The (unofficial) Quality of Life Thread

[QuinlanSaathis]

It should not take one type of preferred playstyle longer to obtain something then another type of preferred playstyle.

 

Thats like saying one persons fun and enjoyment of how they play is more important than another's. Its not, everyones enjoyment is equal. Everyone's time is also equal in value around work, family and other real life commitments.

 

It shouldn't take longer just because someone prefers a different style of play. It should be equal opportunity for everyones precious time and effort.

 

Thank you

Someone finally gets it.

[PennyAnn]

It should not take one type of preferred playstyle longer to obtain something then another type of preferred playstyle.

 

Thats like saying one persons fun and enjoyment of how they play is more important than another's. Its not, everyones enjoyment is equal. Everyone's time is also equal in value around work, family and other real life commitments.

 

It shouldn't take longer just because someone prefers a different style of play. It should be equal opportunity for everyones precious time and effort.

 

Except it has never, EVER been the way the game was designed from day 1. That's not me, that's the developer's vision. And it's that way in almost every single game out there, frankly. If you are looking for that in an MMO I dare say you will not find it, and SWTOR is the closest you will ever come to such a requirement.

 

So really, it's not like saying that at all. It's like saying that the game has ALWAYS been designed in such a way that the rewards are not equal for the time spent. I'm not saying anything about what it should be or shouldn't be... I'm saying that's how it IS. Not by my design or desire, mind you... but by those who made the game that you and I both play.

 

Even if I agree with you (and I certainly do not disagree, but I don't require the game to work this way) - it has never been that way and still is not. But it's a whole lot better than it used to be, and significantly more that way in SWTOR than any other MMO I've ever played to date (and that's been a whole lot of them dating back to the early 90s).

 

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[PennyAnn]

I don't want to get into the rest of it, but this is simply not possible. One heroic gives you, IIRC, 225 CXP if you're at Tier IV. You need thousands of CXP in order to get one Command Crate (it's about 5450 CXP for Tier IV right now, off the top of my head). So you can't earn a crate just by doing one heroic in the first place. Even on double CXP you wouldn't get there.

 

ETA: the crates you earn from heroics are the *Alliance* crates and they have NO UCs, just random stuff you can keep or vendor. If you're lucky you might get a cute pet or vehicle and there's a companion gift, but there isn't any thing giving UCs. There isn't a disintegrate option at all for the Alliance specialist crates.

 

In every Command Crate there is ONE item,and only one, that can be disintegrated for UCs. The most UCs you can get for a gold GEMINI item at Tier IV is either 9 or 10. That's it. If you're at a lower tier the items give you less UCs when they are disintegrated. There's no way you pulled 43 UCs out of a single Command Crate unless you had some kind of very lucky error.

 

But I agree with the others that this thread has been derailed, I've had a part in that, I apologize, and I've said my piece on this issue. Back to suggestions, and I won't reply to this topic again.

 

Just to clarify: One heroic did not give me enough CXP for a single Command Crate (and yes, it was a command crate, not an alliance crate). I was just giving the amount of UCs from disintegration of one crate's items compared to a warzone match. Sorry for any confusion there.

 

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[PennyAnn]

The rest of your hyperbole aside as it means sweet fa.

You earned 20 UC for doing NOTHING.

 

I played for half to two thirds of a planet to net ONE crate that supplied me with 4 UC.

 

20 for doing NOTHING in PvP

4 for playing through half a planet in PvE

Oh yes that is so very fair, I see it now.......

 

Your numbers have just proven my argument.

 

I earned 20 UC for queueing up for a warzone and playing it to completion with other people. I didn't do nothing, as I mentioned I did earn 3000 objective points. You cannot earn those if you do nothing. But I tried my best to do as little as possible, running around in circles and doing nothing.

 

I got twice as many for disintegrating items from A SINGLE COMMAND CRATE. So no, I did not just prove your argument. But you are determined to plug your ears and hear only what you want to hear despite numerical facts. So not only am I done talking to you about this, I think it's best I put someone like you on /ignore so that I don't get tempted to respond to your nonsense ever again.

 

GLHF - this is a video game and that's what it's all about.

 

To everyone else, I'm again sorry that I took the bait of correcting misinformation with someone who can't be swayed by reason or fact. I too will no longer take up thread space here doing so.

 

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[QuinlanSaathis]

I earned 20 UC for queueing up for a warzone and playing it to completion with other people. I didn't do nothing, as I mentioned I did earn 3000 objective points. You cannot earn those if you do nothing. But I tried my best to do as little as possible, running around in circles and doing nothing.

 

I got twice as many for disintegrating items from A SINGLE COMMAND CRATE. So no, I did not just prove your argument. But you are determined to plug your ears and hear only what you want to hear despite numerical facts. So not only am I done talking to you about this, I think it's best I put someone like you on /ignore so that I don't get tempted to respond to your nonsense ever again.

 

GLHF - this is a video game and that's what it's all about.

 

To everyone else, I'm again sorry that I took the bait of correcting misinformation with someone who can't be swayed by reason or fact. I too will no longer take up thread space here doing so.

 

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You are so wrong and the numbers don't lie.

 

I challenge anyone that thinks I am wrong here to play your own warzone and do nothing.

I guarantee you that you will walk away with more UC than I get from playing half a planet and earning ONE crate.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

If you walk in circles, or go AFK and do not contribute, your rewards suffer for it. You get fewer medals or objectives points, and if anyone finds you they just kill you over and over (and thus earn MORE UCs for themselves). It absolutely affects the amount of UCs you get (cutting them drastically), so nobody is doing this to farm UCs unless they are utterly clueless.

 

I have never, in all my time of playing Warzones seen anyone who just walked around in circles during a match either. I've seen a lot of bad players, playing poorly or ignoring objectives and farming kills/DPS numbers, etc. I've seen people who went AFK during a match get vote kicked from the team, but I've never seen anyone EVER be richly rewarded for behaving like this, and you keep saying it but that doesn't make it true. Sorry, but I've just heard you repeat this enough times that I had to correct the error. Carry on.

 

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I think perhaps you mistook my meaning or perhaps I worded it poorly.

 

"Walking is circles" I don't think was meant literally, rather people afking just standing at a node when there are already enough people do defend and thus just sort of waiting out the clock.

 

I'll be honest with you, I have never even once see anyone get kicked from a WZ. People are fighting, they are doing their thing, and you can't just stop everything to take vote. I trust that you have seen that happen but I havent [shadowlands/Star Forge]

 

Im not sure where I said or implyed that not doing what you are suppose it should or is to be richly rewards, in fact I stated the opposite of that. I said that people who barely try or perform can lead to a team's loss and thusly they tthan get less UCs from "walking in circles" . Winning and you get 20 UCs, loosing reaps far less UCs. So I'm not sure where the disagreement is on that. - Not performing, afking, waiting out the clock, they are great ways to make it likely you'll be getting less UCs. The time investment is the same either way, win/lose.

[PennyAnn]

I think perhaps you mistook my meaning or perhaps I worded it poorly.

 

"Walking is circles" I don't think was meant literally, rather people afking just standing at a node when there are already enough people do defend and thus just sort of waiting out the clock.

 

I'll be honest with you, I have never even once see anyone get kicked from a WZ. People are fighting, they are doing their thing, and you can't just stop everything to take vote. I trust that you have seen that happen but I havent [shadowlands/Star Forge]

 

Im not sure where I said or implyed that not doing what you are suppose it should or is to be richly rewards, in fact I stated the opposite of that. I said that people who barely try or perform can lead to a team's loss and thusly they tthan get less UCs from "walking in circles" . Winning and you get 20 UCs, loosing reaps far less UCs. So I'm not sure where the disagreement is on that. - Not performing, afking, waiting out the clock, they are great ways to make it likely you'll be getting less UCs. The time investment is the same either way, win/lose.

 

Those were not responses aimed at you or what you said, but quotes from someone else in the thread. Sorry for confusion, but I wasn't saying those things based on anything you posted.

 

It happens from time to time that people get kicked from warzones, but there are a lot of people who don't even know you CAN do that. It is possible, and it does happen (but it's infrequent, just like people going AFK in matches seems to be in my experience). I don't play as much as I used to, and certainly don't do as much PvP as I used to either, so there's that.

 

But yes, you and I agree that you don't get well rewarded with UCs or player admiration behaving that way in warzones.

 

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[WayOfTheWarriorx]

You are so wrong and the numbers don't lie.

 

I challenge anyone that thinks I am wrong here to play your own warzone and do nothing.

I guarantee you that you will walk away with more UC than I get from playing half a planet and earning ONE crate.

 

That's because you aren't doing anything to earn UCs. You are trying to gear via only command crates which are pure RNG.

 

What you are dong that way it was the same for everyone from 5.0-5.2. not matter what content they were doing. If you are gearing via only command crates, you are making a decision gear solely by luck knowing full well the "good" gear drops [golds] have a very small chance of coming up on the rng roll.

 

You're quite right that even a loss in PVP will award you some UCs [5] but a win will get you 20 UCs.

 

You are not doing anything that awards UCs so why exactly is it you feel entitled to have the same awards by doing far easier content.?

 

This is simply. Solo play does not recieve those rewards. You know that and you still decided to gear solely by luck of the draw instead of earning it directly. Furthermore it has always been this way. Solo content is brain dead easy, you do not even need the better gear to do it. If having that better gear was re quired to meet the difficulties soloers meet in solo play [ not being difficult at all].

 

You might not like that system, but it is completely fair because it comes right from the source , the devs that made it that way.

 

Penny was right. It has never been easier to gear than right now and up until 5.0, it was an impossibility to earn the better gear doing anything short of the difficult end game content. This is much better then than and makes it much more accessible to all players. Now you can get that gear from RNG from a command box. Really what you are saying is you don't like that it takes longer to gear than people that are doing the harder content than you are. You should be happy that you even have any chance to acquire that gear.

 

I do not agree that solo players should have as much ease and accessibility to the BIS gear as those who are actually doing what is necessary to earn it. [bIS/Gold]. You get out what you put in.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Those were not responses aimed at you or what you said, but quotes from someone else in the thread. Sorry for confusion, but I wasn't saying those things based on anything you posted.

 

It happens from time to time that people get kicked from warzones, but there are a lot of people who don't even know you CAN do that. It is possible, and it does happen (but it's infrequent, just like people going AFK in matches seems to be in my experience). I don't play as much as I used to, and certainly don't do as much PvP as I used to either, so there's that.

 

But yes, you and I agree that you don't get well rewarded with UCs or player admiration behaving that way in warzones.

 

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Ahh, okay, sorry bout that, i thought it was directed at me which confused me because my stance is the same as your stance on it heh. I couldn't agree with you more

Edited June 4, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[QuinlanSaathis]

That's because you aren't doing anything to earn UCs. You are trying to gear via only command crates which are pure RNG.

 

What you are dong that way it was the same for everyone from 5.0-5.2. not matter what content they were doing. If you are gearing via only command crates, you are making a decision gear solely by luck knowing full well the "good" gear drops [golds] have a very small chance of coming up on the rng roll.

 

You're quite right that even a loss in PVP will award you some UCs [5] but a win will get you 20 UCs.

 

You are not doing anything that awards UCs so why exactly is it you feel entitled to have the same awards by doing far easier content.?

 

This is simply. Solo play does not recieve those rewards. You know that and you still decided to gear solely by luck of the draw instead of earning it directly. Furthermore it has always been this way. Solo content is brain dead easy, you do not even need the better gear to do it. If having that better gear was re quired to meet the difficulties soloers meet in solo play [ not being difficult at all].

 

You might not like that system, but it is completely fair because it comes right from the source , the devs that made it that way.

 

Penny was right. It has never been easier to gear than right now and up until 5.0, it was an impossibility to earn the better gear doing anything short of the difficult end game content. This is much better then than and makes it much more accessible to all players. Now you can get that gear from RNG from a command box. Really what you are saying is you don't like that it takes longer to gear than people that are doing the harder content than you are. You should be happy that you even have any chance to acquire that gear.

 

I do not agree that solo players should have as much ease and accessibility to the BIS gear as those who are actually doing what is necessary to earn it. [bIS/Gold]. You get out what you put in.

 

Nothing I haven't heard before.

Take what you are given, shut up and be thankful that you even get that much because you don't deserve it.

Your not good enough, the content you play is not hard enough...

 

elitist bullcrap.

 

Suzsi put it so very well...

 

It should not take one type of preferred playstyle longer to obtain something then another type of preferred playstyle.

 

Thats like saying one persons fun and enjoyment of how they play is more important than another's. Its not, everyones enjoyment is equal. Everyone's time is also equal in value around work, family and other real life commitments.

 

It shouldn't take longer just because someone prefers a different style of play. It should be equal opportunity for everyones precious time and effort.

Edited June 4, 2018 by QuinlanSaathis

[PennyAnn]

Ahh, okay, sorry bout that, i thought it was directed at me which confused me because my stance is the same as your stance on it heh. I couldn't agree with you more

 

No worries, mate. Also... I saw that you responded to QuinlanSaathis and spoke facts to him. Hopefully you have better luck than I did, but be careful... he tends to make this personal instead of realizing that the game design is what it is. I am done attending the pity party of "unequal rights" and will just watch the unfair treatment protest rally from afar from now on.

 

When I can't point out the fact that a warzone loss is 5 UCs (whether you participate or not), a win is 20 UCs, but disintegrating two items from a single command crate gave me 43 UCs and have that make sense to someone, I really don't know what else to say.

 

I've been trying to point out that the gearing inequity has never been more fair, but my thoughts mean "sweet f-all" according to him. So, we're done talking. Like... permanently (/ignore is your friend!).

 

Expecting all types of play to be rewarded equally... how's that working for ya? Because it has never happened in an MMO. That's not elitism talking, that's game design 101 FACTS.

 

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Edited June 4, 2018 by PennyAnn

[QuinlanSaathis]

 

Expecting all types of play to be rewarded equally... how's that working for ya? Because it has never happened in an MMO. That's not elitism talking, that's game design 101 FACTS.

 

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This was the only thing in that post worthy of a response.

Not so good, but I never expected the fight for this to be easy.

Doesn't mean I should stop trying though.

[kodrac]

Nothing I haven't heard before.

Take what you are given, shut up and be thankful that you even get that much because you don't deserve it.

Your not good enough, the content you play is not hard enough...

 

elitist bullcrap.

 

Suzsi put it so very well...

 

That's not at all what he said. You just take this far too personally. Your hatred of PvP doesn't allow you to see things clearly.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

This was the only thing in that post worthy of a response.

Not so good, but I never expected the fight for this to be easy.

Doesn't mean I should stop trying though.

 

As much as I don't share your view on this you absolutely have the right to your opinion and to keep trying. I wouldn't take that away from anyone even if I could no matter how much I might disagree.

 

I can't stop you from believing this is about elitism. I have no doubt you believe that is the what's at play here. I cannot however state it any simpler than you just happen to be mistaken on this.

 

Consider this, how can you come to a conclusion about something you have never done or understand from experience? Perhaps if you tried some of these content UC activities [ PVP/Operations] you would see why we believe as we do. Solo activity content does even remotely approach all the details you are faced with in the harder content. Solers can do some heroics in a minute or 2 [some are long tho but not much] that are really like virtualy impossible to fail and not one poses any challange to a player. Operations can take hours, they require a certain level of DPS/Heals without which they would be unable to get through. Mastery of rotation compentency is required even when dealing with mechanics that you must respond to no matter what it does to your performance sometimes. You also need to know all these mechanics and how best to respond to them.

 

In PVP you stand or die by your skill with people constantly trying to kill you and often more than one at the same time so you need understand exactly how your dcds work and also when best to use them. If your dps is low and you don't know your class and spec inside and how you will die for certain by more competent PVPers. So again, they require some minimum standards that could never be obtained doing nothing but solo play.

 

It's not an insult, no one is saying it's wrong to only play solo, they are saying you simply are not aware what the harder content involves and you know what? That was the case to every single raider and pvper when they started out. They couldn't possibly have sucked more. In the harder content you sink or you swim. The minimums are really not all that difficult to be able to perform with a bit of practice and research. You should try it sometimes, you might find u like it and if not at least you'd understand it better. It's just a game. Nothing can hurt you. No harm in trying right?!?

[QuinlanSaathis]

As much as I don't share your view on this you absolutely have the right to your opinion and to keep trying. I wouldn't take that away from anyone even if I could no matter how much I might disagree.

 

I can't stop you from believing this is about elitism. I have no doubt you believe that is the what's at play here. I cannot however state it any simpler than you just happen to be mistaken on this.

 

Consider this, how can you come to a conclusion about something you have never done or understand from experience? Perhaps if you tried some of these content UC activities [ PVP/Operations] you would see why we believe as we do. Solo activity content does even remotely approach all the details you are faced with in the harder content. Solers can do some heroics in a minute or 2 [some are long tho but not much] that are really like virtualy impossible to fail and not one poses any challange to a player. Operations can take hours, they require a certain level of DPS/Heals without which they would be unable to get through. Mastery of rotation compentency is required even when dealing with mechanics that you must respond to no matter what it does to your performance sometimes. You also need to know all these mechanics and how best to respond to them.

 

In PVP you stand or die by your skill with people constantly trying to kill you and often more than one at the same time so you need understand exactly how your dcds work and also when best to use them. If your dps is low and you don't know your class and spec inside and how you will die for certain by more competent PVPers. So again, they require some minimum standards that could never be obtained doing nothing but solo play.

 

It's not an insult, no one is saying it's wrong to only play solo, they are saying you simply are not aware what the harder content involves and you know what? That was the case to every single raider and pvper when they started out. They couldn't possibly have sucked more. In the harder content you sink or you swim. The minimums are really not all that difficult to be able to perform with a bit of practice and research. You should try it sometimes, you might find u like it and if not at least you'd understand it better. It's just a game. Nothing can hurt you. No harm in trying right?!?

 

Actually I was a hardcore progression raider for many years in many games and I was also deeply into PvP.

I raided in TOR but I did not PvP, I was done with that before moving into TOR.

 

So yes I have years of experience in what you speak and you are saying the truth but it doesn't matter.

So what if its "always been this way" everything is always the way it is till it isn't.

This needs to change, its about time for our play-style to be recognized as valid and rewarded the same as any other.

The same rewards for the same time investment.

[Suzsi]

Except it has never, EVER been the way the game was designed from day 1. That's not me, that's the developer's vision. And it's that way in almost every single game out there, frankly. If you are looking for that in an MMO I dare say you will not find it, and SWTOR is the closest you will ever come to such a requirement.

 

So really, it's not like saying that at all. It's like saying that the game has ALWAYS been designed in such a way that the rewards are not equal for the time spent. I'm not saying anything about what it should be or shouldn't be... I'm saying that's how it IS. Not by my design or desire, mind you... but by those who made the game that you and I both play.

 

Even if I agree with you (and I certainly do not disagree, but I don't require the game to work this way) - it has never been that way and still is not. But it's a whole lot better than it used to be, and significantly more that way in SWTOR than any other MMO I've ever played to date (and that's been a whole lot of them dating back to the early 90s).

 

.

 

Just because this MMO and every other out there has done it differently in the past, does not make it right to continue forwards with the same short sightedness. If people don't speak up, MMOs on the whole will never improve this mindset

Edited June 5, 2018 by Suzsi

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Actually I was a hardcore progression raider for many years in many games and I was also deeply into PvP.

I raided in TOR but I did not PvP, I was done with that before moving into TOR.

 

So yes I have years of experience in what you speak and you are saying the truth but it doesn't matter.

So what if its "always been this way" everything is always the way it is till it isn't.

This needs to change, its about time for our play-style to be recognized as valid and rewarded the same as any other.

The same rewards for the same time investment.

 

Okay, I understand your point of view better now. You recognize that there is much more involved in the harder content and what it requires and why it awards greater rewards than solo. Even though it has always been that way you feel it should change now.

 

I don't think people who only do solo are "less important" or less entitled to enjoy their form of entertainment in the manner they like best. I do agree to a certain extent that people shouldn't be forced into doing content they don't enjoy doing. But the reality is, there is no disadvantage to soloers ability and ease to complete the content they do by them not having the best gear in the game. If you were a progression raider you must know that as an absolute certainty. With that in mind, why would you feel it necessary to 'upset the cart' over something that principally has no effect on a soloers ability to complete solo content than?

 

I could contend a compromise here though. If they were to make solo content that offered the same level of challange to a solo player as the difficulties faced by individual players in the harder content [i.e. DPS checks, fight mechanics, understanding and mastering a spec, time investment, etc] I'd have no objection to an increase in rewards to solo players who were completing solo content with a similar difficulty level raiders/pvpers face.

 

That would allow solo players to not have to group with other players [i get why some people don't like that, as a former raider you know about the toxicity and issues that can sometimes arise in group content] but not reward them the same rewards as harder content players receive for solo content that isn't to a similar difficulty level faced by an individual and doesn't require less knowledge or skill to complete. [sort of like you will never find a heroic that will present as much of a challenge as a Flash point, or a Flash point as difficult as a nim level operation].

 

That said, I couldn't agree with [and I don't imagine many Raiders or end game PVPers would] rewards like you get for Operations/WZs being given for Heroic and storyline content. It would piss too many people off and I'm not saying you should care about that, but BW needs to because pissing off raiders and end game PVPs by awarding similar rewards they get in their content for the completion of Heroics/Storyline would very likely lead a loss of players. They'd have to consider the bottom line there.

 

I'm not going to lie to you and say that I now agree with your reasoning when I don't [although I think I understand it better than I did now], all I can say is that at least for me my disagreement on the perspective isn't based on Elitism but rather from a perspective of fair play. That being you get out of it what you put into it. If you do simple content you shouldn't get the same rewards as those who have to put up with more difficulties and longer time investments.

 

MMOs are all about carrots hanging from the tips of sticks as incentive. Most people will not take the harder road if they will get the same out of it by taking the easier road. Without that incentive you have less reasons for people to continue to play a game. There always needs to be more and better rewards further up the path somewhere, because if there isn't there is not reason to see what further up the path because when you no longer need anything, you have no reason to do anything and than people move on to other games.

[QuinlanSaathis]

 

I don't think people who only do solo are "less important" or less entitled to enjoy their form of entertainment in the manner they like best. I do agree to a certain extent that people shouldn't be forced into doing content they don't enjoy doing. But the reality is, there is no disadvantage to soloers ability and ease to complete the content they do by them not having the best gear in the game. If you were a progression raider you must know that as an absolute certainty. With that in mind, why would you feel it necessary to 'upset the cart' over something that principally has no effect on a soloers ability to complete solo content than?

 

Because times are changing and after seeing both sides of this coin I have realized that this aspect needs to change also, the cart needs to be broken down and rebuilt, with all 4 wheels on the ground rather than the 3 it has now.

 

I could contend a compromise here though. If they were to make solo content that offered the same level of challange to a solo player as the difficulties faced by individual players in the harder content [i.e. DPS checks, fight mechanics, understanding and mastering a spec, time investment, etc] I'd have no objection to an increase in rewards to solo players who were completing solo content with a similar difficulty level raiders/pvpers face.

 

Most Solo'ers would kill for this change, we don't want easy.

 

That would allow solo players to not have to group with other players [i get why some people don't like that, as a former raider you know about the toxicity and issues that can sometimes arise in group content] but not reward them the same rewards as harder content players receive for solo content that isn't to a similar difficulty level faced by an individual and doesn't require less knowledge or skill to complete. [sort of like you will never find a heroic that will present as much of a challenge as a Flash point, or a Flash point as difficult as a nim level operation].

 

That said, I couldn't agree with [and I don't imagine many Raiders or end game PVPers would] rewards like you get for Operations/WZs being given for Heroic and storyline content. It would piss too many people off and I'm not saying you should care about that, but BW needs to because pissing off raiders and end game PVPs by awarding similar rewards they get in their content for the completion of Heroics/Storyline would very likely lead a loss of players. They'd have to consider the bottom line there.

 

I feel once again you have lost sight of the fact that I am not talking about BiS gear. I just want one set of Tier1 gear per character without having to spend 2000CC on it or rely on RNG. But I still want to EARN it, if possible however if it is not I will take it as a handout.

I have characters that I cannot bring forth because they have not been lucky with RNG and cannot handle themselves in the new "story" flash points.

 

I'm not going to lie to you and say that I now agree with your reasoning when I don't [although I think I understand it better than I did now], all I can say is that at least for me my disagreement on the perspective isn't based on Elitism but rather from a perspective of fair play. That being you get out of it what you put into it. If you do simple content you shouldn't get the same rewards as those who have to put up with more difficulties and longer time investments.

 

The more of your posts I read the the more I respect your opinion, unlike PennyAnn you present a valid argument without completely dismissing the other side, I misjudged you when I tagged you as elitist.

 

MMOs are all about carrots hanging from the tips of sticks as incentive. Most people will not take the harder road if they will get the same out of it by taking the easier road. Without that incentive you have less reasons for people to continue to play a game. There always needs to be more and better rewards further up the path somewhere, because if there isn't there is not reason to see what further up the path because when you no longer need anything, you have no reason to do anything and than people move on to other games.

 

Would It really truly upset raiders if we got a Tier1 set without RNG?

How many raiders and PvP'ers give a crap about Tier1?

Edited June 6, 2018 by QuinlanSaathis

[damonskye]

Seems to me that the complaint about solo content would be that it offer the same rewards as group content.

 

The easy solution is that it not... and that it follow the SAME model as we have now.

 

I've advocated strongly for solo versions of the rest of the flashpoints in the game as well as solo versions of operations, just to see the story. For the rewards? CXP and the occasional bonus item (like, currently, how solo FPs give casino chips).

 

I'd run solo operations all the time, just to get CXP out of them. That would be infinitely more preferable to yet another week of running Yavin, Ziost, CZ-138 and Iokath dailies. More CXP = more chances to get Tier 1 gear.

 

This is exactly what solo flashpoints and the KOTFE/KOTET chapters do. I can't see why people would object to that. If you don't like that, run standard operations where you get better gear.

[PennyAnn]

Just because this MMO and every other out there has done it differently in the past, does not make it right to continue forwards with the same short sightedness. If people don't speak up, MMOs on the whole will never improve this mindset

 

The right and wrong of how a game is designed is up to the developer, not you or me. We can hope that they will take our suggestions to make a game more fun in our opinions, but at the end of the day, what is "short sighted" is subjective. And the only subjective opinion that matters is the one that writes the code.

 

They may know full well that they have a slower curve for story only players who can't ever "fail" a quest line, and be not only fine with that, but purposefully develop the game that way in order to make it take longer to play through said game, stringing out your subscription dollars to them to make as much money as possible. The model has always been to attach the best rewards to parts of the game that you have to work at, repeat, and stay subscribed for to earn. They are a business, after all. They make games to make money.

 

I am not against movements in the direction you're aiming at all, however. It wouldn't change how I play the game or affect me at all (unless it became too easy to get gear, because I like a little challenge to my game play). I'm just saying that if you are expecting it, demanding it, and asking that other types of game play be punished until that happens, then you're likely just setting yourself up to be disappointed (while perhaps also being a little unrealistic, given the way things are in these games). But hey, it's just a game! It's not nearly as important as spurring social change in the real world, but that doesn't make it totally meaningless, either.

 

Making the suggestion that difficulty of content be thrown out the window and time invested be the only way we measure gear progression is absolutely a suggestion you have the right to make. I wish you well with that effort. I only point out that being overly dramatic about the expectations seems out of the blue to me, as this game and all others have always worked this way. I would never stand in the way of the game being changed to someone else's preference so long as that didn't hinder other players. Live and let live. Enjoy and let enjoy.

 

.

[kirorx]

Allow us to sort/move our Stronghold list. I had to move my vendors/banks to another stronghold because my DK stronghold now appears on the second page... and that's really annoying.

 

How about characters in character selection too. I want to keep my mains on the first page even if I play an alt

[kirorx]

Because times are changing and after seeing both sides of this coin I have realized that this aspect needs to change also, the cart needs to be broken down and rebuilt, with all 4 wheels on the ground rather than the 3 it has now.

 

 

 

Most Solo'ers would kill for this change, we don't want easy.

 

That would allow solo players to not have to group with other players [i get why some people don't like that, as a former raider you know about the toxicity and issues that can sometimes arise in group content] but not reward them the same rewards as harder content players receive for solo content that isn't to a similar difficulty level faced by an individual and doesn't require less knowledge or skill to complete. [sort of like you will never find a heroic that will present as much of a challenge as a Flash point, or a Flash point as difficult as a nim level operation].

 

 

 

I feel once again you have lost sight of the fact that I am not talking about BiS gear. I just want one set of Tier1 gear per character without having to spend 2000CC on it or rely on RNG. But I still want to EARN it, if possible however if it is not I will take it as a handout.

I have characters that I cannot bring forth because they have not been lucky with RNG and cannot handle themselves in the new "story" flash points.

 

 

 

The more of your posts I read the the more I respect your opinion, unlike PennyAnn you present a valid argument without completely dismissing the other side, I misjudged you when I tagged you as elitist.

 

 

 

Would It really truly upset raiders if we got a Tier1 set without RNG?

How many raiders and PvP'ers give a crap about Tier1?

 

You don’t use RNG for tier 1 gear. You buy it with tokens and you should have more than enough by the time you hit level 70

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

My responses are in Red.

 

 

Because times are changing and after seeing both sides of this coin I have realized that this aspect needs to change also, the cart needs to be broken down and rebuilt, with all 4 wheels on the ground rather than the 3 it has now.

 

 

 

Most Solo'ers would kill for this change, we don't want easy.

 

I personally would be totally fine with this and could not see any reason than why they shouldn't be able to earning similar rewards with this type of new harder solo type content. They'd be earning it fair and square and still be able to preserve their chosen playstyle [solo]. Not everyone is the same, not everyone likes the same things, there is no right or wrong in preference.

 

That would allow solo players to not have to group with other players [i get why some people don't like that, as a former raider you know about the toxicity and issues that can sometimes arise in group content] but not reward them the same rewards as harder content players receive for solo content that isn't to a similar difficulty level faced by an individual and doesn't require less knowledge or skill to complete. [sort of like you will never find a heroic that will present as much of a challenge as a Flash point, or a Flash point as difficult as a nim level operation].

 

 

 

I feel once again you have lost sight of the fact that I am not talking about BiS gear. I just want one set of Tier1 gear per character without having to spend 2000CC on it or rely on RNG. But I still want to EARN it, if possible however if it is not I will take it as a handout.

I have characters that I cannot bring forth because they have not been lucky with RNG and cannot handle themselves in the new "story" flash points.

 

You are right, I did forget that, I'm an idiot =]

 

 

 

The more of your posts I read the the more I respect your opinion, unlike PennyAnn you present a valid argument without completely dismissing the other side, I misjudged you when I tagged you as elitist.

 

I think we both realized that at first glance we really didn't see where the other one was coming from and than came out more as we responded to each other and we were better able to understand the view point of the other.

 

Would It really truly upset raiders if we got a Tier1 set without RNG?

How many raiders and PvP'ers give a crap about Tier1?

 

I'll be honest with you, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest and you should be able to get Tier 1 gear with a fair degree of ease by doing the proposed solo mode [harder level comparively] content. That allows you at least the benefits of having a full 6 piece set bonus and still leaves players who earned higher Tier gear in the harder end game content without any reason to feel jipped or feel their efforts didn't matter or wasn't worth the time investment., their gear would still be notably better. I definately think Soloers should be able to earn Tier 1 gear with some harder solo level content as proposed , no question. There is still room than for the carrot at the end of the stick. Raiders and end game PVPers would still clearly hold a decisive edge gear wise. I hope they will consider some of these suggestions and considerations.

[Nmyownworld]

-- Being able to sort characters on character selection screen.

-- Being able to sort SHs on the SH selection screen.

-- Add character creation selection for facial tattoos options without extra makeup for female characters. I love the blue facial tattoo for some of my human female characters. However, the mandatory lipstick and purple eyeshadow with that tattoo works my last good nerve.

-- Weapons as a part of Outfit Designer. Yes, please.

-- Stop with 2 copies of a mount from Collections on to my QBs. Don't drop any copies of mounts on my QBs.

-- Make solo versions of all FPs.

-- Allow for the Ilum story arc to be Abandoned from the mission log.

-- Make Exploration Missions ticked "on" the default when creating a new character. New players don't know about those missions; some returning players think many missions were removed from the game.

-- Return to allowing outfits without a dye slot to be dyeable in Outfit Designer.

-- Add CM deco unlocks to Collections.

[QuinlanSaathis]

I'll be honest with you, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest and you should be able to get Tier 1 gear with a fair degree of ease by doing the proposed solo mode [harder level comparively] content. That allows you at least the benefits of having a full 6 piece set bonus and still leaves players who earned higher Tier gear in the harder end game content without any reason to feel jipped or feel their efforts didn't matter or wasn't worth the time investment., their gear would still be notably better. I definately think Soloers should be able to earn Tier 1 gear with some harder solo level content as proposed , no question. There is still room than for the carrot at the end of the stick. Raiders and end game PVPers would still clearly hold a decisive edge gear wise. I hope they will consider some of these suggestions and considerations.

 

Join the fight

Edited June 6, 2018 by QuinlanSaathis