Does anyone actually like the Odessen WZ?

[Rafiknoll]

First off, it is the only warzone where actually killing the other team adds no benefit to the game. The most basic rule of pvp is: kill the enemy. Even in 4.0 when healers are mega OP and you'd get a Voidstar with 5 healers on each team leading to a stalemate at the first door.... everyone knew "get 1 kill, and you win the game." Even in huttball, killing the other team will help keep mid open, keep them in their endzone and help you advance the ball. But no, in Odessen I've seen people commit suicide rather than fight because it will "help their team."

 

Umm, what??? In huttball. you can win by using pushes, pulls stuns roots and leaps, and the damage they deal is a mere side effect. I am quite certain that when a huttball game is soled by 2 operatives, they will not have even 1k DPS most of the times. In any other map, you can sap-cap your enemies. In fact, Odessen is the ONLY map in which you gotta kill the guard of an enemy node in order to get it (or root the hell out of him, which is still more counterable than sap-capping). If you say Odessen doesn't require you to kill, it is only true in case your opposition are all absolute imbeciles. If they play you gotta kill them. Everyone who mains a stealth class (especially operatives that can't push) should notice that only there he gotta fight a guard to get his node...

 

Second off, it's literally a giant cluster **** at every spawn. I can do incredible amounts of damage on a engi sniper just Aoeing the **** out of a node. And any melee class that has to sit in that AOE is ****ed hard.

If melees are guarding nodes while there are ranged people to do that, they are playing wrong. Ranged should guard nodes when possible. Finally we have a map where operatives aren't the ultimate guards or the ultimate captors and people complain?

 

Third off, it's like a gosh darn maze.

Whoever can't figure the map including all spawn points of power-ups, healing boosts and speed boosts in less than 10 games should seriously get his memory capacity checked...

 

On the other hand though, it's great for ganking. Most of my ganking montages are made on Oddessen because I can spawn camp some poor ****er until they rage quit.

 

Sorry but people who think any objective map is a mere opportunity for ganking montages are the reason objective PVP is in the bad situation it currently is in. Keep the ganking for arenas...

I can't believe someone admits in public that his best joy in a game is spawn camping and making poor people rage-quit games they join for fun [and this time, a justified rage-quit, not the usual rage-quit in which it is the personality of the quitter which is flawed by impatience, lack of social skills or inability to account for own mistakes]. Honestly, while I hate this kind of slogans, feelsbadman...

[Rafiknoll]

I don't like this WZ, because ppl always don't go for battle mods, and even if they go for them, they use them againts their own team(recently guy deactivate our dot).

 

I agree that is annoying, but that is a problem in the people, not in the warzone. People hate the fact that this game is dumbed down but hate Odessen because it is too intelligent for them (or they are fine, but it is too intelligent for others in their team).

[Rafiknoll]

Though I notice people don't call much on Odessen for some reason. Every other map people will call incoming but Odessen everyone stays quiet. Maybe they dont know what to call the nodes.

 

If that is the case, that's hilarious, because the nodes actually have icons, and there are words for these icons?

[Rafiknoll]

I tend to think people that can't even pull off 2k dps is the reason why pvp is so one sided. They can't win pvp because they don't know the first thing about mechanics and how to play a class. People like you get 3 caped and blame in on their team being bad. Killing players lead to objective that leads to wins.

 

In most huttballs that I win with a stomp, I deal less than 2k because I am busy carrying the ball and avoiding enemies, and they never get to pick the ball so I never need to kill anyone.

In most huttballs that I lose, I deal more than 2k because I am doing my best to damage their ball carrier (naturally they have more time as carriers in such games, compared to games in which I stomp), so I end up bursting my best on a healed targets for the most of the match.

 

So yes, the people who CHOOSE not to pull 2k DPS are the reason PVP is so one sides - in THEIR favor, against those too narrow-minded to do anything but do their best to pull the most DPS possible.

 

Killing players is one way that leads to objective, and in all maps there is always a far faster way to get the objective (even in huttball you gotta kill the ball carrier, but firepulls are a far better and faster technique than rotational damage. So I can easily get most ball carrier kills with the least damage dealt). A group of the best fighters in the world would get the 2 side nodes capped at the start of the match because they all went mid, and as long as the enemy group is decent and playing tactics, they will win because the narrow-minded group will either all charge a single node and it will result always in 2vs1 nodes against their favor, or the narrow-minded group will split randomly and good inc calls and responses will get to keep all their turrets and probably at some point cap mid because no one would "risk" guarding and thus having eventually less than 2k DPS...

 

In a tactical group, the best 1v1 player is the solo guard. That would essentially mean he will deal the least damage in the match unless he is often disturbed by people who can't learn a lesson and come 1 by 1. In a "numbers is everything group", if all 8 people share that mentality, I won't be surprised if the only healer in the group will end up guarding, or if there is never a guard at all...

[AlrikFassbauer]

The most basic rule of pvp is: kill the enemy.

 

You sound like someone successfully trained via Arenas.

 

On the other hand though, it's great for ganking. Most of my ganking montages are made on Oddessen because I can spawn camp some poor ****er until they rage quit.

 

I declare you hereby as a Troll.

Edited July 5, 2018 by AlrikFassbauer

[Rafiknoll]

I declare you hereby as a Troll.

 

Don't go that far. Few socially-wrong pleasures don't make someone a troll yet. People with the troll-gamer persona are usually far more consistent in being morons, and are morons in every aspect. At least via forums, it didn't seem like the case here.

 

P.S: I am not white-knighting. I "attacked" the very same thing you attack in my last post, and I took the chance to compensate a bit. Don't want to derail the argument into a forum fight.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Rafiknoll

[Banderal]

On the other hand though, it's great for ganking. Most of my ganking montages are made on Oddessen because I can spawn camp some poor ****er until they rage quit.

 

How can you spawn camp in OPG when they might spawn at a different spot on the other side of the map from where they did the time before?

[Rafiknoll]

How can you spawn camp in OPG when they might spawn at a different spot on the other side of the map from where they did the time before?

 

I actually forgot about that

And not to mention people don't die and spawn that often. So... It takes quite the dedication, doesn't pay off, and probably makes the camper more of a liability on his group than actual help.

And what if the spawned just runs down rather than fight? Even the best operative can't prevent him from managing that much, and then you either follow him (and you are no longer in the spawn) or let him go (failed camping).

To be honest, both the people who do such camping and the people who rage quit for it have done some misthinking...

[Banderal]

And what if the spawned just runs down rather than fight? Even the best operative can't prevent him from managing that much...

 

I guess it depends on the person being camped on. I remember, very early in my "PvP career", someone decided to spawn camp me in a huttball (original map). They were a stealth. I don't remember what class I was on, but it was a non-stealth. Being pretty new, there was nothing I knew how to do to get out of it. I just spawned, died in our own EZ, rinse repeat. Even if I spawned with several team mates at the same time, they would mezz me while everyone else ran off, and then when it was "clear" proceed with the beat down.

 

I have no idea why anyone on the other side of that considers it fun. "Woo hoo! I found someone I can easily beat, so I'm going to do that over and OVER and OVER the whole match!" Do you take candy from a baby too? Jeesh.

[Lundorff]

So end of the match your stats are something like this: 0 kills 0 deaths 150k dmg done, 50k dmg taken 20k objective score from afking at node while jerking off /netflix while nobody else gives rats *** about outcome of that ****zone and just want it to end fast to get into (hopefully) real map?

 

Too much damage!

[TmoneyTime]

In most huttballs that I win with a stomp, I deal less than 2k because I am busy carrying the ball and avoiding enemies, and they never get to pick the ball so I never need to kill anyone.

In most huttballs that I lose, I deal more than 2k because I am doing my best to damage their ball carrier (naturally they have more time as carriers in such games, compared to games in which I stomp), so I end up bursting my best on a healed targets for the most of the match.

 

So yes, the people who CHOOSE not to pull 2k DPS are the reason PVP is so one sides - in THEIR favor, against those too narrow-minded to do anything but do their best to pull the most DPS possible.

 

Killing players is one way that leads to objective, and in all maps there is always a far faster way to get the objective (even in huttball you gotta kill the ball carrier, but firepulls are a far better and faster technique than rotational damage. So I can easily get most ball carrier kills with the least damage dealt). A group of the best fighters in the world would get the 2 side nodes capped at the start of the match because they all went mid, and as long as the enemy group is decent and playing tactics, they will win because the narrow-minded group will either all charge a single node and it will result always in 2vs1 nodes against their favor, or the narrow-minded group will split randomly and good inc calls and responses will get to keep all their turrets and probably at some point cap mid because no one would "risk" guarding and thus having eventually less than 2k DPS...

 

In a tactical group, the best 1v1 player is the solo guard. That would essentially mean he will deal the least damage in the match unless he is often disturbed by people who can't learn a lesson and come 1 by 1. In a "numbers is everything group", if all 8 people share that mentality, I won't be surprised if the only healer in the group will end up guarding, or if there is never a guard at all...

 

 

Some one never played ranked 8v8s. Thats not at all how it works. This bores me Im checking out on this topic.

[Rafiknoll]

Some one never played ranked 8v8s. Thats not at all how it works. This bores me Im checking out on this topic.

 

Nice reasoning and detail out there. Anyway, I don't care how it used to be when there was rank. This is how it currently is. Unarguable reality.

And I have a lot of reasons to think if 8v8 ranked was back it would look same because mobility, survivability and stuns got increased by a lot since 8v8 ranked disappeared looong ago (pre 3.0). Any proof dependant on the old rank might as well be dependant on a different game...

You will need to do a lot better than that...

 

EDIT: I just found this in another thread. Very relevant here:

Yeah guys, DPS wins all teh games

So, is it I who does not understand how it works?

Edited July 6, 2018 by Rafiknoll

[jimmorrisson]

I will take Odesson Map over

 

1. Yavin Warzone - Features OVERBEARINGLY LOUD CANNONFIRE to the point where no one wants to guard, many quitting the map upon load.

 

2. Voidstar Warzone - Use EAST and WEST when calling out for help. East Door and West Door is actually used by match's narrator. (Yavin's map nodes are referred to as "Jungle" and Relics" due to their in game names on the map).

 

When guards call out LEFT or RIGHT which is dependent on the player's point of view. Many, if not most times when someone says "LEFT" players will rush to the other side.

 

3. Arena Warzones - While matches are quick - this map has way too many quitters do the team and opposing team's balance. Also should not reward less UAC currency than 8vs8 matches.

Edited July 5, 2018 by jimmorrisson

[-Bob-]

1. Yavin Warzone - Features OVERBEARINGLY LOUD CANNONFIRE to the point where no one wants to guard, many quitting the map upon load.

That is literally the dumbest thing i have ever heard. If you are too lazy to reach over and adjust the output gain of your electromagnetic speaker system with the provided potentiometer or fader, then you sir have a life problem!

[MackPol]

I don’t like the OPG thing. It’s not a wz.

Map is too big and running around it is boring. It’s rng element is just crazy idea for pvp.

[Stellarcrusade]

Why? Is it better to lose that node to enemy team if you cannot hold it?

I'm not talking about sabotage.

 

Tactically you are right, and I do appreciate ANYTHING that adds to the intelligence of a warzone, except its not worth keeping if people can sabotage. Think of a solution that we can get rid of the sabotage and keep this maneuver and I'm for it.

[helpmewin]

With dat game mechanic its just stupid map. U came to the spot and what u've see here? Healers + tanks - healers +healers fights untill the new ones came. Or face tanky fights untill 1 lost their Dcd-s - h2full/immune/****-bubble/roll-kek - roll-kek, then another, then th 4-rs. Pfffff. Not fun. Edited July 6, 2018 by helpmewin

[Banderal]

Tactically you are right, and I do appreciate ANYTHING that adds to the intelligence of a warzone, except its not worth keeping if people can sabotage. Think of a solution that we can get rid of the sabotage and keep this maneuver and I'm for it.

 

I don't think that's possible. Pretty much no matter what abilities you put into the game, douche-bags will find a way to use them for "less than intended purposes" (in my opinion/experience). We'd have to take away passing the huttball, because you can pass to an enemy if you want to sabotage. Take away running with the ball, because you can run to the other side, and then die to give them an easy score. Take away any movement, because you can move to a place to let the enemy leap/port to you for an easy score. I've seen people do all of these, and it's not rare.

 

In other WZs, you can friendly pull your own team and stop a cap. Or operatives can use their group stealth to stop a cap. I've seen people do that pretty blatantly on purpose too (although, I think usually so they can get the "cap medal" instead of you).

 

You can use any attack to break a mezz, and thus allow the enemy to stop a team mate's cap. (Which, of course, happens all the time, even if not maliciously.) So remove all attacks. In AHG, you can grab an orb, and then purposely die, not only denying your own team the orb, but also giving the enemy points.

 

I think the list goes on.

 

Jerks will be jerks. I don't think it's useful to try to design abilities around how they might be misused.

[TrixxieTriss]

 

EDIT: I just found this in another thread. Very relevant here:

 

https://m.imgur.com/a/xhcHQcr

 

So, is it I who does not understand how it works?

 

LoL, Rekt.

 

I’m glad you found that link. It just shows how bad those dps farmers are at objective pvp.

 

Dps doesn’t win matches if you don’t play the objectives and use the gray matter between your ears.

 

I’ve heard, “it’s doesnt matter how big it is, if you don’t know how to use it”

Edited July 7, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Knowing yourself and acting preemptively is noble. But knowing yourself, staying and resisting the urge of toxicity is admirable. I would suggest you take your chances from time to time. Half my Odessens are amazing games.

 

I took your advice yesterday and tried staying for every Odessen pop and there were a lot on SF last night (and Hutt Ball).

By the end of every Odessen match I was aggravated and asked myself why I was bothering. Only 2 matches out of about 11-12, did I feel like my team tried to win and even then we lost.

 

It really ruined my mood and I found it hard to enjoy pvp for the rest of the night in other maps. I became hypercritical of my teams performance, especially in HB.

It’s what led me to make this thread last night after being on teams where people kept getting lept to because they were standing on ledges. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9621419#post9621419

 

I’m sorry to say, but I’ve better things to do with my time than staying in an Odessen WZ, like doing my nails 💅🏻

I will be leaving every pop from now on because it’s a “Debbie downer” to my mood if I stay.

[Rafiknoll]

I took your advice yesterday and tried staying for every Odessen pop and there were a lot on SF last night (and Hutt Ball).

By the end of every Odessen match I was aggravated and asked myself why I was bothering. Only 2 matches out of about 11-12, did I feel like my team tried to win and even then we lost.

 

Sad for your experience but that gotta be bad luck. After all, for each of your losses 8 people were on the winning side (and being already X-fac, there is no other explanation). Either that or you always got a premade in the opposition. Hopefully, the new matchmaking would make it more of a 50-50 chance to win for better role distribution (+ "secret reg rating" matchmaking). I would suggest retrying after 5.9.2. Having the worse team each and every time never makes statistical sense but after the patch, it should be even more impossible.

[TrixxieTriss]

Sad for your experience but that gotta be bad luck. After all, for each of your losses 8 people were on the winning side (and being already X-fac, there is no other explanation). Either that or you always got a premade in the opposition. Hopefully, the new matchmaking would make it more of a 50-50 chance to win for better role distribution (+ "secret reg rating" matchmaking). I would suggest retrying after 5.9.2. Having the worse team each and every time never makes statistical sense but after the patch, it should be even more impossible.

 

That’s not the one and only time I’ve had this experience. I would say 90% of my experience with Odessen in the last 9 months has been like that.

 

The other teams won because they had 1 or 2 people more than us who tried to win. none of my teams tried to win. I was basically the only one on my team who tried. That’s more RNG than opening tier 4 crates and getting something good.

 

I don’t play to RNG 1-2 people who will play the objectives in Odessen. It’s bad enough having to do it for gear. Other maps RNG sucks too, but Odessen is by far the worst because people can’t see what’s going on and just play follow the gank squad.

 

I literally had teams the other night that would all run north at the start, even though mid and south opened up and north didn’t.

 

From my experiences from the last 9 months. There is no 50/50 chance to win Odessen. I see people pop and leave and try and pop on the other team so all the bads are on the one team.

 

I know you disagree with my perspective. That’s cool, I’m glad someone has some optimism around here. But I’ve given Odessen it’s last chance and won’t be playing it ever again.

Edited July 8, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[jimmorrisson]

That is literally the dumbest thing i have ever heard. If you are too lazy to reach over and adjust the output gain of your electromagnetic speaker system with the provided potentiometer or fader, then you sir have a life problem!

 

This reply was used before in the half dozen other topics regarding Yavin Warzone's obnoxiously loud cannonfire. Here is someone else's response to the "just turn down sound" reply:

 

Agreed.

 

Sure we can adjust it like other people are saying, but why should we have to when this is obviously something that needs to be fixed.

 

In the mean time, we will obviously find our own work arounds to dealing with it. But it does need to be fixed.

 

The obvious replies from some people here offering unsolicited advice on how to deal with it, come off as a bit snarky and I’m sure most haven’t even played the WZ yet.

 

So guys, please stop, we arent as dumb as you are trying to make out, most of us have already taken steps to turn it down, but that just means the volume is too low for ever other part of the game.

 

So, if you arent here to ask Bioware to turn it down or say you think it’s fine as is (people may think that it is), then please stop with the unsolicited advice that 99% of people have already worked out by themselves

 

Reminder: When new Warzones are introduced - Bioware places the new map into preferred heavy rotation.

 

When Yavin Warzone was introduced, the map was in preferred rotation for well over a month. Furthermore, given that both American servers are now East Coast - during certain points in the day, both Odessen and Yavin maps are the only maps which load as both are cross faction.

[Iona_Var]

For me it all depends on your team. I don't hate odessen. I've had some pretty good matches on there. it's just you have to play objectives. if you don't, you lose. simple as that

[TrixxieTriss]

This reply was used before in the half dozen other topics regarding Yavin Warzone's obnoxiously loud cannonfire. Here is someone else's response to the "just turn down sound" reply:

 

Reminder: When new Warzones are introduced - Bioware places the new map into preferred heavy rotation.

 

When Yavin Warzone was introduced, the map was in preferred rotation for well over a month. Furthermore, given that both American servers are now East Coast - during certain points in the day, both Odessen and Yavin maps are the only maps which load as both are cross faction.

 

I’ve actually got used to it now, that I don’t turn it down or even think about it. But I can see how it can still be a problem if you were trying to be quiet or wearing headphones.

 

It won’t be long now till we have crossfaction in every map. 12 days if they don’t push back the patch again.

Edited July 27, 2018 by TrixxieTriss