MacCleoud Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 This is a great idea! I'll endeavor to put one together, either as a blog or forum post. It will probably be a few weeks at least though, so please be patient with me There is no Patience... only aggression. I am pretty sure that is in one of the Codes. Thanks Charles! This will be great for us to be able to keep story lines Coherent. I have a Sith Guild that plays the Outlander was a light side Bounty Hunter. Let's set them straight! (It was a /roll 16 that ended up with lightside BH as the choice.....who knew!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudlar Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Looking forward to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 This is a great idea! I'll endeavor to put one together, either as a blog or forum post. It will probably be a few weeks at least though, so please be patient with me Yeeey, Charles on the forums! Hi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phalczen Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 This is a great idea! I'll endeavor to put one together, either as a blog or forum post. It will probably be a few weeks at least though, so please be patient with me While you're at it, could you track down the original short story published to the site before KOTFE (and before the Brothers developer blog in July 2015) written about Senya and Valkorion first meeting? I can't seem to locate it anywhere on the website anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 This is a great idea! I'll endeavor to put one together, either as a blog or forum post. It will probably be a few weeks at least though, so please be patient with me Charles, I love you!!! You're AMAZING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Charles, I love you!!! You're AMAZING! Yes he is!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 Yes he is!! I especially got to experience his awesomeness in the tweets he replied with to the lore questions I asked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskIsNotAmused Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) this is a great idea! I'll endeavor to put one together, either as a blog or forum post. It will probably be a few weeks at least though, so please be patient with me Thank you! Edited July 9, 2018 by DuskIsNotAmused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I especially got to experience his awesomeness in the tweets he replied with to the lore questions I asked Charles always seems to be willing to answer questions on twitter when he's able to, I find that really awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 This is a great idea! I'll endeavor to put one together, either as a blog or forum post. It will probably be a few weeks at least though, so please be patient with me Thank you very much, Charles. I think this is a great opportunity to explore how much of an impact the Eternal Empire had on how both the Republic and Empire functioned. As as Vitiate once said "I have the patience of stone". On a serious note though thanks for considering the idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 Charles always seems to be willing to answer questions on twitter when he's able to, I find that really awesome. It shows a dedication to the player and fanbase that we don't see too often! I'd dare even say others should look to Mr. Boyd as an example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinlanSaathis Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 This is a great idea! I'll endeavor to put one together, either as a blog or forum post. It will probably be a few weeks at least though, so please be patient with me How are you going to reconcile the Nathama events into a "State of the Galaxy" So many "important" people died there, or didn't depending on your character and choices. How can you possibly chose who is dead and who is not within canon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediBoadicea Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 How are you going to reconcile the Nathama events into a "State of the Galaxy" So many "important" people died there, or didn't depending on your character and choices. How can you possibly chose who is dead and who is not within canon? This has been a real problem and headache for those of us who RP, ever since Iokath. I took to calling it Schrodinger's Galaxy, because those of us who wanted to RP characters with some connection to the Senate or the Dark Council simply had no way to agree on what the actual state of the shared galaxy would be. If Charles and his team could make this post, many of us would be extremely grateful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 How are you going to reconcile the Nathama events into a "State of the Galaxy" So many "important" people died there, or didn't depending on your character and choices. How can you possibly chose who is dead and who is not within canon? Either choices have to be made who the "canon" death is or not, or otherwise a different solution needs to be found. One could say the people on Nathema simply remained vanished anyway, or otherwise find another way where clarity is given without ruining player choices. But clarity is needed, especially for those who are part of the roleplaying community. The limbo of uncertainty whether Acina is Empress or Vowrawn Emperor is truly debilitating and the cause why almost no one roleplays in the post-Iokath timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kataret Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Thanks Charles for popping in and saying something! Everyone is excited now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyHeaton Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Smart RPers divorce themselves from major story events and characters enough that what's "canon" in a multi-choice game doesn't matter so much. As long as we have a general idea of how the galactic stage is set it's fine. The only people who will be bothered by who's dead and who isn't where said choices are affected by players are the ones who RP as being "best buds with Theron and Darth Marrs secret love child", etc. In other words, bad RPers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kataret Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 How are you going to reconcile the Nathama events into a "State of the Galaxy" So many "important" people died there, or didn't depending on your character and choices. How can you possibly chose who is dead and who is not within canon? Charles has noted before that he likes to leave these kind of choices open-ended as long as possible before introducing a mechanic that basically nullifies the choice. That said, I don't expect them to offer a specific canon choice. As for the many NPC deaths on Nathema, I suspect that one of the reasons for it was BioWare "clearing the board", or so to speak. Some characters were killed justifiably to wrap up some loose ends, while others were unfortunately killed off that I would have loved to see more of in-game. But their potential death and class specificity makes them unlikely contenders going forward. Regardless of how you feel about the many deaths on Nathema, they do undeniably make room for other returning characters (Darth Jadus, Vowrawn, Moff Pyron, Jonas Balker, Satele Shan, Rogun the Butcher, Minister of Intelligence, etc.) while also leaving plenty of room for new characters. We can fully expect to see a new cast of companions now that Lana and T7 are really the only ones that are 100% still with us. TL;DR: The deaths on Nathema likely won't be rectified and were implemented to make room for characters new and old in the expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) Smart RPers divorce themselves from major story events and characters enough that what's "canon" in a multi-choice game doesn't matter so much. As long as we have a general idea of how the galactic stage is set it's fine. The only people who will be bothered by who's dead and who isn't where said choices are affected by players are the ones who RP as being "best buds with Theron and Darth Marrs secret love child", etc. In other words, bad RPers. That is not true. Suppose two Sith Lords, with no connection to any major characters within the game, find themselves discussing the political state of the Empire. One wishes to comment about the Empire's ruler's course of action, do they speak of Acina or Vowrawn? And that is just one example of perfectly fine roleplay that does not constitute "bad rp'ers" (also, RP'ers are notorious for policing one another's roleplay as if they were government officials which is just sad). On the DMRP community for example we have a server-wide initiative running around the Spheres of Influence. Meetings of various Spheres are hosted, for example, the Military spheres have had a recent gathering, Production and Logistics, Laws and Justice will soon have one. Those meetings are of a very political nature, do you think it's easy to not reference the ruler of the Empire in such an occassion? Edited July 10, 2018 by Ylliarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phalczen Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 do you think it's easy to not reference the ruler of the Empire in such an occassion? No, but you could just say “our glorious leader” and leave if at that. You could easily RP some event and find out come 5.10 or 6.0 that your event directly conflicts with the next part of the game story. Seems to me the best thing is to do what you have fun doing and retcon later if you have to. I can’t imagine it will be the first time for he community, I’m sure other occasions have arisen in the last seven years. I’d imagine it’s a frustrating for you as it was for Timothy Zahn to retcon Thrawn, but he still seems to be having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 That is not true. Suppose two Sith Lords, with no connection to any major characters within the game, find themselves discussing the political state of the Empire. One wishes to comment about the Empire's ruler's course of action, do they speak of Acina or Vowrawn? And that is just one example of perfectly fine roleplay that does not constitute "bad rp'ers" (also, RP'ers are notorious for policing one another's roleplay as if they were government officials which is just sad). On the DMRP community for example we have a server-wide initiative running around the Spheres of Influence. Meetings of various Spheres are hosted, for example, the Military spheres have had a recent gathering, Production and Logistics, Laws and Justice will soon have one. Those meetings are of a very political nature, do you think it's easy to not reference the ruler of the Empire in such an occassion? How about keeping it vague. Something along the lines of "Our ruler is foolish for pulling out of Iokath", I understand the RP community takes the lore very seriously but again I re-iterate my point that if Bioware ever releases a "canon" answer to what the Commander chose the forums will rage and they'll get even more heat. The best they can give us is vague references to events that transpired without the need of the player, so perhaps Acina gets assassinated for retaliation for Iokath so Malcom and her are dead and Vowrawn gets to be Emperor essentially putting things in the same place for everyone, that would be a lazy way to do since it nullifies your choice at Iokath it but it's the only way I can think of a "canon" answer. So maybe the RP community can come up with reasons for change in leadership, so Acina gets assassinated and Vowrawn takes control of the Empire, Malcom gets assassinated either in retaliation for Iokath or for whatever reason, The puppet Chancellor who took over after Saresh gets impeached or resigns, really that's as close to any "canon" we can get here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 No, but you could just say “our glorious leader” and leave if at that. You could easily RP some event and find out come 5.10 or 6.0 that your event directly conflicts with the next part of the game story. Seems to me the best thing is to do what you have fun doing and retcon later if you have to. I can’t imagine it will be the first time for he community, I’m sure other occasions have arisen in the last seven years. I’d imagine it’s a frustrating for you as it was for Timothy Zahn to retcon Thrawn, but he still seems to be having fun. ^This. I already had to retcon my own legacy canon because of the events of Nathema and the destruction of the Eternal Fleet, and it wasn't the first time as well and I doubt it'll be the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 No, but you could just say “our glorious leader” and leave if at that. You could easily RP some event and find out come 5.10 or 6.0 that your event directly conflicts with the next part of the game story. Seems to me the best thing is to do what you have fun doing and retcon later if you have to. I can’t imagine it will be the first time for he community, I’m sure other occasions have arisen in the last seven years. I’d imagine it’s a frustrating for you as it was for Timothy Zahn to retcon Thrawn, but he still seems to be having fun. How about keeping it vague. Something along the lines of "Our ruler is foolish for pulling out of Iokath", I understand the RP community takes the lore very seriously but again I re-iterate my point that if Bioware ever releases a "canon" answer to what the Commander chose the forums will rage and they'll get even more heat. The best they can give us is vague references to events that transpired without the need of the player, so perhaps Acina gets assassinated for retaliation for Iokath so Malcom and her are dead and Vowrawn gets to be Emperor essentially putting things in the same place for everyone, that would be a lazy way to do since it nullifies your choice at Iokath it but it's the only way I can think of a "canon" answer. So maybe the RP community can come up with reasons for change in leadership, so Acina gets assassinated and Vowrawn takes control of the Empire, Malcom gets assassinated either in retaliation for Iokath or for whatever reason, The puppet Chancellor who took over after Saresh gets impeached or resigns, really that's as close to any "canon" we can get here. I feel I need to rectify something at this point because it seems there is a slight misunderstanding here: We do not ask Bioware to make a canon version of the KotFE or KotET playthroughs. Would the RP community love to see it? Yes, we would, because it would take away a lot of problems and inconsistencies we have had to endure. Do we expect it will ever happen or as for it? No, we don't, which is why we already have employed various measures to try to circumvent the obstacles in our way. One such example is that no RP guild has moved along with the timeline as the story updates came out, all of the stories on the DMRP community happen before Iokath takes place. Yet, this is a temporary solution until we have more information, or at least, enough information to be able to keep circumventing the player choice-issues in the future. We simply like immersion, so we'd love to be able to reference the Empire's ruler by name, but don't expect Bioware to put us above of the rest of the playerbase. What we did want is an overall/general State of the Galaxy article in which various questions are answered such as: how does the Republic look now, how do the Jedi look now, what is the Sith Empire up to, what are the minor factions such as the Hutt Cartel and Chiss Ascendancy up to, what's the state of Coruscant, Tython, Dromund Kaas, Korriban etc. Having such an article really gives us a solid overview of where the story and lore stand at this moment, so that we can move along with it and not remain stuck in the pre-Iokath timeline. So to reiterate, the player choice divergencies is not something new to us, we have been dealing with it since KotFE and KotET, so we don't worry about finding a solution to that. Would we love to see canon versions of player choices? Yes! Do we expect or ask for canon versions of player choices? No. We just want an overview what the current state of the galaxy is and the lore surrounding it. And retconning stuff is not new to us, it's just something we'd prefer not to do constantly, especially if entire guild story arcs are built around a specific lore item that then is retconned. It's the main reason why no guild plays out stories beyond the events of Iokath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyHeaton Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) I feel I need to rectify something at this point because it seems there is a slight misunderstanding here: We do not ask Bioware to make a canon version of the KotFE or KotET playthroughs. Would the RP community love to see it? Yes, we would, because it would take away a lot of problems and inconsistencies we have had to endure. Do we expect it will ever happen or as for it? No, we don't, which is why we already have employed various measures to try to circumvent the obstacles in our way. One such example is that no RP guild has moved along with the timeline as the story updates came out, all of the stories on the DMRP community happen before Iokath takes place. Yet, this is a temporary solution until we have more information, or at least, enough information to be able to keep circumventing the player choice-issues in the future. We simply like immersion, so we'd love to be able to reference the Empire's ruler by name, but don't expect Bioware to put us above of the rest of the playerbase. What we did want is an overall/general State of the Galaxy article in which various questions are answered such as: how does the Republic look now, how do the Jedi look now, what is the Sith Empire up to, what are the minor factions such as the Hutt Cartel and Chiss Ascendancy up to, what's the state of Coruscant, Tython, Dromund Kaas, Korriban etc. Having such an article really gives us a solid overview of where the story and lore stand at this moment, so that we can move along with it and not remain stuck in the pre-Iokath timeline. So to reiterate, the player choice divergencies is not something new to us, we have been dealing with it since KotFE and KotET, so we don't worry about finding a solution to that. Would we love to see canon versions of player choices? Yes! Do we expect or ask for canon versions of player choices? No. We just want an overview what the current state of the galaxy is and the lore surrounding it. And retconning stuff is not new to us, it's just something we'd prefer not to do constantly, especially if entire guild story arcs are built around a specific lore item that then is retconned. It's the main reason why no guild plays out stories beyond the events of Iokath. The people above me said it better than I did, and I agree with them 100%. A good, smart RPer will always be vague enough to cover possible retcons because retconning RP doesn't always only just affect you. It's just polite not tod rag others into your RP if it treads on potentially shaky ground lore wise. I'll use an example from my "main MMO": FFXIV. Before and during the first expansion there was a character named Yugiri who was completely hooded aside from a visible tail and what looked like points in her hood for ears or a horn, speculation was rabid about which race she might end up being and whether it would be something new or something taken from another game in the franchise. Then you had people -so sure- it was going to be Viera (bunny people from Final Fantasy 12) they began RPing as secret Viera because they just knew they'd be added as a confirmed race down the road. Can you guess what happened? Yugiri was shown to be a completely new race called the Au'ra later down the road, and now those people had a choice: retcon months and months of RP that involved untold number of people, potentially putting them out in the process if they built on that RP or continue to RP a race that had no way to be there and essentially be a walking case of non-canon. It's the same whenever people would try to RP -as- the Warrior of Light (think the XIV version of the Outlander). Not every player can be the hero who saves the galaxy, and most RPers know to just play as a character in the world the story is set.. not as the hero themselves. RPing around important events in the setting is fine.. RPing that you have intimate knowledge or relationships with story important characters is dangerous ground you'd be smarter avoiding. You say "the community is used to retcons" but I disagree. You don't speak for me, my friends and my community or assumedly the people who posted above me either. EDIT: Let me clarify that a general state of the galaxy would be great, though. Something along the lines of how each planet and faction is sitting. For places where player choice was a huge factor, they can leave it vague and say say something like "X is still in a state of chaos and indecision" until the expansion gets closer and they hammer out what's canon. Edited July 10, 2018 by TyHeaton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) EDIT: Let me clarify that a general state of the galaxy would be great, though. Something along the lines of how each planet and faction is sitting. For places where player choice was a huge factor, they can leave it vague and say say something like "X is still in a state of chaos and indecision" until the expansion gets closer and they hammer out what's canon. Very much if not exactly what we are thinking as well The people above me said it better than I did, and I agree with them 100%. A good, smart RPer will always be vague enough to cover possible retcons because retconning RP doesn't always only just affect you. It's just polite not tod rag others into your RP if it treads on potentially shaky ground lore wise. I personally would not drag others into shaky lore territory, yet I am but one person in a larger community. There are others who like to be more bold or are inspired by an ingame event that they'd love to involve it in their RP. It's the same whenever people would try to RP -as- the Warrior of Light (think the XIV version of the Outlander). Not every player can be the hero who saves the galaxy, and most RPers know to just play as a character in the world the story is set.. not as the hero themselves. RPing around important events in the setting is fine.. RPing that you have intimate knowledge or relationships with story important characters is dangerous ground you'd be smarter avoiding. But that's the thing, we don't RP as the main characters or as characters tied to the main characters. I for example play a random Twi'lek Sith Lord named Vithura in the Sphere of Laws and Justice. Her entire backstory I created and wrote myself, all of the characters involved in her story being self-made. That is what all of us in the RP community do, all of our characters are self-made with no ties to any of the main characters of the game. Or any character or NPC in the game, for that matter. We simply RP within the Star Wars The Old Republic setting, but as you can understand the setting shapes the stories we make with one another. If for example in the new expansion the Sphere of Laws and Justice will be dissolved, I will need to play out how Lord Vithura reacts on that, take that into account in future plots as well as find a new Sphere she could serve. Suppose that the Sphere is dissolved during another time skip and all the lore information we get is "Laws and Justice is no more" I will be left with questions like "how was it dissolved", "when exactly was it dissolved", "what effect did it have on the members of the Sphere" etc etc. because the lore change affects my RP character (not the ingame class I am playing) in a major way. That is what I am trying to convey as to why the RP community would love to receive more clarity on the various lore setting changes we saw with KotFE and KotET. You say "the community is used to retcons" but I disagree. You don't speak for me, my friends and my community or assumedly the people who posted above me either. No, I don't speak for you, true. However, as I said I am currently speaking on behalf of the Darth Malgus RP community or at least, a huge portion of the DMRP community, as we discussed this issue and subject in our discord server. Edited July 10, 2018 by Ylliarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 If Bioware picked a "canon" outcome for the story, I suspect more people would be upset about it than happy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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