Why is the PvP community so hostile?

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

First I'll just say I'm not talking about every PvP player out there, I've run into quite a bit of decent folk who don't give you flak so long as you're trying.

 

However, it seems the more vocal players tend to be incredibly more hostile, especially to people who don't play PvP unless they have to. I suck at PvP, I'll say that right now. I play the objective as best as I can but 9/10 I'll lose whatever battle I get into. I'm a story player and the only time I get into PvP is either when the story calls for it (i.e Trooper companion requires 20 warzone matches) or when it's a conquest objective. I don't care about what gear I have or if it's BiS, so long as it gets me through the content I run then I'm fine and I mainly focus on a rotation that fits how I play and not the "best" way to play the class I am. Yet when I make a mistake like not using a DCD at the exact time I was supposed to or not attacking the right person in a group of 5 enemies I get chewed out for it. I usually respond with "Sorry, I don't play much PvP." and that only seems to set them off even more and they'll go on about not joining the queue if I don't know how to play or start throwing insults. Normally I just ignore that player and move on but it seems that recently there has been a large increase in the number of hostile PvP players I've been coming across. I understand it sucks to lose, I understand that people should want to win when they play competitively but does telling people to stay out and calling them names actually solve anything?

 

This is all unranked as well so it's not like it's THAT big a deal. I don't know. I just lost any interest in PvP now and if there ever was a time that I'd actually want to invest myself into it, I think these recent weeks have just made me give up on that idea as a whole.

 

@ the OP

 

You're fine dude. You didn't do anything wrong. I give you a lot of credit for haven the stones. Don't let anyone tell you did wrong because you can't do wrong if you are trying your best. Everyone one of us was just like you when we started PVPing. Don't let anyone effect where you go or what your do, all u need to do is try your best, if you do that and you are upfront, you'll hold the moral high ground.

 

One small piece of advise if I may and this is in regard to dealing with Toxicity. Responding to unprovoked Toxicity when you are trying your best in kind is NOT toxicity, it's manning up.

 

No one can give any more than their best and as long as you are giving your best, F everyone else.

 

Skill won't stop toxicity, it will lesson it, but it won't stop it. Everyone gets called 'bad' sometimes even when they are great friggen players. I've seen players be called bad by people who they did 2 or 3 times as much damage in and people who most everyone regards as skilled get that questioned on occassion.

 

Everyone think's they are a super star and everyone is shytters to everyone else. Ranked/ reg arenas, its all the same crap.

 

Some unkind words and getting your *** kicked here and there, that don't end the world. The world ends when you're dead, but until than, you've got more punishment in store, stand it like a man and give some back.

 

If ya gotta go out, go out swinging. Flames of blazes of glory, they really don't hurt that bad.

 

Die well =]

Edited June 21, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[alexsamma]

So what you are essentially saying is that people who just start PVPing and are still learning are Toxic? How the hell else are the suppose to learn PVP without doing it? Through Osmosis?

.

 

Not reading your entire post, but you specifically left out the part where I said "he doesn't care about getting better."

 

I suck at PvP, I'll say that right now. I play the objective as best as I can but 9/10 I'll lose whatever battle I get into. I'm a story player and the only time I get into PvP is either when the story calls for it (i.e Trooper companion requires 20 warzone matches) or when it's a conquest objective. I don't care about what gear I have or if it's BiS, so long as it gets me through the content I run then I'm fine and I mainly focus on a rotation that fits how I play and not the "best" way to play the class I am.

 

I have zero issues with someone sucking at pvp who is playing because they want to play and try their best, but when people come into group play to pursue selfish goals (like grab their 1000000000th companion) and they express no interest in learning how to play their class effectively that is an entirely different story.

 

Stop cherry picking segments of a comment to make a podium to stand on.

Edited June 21, 2018 by alexsamma

[alexsamma]

I think this is pretty accurate too. ^

 

Much of the "toxicity" is just someone venting, and having no other outlet available to themselves, or an inability to find another way to vent.

 

btw, HI Alex! Are you back from a break, or have you just been lurking for the past few months? I only recently seen you posting again! Good to see you here regardless. What server do you play now?

 

Ditto, noticed you posting again, are you still playing Everquest?

 

I come and go and really try to avoid posting on the forums.

 

I play on SF, SS, and DM depending on where my friends are playing.

[casirabit]

Not reading your entire post, but you specifically left out the part where I said "he doesn't care about getting better."

 

 

 

I have zero issues with someone sucking at pvp who is playing because they want to play and try their best, but when people come into group play to pursue selfish goals (like grab their 1000000000th companion) and they express no interest in learning how to play their class effectively that is an entirely different story.

 

Stop cherry picking segments of a comment to make a podium to stand on.

 

Maybe you need to go back and read the other posts the OP has posted. I have seen quite a few of the post OP has posted that has stated that he does try his best, which you may have missed if you didn't read some of his other posts.

[alexsamma]

I wasn't asking for pity. I was asking why the PvP community seems to have the highest amount of people that feel the need to harass someone. If you read some of my responses you would see some of the specifics I get into regarding it, I also elaborate a bit more on my preparedness and my weight pulling as well. It's not like I wasn't trying in the matches or I was way undergeared (didn't bother going in until I was 240). I actually took a lot of steps before I went in to actually prepare but since PvP isn't my main focus I wasn't going to divert hours and hours of my time and resources to it to be the absolute best ever. I gave enough to be considered sufficient for the average unranked match but I don't believe that should justify someone going and targeting me or anyone else for that matter with insults that extend beyond the match itself and into whispers afterwards, which seems to happen more frequently in PvP than anything else I've run.

 

 

 

Yeah I mean the whole point of this was to point out the harassment that you get from PvP players, which in my experience has been significantly more prevalent compared to pretty much everything else in the game outside of DK general chat. There is no justification for it. Thankfully there are more people condemning it over trying to justify it. So as I stated in the first line of my OP there are good people in PvP.

 

 

I've read your initial post multiple times and the part that sticks with me is that you only pvp when you feel that you have to (to get a companion or to help with conquest) and you also specifically stated that you are not interested in learning how to play your character more effectively.

 

I'm not condoning raging, I was simply explaining why I think people rage and pointing out that in my opinion, based on reading your initial post, your attitude and approach is toxic.

Edited June 21, 2018 by alexsamma

[alexsamma]

Maybe you need to go back and read the other posts the OP has posted. I have seen quite a few of the post OP has posted that has stated that he does try his best, which you may have missed if you didn't read some of his other posts.

 

There are 11 pages of replies, I've skimmed through them and read a few of his posts, frankly I feel like he was backpeddling based on some of the initial responses but I admit that I may be wrong.

 

Regardless, the op's initial post paints the picture of someone who doesn't care about pvp and definitely isn't someone who is there to enjoy pvp and learn; if that's not true then he did a poor job explaining himself in his initial post or has done a complete 180.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I've read your initial post multiple times and the part that sticks with me is that you only pvp when you feel that you have to (to get a companion or to help with conquest) and you also specifically stated that you are not interested in learning how to play your character more effectively.

 

I'm not condoning raging, I was simply explaining why I think people rage and pointing out that in my opinion, based on reading your initial post, your attitude and approach is toxic.

 

Nobody is in this game for altruistic reasons. Everyone who plays wants something for themselves and we always hear about players who want rewards for various activities.

 

IMHO it would be more effective to blame the devs for gating content/rewards behind content people don't want to do. If they gate rewards behind group content, yes, people are going to grudgingly do it to get it over with and they're not going to care very much or put very much time into it.

 

But if other players yell and rage at that player it's not exactly going to inspire them to want to learn more or come back. It's going to make it even more of a chore when they are required to do that content again.

Edited June 21, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[alexsamma]

Nobody is in this game for altruistic reasons. Everyone who plays wants something for themselves and we always hear about players who want rewards for various activities.

 

IMHO it would be more effective to blame the devs for gating content/rewards behind content people don't want to do. If they gate rewards behind group content, yes, people are going to grudgingly do it to get it over with and they're not going to care very much or put very much time into it.

 

But if other players yell and rage at that player it's not exactly going to inspire them to want to learn more or come back. It's going to make it even more of a chore when they are required to do that content again.

 

Once again, I didn't condone raging.

 

I don't think you can classify gating one companion out of the crazy amount of companions we have access to behind pvp as poor design.

 

I won't speak to conquest since I don't take part in it, but is pursuing the bonus objective really a necessity? If pursuing the bonus conquest objective is considered necessary then I agree that's poor game design and a better design would be to offer players a choice between different objectives/tracks.

 

There are tons of design changes I would love to see implemented in SWTOR but at the end of the day the only thing players have control over are their own actions; and in the case the OP described I saw two examples of toxicity, not one.

Edited June 21, 2018 by alexsamma

[IoNonSoEVero]

Once again, I didn't condone raging.

 

I don't think you can classify gating one companion out of the crazy amount of companions we have access to behind pvp as poor design.

 

I won't speak to conquest since I don't take part in it, but is pursuing the bonus objective really a necessity? If pursuing the bonus conquest objective is considered necessary then I agree that's poor game design and a better design would be to offer players a choice between different objectives/tracks.

 

There are tons of design changes I would love to see implemented in SWTOR but at the end of the day the only thing players have control over are their own actions; and in the case the OP described I saw two examples of toxicity, not one.

 

I don't think we really *need* to do very much in this game - but people have their own reasons for wanting one reward or another. For myself, if something is gated behind PvP I will not do it at all even if it is something I'd like. I did one thing that was gated behind group play but will not do that again either if I can help it.

 

But the companion may be important to a player for various reasons, and not everyone has a lot of them. If you're in a class story and find the starter companion insufferable for instance, that reward companion that you can unlock through Legacy might be the only other one you've got unless you have a lot of coins to drop on a CM animal.

 

I can't speak to conquest, either - but again IMHO it *is* poor design to gate something like a companion or story ending behind group play.

 

It doesn't have a good outcome for anyone. It does not work well for the people who actually want to participate, because you end up dealing with people who truly don't GAD and don't want to be there. It doesn't work well for the people who don't GAD because they waste their time playing something they don't want to play.

[Sundown]

Nobody is in this game for altruistic reasons. Everyone who plays wants something for themselves and we always hear about players who want rewards for various activities.

 

IMHO it would be more effective to blame the devs for gating content/rewards behind content people don't want to do. If they gate rewards behind group content, yes, people are going to grudgingly do it to get it over with and they're not going to care very much or put very much time into it.

Then again every player is responsible for his own actions and choices. While I would never accept any kind of harrassment or bullying I do understand that it can get really frustrating to have selfish people in your group effectively destroying your fun.

 

The problem with PvP is: as per design you finish a match and for any reward (daily/weekly/companion) the result of the match will basically just have an impact on the numbers of matches you need to play. In principle that is good, because any other solution would effectively kill PvP for sure, but that does not encourage/force people to actually work together to win. In an FP or Op you can carry worse players to a certain extend, but someone who just follows and does not help will be kicked or might lead to the group not finishing at all...

in PvP you are helpless, and this can definitely lead to rage because of frustration.

 

Again: this does not make it any better to really harrass players, but selfishly going into PvP matches and not playing the match for real is just as rude. Passive aggressive behaviour is just as bad as aggressive one.

 

Just saying, the OP tries to stress he is not such a person, so that is fine with me.

[Celise]

First I'll just say I'm not talking about every PvP player out there, I've run into quite a bit of decent folk who don't give you flak so long as you're trying.

 

However, it seems the more vocal players tend to be incredibly more hostile, especially to people who don't play PvP unless they have to. I suck at PvP, I'll say that right now. I play the objective as best as I can but 9/10 I'll lose whatever battle I get into. I'm a story player and the only time I get into PvP is either when the story calls for it (i.e Trooper companion requires 20 warzone matches) or when it's a conquest objective. I don't care about what gear I have or if it's BiS, so long as it gets me through the content I run then I'm fine and I mainly focus on a rotation that fits how I play and not the "best" way to play the class I am. Yet when I make a mistake like not using a DCD at the exact time I was supposed to or not attacking the right person in a group of 5 enemies I get chewed out for it. I usually respond with "Sorry, I don't play much PvP." and that only seems to set them off even more and they'll go on about not joining the queue if I don't know how to play or start throwing insults. Normally I just ignore that player and move on but it seems that recently there has been a large increase in the number of hostile PvP players I've been coming across. I understand it sucks to lose, I understand that people should want to win when they play competitively but does telling people to stay out and calling them names actually solve anything?

 

This is all unranked as well so it's not like it's THAT big a deal. I don't know. I just lost any interest in PvP now and if there ever was a time that I'd actually want to invest myself into it, I think these recent weeks have just made me give up on that idea as a whole.

 

PvP will always be a toxic place so long as people are always looking to be super competitive with each other. the more competitive they get the poisonous it gets and the more likely it turns into stat padding and other types of cheating to have the bragging right to be the best. best at what? i have no idea since at that point they would be so far in their own private wars they don't recognise what the point of it was to begin with.

 

just don't engage with the PvP community any more than you need to.

[Eshvara]

I don't know who you're referring to, but me (and many others) are not supporting harassment, but understanding why some players feel frustrated. Hardcore pvp players are forced to play with casuals who only pvp once a month. Yes, it's unreasonable to demand those casuals spend hours gearing up and reading guides just so they can do the occasional warzone. However, it's unreasonable to demand those hardcore pvp players are not allowed to be annoyed or frustrated. They have feelings too.

 

Understanding goes both ways -- and I say this as someone who, years ago, stopped occasional max level pvping mostly because people in the forums were quite...unpleasant to me when I admitted I didn't have that good gear. Why? Because I only did max level pvp maybe once a month and felt my gear was adequate for that. Back then I didn't feel people had the right to be upset with me, but now... I understand. I maintain my belief that someone who rarely does pvp should be allowed to be less skilled and less geared than those who do it a lot, but I get why someone could be upset by it.

 

I think, when talking about harassment in this context, we should first determine what we mean by harassment. I think it's, even if not pleasant, understandable if someone calls you dumb because you made a dumb mistake. It's also understandable if someone makes a sarcastic comment about it, or if someone declares the team hopeless because no one's playing objectives. it's not nice, but it's not harassment in my book. However, long rants about how terrible some player is, or continuous whispers after a match? That's just ridiculous and rude, and I'd like to think most pvp players agree with me here -- even if they relate to the frustration. My understanding ends there.

 

Pretty much agree with everything said here. I do see *sometimes* someone being called dumb escalate into something more, especially if someone is trying to defend themselves. But yeah, that's the fault of the individual.

[TrixxieTriss]

Pretty much agree with everything said here. I do see *sometimes* someone being called dumb escalate into something more, especially if someone is trying to defend themselves. But yeah, that's the fault of the individual.

 

Language and intent are everything. If it’s frustration that boils over and someone says that was dumb or you’re all hopeless, that’s not harassment. But as soon as people start slinging personal insults like scrub, L2P, uninstall or worse, then it become abusive and when that continues through the match or in PMs, that becomes harassment.

 

It works both ways as well. If you boil over in frustration because your team is not trying to win and get told to shut up or leave if you don’t like it or it’s only regs “calm down” and much worse (which I can’t repeat), it only makes the situation worse and tempers can explode between both people or groups.

 

I’ve been at boiling point because I’m carrying the whole team and had all of that and more said to me by half the team, when all I needed was for them to not run off and leave a node undefended or one or two of them help me score or my pet hate, following me when I’m trying pull their whole team to give mine a numbers advantage.

 

I use to lose my s**t at them when they responded like that. Now I just say “enjoy your loss and less CXP, I’m not carrying you” and then I leave the match. I won’t let losers like that get under my skin anymore and I’m not going to carry them if they won’t try.

What’s really sad is they often PM me and abuse me for rage quitting after they’ve insulted me. They blame me for losing because they had less people, but they were always going to lose because they weren’t trying to win.

As far as I’m concerned, insulting me or worse in the game and then PMing me after the match to abuse me more is harassment.

[Asmodesu]

-snip-

 

I think, when talking about harassment in this context, we should first determine what we mean by harassment. I think it's, even if not pleasant, understandable if someone calls you dumb because you made a dumb mistake. It's also understandable if someone makes a sarcastic comment about it, or if someone declares the team hopeless because no one's playing objectives. it's not nice, but it's not harassment in my book. However, long rants about how terrible some player is, or continuous whispers after a match? That's just ridiculous and rude, and I'd like to think most pvp players agree with me here -- even if they relate to the frustration. My understanding ends there.

 

Obviously by harassment I do not mean the occasion mean word said, but I also do not find that understandable at all, nor reasonable and it also has no justification.

When either unpleasantness or harassment happens it is solely the fault of the person typing it, not the person they type it to / The behaviour is the person's alone, not the one trying to learn PvP or tagging along and doing at least something in the match.

Even when I end up carrying half the team, or trying to since it doesn't work that way, never would I start being mean to anyone in chat or express frustration in the terms of mean words directed to specific teammates because I am responsible for my behaviour and I don't like people doing that to me, so I don't do it to others even during mid-match frustration.

 

What I am talking about though, that I call harassment, is some people will escalate more and more no matter what, even if the player was doing fine and maybe made one mistake in the entire match and not since.

What I'm talking about is far beyond a "don't be stupid/an idiot" or two. It's the cussing out, rage, swearing, put them down constantly, tell them to kill themselves etc - this is just some of what I hear in warzones. Not in every single one, and not always to me but to any other players on either team (/say), but at least one third of matches I play someone is using it as their entertainment. the others being dead silent.

Nor every single player obviously.

Sometimes it's even the same people in every match they go in.

They are persistent and constantly at it the entire match.

Sometimes they even jump into fleet chat after the match to continue announcing to everyone in fleet what they were still cussing about and who. And I don't doubt it goes to pm's as others in the thread have mentioned but I have never personally received those.

 

When it comes to gear It's not the same as before, like when someone would go in to their first few PvP matches and get completely mowed down because they didn't have any PvP gear yet as they needed to do matches to get it.

Bioware encourages more players to try PvP by removing the PvP stats and adding some cross-faction warzones ... A very vocal seemingly large part of the PvP community then tries to chase them away with their behaviour, falsely justifies their own behaviour and then cry about long queue times, not enough players in matches, not enough decent players.. whatever and refuse to acknowledge that they are part of the problem and have the rest of the "community" defend their behaviour -- because reasons.

[Kiesu]

I admit if I seem to be in a zero dps team I am going to make a note about it in chat, because you clearly need more practice and probably haven't ever tried hitting a training dummy before in your life to check your dps.

 

Or when you push the ball carrier over the fire pit to help them goal faster, I will definitely /faceplam in chat.

 

Name-calling is bad and nobody should do this. Nor should they spend more time typing angrily in chat than they spend playing the match. They should just leave at that point because they aren't contributing either.

[Eshvara]

Language and intent are everything. If it’s frustration that boils over and someone says that was dumb or you’re all hopeless, that’s not harassment. But as soon as people start slinging personal insults like scrub, L2P, uninstall or worse, then it become abusive and when that continues through the match or in PMs, that becomes harassment.

 

It works both ways as well. If you boil over in frustration because your team is not trying to win and get told to shut up or leave if you don’t like it or it’s only regs “calm down” and much worse (which I can’t repeat), it only makes the situation worse and tempers can explode between both people or groups.

 

I’ve been at boiling point because I’m carrying the whole team and had all of that and more said to me by half the team, when all I needed was for them to not run off and leave a node undefended or one or two of them help me score or my pet hate, following me when I’m trying pull their whole team to give mine a numbers advantage.

 

I use to lose my s**t at them when they responded like that. Now I just say “enjoy your loss and less CXP, I’m not carrying you” and then I leave the match. I won’t let losers like that get under my skin anymore and I’m not going to carry them if they won’t try.

What’s really sad is they often PM me and abuse me for rage quitting after they’ve insulted me. They blame me for losing because they had less people, but they were always going to lose because they weren’t trying to win.

As far as I’m concerned, insulting me or worse in the game and then PMing me after the match to abuse me more is harassment.

 

Same, I used to lose my **** as well back in my early 20's! Now I still get frustrated, but I don't comment on people's bad performance anymore. I do have the urge sometimes when someone is just playing g horribly, but I manage not to.

A few days ago I was doing a random heroic in WoW with a group or terrible players. Pulled a pack bigger than they could handle, spend forever on trash, not knowing to kill the healers before the others, so nothing died. I was getting angry! Eventually I just started to mark them, and they eventually killed stuff after almost going oom.

 

At the end of the dungeon I felt like writing something nasty and had actually written it, but deleted it. There's no point in making others feel bad and it certainly doesn't help me.

In the end I actually felt better not having given into the nasty behaviour.

[Seireeni]

Obviously by harassment I do not mean the occasion mean word said, but I also do not find that understandable at all, nor reasonable and it also has no justification.

When either unpleasantness or harassment happens it is solely the fault of the person typing it, not the person they type it to / The behaviour is the person's alone, not the one trying to learn PvP or tagging along and doing at least something in the match.

Even when I end up carrying half the team, or trying to since it doesn't work that way, never would I start being mean to anyone in chat or express frustration in the terms of mean words directed to specific teammates because I am responsible for my behaviour and I don't like people doing that to me, so I don't do it to others even during mid-match frustration.

 

What I am talking about though, that I call harassment, is some people will escalate more and more no matter what, even if the player was doing fine and maybe made one mistake in the entire match and not since.

What I'm talking about is far beyond a "don't be stupid/an idiot" or two. It's the cussing out, rage, swearing, put them down constantly, tell them to kill themselves etc - this is just some of what I hear in warzones. Not in every single one, and not always to me but to any other players on either team (/say), but at least one third of matches I play someone is using it as their entertainment. the others being dead silent.

Nor every single player obviously.

Sometimes it's even the same people in every match they go in.

They are persistent and constantly at it the entire match.

Sometimes they even jump into fleet chat after the match to continue announcing to everyone in fleet what they were still cussing about and who. And I don't doubt it goes to pm's as others in the thread have mentioned but I have never personally received those.

 

When it comes to gear It's not the same as before, like when someone would go in to their first few PvP matches and get completely mowed down because they didn't have any PvP gear yet as they needed to do matches to get it.

Bioware encourages more players to try PvP by removing the PvP stats and adding some cross-faction warzones ... A very vocal seemingly large part of the PvP community then tries to chase them away with their behaviour, falsely justifies their own behaviour and then cry about long queue times, not enough players in matches, not enough decent players.. whatever and refuse to acknowledge that they are part of the problem and have the rest of the "community" defend their behaviour -- because reasons.

 

As I mentioned earlier in my response to the OP, I feel some understanding needs to go towards the people who get frustrated. I don't make mean comments in pvp -- in the past I occasionally congratulated someone on nice inc calls when node was lost and there were none ( ) but nowadays I've just decided that it's partly my fault if the node got taken because I didn't notice the guard's health dropping. I don't feel it's my place to criticize others that way when I could have done better, too. I'm also easily upset by mean comments, and I don't want to make others feel bad.

 

However, not everyone in this planet is like me. Some people don't mind it when they get called dumb when they're acting dumb. In fact, they're gonna respond with "Yeah, I was pretty dumb, wasn't I?" and laugh it away. And when someone like that treats others the way they want to be treated and makes snide remarks, they're hardly being intentionally hurtful. Could they be more considerate towards people who are hurt more easily? Yes, but I don't feel it's my place to demand they understand me and my feelings if I don't care about them and their feelings. It's not a victim/abuser -situation in that case, it's different kind of people struggling to get along.

 

However, the things you mentioned are likely not what anyone talking about frustration etc. here are thinking about. If it's something new, I suppose this must be a server thing, I haven't seen that sort of behavior in every third match on Darth Malgus lowbie/midbie. Max pvp I've done for a couple of days now, and worst I've seen has been "of course we're losing, we have reps in our team", "why are you playing like idiots?" and "no damage no focus no healing no hope". If I see someone doing the stuff you mentioned, I first tell them to stop whining and, if they don't, place them on ignore, which might be the reason the rest of the team sits in silence. They ignored the guy 5 matches ago and don't even see it.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Seireeni

[BarbarikDave]

I've read your initial post multiple times and the part that sticks with me is that you only pvp when you feel that you have to (to get a companion or to help with conquest) and you also specifically stated that you are not interested in learning how to play your character more effectively.

 

I'm not condoning raging, I was simply explaining why I think people rage and pointing out that in my opinion, based on reading your initial post, your attitude and approach is toxic.

 

I'd PvP more if I found it more enjoyable. I used to do it quite a bit a couple of years ago when I felt it had substance to it and I thoroughly enjoyed myself pretty much every match but the lack of actual PvP content took its toll and now I only do it when there is something that I feel is worth doing it for. I mean I'm sorry if playing the same thing over and over with for a few pieces of scrap and some xp isn't what I consider the best time investment for me but that's how I've come to look at it, though I've got nothing against those who still enjoy PvP and focus mainly on that. As for not learning how to play more effectively, it's not really a matter of wanting to or not. I have a specific way I can play the game due to a hand injury I received a few years ago which prevents my fingers from being as mobile as they need to be to do it the "best" way.

 

Regardless, the op's initial post paints the picture of someone who doesn't care about pvp and definitely isn't someone who is there to enjoy pvp and learn; if that's not true then he did a poor job explaining himself in his initial post or has done a complete 180.

 

I'll chalk it up to poorly explaining myself in the OP as the purpose was to point out the harassment and not make a defense for myself as to why I didn't deserve it. I wanted to start a discussion about this to find out if I was just incredibly unlucky with the kind of people I ran into or if harassing people became the new norm in PvP. People asked me questions or made assumptions based off the little information I gave in the OP and I responded with more details. Just as I'm doing with you. Now I'm not expecting you to read through every response I made regarding this, that could be a waste of time for you, but if someone clues you in on something you might have missed that was explained a bit more it might mean that you shouldn't be basing your argument solely on the OP because several of your points were already rectified.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Not reading your entire post, but you specifically left out the part where I said "he doesn't care about getting better."

 

You said he doesn't care about getting better, he never said that tho. What the hell does what you say have to do with him? That's you trying to "read between the lines". That's an insinuation on your part, he never said anything that he doesn't want to get better. He said he didnt care about gear as long as it was sufficient to get him through the content he was playing. You're the one cherry picking.

 

Gear doesn't make you good or bad at PVP which if you bothered to look at the screenie I put in to demonstrait that point it would have made perfect sense you because it shows that you dont need the best gear to either do well or learn, only sufficient. BTW Most of the gear I had on in that WZ was still from 4.0 because it was a clone of my main character that I made back then so that I could raid more and get around the weekly look outs, and when I just started messing around with PVP so at best I was in the 208 x exchange gear and no augs at all and no 6 peice set bonus.

 

So, apparently, that's sufficient enough gear even now to do 3.6 mill in damage and come in 1st for DPS. That wasn't because of gear, that was because of experience, which is the exact point being made here because that's what he is trying to get.

 

Bolster. Look it up. No gear necessary to do be able to do anything potentially. Bolster is there for a reason. Is it better to have top BIS gear all augged out? Sure it is, and we see tons of people everyday in full 248 BIS gear fully augged who can't even break 1k and do 300-500k in damage for the whole WZ.

 

Skill and healers are the decisive effecting aspects of performance and success or failure. Gear doesn't make you good, and it doesn't make you bad and it most *** surely doesn't prevent anyone from learning or getting experience. You are talking about at best a 10% difference in between the most extreme polar points. Someone with great gear and less skill than an opponent with skill and total garbage gear will get his *** handed to him every time.

 

Perhaps you are an exception, but I won't assume that, only A-O's make determinations about other players abilities without having any evidence whatsoever to base those determination on and/or provide a shred of evidence to support their claims. That's what screen shots are for unless of course you don't want to face a potential piece of evidence that you have no evidence to counter.

 

Making claims you continually refuse to substantiate is a great way to hear God laugh.

 

But by all means, keep talken crap.

Edited June 21, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Xina_LA]

In all fairness... Nothing forces you to get those decorations and companions.

There's nothing forcing you to PvP or even to play SWTOR. That's a silly comment.

Decorating is the most enjoyable part of the game for me.

[TUXs]

A few days ago I was doing a random heroic in WoW with a group or terrible players. Pulled a pack bigger than they could handle, spend forever on trash, not knowing to kill the healers before the others, so nothing died. I was getting angry! Eventually I just started to mark them, and they eventually killed stuff after almost going oom.

 

At the end of the dungeon I felt like writing something nasty and had actually written it, but deleted it. There's no point in making others feel bad and it certainly doesn't help me.

In the end I actually felt better not having given into the nasty behaviour.

That's a really good post Eshvara...I'm glad you did that. We're all human...we all learned at some point.

[Seireeni]

There's nothing forcing you to PvP or even to play SWTOR. That's a silly comment.

Decorating is the most enjoyable part of the game for me.

 

EDIT: Re-wrote this after I got a little less annoyed.

 

What I meant by that "silly comment" is that everyone is responsible for how they choose to behave. Yes, it's partly the fault of Bioware that people new to pvp are fighting alongside experienced people, and experienced people get frustrated when new people make simple mistakes and it costs the game. However, those experienced pvp players are still responsible for their own behavior. They should do their best to contain their frustrations and be as polite as possible, and it's not Bioware's fault if they blow up on someone. It's their own damn fault.

 

At the same time, people like you are also responsible for their own actions. It's partly Bioware's fault for gating cosmetic items on the amount of pvp you play, instead of quality of pvp you play. When someone shows up for SM ops to get the cool items from that content, they have to kill the bosses or they're getting nothing. However, you are still responsible for your behavior. You should do your best to not just get through the matches, but learn as much as possible while doing it. No, you don't need to spend hours reading guides, but you should read your tooltips to figure out the best rotation for you. You should also pay attention to how other people of the same class play and try to position yourself the same way and so on. And when you die, you should wonder if there's something you could have done better to avoid it. And if you're actually doing all this, then I apologize, but your post made it seem that you greatly dislike pvp, have no interest in it apart from the rewards and therefore are not there to actually learn. If that is you, then you more or less are the biggest argument to why pvp needs a (working) vote kick, just like pve. It's not an excuse to harass you, but you're still choosing to be rude. Bioware is not forcing you to it.

 

PvP players are not asking for cosmetic items to be removed because, just like many story players and many PVE players, many PvP players enjoy cosmetic items. They should not be punished by taking away their prizes because some people choose to get those cosmetic items despite disliking pvp and choose to take route of the minimum effort needed: just die again and again, instead of making sure that they're getting better and being more helpful every match. It can't be that pvp players are responsible for their own behavior and the people choosing to screw up their games are not. PvP players need to do their best to be polite to people still learning, and new people need to do their best to learn.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Seireeni

[Eshvara]

That's a really good post Eshvara...I'm glad you did that. We're all human...we all learned at some point.

 

Yeah, agreed. I've had my fair share of bad play, especially in the beginning when I was new to mmo's.

[TUXs]

Yeah, agreed. I've had my fair share of bad play, especially in the beginning when I was new to mmo's.

Ha...you learn faster than I do...I'm still making novice mistakes to this day At some point I need to just admit I'm bad

[Lhancelot]

Thankfully there are more people condemning it over trying to justify it. So as I stated in the first line of my OP there are good people in PvP.

 

I don't think people are so much as justifying it as explaining why it happens. Giving reasons, even if they are inexcusable reasons to as why some players vent inappropriately is not justifying it.

 

Granted there will always be the person who says and believes "git gud scrub" but they are in the minority. I am fairly certain if you head into hardmode mode PVE PUG ops you will run into the same type of behavior though.

 

Anytime you play online games and they are competitive PVP or hard PVE modes with strangers, you will have bad attitude players/immature players who will be asinine to others.

 

Competition brings out the worst in some, that's just how it is. You can avoid this by grouping or guilding and running PVP or PVE which is what many people do.

 

If you queue solo, then sorry to say it but you have to expect this type of behavior and it's not "only PVP players."

 

I really hate generalizations and as I said before, try to pug hardmode or nightmare mode PVE ops and I would bet you'd run into the same type of negative and nasty behavior.