kissingaiur Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Where do ppl get all these funny ideas? I'm talking subscribers in general.. PvP as always been unbalance, even back went it was full Expertise, bads continue to be bad, premade continue to to farm players, the solo skillful player couldn't prevail because the system continue to queue them with bads while premade farm them..etc.. in other words there as never been such thing as "based on skills" never was.. What I see with the upcoming changes is a change in Power, and those players who control the game don't like/wanna loose their grip on others.. The Command System is the best thing that as happened to this game. Players are no longer alienated or have to heavily relay on others to obtain what they want.. They can independently participate in all aspects of the game.. Lets face it; those who're advocating for expertise to be back, want nothing more than The Command System to be eliminated. I can only imaging that Yellow fever crawling down their spine for fear of the unknow, fear of things they cant/wont be able to control anymore:D:D:D:D:D:cool: i love coming to forums to see pvp gearing conspiracy theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grxsr Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 i love coming to forums to see pvp gearing conspiracy theories. Ikr. Loosing Power as always been a conspiracy theory.. " If You Want To Achieve Greatness Stop Asking For Permission " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Ikr. Loosing Power as always been a conspiracy theory.. " If You Want To Achieve Greatness Stop Asking For Permission " nah you just sound completely crazy. it's worth a good laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sithBracer Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 nah you just sound completely crazy. it's worth a good laugh. All the people who want expertise back are actually russian bots. You are all puppets of putin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seterade Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 All the people who want expertise back are actually russian bots. You are all puppets of putin. same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbleton Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I don’t really care about expertise coming back or not. I think if it did, they’d need to add it to bolster and not gear. It should be a way to balance in PvP without affecting PvE. What I do find hilarious is the group of people, of whom you can tell by their writing, that believe expertise will somehow change or enhance their personal PvP experience. Nope, sry, you’ll still get dumped on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severith Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I don’t really care about expertise coming back or not. I think if it did, they’d need to add it to bolster and not gear. It should be a way to balance in PvP without affecting PvE. What I do find hilarious is the group of people, of whom you can tell by their writing, that believe expertise will somehow change or enhance their personal PvP experience. Nope, sry, you’ll still get dumped on. I made the mistake of queing pub side yesterday. In a few matches, there were 2-3 people who still had greens, even though the 230 gear is basically free at this point. They didn't even have 120k health. I'm totally with you that if expertise is added it should be as a part of bolster and not of gear, because "those" people will always be there, and if they're on your team it's an auto loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seterade Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) expertise was never designed as a crutch. the only thing expertise will do is increase dmg by 10% (more dieing, more killing, less parsing) and make gear cheaper. (no month long playing 1 toon) which frankly would be worlds better than what we have.... parsing warzones and pve gear grind Edited July 18, 2018 by Seterade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 expertise was never designed as a crutch. the only thing expertise will do is increase dmg by 10% (more dieing, more killing, less parsing) and make gear cheaper. (no month long playing 1 toon) which frankly would be worlds better than what we have.... parsing warzones and pve gear grind Expertise throws another variable into the equation and allows them to have a way to balance classes independent of pve. It does not necessarily mean a change in gearing. They can easily add expertise into the current system. I've seen here tie it to bolster. My immediate thought was tie it to gear level. I personally don't care any way around it. I'll be fine whatever they decide. As much as I hate to admit it, however, I tend to agree with bleloch here - expertise is not going to be the great equalizer between skilled and less skilled players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) I tend to agree with bleloch here - expertise is not going to be the great equalizer between skilled and less skilled players. I am neutral on the possibility of expertise being brought back. I believe they could improve the present gear system, add better customization with gears and balance the classes better with or without expertise. I don't see expertise having anything to do with equalizing PVP between skilled/lesser skilled players though. Edited July 18, 2018 by Lhancelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seterade Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) it wont. but it will fix the facetank meta now. it doesnt sound like much, but 10% dps is the difference between 248 and 230, and boy can a 248 trash a 230 quickly. Edited July 18, 2018 by Seterade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grxsr Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 nah you just sound completely crazy. it's worth a good laugh. why is it "crazy" ? its there is something I had previously said as false.. directly calling players 'nick names" is a clear violations of forum rules, Unless moderators are still on their summer break.. or is okay for some to violate forum rules but for the rest of us is not.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bob- Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 why is it "crazy" ? its there is something I had previously said as false.. directly calling players 'nick names" is a clear violations of forum rules, Unless moderators are still on their summer break.. or is okay for some to violate forum rules but for the rest of us is not.. Sir yes Sir!!! please don't tell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 why is it "crazy" ? its there is something I had previously said as false.. directly calling players 'nick names" is a clear violations of forum rules, Unless moderators are still on their summer break.. or is okay for some to violate forum rules but for the rest of us is not.. wut are you even talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 why is it "crazy" ? its there is something I had previously said as false.. directly calling players 'nick names" is a clear violations of forum rules, Unless moderators are still on their summer break.. or is okay for some to violate forum rules but for the rest of us is not.. To be fair she never called you a name, she simply said you sounded crazy. That's not calling you a "nick name." Honestly whether someone wants expertise back or not has nothing to do with gaining power... Players that demolished "bads" when there was expertise in the game are demolishing bads right now without it. How does expertise grant anyone power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayushman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 How does expertise grant anyone power? It does not. I'm average at best (cause RL does not allow me to put enough time on game?). From my experience I can tell, 1) Dedicated players improve over time, 2) Bads will always be bads and 3) No gear, mechanics or system can help bad players to top dedicated players on every occasion. So expertise comes back or not, I will play the game and I assume both dedicated and bads are also going to play the game. Dedicated players are going to improve and bads are going to whine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 i thought that expertise would be one topic for discussion that pvpers could collectively agree was a good thing. it shocks me that we have players who have experienced the gearing system now and have somehow convinced themselves that somehow this is better using bizarre reasoning. it just shows you, no matter what the topic is majority of players on forums have little understanding about what is actually going on in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 i thought that expertise would be one topic for discussion that pvpers could collectively agree was a good thing. it shocks me that we have players who have experienced the gearing system now and have somehow convinced themselves that somehow this is better using bizarre reasoning. it just shows you, no matter what the topic is majority of players on forums have little understanding about what is actually going on in the game. Again they can easily add expertise to the gearing system now and give us the worst of both worlds. There are plenty of ways to scale expertise - with bolster or gear. Did i like the old system better? Yes. I liked thr old conqiest system better too. But I'm not going to start assuming they're going to massively overhaul a system they just spent months massively overhauling. If they bring back expertise, its most likely to be as a way to balance classes independent off pve, and the same issues everyone has with gearing now, will still be issues. The grass is not always greener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) Again they can easily add expertise to the gearing system now and give us the worst of both worlds. There are plenty of ways to scale expertise - with bolster or gear. Did i like the old system better? Yes. I liked thr old conqiest system better too. But I'm not going to start assuming they're going to massively overhaul a system they just spent months massively overhauling. If they bring back expertise, its most likely to be as a way to balance classes independent off pve, and the same issues everyone has with gearing now, will still be issues. The grass is not always greener. The main issue right now is that gearing and min/maxing gear for pvpers takes months. Since gear in pvp is secondary they need to switch to a system that allows players to just get gear in a cheap and fast way to do pvp content. When players say gearing was in a week in 4.0 for those who pvped, we aren't exaggerating. It was a week worth of pvp investment for both pvpers or pvers. In comparison with today's terms: you would get full 242s in a day and getting full 248 in a week. It was literally a week to fully min/max in 4.0 because A) it was cheap as hell and B) there was 2 gear tiers all of which is possible because of the separation of pvp and pve gear. They could keep all the gear extremely accessible to anyone who played pvp because they didn't have to compete with a pve gear progression. No one wants to spend years to min/max 10 alts. So yes, if they renewed the old pvp gearing system to be the same accessibility as in 4.0, the grass is fing greener. Edited July 19, 2018 by kissingaiur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) The main issue right now is that gearing and min/maxing gear for pvpers takes months. It was literally a week to fully min/max in 4.0 because A) it was cheap as hell and B) there was 2 gear tiers all of which is possible because of the separation of pvp and pve gear. They could keep all the gear extremely accessible to anyone who played pvp because they didn't have to compete with a pve gear progression. No one wants to spend years to min/max 10 alts. So yes, if they renewed the old pvp gearing system to be the same accessibility as in 4.0, the grass is fing greener. Way to miss the point. They can bring back expertise and change nothing about gearing. It could become a part of bolster, scale with average gear level, there are plenty of options that do not involve bringing back the old gear system. I even explicitly stated i liked the old gear system better. The entire point is: bringing back the old gear system and bring back expertise is a completely false equivalency; i.e. bringing back expertise does not necessarily imply bringing back the comm system. In case you missrd it again, i am not defending GC. I wrote multiple essays berating GC when it first came out and even before hand. I am pointing out a logical inconsistency that is promulgating this thread. Edited July 19, 2018 by KendraP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) Way to miss the point. They can bring back expertise and change nothing about gearing. It could become a part of bolster, scale with average gear level, there are plenty of options that do not involve bringing back the old gear system. I even explicitly stated i liked the old gear system better. The entire point is: bringing back the old gear system and bring back expertise is a completely false equivalency; i.e. bringing back expertise does not necessarily imply bringing back the comm system. In case you missrd it again, i am not defending GC. I wrote multiple essays berating GC when it first came out and even before hand. I am pointing out a logical inconsistency that is promulgating this thread. I highly doubt it. Expertise is literally design in two ways: one to be a cheap way and fast way for pvpers to get gear which doesn’t conflict with pve profession and two, a way for them to implement balance. Edited July 19, 2018 by kissingaiur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seterade Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) Way to miss the point. They can bring back expertise and change nothing about gearing. It could become a part of bolster, scale with average gear level, there are plenty of options that do not involve bringing back the old gear system. I even explicitly stated i liked the old gear system better. The entire point is: bringing back the old gear system and bring back expertise is a completely false equivalency; i.e. bringing back expertise does not necessarily imply bringing back the comm system. In case you missrd it again, i am not defending GC. I wrote multiple essays berating GC when it first came out and even before hand. I am pointing out a logical inconsistency that is promulgating this thread. https://imgur.com/a/mXtBUgD keith directly messaged about "two gear sets" ............... why would you write essays on a forum? you realise they dont change the game from 1 persons prospective, they change it for majority vote. Edited July 19, 2018 by Seterade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTurin Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) I highly doubt it. Expertise is literally design in two ways: one to be a cheap way and fast way for pvpers to get gear which doesn’t conflict with pve profession and two, a way for them to implement balance. 4.0 was the only expansion that expertise was a cheap and fast way for pvpers to get gear. It was also the only expansion that you could get full PVE highest tier gear in a week as well. It's not expertise you want back, it's cheap and easy gearing (which I generally agree with). But you don't need expertise to get cheap and easy gear. And how have they ever used expertise on gear to balance PVP separate of PVE? People keep saying this and I really don't understand that, it seems like it would be possible to do so (give more expertise to classes underperforming in PVP, less to those overperforming etc.) but I have not seen them do this, it was basically just a random stat to artificially create a distinction between PVP and PVE gear, which led to a lot of bads queing for PVP in PVE gear and getting globaled. I would love it if they actually used expertise as a way to balance classes, but have they ever done that in the past? Edited July 19, 2018 by LordTurin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seterade Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) it was basically just a random stat to artificially create a distinction between PVP and PVE gear it wasnt "random". it granted 60% more dps damage and 30% more damage reduction. this is very important because that ment you had an unmitigated 10% dmg from all sources in pvp. this pushed the concept that pvp was about dieing, not surviving which is a direct opposition to how pve works. in pve, if you die your gear breaks, which you then pay a penalty. there is no death penalty in pvp, and in expertise you were encouraged to do more than could be mitigated forceing more deaths. the use of expertise was purposeful and for those who remember it, we would take it over GC in a heartbeat. Edited July 19, 2018 by Seterade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTurin Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 it wasnt "random". it granted 60% more dps damage and 30% more damage reduction. this is very important because that ment you had an unmitigated 10% dmg from all sources in pvp. this pushed the concept that pvp was about dieing, not surviving which is a direct opposition to how pve works. in pve, if you die your gear breaks, which you then pay a penalty. there is no death penalty in pvp, and in expertise you were encouraged to do more than could be mitigated forceing more deaths. the use of expertise was purposeful and for those who remember it, we would take it over GC in a heartbeat. I'm not sure how those numbers exactly add up, I think people not dying so much is because healers and dcd's got super overpowered (how exactly did expertise magically make some damage "unmitigatable"? Didn't it just increase dmg period?). Anyway, they could easily change trauma and bolster to get the same effect if they wanted to. And at best, all that 10% does is balance dps vs heals anyway, it doesn't balance dps classes and specs or heal classes and specs amongst themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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