Planned Warzone Changes Part 2

[Theagg]

As others have commented, these changes just make tanks more likely to be the go to scorer. An indestructible tank/healer walking the ball, even slowly, with Hindrance, to the line with no need to pass becomes the default.

 

A healing debuff for carrying the ball that ramps up over time is far more likely to encourage passing, even for tanks, rather than a simple slow (which won't really bother those slow moving damage sponges)

[Lhancelot]

Hey folks,

 

Welcome to part 2 of our planned Warzone changes for GU 5.9.2. If you haven’t already done so, we recommend you go take a look at part 1 and our upcoming matchmaking changes. The following changes focus on Huttball and Arenas, so let’s dive in:

 

Huttball (and Queshball) – We have some concerns about the dominance of Classes with movement abilities in Huttball. The proposed changes will help encourage more teamplay in the Warzone. We also want to create more situations for counterplay and competition in Huttball while ensuring all players are rewarded for their efforts.

• Carrying the Huttball now applies Hinder to the character. Hinder prevents the use of high mobility actions such as Force Charge, Force Speed, Scamper, and more.
  
• Due to the Hinder changes above players holding the Huttball will now move at 80% movement speed (up from 67%)
  
• Players can no longer catch the Huttball while stunned. This creates more opportunities for counter-play, such as intercepting passes intended for a target you stun.
  
• Adding attacker points for catching a pass from a friendly target:
  
  • Currently the thrower of the Huttball receives 500 points, but not the receiver. We will increase the receiver to gain 250 points.
    
  • We would also like a touchdown pass to award both players equally (currently the thrower gets 500 more points). Here is what the new breakdown would look like:
    
    • Thrower: 2750 Attacker Points total
      
      • 500 Attacker Points from completing pass successfully
        
      • 2250 Attacker Points for throwing a scoring pass
        

      [*]Receiver: 2750 Attacker Points total

      • 250 Attacker Points from receiving a friendly pass
        
      • 2500 Attacker Points for possessing the ball for a score
        

 

We know these changes will be pretty substantial in affecting how you play Huttball. Before we make these adjustments, we want to know your thoughts. We are getting your feedback early to see what changes we should, or should not make.

 

Arenas – There are quite a few places where players can exploit to prevent themselves from dying. We plan to address them and implement ways to penalize those players. Additionally, we wanted to take another look at how the acid mechanics work at the end of Arena matches to see if we can improve that experience for stalemates. Here are our thoughts:

• Characters who hack their way into places they shouldn’t be, such as outside the arena or in the ground, will die.
  
• Currently, acid causes characters to take 10% of their max health in damage every second, prevents stealth and all healing.
  
• Acid will now work as follows:
  
  • Characters will take 1% of their max health in damage every second and reduce all healing done/received by 2% per stack.
    
  • Characters affected by acid will begin with one stack and gain one stack per second.
    
  • Acid will still inhibit stealth.
    

 

This will mean the very end of an Arena match will now get progressively more dangerous. This gives more time for players to fight each other and counterplay, before their inevitable acid death. This should also address cases where stealth characters in particular can just CC and run away to win a match.

 

Let us know your thoughts!

 

-eric

 

I see the point of it, basically the amount of CC, CC-immunities and speed boosts classes have had added has dated huttball.

 

We always complain about cheesing huttball too easily now, so they are making an effort to rectify that a bit. I give BW and Eric credit for really putting in effort and thought to try to make the games more challenging and fun too.

 

Changes like these are very hard to assess, until they are tried and tested we really won't know what works and what does not.

 

Just wanted to say thanks Eric for so much time and effort into explaining possible future changes for PVP, as a long time PVPer on this game I appreciate it.

[Saggitario]

Quality Changes

[sithBracer]

I see the point of it, basically the amount of CC, CC-immunities and speed boosts classes have had added has dated huttball.

 

We always complain about cheesing huttball too easily now, so they are making an effort to rectify that a bit. I give BW and Eric credit for really putting in effort and thought to try to make the games more challenging and fun too.

 

Changes like these are very hard to assess, until they are tried and tested we really won't know what works and what does not.

 

Just wanted to say thanks Eric for so much time and effort into explaining possible future changes for PVP, as a long time PVPer on this game I appreciate it.

 

They are actually very easy to assess. Play lowbie where many don't have their abilities yet and you will see how it is (unless there is a premade for of 39-40s). Pretty much no one ever scores and whoever gets the ball is ganked immediately. Now imagine all that, but with a jugg tank and 2 sorc healers in the mix. It will be very very boring.

[Lhancelot]

They are actually very easy to assess. Play lowbie where many don't have their abilities yet and you will see how it is (unless there is a premade for of 39-40s). Pretty much no one ever scores and whoever gets the ball is ganked immediately. Now imagine all that, but with a jugg tank and 2 sorc healers in the mix. It will be very very boring.

 

Yeah I understand your point it will remove dynamic gameplay and complexities on one hand. But I really think before judging it, we got to test it out. I am looking forward to PTS with all these changes they are planning to let us test.

[Kaze-Yama]

These changes ruin what makes hutt ball actually fun. The fast pace and mobility options being eliminated means there will be much less scoring and many more boring stale mates. Playing a 0-0 game where the winner is determined by who gets lucky enough to be holding the ball last is not a warzone I look forward to playing. There is already enough stuns and CC in the game where you can stun and focus down a ball carrier even with the current mobility. Also having stuns disrupt passes also ruins any point of passing to begin with. Why pass when any form of CC can potentially ruin it and turn the ball over. These changes basically mean the best strategy is just to have the whole team group and have a single tank slowly walk the the ball with as many healers as possible which is pretty much the least fun way to play hutt ball.

 

If you just want hutt ball to always devolve into a 12 minute long team death match since actually trying to score will be pointless I guess these changes are the way to go but I much prefer the current version cause even in the event of a 6-0 blow out it means you can just move on to the next map. With these changes now if one team is clearly better it will just take two or three times longer to lose which seems pointless.

[Rafiknoll]

RIP Scamper in Huttball, though : (

 

Correction:

RIP Scamper in Huttball!!!!!!!! :D:D

[My secondary is a concealment, I am not biased]

[Rion_Starkiller]

Yeah I understand your point it will remove dynamic gameplay and complexities on one hand. But I really think before judging it, we got to test it out. I am looking forward to PTS with all these changes they are planning to let us test.

 

Yeah, I definitely want to try it out before making a final judgment on whether I like it or not.

[Stncold]

[*]Carrying the Huttball now applies Hinder to the character. Hinder prevents the use of high mobility actions such as Force Charge, Force Speed, Scamper, and more.

 

 

-eric[/color]

 

I really don't like this. I can understand scamper but why force charge and force speed? One is punishing the enemy for being out of position and the other is a brief boost to get across fire pits. If this goes live it will kill the primary reason I love Huttball on my Guardian and effectively destroy the ability for one good ball carrier to beat a solid team when their team isn't being helpful with going ahead for passes. Please reconsider doing this. I hope you do given the general dislike for this change in both this thread and on reddit.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Stncold

[SirUrza]

Huttball needs more movement, not less. These changes are awful. Now it's give the ball to a talk and escort him to the goal.That was huttball in 1.x when a sorc's pull was on cooldown. Boring.

[Banderal]

A healing debuff for carrying the ball that ramps up over time is far more likely to encourage passing, even for tanks, rather than a simple slow (which won't really bother those slow moving damage sponges)

 

Why is everyone saying that the ball carrier will be moving slower? I read this part from Eric...

 

"*Due to the Hinder changes above players holding the Huttball will now move at 80% movement speed (up from 67%)"

 

... as meaning that currently the ball carrier in HB moves at 67%, and the new proposed changes will having them move at 80%. In other words... FASTER than they do right now.

[Banderal]

They are actually very easy to assess. Play lowbie where many don't have their abilities yet and you will see how it is (unless there is a premade for of 39-40s). Pretty much no one ever scores and whoever gets the ball is ganked immediately. Now imagine all that, but with a jugg tank and 2 sorc healers in the mix. It will be very very boring.

 

That's an interesting observation, because I actually LOVE lowbie huttball for exactly those reasons. It actually requires teamwork, emphasis on both parts of that word , to score. And yeah, matches are bloody!

 

But then adding into the equation the abilities of a "full grown" tank and heals I think will change/eliminate the bloodiness. The healer/s keeping the tank going as they just muscle it to the goal... as others have predicted.

[RACATW]

Why is everyone saying that the ball carrier will be moving slower? I read this part from Eric...

 

"*Due to the Hinder changes above players holding the Huttball will now move at 80% movement speed (up from 67%)"

 

... as meaning that currently the ball carrier in HB moves at 67%, and the new proposed changes will having them move at 80%. In other words... FASTER than they do right now.

 

Its slower because there are no high mobility skills to move fast through acid or fire traps.

[Banderal]

Its slower because there are no high mobility skills to move fast through acid or fire traps.

 

Oh, I see. Now I feel stupid. Well, stupid-er than normal. Thanks.

[RACATW]

They are actually very easy to assess. Play lowbie where many don't have their abilities yet and you will see how it is (unless there is a premade for of 39-40s). Pretty much no one ever scores and whoever gets the ball is ganked immediately. Now imagine all that, but with a jugg tank and 2 sorc healers in the mix. It will be very very boring.

 

Pretty much this...

Edited June 5, 2018 by RACATW

[EricMusco]

ok I see what you're saying now

 

my initial reading of what musco posted was that there's a flat 1% dps on you and a stacking healing debuff, but you've read it as both stacking. unfortunately the wording is ambiguous....but you're right that it would be about 14-15 seconds to die under your reading of it

 

edit: being able to medpac would actually buy you 2 more seconds, but this is still dangerously close to the old TTK if your interpretation is correct.

 

@musco can you clarify?

 

I sure can! Apologies for being ambiguous in the messaging.

 

Your initial reading is correct. There are two effects that happen:

1. Players begin taking 1% of their maximum health every second. This effect does NOT stack, it is always 1%.
   
2. You receive a 2% penalty to healing every second. This DOES stack, it increases by 2% per stack.
   

What this means is that as players fight during the arena end phase, healing will continue to become less effective over time until it does nothing. That penalty plus the constant 1% damage will apply more and more kill pressure to the remaining players.

 

Hope that clears up any confusion!

 

-eric

[Theagg]

Why is everyone saying that the ball carrier will be moving slower? I read this part from Eric...

 

"*Due to the Hinder changes above players holding the Huttball will now move at 80% movement speed (up from 67%)"

 

... as meaning that currently the ball carrier in HB moves at 67%, and the new proposed changes will having them move at 80%. In other words... FASTER than they do right now.

 

Ahh yes, it's more of a 'slow' with respect to those who lose the abilities to move more quickly with the ball at the moment then. (Scamper, Force Speed etc)

 

What the general speed boost from 67% to 80% will do though is favour those tank/heal combo's even more. The tank could already quite happily walk the ball to the line at 67% normal without ever needing to pass (or just that final pass from the pit). Now the tanks get to walk more quickly, whilst still being almost indestructible...

[yellow_]

I sure can! Apologies for being ambiguous in the messaging.

 

Your initial reading is correct. There are two effects that happen:

1. Players begin taking 1% of their maximum health every second. This effect does NOT stack, it is always 1%.
   
2. You receive a 2% penalty to healing every second. This DOES stack, it increases by 2% per stack.
   

What this means is that as players fight during the arena end phase, healing will continue to become less effective over time until it does nothing. That penalty plus the constant 1% damage will apply more and more kill pressure to the remaining players.

 

Hope that clears up any confusion!

 

-eric

 

*thumbs up*

[Theagg]

I sure can! Apologies for being ambiguous in the messaging.

 

Your initial reading is correct. There are two effects that happen:

1. Players begin taking 1% of their maximum health every second. This effect does NOT stack, it is always 1%.
   
2. You receive a 2% penalty to healing every second. This DOES stack, it increases by 2% per stack.
   

What this means is that as players fight during the arena end phase, healing will continue to become less effective over time until it does nothing. That penalty plus the constant 1% damage will apply more and more kill pressure to the remaining players.

 

Hope that clears up any confusion!

 

-eric

 

Now just take that 2% penalty to healing every second from arenas and apply it to ball carriers in Huttball....tank/heal combo OP problem largely solved.

[Elusive_Thing]

Now just take that 2% penalty to healing every second from arenas and apply it to ball carriers in Huttball....tank/heal combo OP problem largely solved.

Seems like they came up with their own, stupendously asinine solution of making sure no-one can move instead.

[giorgo]

I don't like the huttball changes.I understand that some abilities have outgrown the map but what is going to happen is that you will not be able to move once you get the ball,literally.

Most classes have their slow and root breakers tied to their high mobility actions.Force speed,predation,mad dash,HO etc,are all root breakers if you pick the utilities.Not beeing able to use these abilities means that you won't be able to take a step before rooted to death.

[Sounders_Fan]

I am not a fan of the huttball changes. huttball already sucks, especially the quesh version and getting team mates to play objectives is pretty much impossible.

 

but one or 2 people with transcendence, leap, etc can actually score in a game. with these changes, huttball reaches the same level as the Odessan WZ; leave when it starts, re-queue and hope for a better map

[FiLaBugh]

Acid changes seems good to me.

 

Huttball changes seems to me the most dumbest thing that ever happen to pvp since sorc/sages could use Bubble Pop in other friendly players.

 

Want people to pass the ball? dont want operatives to roll from top to the line?(actually theres other classes that can do this), make some sort of debuff that makes players with the ball slower like an increasing slow debuff, or some kind of increase damage taken debuff.Tho if people can not stop an operative, a mara or any other spec in Huttball in games without Tanks/heals or without 2,3 healers in same team..thats a problem of the players not the game, but i though you were adressing this already. I wonder how it will be an Huttball without healers and tanks xd. 0-0 (boring...) no one wins lol.

 

If hinder means the same thing to you than it does to me im pretty sure people dont want to be ELECTRO NETTED when playing the specific objective for those WZs. No one likes to be netted, its just not fun.. lol. Also, will this mean Predation will be by far the most OP move in Huttball???after fire/acid pulls ofc.

 

Suggestion: Make a guide on "WHATS RESOLVE" and make that guide pop in every wz until people reach like Valor 50..that might help in some of this issues people seem to have.

Edited June 5, 2018 by FiLaBugh

[Rafiknoll]

Now just take that 2% penalty to healing every second from arenas and apply it to ball carriers in Huttball....tank/heal combo OP problem largely solved.

 

Amazing idea, which made me think about the following:

As the carrier you get stacks that continuously slow you more and more (and can affect through speed increases), and while mobility abilities are NOT disabled completely, using any of them gives you immediate 20 more stacks [mobility which is not used by you such as sorc pulls are disabled so they can't ruin your efforts without your consent on the one hand, or help you without any penalty on the other hand]. Makes people eventually pass the ball, and make people mobility tacts still count [maybe also need a cooldown on passing or something, or 2 operatives can pass each other and benefit from this].

[FiLaBugh]

Now just take that 2% penalty to healing every second from arenas and apply it to ball carriers in Huttball....tank/heal combo OP problem largely solved.

 

Or this..this seems fine to me.