Why is the PvP community so hostile?

[Eshvara]

Which is why we need a way to deal with the PvP ones just like we deal with the PvE ones. /ignore needs to prevent them from being on my team.

 

I'd like that as well, it may make queuing slower though, probably by a lot. For me at least, it takes quite something for me to block someone. If I have Bob on my ignore list but you don't, the game can't pair us together either as Bob is only ignore. In that way we all kind of suffer from Bob being a butthole. Unless I'm mistaken.

[TUXs]

Sorry skimmed that bit, yeah I agree but they highly doubt they will do that because they're trying to get queues to pop quicker now. lol. and ignore hurts both ignored and ignoree in that regard (queues) if there's enough of it going on.

How else do you combat it? I absolutely understand that it's a real issue, and I'm willing to take longer queues to avoid playing with the folk who are downright jackholes. They are the ones who will ultimately pay the price, not me. I'll get screwed out of a few queues here and there, but it's well worth it to not play with the most toxic of players. I just don't know a better way to combat it...do you?

[Beastiac]

its just the mentality of people who love to kill other players

the most normal are those who dont pvp

[kodrac]

I get why people who are passionate about pvp get annoyed when people who don't have the best gear join, but how are those people supposed to know what IS the gear requirement? I have no idea, and admit it's one of the reasons I haven't done max level pvp for ages (the others being that I prefer leveling to endgame and that grinding for gear is annoying and unpleasant).

 

There is no requirement but the better your gear the better your survivability. So the worse your gear the more you're seen as a weak spot on their team. Easy kill/easy points. You might get shamed for it initially, but if you can hold your own they'll recognize that. Most people anyway.

[TUXs]

its just the mentality of people who love to kill other players

the most normal are those who dont pvp

I hope you're kidding...I love PvP because of the challenge it presents - it has nothing to do with "killing" others. No 2 PvP fights are ever the same, I'm forced to play better or get my *** handed to me over and over...that's why I love it so much, it teaches me to be a more aware player in every way.

[Eshvara]

I hope you're kidding...I love PvP because of the challenge it presents - it has nothing to do with "killing" others. No 2 PvP fights are ever the same, I'm forced to play better or get my *** handed to me over and over...that's why I love it so much, it teaches me to be a more aware player in every way.

 

Agreed!

[Lhancelot]

First I'll just say I'm not talking about every PvP player out there, I've run into quite a bit of decent folk who don't give you flak so long as you're trying.

 

However, it seems the more vocal players tend to be incredibly more hostile, especially to people who don't play PvP unless they have to. I suck at PvP, I'll say that right now. I play the objective as best as I can but 9/10 I'll lose whatever battle I get into. I'm a story player and the only time I get into PvP is either when the story calls for it (i.e Trooper companion requires 20 warzone matches) or when it's a conquest objective. I don't care about what gear I have or if it's BiS, so long as it gets me through the content I run then I'm fine and I mainly focus on a rotation that fits how I play and not the "best" way to play the class I am. Yet when I make a mistake like not using a DCD at the exact time I was supposed to or not attacking the right person in a group of 5 enemies I get chewed out for it. I usually respond with "Sorry, I don't play much PvP." and that only seems to set them off even more and they'll go on about not joining the queue if I don't know how to play or start throwing insults. Normally I just ignore that player and move on but it seems that recently there has been a large increase in the number of hostile PvP players I've been coming across. I understand it sucks to lose, I understand that people should want to win when they play competitively but does telling people to stay out and calling them names actually solve anything?

 

This is all unranked as well so it's not like it's THAT big a deal. I don't know. I just lost any interest in PvP now and if there ever was a time that I'd actually want to invest myself into it, I think these recent weeks have just made me give up on that idea as a whole.

 

What server are you on, I am just curious?

 

PVP. Competition between players. This breeds hostility naturally.

 

Anonymity. You are also facing anonymous players which always elicits behavior you'd rarely see face to face. People type all kinds of rudeness because there's simply no retaliation to worry about.

 

Kids. Young players tend to show less restraint and behave less maturely and lash out vocally.

 

I PVP a lot, I also been on pub side for last 2-3 weeks so I see a lot of losing lol. This can bring a lot of hostility but I got to be honest, on SF pubs quit early a lot which sucks, but most of them are not rude or obnoxious.

 

I'd suggest not worrying about what some anonymous malcontent player has to type at you. Put them on ignore, and just keep playing.

 

Over time, you actually will improve. Maybe you won't become a pro, but practice does help and you will learn the maps back and forth, you will learn how to do better and that's all any reasonable player wants from teammates in the WZs.

 

Being in regs ignore any comment about gears, this is an ignorant person if they cry about gears in regs. I have found bolster at 70 easily makes any gear competitive. You are not getting blown up instantly like it used to be when people did not wear PVP gears. I run tons of toons with 208 rated old gears, and it holds up fine.

 

Don't let malcontents ruin what you like in the game, or let them influence you to not do what you are trying to do in the game, unless you find you are unable to block them out of your mind etc.

[Lhancelot]

its just the mentality of people who love to kill other players

the most normal are those who dont pvp

 

And... this is a dumb troll post.

[kodrac]

In that way we all kind of suffer from Bob being a butthole. Unless I'm mistaken.

 

Yep, one person in the queue on another person's ignore in the queue would screw up matchmaking for everyone. Which is why they don't do it. Too many variables.

Edited June 18, 2018 by kodrac

[LordTurin]

I actually dont want ignore to avoid being put in a match with someone. If someone is a toxic piece of garbage, I want to just ignore them and never see anything they say or do again. But I am also not willing to miss queues because someone else is being toxic (and make no mistake, if I'm the one ignoring someone, I pretty much have to be the one skipped over).

 

I mean they could implement a new list, "never pvp with this person" that does both, that's fine, but then it also raises the issue of bad vs toxic, especially for solo ranked. It would be pretty easy for folks to game the system and only be on good teams in yolos, and in not sure how that would work.

 

Honestly, just ignore people, and encourage others to do so. I think my favorite memory was when there was this really toxic guy playing, and so many people had him on ignore, that no one would respond to his calls or his meltdowns, and his friend piped up in ops chat and asked if people just aren't seeing anything, and 5 of us all responded that we're ignoring him. It basically made pvp unplayable for the dude, I never saw him again.

[Seireeni]

There is no requirement but the better your gear the better your survivability. So the worse your gear the more you're seen as a weak spot on their team. Easy kill/easy points. You might get shamed for it initially, but if you can hold your own they'll recognize that. Most people anyway.

 

That's a reasonable approach. I was considering trying to get back to max level pvp with the cross faction stuff coming up, but I'd rather not have to deal with hostility about gear right away. I can understand frustrated people, but it's hard to know what you're supposed to have equipped when you first queue when you haven't done it for a long time. But hey, maybe I'll give it a try.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Seireeni

[Jdast]

To me it is relatively straightforward...

 

Assumption #1: Human beings (and related humanoid species like Twileks, Chiss, etc.) are more prone to an emotional response than machines, at least until AI is programmed to have feelings and emotional responses, in which case we are all DOOOMMMEEEEDDDD because it is the equivalent of machines becoming sentient. Okay, I'm digressing a bit.

 

Assumption #2: In life, many of us do not want to admit fault.

 

By definition, in a PvP environment, you have a humanoid so-called 'loser'. Attributing blame outside of a pure 1v1 duel situation (in which case the argument just devolves into which class is overpowered) is inherently subjective.

 

Assumption #3: Presumption of anonymity, in which case social bonding isn't as important as in say, family or work relationships and people will gripe.

 

This is less pronounced in PvE because there is less often faillure. When there is, it is usually in a progression, glass chewing guild situation where social bonds are enforced or it's a PuG and you can leavel with to no consequence. But there is certainly griping. How many times have of those of us who play healers tried to remind people that standing next to a pulsating plasma grenade is a bad idea?

 

Tl-DR:

 

1) One side is guaranteed to lose; 2) It's never your fault because you know you are a PvP deity; and 3) Anonymity.

 

I'm sure if Darth Malgus could scream at his guards for being idiots and not noticing their comrades getting blown to bits 30 feet away, he would. I'm also pretty sure Arcann wasn't very bright to encrypt you in carbonite with all your gear on your person.

 

Dasty

Edited June 18, 2018 by Jdast

[TUXs]

To me it is relatively straightforward...

 

Tl-DR:

 

1) One side is guaranteed to lose; 2) It's never your fault because you know you are a PvP deity; and 3) Anonymity.

 

Dasty

Well said Dasty. It doesn't excuse the toxicity, but this does explain some heightened emotions...

[Andryah]

To me it is relatively straightforward...

 

Assumption #1: Human beings (and related humanoid species like Twileks, Chiss, etc.) are more prone to an emotional response than machines, at least until AI is programmed to have feelings and emotional responses, in which case we are all DOOOMMMEEEEDDDD because it is the equivalent of machines becoming sentient. Okay, I'm digressing a bit.

 

Assumption #2: In life, many of us do not want to admit fault.

 

By definition, in a PvP environment, you have a humanoid so-called 'loser'. Attributing blame outside of a pure 1v1 duel situation (in which case the argument just devolves into which class is overpowered) is inherently subjective.

 

Assumption #3: Presumption of anonymity, in which case social bonding isn't as important as in say, family or work relationships and people will gripe.

 

This is less pronounced in PvE because there is less often faillure. When there is, it is usually in a progression, glass chewing guild situation where social bonds are enforced or it's a PuG and you can leavel with to no consequence. But there is certainly griping. How many times of those of us who play healers tried to remind people that standing next to a pulsating plasma grenade is a bad idea?

 

Tl-DR:

 

1) One side is guaranteed to lose; 2) It's never your fault because you know you are a PvP deity; and 3) Anonymity.

 

I'm sure if Darth Malgus could scream at his guards for being idiots and not noticing their comrades getting blown to bits 30 feet away, he would. I'm also pretty sure Arcann wasn't very bright to encrypt you in carbonite with all your gear on your person.

 

Dasty

 

Heh.... ^^ reasoned, objective, and substantially based on fact.

 

In the end.. PvP is substantially about one player predating on another player, often at any and all costs. It gets the reptile brain (the most primal sections of our brain) revved up, and even when under the control of the logical brain... can and will both issue and provoke passionate responses. Even in PvE.. some players are very much reptile brain driven. Once the reptile part of our brain is engaged..... nothing good comes from it really as it was never intended to be triggered by virtual game play events, because it is driven by survival at it's basest levels. The reason some people come across more friendly, team oriented, and compassionate in their play is that they have better lock and control over the reptile portion of their brain.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Andryah

[kodrac]

I hope you're kidding...I love PvP because of the challenge it presents - it has nothing to do with "killing" others. No 2 PvP fights are ever the same, I'm forced to play better or get my *** handed to me over and over...that's why I love it so much, it teaches me to be a more aware player in every way.

 

Exactly! PvP is unscripted. You can't go in to it with a PvE mindset. I think a lot of people go into it thinking they have good gear so they'll be fine and then they're not and don't understand. PvP is about a whole lot more than gear. If anything, it's a handicap. It's about being aware of your skills, the enemy player's class and it's skills, situational awareness, doing the right things at the right times vs at the wrong time, all the combinations of strategies, etc.

 

For example, if you waste your stun breaker on a short stun vs saving it for the long stuns. I'll hit you with my short stun first to see if you take the bait. If you do and use your stun break I'll then hit you with the longer stun and cap the node while you're helpless to do anything about it. That kind of play will get someone's attention and will hopefully be a learning moment for you. So yes, when the OP says he doesn't use the right DCD or whatever and doesn't get it when people get upset, that's exactly why. Learn from it.

[DuchessKristania]

I have noticed some pretty toxic stuff when I first started PvP, i.e. was being harrassed via whispers after the match, but most of my experiences have been just fine. I've seen people start complaining and abdicating blame when a team is losing, but I have noticed that almost every time that happens the person complaining had tons of deaths and did very little to actually help the match.

 

Now, in defense of those rational pvpers, I've seen several occasions where someone started picking on a fellow player during the match and the entire team jumped to their defense and put the bully in their place. Once it was geared at myself and a guildie. It was shortly after the most recent merge and behind our guild name our original server was displayed. One player started complaining because we were from Ebon Hawk, and apparently that meant everyone else was going to have to work twice as hard. The match hadn't even started and this person was going off. My guildie and I just ignored it, but almost every other person on the team put that player in their place. The person got mad and left. We won the match. Every time one of these posts come up I remember that match.

[Xina_LA]

I'm surprised the PVP community hasn't been more vocal demanding that decoration and companion rewards not be locked behind PVP objectives.

 

There was one PVP player who said something nice to me after a couple of people decided to go over-the-top in harassing me when I didn't perform well in a match, even though I did my best. He said, "If they really cared about PvP, they'd be in Ranked matches. Unranked is where people learn, so #### them."

 

I took it to heart. PVPers, you need to either put up with me blundering through PVP on my crappy PC until I earn enough rank to buy my decos and get my companions, or petition the devs so that it's not necessary. I don't care which.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Xina_LA

[Floplag]

Hostility and volatility are not unique to this game in any way, every game ive ever played has it. Everyone gets salty and irritated at times in PvP, its the nature of things. Bad beats bring out the worst in us, it happens. God knows im not immune.

 

The one thing, if any, that i do find somewhat "unique" to this community is the lack of respect.

 

There is little reason to "fight the good fight" so to speak and make an effort in the fact of an unbalanced match. All youll get from those on the winning side is "you suck" or "get rekd" or some other nonsensical thing that suggest they cant tell the difference between skill and a stacked deck. Anymore i just find a quiet place to relax till its over and dont stick the next guy in queue with a bad back fill.

 

Thats the one thing about the toxicity in this game i see more than others. but the toxicity isnt unique.

[Andryah]

Now, in defense of those rational pvpers, I've seen several occasions where someone started picking on a fellow player during the match and the entire team jumped to their defense and put the bully in their place.

 

Yeah... if more people would step up when they see this sort of thing and put a stop to it.... eventually... there would be very little of it in PvP encounters. People not doing so... just enables the bullies with a false sense of acceptance of their behaviors.

 

Bullies rely on others staying quiet while they do their bullying. When they get called out for their behaviors.. they will either restrain themselves more, or simply move on to something else... either of which is an overall win for PvP play in MMOs.

 

As with so many things that involve human beings.... it does not take a large number of misbehaving humans to essentially turn an otherwise open and engaging environment into a toxic mess.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Andryah

[BarbarikDave]

So yes, when the OP says he doesn't use the right DCD or whatever and doesn't get it when people get upset, that's exactly why. Learn from it.

 

You are completely missing the point of this post. It's not about people getting upset. It's about the way they do it. I have no problem with someone telling me I messed up, I welcome it. They can cuss me out, throw a tantrum, w.e. so long as they actually give something helpful along with it. Helps me get better. It's when they go off and start throwing insults that continue through the rest of the match and beyond to the point of harassment that I don't get. It's not called for and does absolutely nothing help the team, if anything it distracts them. What good does it do? Personally I don't see anything good coming out of it. It pushed me away, I don't play the game to be berated with insults. I have my wife for that. I play to have a good time. I'm sure it pushed others away too. People who want to play and want to get better but no, someone decided it was better to be a jerk about it instead of actually doing something useful.

 

It's like I said earlier, I welcome any advice people give. I own up to my mistakes when I make them and I try not to make them again, but just because I was a second too late on a dcd doesn't mean I should have to sit and willingly accept being harassed by some jerk who can't handle a teammate making a mistake. There's a right way and a wrong way to voice your frustrations and that's not what I would consider to be the right way.

[Batwer]

I have to say, it's not that bad here (Affectionate insult and cry ).

I think it will get worse depending on how much freedom the players have. Games where there is a lot of Open PVP and players have no choice but to go out to quest there is a lot more trouble. Players who go in groups to PVE players. Players "guard" certain quest points that are important to the story. Or people who go to low player areas to attack them there. :rolleyes: And then laugh-emote spam or offend.

It then swings up on both sides is clear. So all in all just the ***** comparison.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Extremely cynically put : Just listen to gangsta rap and you'll know why the PvP community is that hostile ...

[kodrac]

You are completely missing the point of this post. It's not about people getting upset. It's about the way they do it.

 

I didn't miss the point. If you read my earlier reply you'll see I said I don't get offended by it. It comes with the territory.

PvP comes with it's own learning curve. Not just skill but skin thickness too. It's not for everyone. Blow off the rudeness, but learn from the mistakes.

Edited June 18, 2018 by kodrac

[Mournblood]

To the OP:

 

While it's certainly more pronounced in PvP, the same issues exist in PvE. The common denominator is that no one likes having their time and effort wasted. When you have someone on your WZ team, or in your Ops raid, who selfishly decides that they are somehow more important than everyone else and are therefore going to do whatever the hell they want to do regardless of the consequences to the team, that's when people tend to get upset. Basically, whether it's from immaturity or ego (which are usually related), or something more toxic, players who are inconsiderate of their team mates are where you're usually going to see hostility.

 

That said, there is an important distinction to be made between a player who's new and inexperienced and one who's playing like he's Captain Commando and refusing to work together with the rest of the team. I think most reasonable, mature players are understanding of those who are new to PvP, provided they are learning from their mistakes and at least trying to improve their performance. But those of us who have been around a while also know that there are plenty of players out there who aren't very good at PvP, but they don't apply themselves to learn or adapt, and then displace the blame for their substandard performance on everyone and everything else.

 

I'll admit that I get frustrated with PUG team mates all the time in WZs, but I usually just bite my tongue and keep my comments contained to TS with my guildmates. It's pointless to berate them in WZ chat because it's only going to make them defensive and less receptive to self-improvement, and it's not as if they are going to have some epiphany and start playing like they are part of a team.

 

The important thing to remember is that whether you're in an Operation raid or on a WZ team, everyone matters, and the more you work together as a team, the greater your chances are for a successful conclusion. For example, if you're DPS and not well geared, it may not be smart or good team work for you to go mid on Civil War (which tends to be the most contested node) and relegate a healer to guard the side node. I've seen it happen. You don't need to be geared to be effective at guarding a node, and it's one of the most important functions you can perform in most WZs. And yet I hear players bellyache all the time about how node guarding is boring. Personally, I'd rather be bored and winning than frustrated and losing because not everyone was doing their part.

 

Another good example was when I was left to guard a side node on my Fury Marauder in 248s (everyone else left the node), while some Operative wasted the entire match trying (and failing) to steal the uncontested opposite side node. What would have been better team work of him would have been to take over guarding the node so that my Mara could bring his DPS where it was needed in the contested middle node. Did I yell at him? No, because it wouldn't have changed anything. He's going to play that way regardless of how justified I would have been to say something to him, and then he blamed the rest of the team when we lost the match because he lacks the perspective and maturity to understand that he was part of the problem.

 

I could list pages of examples like this. Again, what's so often common among them is a player's ego interfering with their ability to be a good team player. And as I've already explained, while it's fruitless to start drama over that, some players are simply expressing their frustration when they get hostile over it.

 

There are also players who get hostile simply because they have anger management issues. These are the players who start yelling (CAPS) in WZ or group chat because the match isn't going well. In many cases, it's unwarranted, such as you're playing against a team who's simply better than yours, or they are part of the problem but refuse to accept any accountability for it. If you encounter players like this, my advice is to just put them on ignore. It's just easier and more effective than trying to reason with them.

 

I hope this helps bring some perspective to the issue and context to your bad experience. I don't agree with players who get hostile in PvP (and you'll never see this from my guild), but in most cases, I understand it.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Mournblood

[Asmodesu]

How else do you combat it? I absolutely understand that it's a real issue, and I'm willing to take longer queues to avoid playing with the folk who are downright jackholes. They are the ones who will ultimately pay the price, not me. I'll get screwed out of a few queues here and there, but it's well worth it to not play with the most toxic of players. I just don't know a better way to combat it...do you?

 

Nope, that's the only way I know. I just said I doubted Bioware would do that and stated my reasons why they wouldn't. Seeing as the only "content" we have for months is to speed up PvP queues I just don't see them doing the best thing for players here.