in PvP. Not every PvPer will agree with this of course, because they like gear providing that "frosting on the cake".

 

Me personally it's not that gear shouldn't matter, I mean I like gearing my toons as a PVPer I used to enjoy gearing tons of alts so I could PVP on all of them without much of a handicap.

 

My point is, gearing should be easier for PVPers, and gear does matter in ways of customization. I mean it ought to be easier to fine tune your toon for PVP and be able to play it the way you want without having to spend literally months to get all of the pieces you need on that toon.

 

I used to be able to play with lots of different gearing builds in PVP, builds that would never be used in PVE such as literally all alacrity augs and enhancements on my sage DPS just to see how fast his channels were etc. That was fun! Not practical, but fun.

 

Now, you cannot do things like this. By making such a steep gear grind, they have removed a lot of the fun that PVP used to have available which is gear customization that was fairly simple to implement.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Lhancelot

[psandak]

Gear shouldn’t even be a thing in pvp. The easiest solution at this point is to just raise Bolster to 252 and everyone will have similar gear rating, wether it’s 230 or 248. This way it doesn’t infringe on any other part of the game. Gear will still matter for pve content, but not for pvp.

 

Anyone who says they only pvp and nothing else, doesn’t play to grind gear or to get rewards. They play for the combat vs combat of it. They don’t want to play gear wars. If you need gear progression to incentivise you to play pvp, then you aren’t playing for the a skilled combat experience, you just want to be a gear god.

 

If you play multiple aspects of the game, then gear does matter, so you will still get a gear grind incentive for playing pvp or pve because I’m not advocating they remove the current gearing system in the game, just make it so gear doesn’t matter while playing pvp. You could still gear up in pvp for other parts of the game.

 

(I’m using the term “you” to speak to a wider audience, I’m not focusing on you Tux, even though I’ve replied to your post)

 

While I agree with your sentiment I disagree with your assumption and implementation. In my long experience in MMOs and gaming in general ALL players want some sort of progression; they want a carrot to chase. Sure, PvPers "need" that carrot less than PvEers but they still want the carrot.

 

But I do agree that gearing in PvP is making for a large portion of the imbalance, therefore my suggestion would be to set the bolster to be the "second best" rating not above "the best" Right now that would mean 246. The difference between 246 and 248 is minimal but it would be enough of a carrot to chase.

[TUXs]

While I agree with your sentiment I disagree with your assumption and implementation. In my long experience in MMOs and gaming in general ALL players want some sort of progression; they want a carrot to chase. Sure, PvPers "need" that carrot less than PvEers but they still want the carrot.

 

But I do agree that gearing in PvP is making for a large portion of the imbalance, therefore my suggestion would be to set the bolster to be the "second best" rating not above "the best" Right now that would mean 246. The difference between 246 and 248 is minimal but it would be enough of a carrot to chase.

I think 246 is the ideal solution. I don't mind it jumping to 252 either, but 246 is the best idea to keep people chasing that carrot.

[Kiesu]

I think 246 is the ideal solution. I don't mind it jumping to 252 either, but 246 is the best idea to keep people chasing that carrot.

 

Wouldn't downgrade bolster actually be better (like lvsync on planets)? Then yo wouldn't need to keep upping the bolster every expansion/gearcap. Drop everything to 220 and keep it there for forever. Then you'd only have to worry about PVE group finder bolster and wouldn't ever need to think about pvp bolster again.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Kiesu

[Andryah]

While I agree with your sentiment I disagree with your assumption and implementation. In my long experience in MMOs and gaming in general ALL players want some sort of progression; they want a carrot to chase. Sure, PvPers "need" that carrot less than PvEers but they still want the carrot.

 

True, but this just suggests that studios that produce MMOs need to think broader than gear when they come up with progressions and incentives to follow them.

 

Gear as progression is kind of a lazy weak sauce approach in the industry that over the years has now programmed players to chase gear for PvP (ie: it has become the default assumption and approach, yet players also hate gear grinds generally for PvP). This can and should be changed with more imaginative carrots and progression incentives in general.... which will take some time and effort since PvP players have generally been programmed over the years to chase gear as their main progression.

 

Something that works kind of like visible badges or medals (or how about special capes or dye colors or carbonite frozen enemies.... either fixed for decorations or mobile as some sort of item that fills the pet slot) for progress would likely be a good approach for SWTOR as long as it is done in a manner that allows players to actually show them off in game as proof and bragging rights. Perhaps some pets that are unique in their display of flags or banners streaming as they move around, and/or decoration banners and other "trophy" style rewards for SHs. The reason I suggest this style of approach is because gear is only important to most PvPers if it offers some advantage AND/OR something in the form of bragging rights. If you remove the gear as an play advantage, that leaves the bragging rights and other peacock style exhibitions in game as proof of ones prowess in PvP.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Andryah

[aerockyul]

That's the thing there's just nothing worth salvaging.

 

If EA knew what was up they would go over to /r/swtor and see what the folks are saying over there. No one is happy with the game no one wants to play it. New players are being told to stay away from TOR and check out FFXIV as it gets great content updates. EA doesn't even post on there when people like Eric would be welcome to post and talk to the community.

 

Really at this point? Disney just needs to stop the movies. Episode 9 is going to bomb hard more so after TLJ was a bomb with people. I mean thankfully they look to be waking up to things with Marvel. I am wanting them to do the same with Star Wars.

 

Box office rankings of each Star Wars movie compared to each other. THIS IS JUST DOMESTIC (US) TOTALS

 

This is the box office rankings (international), in BILLIONS, of all time. Note where the two newest Star Wars movies are.

 

Yeah, Disney is crying in their milk over how much their movies are bombing :rolleyes:

 

I assure you Disney does not care how many "original" fans they might have "lost" when there are plenty of younger kids and audiences still discovering everything from a non-jaded perspective, from many new markets around the world, with four times the number of theaters screening each movie (just domestically!).

 

That's just BOX OFFICE!!!! They are raking in so much more from licensing, marketing, toys, home-video, etc. They wouldn't/couldn't make that much if they were such a horrible "failure" with "bombing" movies dragging them down.

 

Just because YOU didn't like TLJ, Disney should classify their acquisition investment as a "failure?"

 

Big LOL at the "failure" TLJ was (and before that, all the angst and cries of "failure" that TFA was)

 

Even I will admit Solo was a bit of a "failure" but just from a Star Wars perspective. Still made more than arguably the greatest Star Wars movie of all! (yeah yeah, inflation, theater totals. Again, big LOL that Disney gaf about that right now)

[Savej]

Gear is the main thing that keeps people in Q. If you remove it or make it meaningless to those that mostly only care about pvp, they will stop q'ing. Similar to raiding - ,how many will raid if the only reward is something that can be used in solo story missions? I'm sure some would occasionally but "making progress" is a big driver for mmo players. Creating a game without gear like LOL requires a whole different game design from the ground up (and that wouldn't be any more casual or newb friendly than what we have now).

[Joonbeams]

box office rankings of each star wars movie compared to each other. This is just domestic (us) totals

 

this is the box office rankings (international), in billions, of all time. Note where the two newest star wars movies are.

 

Yeah, disney is crying in their milk over how much their movies are bombing :rolleyes:

 

I assure you disney does not care how many "original" fans they might have "lost" when there are plenty of younger kids and audiences still discovering everything from a non-jaded perspective, from many new markets around the world, with four times the number of theaters screening each movie (just domestically!).

 

That's just box office!!!! They are raking in so much more from licensing, marketing, toys, home-video, etc. They wouldn't/couldn't make that much if they were such a horrible "failure" with "bombing" movies dragging them down.

 

Just because you didn't like tlj, disney should classify their acquisition investment as a "failure?"

 

big lol at the "failure" tlj was (and before that, all the angst and cries of "failure" that tfa was)

 

even i will admit solo was a bit of a "failure" but just from a star wars perspective. Still made more than arguably the greatest star wars movie of all! (yeah yeah, inflation, theater totals. Again, big lol that disney gaf about that right now)

 

^^qft

[Tahana]

Even I will admit Solo was a bit of a "failure" but just from a Star Wars perspective. Still made more than arguably the greatest Star Wars movie of all! (yeah yeah, inflation, theater totals. Again, big LOL that Disney gaf about that right now)

 

Yeah it was such an awesome success that Disney canceled the rest of the solo plot movies they had slated...

/sarc

[aerockyul]

Yeah it was such an awesome success that Disney canceled the rest of the solo plot movies they had slated...

/sarc

 

I thought my last comment was pretty clear I didn't think it was awesome.

 

I don't want to spend too much time defending it since I didn't really like it myself.

 

Still a top 10 movie this year internationally, with some pretty lofty competition.

 

Disney would be delusional if they expected Solo to do as well as TFA and TLJ. I think Solo failed on other merits besides "not making as much money as two of the 11 highest grossing films of all time" and Disney (smartly) isn't going to bang it's head against the wall doing something again that had so many issues running up to it.