Lundorff Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) I decided to play and analyses 100 matches on my fury mara, and I have tried to gather some sense of the data below. I am well aware that 100 matches is inadequate for a truly meaningful dissection, but the picture that has emerged is one I have seen far too often. Caveat: The screenshots below are only focused on dps, and by its nature it can not show how often someone have cc'ed, pulled, interrupted, been on target, called the right or wrong strategy etc. Someone could be doing the most glorious dps imaginable, but it would be meaningless on the wrong target. I can only say that I try to be on the agreed upon target, while also helping my team with as much cc / pred as possible. Matches 1-10 Matches 11-20 Matches 21-30 Matches 31-40 Matches 41-50 Matches 51-60 Matches 61-70 Matches 71-80 Matches 81-90 Matches 91-100 Damage: Of the 100 matches we had a total of 319 actual dps classes (I am disregarding off-healers and tanks). This means that I should be doing 31.34% of total dps damage spread across all matches. Total dps damage for these matches was 175734847 and of this my damage was 67382231. This means I have done 38.34% of all dps damage across these 100 matches. Again, raw dps is not everything, but it's the only thing I can measure with this data, and I wanted to see if I was pulling my weight on the dps front. Broken matches: I had a total of 20 matches that was broken in some unmistakable fashion (wintrader, thrower, troll, healer/tank vs. no healer tank etc.). In this statistic I have not included bad players. 11 of these matches was to my advantage and 9 was to my disadvantage. In total my net elo loss was only 3. ELO: A visual graph to illustrate how my rating went. Ups and downs: I reached 1467 and then crashed to 1356 before turning it around. Looking through the screenshots, I would argue that it's not me suddenly playing terrible, but rather that I began pulling in worse players so that the matches basically became 4 v 3. We were only able to win match 38 because healer was so much better than theirs. I did not play well in match 39, but I knew beforehand that it was a loss due to our mara. Match 41 had a bad healer. And 42 with the healer leaving. 43 with trash mara. 44 with... blah. This is what constantly happens once I get an inkling of momentum going. Later on I came back to 1471 and once again it crashed. Match 81 was with the worst sniper in existence and he left after 1 first round. Match 83 was with a terrible tank that didn't guard and only focused on dps, and we had a terrible sorc. Match 84 was 4 v 3. Match 85 was with 2 terrible maras and against a good sniper and 2 decent mercs that off-healed like crazy. Match 86 was 4 v 3. Match 89 was 4 v 3. Match 90 we got a <700 elo merc and on it went. What can I conclude: a) I can not play better than this, but I also think I am (mostly) doing my part. b) There are far to many broken matches, but it evens out more than I originally thought. I will no longer use these as an excuse. c) Many of my lost matches was when grouped with tanks. It seems to be a total crapshoot. d) I have become much better at dealing with damage, but when I am forced to camo to heal, my team mates are often dead once I return. I don't know if I need to be more cynical, and stop playing when I begin to pull in insta-kill players. Or to go tank myself, when there are too many terrible tanks in queue. I prefer to just play, but it seems to be the antithesis of climbing. And finally I would welcome any comments or suggestions for improvements (or encouragement lol), but kindly keep the snark to a minimum. Edited June 21, 2018 by Lundorff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Looks fair to me. Looks like your elo is hovering around 1400. Have you considered that that’s where you skill level belongs to have enjoyable games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 Looks fair to me. Looks like your elo is hovering around 1400. Have you considered that that’s where you skill level belongs to have enjoyable games? Yes I have considered this many times, but if you look at the matches from the peaks of 1467 and 1471 there is nothing I can do. I can not see how anyone is capable of winning these 4 v 3 matches or dealing with insta-kill players or terrible tanks. I would love to see similar statistics from gold rated dps players. If these players are capable of doing ~50% of dps and winning these seemingly unwinnable matches, then sure, I will know my place and be done. I just don't see how that is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) Yes I have considered this many times, but if you look at the matches from the peaks of 1467 and 1471 there is nothing I can do. I can not see how anyone is capable of winning these 4 v 3 matches or dealing with insta-kill players or terrible tanks. I would love to see similar statistics from gold rated dps players. If these players are capable of doing ~50% of dps and winning these seemingly unwinnable matches, then sure, I will know my place and be done. I just don't see how that is possible. the thing is when you peak and you get vs situations where "there is nothing you can do", that happens to everyone in ranked. Gold players don't magically get all competitive good games, everyone deals with the same things in ranked. for example my friend who plays sorc dp sin solo ranked is hovering around 1600, he has a lot of 2k rated toons. he isn't hovering in 1600 because he is a bad player, he told me he is there because sorc is his weakest class and the meta. the 1600 placement is where he is suppose to be and there is nothing wrong with that. 2K is realistically suppose to be very hard to get. that means 99% of players will not be getting it. everyone just assumes they are the 1% when they are not. that is reality Edited June 21, 2018 by kissingaiur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 There is no point going tank because you will soon be limited to how many there are per match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 the thing is when you peak and you get vs situations where "there is nothing you can do", that happens to everyone in ranked. Gold players don't magically get all competitive good games, everyone deals with the same things in ranked. But if I am stuck at 1400 because that is my level, while others can go to 2k then they must by definition be doing something else if they are getting the same matches. It completely eludes me how - without cheating - someone could be doing more than I have in these matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 There is no point going tank because you will soon be limited to how many there are per match. This is ranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenalinezs Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 git gud kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) But if I am stuck at 1400 because that is my level, while others can go to 2k then they must by definition be doing something else if they are getting the same matches. It completely eludes me how - without cheating - someone could be doing more than I have in these matches. thing about ranked is you have to be winning against teams with higher elo to claim faster and not losing matches when its in your favor. that is step one. step two is winning matches where it could go either way, both teams are even so individual play comes out in these games. step three is to play a class that is fotm of the meta (its fotm for a reason; the class carries), playing a jug dps for example and expecting your "skill" to carry you isn't realistic. all the 2k players i know are all extremely knowledgeable about the game, they also play almost every class. they have so much game knowledge and understand how to carry sometimes winning 3v4s or doubling their teams dps to win games. you just have to practice and learn. claiming isn't magic, 1% are actually good at the game. their average game play is much higher then the people below them Edited June 21, 2018 by kissingaiur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow_ Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) But if I am stuck at 1400 because that is my level, while others can go to 2k then they must by definition be doing something else if they are getting the same matches. It completely eludes me how - without cheating - someone could be doing more than I have in these matches.it is impossible to play a team fight perfectly, the best you can hope for is to play it as correctly as you can - there is quite literally always room for improvement there are also intangibles like taking on the role of calling a strat for your team and being positive (as opposed to telling them to kill themselves which some people prefer) Edited June 21, 2018 by yellow_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 This is ranked. True, but how many tanks can be in the queue till to pops slow down or you have too many tanks in matches. I guess you need to decide wether rating is more important than playing your preferred spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) True, but how many tanks can be in the queue till to pops slow down or you have too many tanks in matches. I guess you need to decide wether rating is more important than playing your preferred spec. Wut? In SR there can only ever be 1 tank on either side. The coming changes are not going to affect this in the least. Edited June 21, 2018 by Lundorff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 thing about ranked is you have to be winning against teams with higher elo to claim faster and not losing matches when its in your favor. that is step one. step two is winning matches where it could go either way, both teams are even so individual play comes out in these games. step three is to play a class that is fotm of the meta (its fotm for a reason; the class carries), playing a jug dps for example and expecting your "skill" to carry you isn't realistic. all the 2k players i know are all extremely knowledgeable about the game, they also play almost every class. they have so much game knowledge and understand how to carry sometimes winning 3v4s or doubling their teams dps to win games. you just have to practice and learn. claiming isn't magic, 1% are actually good at the game. their average game play is much higher then the people below them Well yes, but i can only do so much on my own (1, 2). If we are essentially fighting 4 v 3, then I need my 2 team mates to be capable. And throughout these 100 matches, I am not seeing other maras pulling significantly higher numbers. Even Citrin didn't do that much more than myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Well yes, but i can only do so much on my own (1, 2). If we are essentially fighting 4 v 3, then I need my 2 team mates to be capable. And throughout these 100 matches, I am not seeing other maras pulling significantly higher numbers. Even Citrin didn't do that much more than myself. Sometimes in solo ranked you will get games that are losses, you have to accept that, everyone gets them. In solo ranked yes, DPS/numbers matter but what will carry you in more games is, peeling effectively, surviving the longest, having clutch ccs, team work (calling good strats for your team) while doing the good dps. Even above average players cannot do this all effectively, that is why 2K is the 1% of the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 Sometimes in solo ranked you will get games that are losses, you have to accept that, everyone gets them. I have +800 matches on my dps jugg. I am familiar with losses Even above average players cannot do this all effectively, that is why 2K is the 1% of the population. My only aspiration right now is the silver bracket heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metthew Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Of the 100 matches we had a total of 319 actual dps classes (I am disregarding off-healers and tanks). This means that I should be doing 31.34% of total dps damage spread across all matches.That does not follow, classes which are focused first will end up doing less than 25% of damage in 4DPS games if they drop for example, or a burst class can pull lower numbers while still contributing optimally. Just wanted to point this out. That being said, I'd have liked to see the names attached so I can actually compare your assessment with mine own knowledge of the server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 That does not follow, classes which are focused first will end up doing less than 25% of damage in 4DPS games if they drop for example, or a burst class can pull lower numbers while still contributing optimally. Just wanted to point this out. Yup that is all correct, but it is the only thing I can measure. For a a none dot spec I think I am pulling reasonable dps in a general sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyroman Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Another important thing for getting higher ranked is to know when to queue. Ride the ups and hop off of the downs before they destroy your rating too much. If you notice you are constantly getting paired with better players then you definitely don’t want to stop queueing but if you are constantly getting queued with players a lot worse than you against players that are a lot better then it might be time to take a break. I never played ranked enough to fully know how to do this optimally but my cutoff was usually 3 bad teams in a row or 4 of 5 games. This won’t help a ton since you still have to have the skill to climb and not be the cause of your team’s loss but it should reduce the amount of times you have a team that is uncarryable or has a very low chance of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Another important thing for getting higher ranked is to know when to queue. Ride the ups and hop off of the downs before they destroy your rating too much. If you notice you are constantly getting paired with better players then you definitely don’t want to stop queueing but if you are constantly getting queued with players a lot worse than you against players that are a lot better then it might be time to take a break. I never played ranked enough to fully know how to do this optimally but my cutoff was usually 3 bad teams in a row or 4 of 5 games. This won’t help a ton since you still have to have the skill to climb and not be the cause of your team’s loss but it should reduce the amount of times you have a team that is uncarryable or has a very low chance of winning. This is why I don't like ranked. It's as much about gaming the system as having any form of real skill. Solo ranked is all about what team gets the better makeup, Quesyncing, etc. Team ranked came down to who had the better composition, but that really has little relevance here. Basically, judge me all you want, but I don't see how "knowing when to queue" makes you any better a player than anyone else. It makes you better at playing the system. I guess it's fun for some people, my ego is healthy enough to where I'd rather go do what I enjoy than grind away elo just to see a bigger, practically meaningless, number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissingaiur Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 This is why I don't like ranked. It's as much about gaming the system as having any form of real skill. Solo ranked is all about what team gets the better makeup, Quesyncing, etc. Team ranked came down to who had the better composition, but that really has little relevance here. Basically, judge me all you want, but I don't see how "knowing when to queue" makes you any better a player than anyone else. It makes you better at playing the system. I guess it's fun for some people, my ego is healthy enough to where I'd rather go do what I enjoy than grind away elo just to see a bigger, practically meaningless, number. when you play vs two high skilled team ranked teams, i assure you skill is involved. all competitive team ranked teams now run literally the comps anyways; that is why those players are consistently high rated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow_ Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) It's as much about gaming the system as having any form of real skill. Solo ranked is all about what team gets the better makeup, Quesyncing, etc.this is, at best, a huge exaggeration but if it makes you feel better I understand Edited June 21, 2018 by yellow_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
septru Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 And finally I would welcome any comments or suggestions for improvements (or encouragement lol), but kindly keep the snark to a minimum. You are analyzing why you loose ranked games.... with numbers. If you want any real analysis, any real suggestions you need to take a video or stream. Using numbers to analyze wins and losses is as irrelevant as talking about PVE dps potential in the PVP forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metthew Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) You are analyzing why you loose ranked games.... with numbers. If you want any real analysis, any real suggestions you need to take a video or stream. Using numbers to analyze wins and losses is as irrelevant as talking about PVE dps potential in the PVP forums.+++ I'll reiterate that seeing names would at least allow those of us on DM to place where the OP stands and whether the judgement he/she makes on his/her teammates are correct. The numbers analysis did show that the broken games (throwers etc.) were overall equal for OP in the end though, so there's some stuff in there. Edited June 21, 2018 by Metthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 You are analyzing why you loose ranked games.... with numbers. If you want any real analysis, any real suggestions you need to take a video or stream. Using numbers to analyze wins and losses is as irrelevant as talking about PVE dps potential in the PVP forums. Video of multiple wins and losses would be optimal sure. But saying that numbers are irrelevant is just ignorant. If my dps had been in the 20-25% range, then that would have told me a lot. With my numbers being at 38%, I am clearly doing my part on that front. Again, it doesn't reflect whether or nor those numbers are on point, but at least it is a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 +++ I'll reiterate that seeing names would at least allow those of us on DM to place where the OP stands and whether the judgement he/she makes on his/her teammates are correct. The numbers analysis did show that the broken games (throwers etc.) were overall equal for OP in the end though, so there's some stuff in there. All of this was on SS. I am not going to name anyone, as I am being rather verbal in my description in some of these matches. And yes the broken matches numbers were interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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