The (unofficial) Quality of Life Thread

[Sportiva]

Spec-switching QoL improvements:

1) Multiple equipment tabs similar to appearance tabs to store equipment for different specs

2) Ability to save UI/Hot bar setups for different specs

3) Ability to save Utility profiles for different specs

[Jdast]

The PvP gear also had set bonuses on it. The PvE gear you bought from vendors with crystals did not, and was poorly optimized. So it wasn't exactly the same. But it was good enough for the content you would run wearing that gear, as supported by your statement.

 

Why is that any different now? The gear you got for PvP was better than the gear you got for PvE via vendors, and you could min/max it to be really pretty decent. Nobody complained about that. And look, you are still "getting". In fact, you are "getting" better than you have ever had it in the history of this game. You would absolutely never in a million years have had access to this gear without running operations or participating in PvP, and certainly not at the levels that they give you in crates or via vendors using UCs. So you're still getting better than ever. I just don't understand all the vitriol personally.

 

Making this about your "right" to gear is so over the top that I'm not even going to go there.

 

If it's your "right", then do the content to get it just like everyone else. You will hear no argument from me.

 

.

 

Exactly. I think the difference here is philosophical my dear PennyAnn. You and I think one way, others another -- and never the twain shall meet. One is not right or wrong -- it just is.

 

We don't view the game in a zero-sum fashion. I personally don't care if some people gear up slightly faster via PvP if that helps keep the game alive. Fairness doesn't enter into my equation at all. I play the class and planetary stories regardless of level for a very simple reason -- I enjoy them (though I want to write a sternly worded letter to the person who designed the layout of Belsavis and Corellia ). I don't buy the Master Datacrons, because frankly, the CXP rewards for class and planetary quests are too low, and I know I'm going to hit 70 well before I have completed the main story line (meaning through Ilum / False Emperor).

 

Particularly when you consider now that leveling to 70 is inconsequential in terms of time, I don't see what the complaint about incentivizing lower-level PvP is exactly. Moreover, and I may well be in the minority on this -- gearing is actually pretty easy now, particularly if you play a lot of alts like I do.

 

Bottom line, though, if Trixie hits 70 with some more CXP and UC's than when I do, but in so doing she and other players had fun and will keep leveling alts, it impacts my gameplay not in the slightest. Some people choose (as is their right) to let this impact them because they feel (as is their right) that the perception of fair play is relevant. It is to some to degree, but rewarding low level PvP with UC's and / or CXP to me is inconsequential in the grand scheme. Obviously, others disagree.

 

Dasty

Edited June 2, 2018 by Jdast

[QuinlanSaathis]

The PvP gear also had set bonuses on it. The PvE gear you bought from vendors with crystals did not, and was poorly optimized. So it wasn't exactly the same. But it was good enough for the content you would run wearing that gear, as supported by your statement.

 

Why is that any different now? The gear you got for PvP was better than the gear you got for PvE via vendors, and you could min/max it to be really pretty decent. Nobody complained about that. And look, you are still "getting". In fact, you are "getting" better than you have ever had it in the history of this game. You would absolutely never in a million years have had access to this gear without running operations or participating in PvP, and certainly not at the levels that they give you in crates or via vendors using UCs. So you're still getting better than ever. I just don't understand all the vitriol personally.

 

Making this about your "right" to gear is so over the top that I'm not even going to go there.

 

If it's your "right", then do the content to get it just like everyone else. You will hear no argument from me.

 

.

 

The biggest difference is time.

I have already stated that by the time we were ready for our gear (which was as you said clearly inferior or all other gear) we had almost enough crystals to buy the set outright.

 

Now, without the leg up of the Masters Datacron by the time we hit level we are just starting to collect so it takes a LOT longer to get the gear and lets face it, our accumulation of UC is so low that we have to completely rely on RNG anyway.

I can also tell you out of the 4 characters I have made with the Datacron, not one of them has completed a full set of gear through RNG by playing through the story up to the end of vanilla which is Ilum.

 

So yeah its not fair.

Its not within the vision of play anything you want because it is clearly an inferior method of gearing and it always has been. I am not asking for more however only parity.

If PvP gets it then we should get it ito.

[PennyAnn]

Not really your reason is purely down to not enough people playing lowbie it needs incentive's to do it but there is nothing special about lowbie pvp that warrants "special attention" over other areas of the game.

 

Take 2 players for example under your suggestion:

 

Player 1 will level 1-70 mostly through Pvp

Player 2 will level 1-70 through other areas and plans to do master mode chapters and HM flashpoints at level cap.

 

Player 2 will reach level 70 without any UC's or command tokens while player 1 will have lots of UC's and while still needing command tokens they are gained at a much faster rate than UC's.

 

There is no reason why this play style should be "prioritized" either nobody should get UC's pre level 70 or UC's come from other areas such as heroics, flash points though especially with the incoming PvP changes, warzones will still be the perferred method.

 

If other areas of the game also required attention to encourage people to continue playing them, I'd be fine with it. I would also be fine with whatever method they DO use to encourage people to play lowbie PvP. There used to be incentive in the form of a way to gear up for PvP when you hit max level. I'm simply suggesting they return to the model that was always there to encourage it.

 

If it needs to be "fair", then find an area of PvE that needs low level encouragement and add UCs there, too. I'm much more of a "reward everyone for playing all parts of the game" than I am "reward no one because people get jealous of one group's rewards rather than participating in that activity". It might... I dunno, encourage more people to try it. And since that's the goal, I would consider that a success.

 

But in no way am I suggesting that it should be the only way to get access to UCs pre-70. Neither am I suggesting it is the best and only solution to solving the very real problem of low population (and therefore once-in-a-blue-moon queue pops) of lowbie and midbie PvP. It's just the only suggestion that's been made. And I'd rather we do something to help a part of the game than do nothing and let it continue to dwindle yet another area of game play and population of players.

 

.

[PennyAnn]

Exactly. I think the difference here is philosophical my dear PennyAnn. You and I think one way, others another -- and never the twain shall meet. One is not right or wrong -- it just is.

 

We don't view the game in a zero-sum fashion. I personally don't care if some people gear up slightly faster via PvP if that helps keep the game alive. Fairness doesn't enter into my equation at all. I play the class and planetary stories regardless of level for a very simple reason -- I enjoy them (though I want to write a sternly worded letter to the person who designed the layout of Belsavis and Corellia ). I don't buy the Master Datacrons, because frankly, the CXP rewards for class and planetary quests are too low, and I know I'm going to hit 70 well before I have completed the main story line (meaning through Ilum / False Emperor).

 

Particularly when you consider now that leveling to 70 is inconsequential in terms of time, I don't see what the complaint about incentivizing lower-level PvP is exactly. Moreover, and I may well be in the minority on this -- gearing is actually pretty easy now, particularly if you play a lot of alts like I do.

 

Bottom line, though, if Trixie hits 70 with some more CXP and UC's than when I do, but in so doing she and other players had fun and will keep leveling alts, it impacts my gameplay not in the slightest. Some people choose (as is their right) to let this impact them because they feel (as is their right) that the perception of fair play is relevant. It is to some to degree, but rewarding low level PvP with UC's and / or CXP to me is inconsequential in the grand scheme. Obviously, others disagree.

 

Dasty

 

Oh Dasty... <3

 

I responded to Jedi_riches before I read this, pretty much saying exactly what you are saying to me here. Thank you for "getting me".

 

I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just trying to see that dying parts of the game don't die. I too have no problem with different parts of the game being rewarded differently. I don't need everything to be "fair" or "equal" because they never, EVER have been... until now! Now everyone has practically the same access to gear (just at different speeds) when before they had NO access. I guess give people an inch and... well, you know where I'm going with this.

 

Edited to add: That said, I agree that it has never been easier. And here's a little secret for you: I have 3 complete sets of optimized 248 gear (no new augments because I won't waste my money on that), and a minimum of 242 gear (complete set) for each spec in the game. I never, EVER could have dreamed of having such wonderful gear for all alts before until this system came into play. And, since I don't really high-end raid much or do ranked very often, I don't even NEED it! It's really just a trophy - "look at my shiny gold labeled gear that I don't need or really put to serious use!". So I understand people's protectiveness now that it is this easy, but for me... it shouldn't allow us to ignore a real issue that deserves a solution to save a part of the game that may otherwise disappear.

 

Either way, I am more than okay with having a difference of opinion with any/all of you, and will never use that difference of opinion to form my opinions of you as players or people. Hopefully we can at least all agree to that premise and our differences won't matter nearly as much as long as that is the case.

 

.

Edited June 2, 2018 by PennyAnn

[PennyAnn]

The biggest difference is time.

I have already stated that by the time we were ready for our gear (which was as you said clearly inferior or all other gear) we had almost enough crystals to buy the set outright.

 

Now, without the leg up of the Masters Datacron by the time we hit level we are just starting to collect so it takes a LOT longer to get the gear and lets face it, our accumulation of UC is so low that we have to completely rely on RNG anyway.

I can also tell you out of the 4 characters I have made with the Datacron, not one of them has completed a full set of gear through RNG by playing through the story up to the end of vanilla which is Ilum.

 

So yeah its not fair.

Its not within the vision of play anything you want because it is clearly an inferior method of gearing and it always has been. I am not asking for more however only parity.

If PvP gets it then we should get it ito.

 

You get a full set of 230 gear with the Master's Datacron, putting you ahead of the curve with a head to toe set of gear right there, and have to make zero effort to have it (other than the effort of making cartel coins or credits to buy one, which I agree is significant, but not as much time as grinding lowbie warzones to get to 70 from level 10).

 

I'm glad to hear that you don't have a full set of BiS gear just by playing the storyline. You wouldn't have one from running lowbie PvP either, even with a few UCs given as a reward for each match. I'm sure as you are aware, the amount of UCs required for an entire set of gear is high enough that even regular PvP takes a long time and a lot of matches to reach a "full set". But I don't think that should be the ruler we measure by. I am not suggesting that anybody be able to completely gear a character by a single method. I happen to enjoy the fact that there are multiple ways to do so, and currently the hardest levels of operations still are the quickest/easiest way to top tier gear tokens. Then you just have to do some PvP for left side stuff and you're well set.

 

But even though that's the case, and the hardest operations in the game are rewarded with the best gear, no one is complaining. And we're not talking about UCs, we're talking about gear tokens that are available in a single boss kill, not a multitutde of PvP matches. I'm okay with that! More than okay with that because that's how it has always been in the history of this game (excepting the short amount of time when Bioware lost their minds and took gear drops out of operations completely).

 

As Dasty so wisely stated (All hail Dasty!): It hasn't ever really been fair, and is more fair now than ever... but I don't care about it being "fair". I don't need it to be "fair" to enjoy the game. If I want to earn gear faster, and there is a method to do so, I will try it, give it my best, and not look ill upon it just because there is some slight advantage to it vs. other modes of play in the game. Especially because encouraging more people to play said portion of the game is exactly what the goal of this is... and I'd rather see more people happily playing ALL parts of the game, than stifle some minor rewards just because all parts of the game may not be rewarded equally.

 

As Dasty also said: We don't agree on this. I'm okay with that, honestly. I just hope such disagreement doesn't see lowbie/midbie PvP suffer because of it. That would be sad, and a loss to the game overall whether you or I personally played that part of the game or not.

 

Cheers.

 

.

[QuinlanSaathis]

I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just trying to see that dying parts of the game don't die. I too have no problem with different parts of the game being rewarded differently. I don't need everything to be "fair" or "equal" because they never, EVER have been... until now! Now everyone has practically the same access to gear (just at different speeds) when before they had NO access. I guess give people an inch and... well, you know where I'm going with this.

.

 

If you don't want to start a fight then I suggest you stop insinuating that everything is now fair and even.....

Until Now, Solo'ers were the red headed step child we got nothing, no consideration for our game play style and complete ridicule from the so-called "hardcore" gamers.

 

We still have the longest road to grind and the worst progression model in the game to the point where it can take us 2x or 3x as long to get the first tier of gear that is pretty much guaranteed to other forms of play within a couple of weeks of hitting the relevant marks, most of us never see tier2 let alone 3 or 4 (is there a 4?)

So if you don't care about different parts of the game being rewarded why aren't you fighting for us as well?

 

I am fighting to keep my play style alive and if I have to advocate taking from PvP to do that then I will but what I actually said was "....if PvP gets it then PvE should get it as well"

 

This is the same basic argument of the Civil Rights movement.

(No I am not comparing the struggle for equal rights in America with this discussion over two game play styles so keep your hateful comments to yourself)

 

If you scale this argument up many 100's or 1000's of times it is the same core argument.

One group has been treated poorly and is well behind the other in progression

Yes it is better than what it was at the beginning but by no means is it fair or equal yet

In neither scenario is it acceptable to "Buff" the already privileged group unless the same is applied to the other

 

Widening the privilege gap in either of these scenarios is completely unacceptable and should never be allowed.

[QuinlanSaathis]

You get a full set of 230 gear with the Master's Datacron, putting you ahead of the curve with a head to toe set of gear right there, and have to make zero effort to have it (other than the effort of making cartel coins or credits to buy one, which I agree is significant, but not as much time as grinding lowbie warzones to get to 70 from level 10).

.

 

I pay real money for that and that is the only way I can come close to what you guys get for free through your chosen method of play.

 

I'm glad to hear that you don't have a full set of BiS gear just by playing the storyline. You wouldn't have one from running lowbie PvP either, even with a few UCs given as a reward for each match. I'm sure as you are aware, the amount of UCs required for an entire set of gear is high enough that even regular PvP takes a long time and a lot of matches to reach a "full set". But I don't think that should be the ruler we measure by. I am not suggesting that anybody be able to completely gear a character by a single method. I happen to enjoy the fact that there are multiple ways to do so, and currently the hardest levels of operations still are the quickest/easiest way to top tier gear tokens. Then you just have to do some PvP for left side stuff and you're well set.

.

 

We don't get BiS at all. My arguments center around the lowest Tier of gear. Yes it comes free if we pay for a Datacron but you can do that also and get the same gear. Not many Solo'er's (or Story Players) will ever get tier2,3 or 4.

 

But even though that's the case, and the hardest operations in the game are rewarded with the best gear, no one is complaining. And we're not talking about UCs, we're talking about gear tokens that are available in a single boss kill, not a multitutde of PvP matches. I'm okay with that! More than okay with that because that's how it has always been in the history of this game (excepting the short amount of time when Bioware lost their minds and took gear drops out of operations completely).

.

 

I have no problem with OP's there are no progression ops, no lowbie ops, Ops start at 70 there is no argument here.

I also don't care about lvl70 PvP. While I would like ti gone like all forms of PvP it is not part of this discussion.

 

As Dasty so wisely stated (All hail Dasty!): It hasn't ever really been fair, and is more fair now than ever... but I don't care about it being "fair". I don't need it to be "fair" to enjoy the game. If I want to earn gear faster, and there is a method to do so, I will try it, give it my best, and not look ill upon it just because there is some slight advantage to it vs. other modes of play in the game. Especially because encouraging more people to play said portion of the game is exactly what the goal of this is... and I'd rather see more people happily playing ALL parts of the game, than stifle some minor rewards just because all parts of the game may not be rewarded equally.

.

 

More fair is not fair.

I do need it to be fair, which is why I can't and won't let this argument go.

"Play the game in the style you want" or words to that effect mean very little when you want to Solo.

 

As Dasty also said: We don't agree on this. I'm okay with that, honestly. I just hope such disagreement doesn't see lowbie/midbie PvP suffer because of it. That would be sad, and a loss to the game overall whether you or I personally played that part of the game or not.

 

Cheers.

 

.

 

It was a very good post from Dasty, I agree with you on that.

I also agree that we do not have to agree and probably never will on this topic.

However I think the loss of PvP would be the best thing that could happen to this game, on this we disagree

[Neulwen]

Edited to add more things.

 

1. being able to display personal short duration buffs (like HoTs) on ops frames separately from and with larger icons than other buffs

 

2. after a disconnect, having our warzone spot reserved for at least a minute in order to re-enter

 

3. manual stronghold sorting in the stronghold panel

 

4. ability to change utilities in warzone spawn

 

5. more visible player icons on map when players are stacked

 

6. training dummy as deco

 

7. healer training dummy (that takes dmg, so absorbs also count)

 

8. better hook placements in certain stronholds (like manaan)

 

9. saved ability placements for each spec

 

10. companions summonable from the tradeskill window, and possibility to sort them there

 

11. possibility to set unit price when selling stacks of items in GTN

 

8. Let all hairstyles and cosmetics be available for characters of all genders

THIS!

(Well, except facial hair for females, I guess.)

 

Put indicator warnings when a romance is ending, starting or will be lost forever in original stories. For example, my first smuggler told drunk Corso to sleep it off because I was pretty put off by his advances but had no idea that would kill the romance forever. A warning on that would have been nice.

That would be good.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Neulwen

[StormForceDax]

As a solo player, you do not have any need whatsoever for BiS gear. There is a reason that the portions of the game that make active use of this gear get it faster. If you want to play an MMO by yourself, that's up to you but expect it to take longer than those of us who interact with the rest of the population and play the group portions of the game.

 

.

 

Than remove BiS gear altogether and adjust the game so its not needed. At the end of the day PvP'er are not the only ones buying the master datacron so saying you have to pay 2000cc is total rubbish as you claim during your endless posts in this thread. Saying lowbe PvP needs more incentive for PvP'er to do it, means that PvP players don't enjoy it and will only do it for rewards. Well then remove it if no one plays it for FUN. You interacting with other players also means nothing to me or most solo players and no I don't think you should get extra for doing it. You play the game you want to play as do we. I don't have any issue with PvP play only the PvP'ers like you who think they are so special you deserve extra for playing the game you want to play. You pay the same sub as us. The only valuable commodity you put into this game is the sub you pay (as said same as us) the money you spend on cartel stuff. (which over all is no more or less than solo players like myself do) so that just leaves as said the only other valuable commodity which is the time you actually spend playing. Which again is no more or less than anyone else.

 

You claim QuinlanSaathis is been selfish? well back at you, you are the one saying that your play style deserves more and extra, QuinlanSaathis is saying you should be rewarded the same. I agree with him and to me you are been the selfish one here. I don't have an issue with lowbe PvP getting Command Points or UC for WZ's at any level but if you get it as a under level 70 so should other play styles. BW should treat all there customers equally and no players should get better gear for doing there preferred type of game. In any case there already is a reward system in place for PvP'ers in ranked PvP which gives cosmetic rewards. Don't have a problem with that as it cosmetic.

 

As for

 

If you hate pvp so much, why do you even care what is rewarded? It’s not like people will stop playing pve stuff to just go pvp to get rewards and never play pve again? So it won’t affect you at all. I can’t see why you have a problem with incentivising people to play lowbie and mid tier pvp, which has died since they removed pvp Comms as you lvl’d up.

The only way they can breath life back in to the low-mid tier pvp corpse, is to make really good incentives to play it.

Adding UCs would be nearly the same as when we had pvp Comms, which actually worked to get people playing those brackets.

 

Funny that you ask why does he care what is rewarded in PvP? Well why do you care what is rewarded in PvE? If players are not doing lowbie PvP and require incentives than that to me says it all. If it requires incentives than it not worth doing. Most solo flashpoints are not worth doing for the reward vs time spent doing the flashpoint. I still do them because I still enjoy doing them.

 

 

Going back to topic at hand. Extra legacy tabs is what I would like as previously mention in an earlier post. One of the few things me and you Trixxie agree on. However BW there are a lot of good suggestions in this thread and hope some are considered and implemented. As for lowbie PvP, add what you like BW and think is apocopate, just be as fair to your solo players as well.

Edited June 3, 2018 by StormForceDax

[BRKMSN]

... so that just leaves as said the only other valuable commodity which is the time you actually spend playing. Which again is no more or less than anyone else.

Pardon the interruption ... I just wanted to point out that there is some value in how you play. You can't really argue that one style of play (PvE or PvP (or even RP)) is more valuable than the other, but participating regularly in group content is extremely beneficial to an MMO experience. Also, being, kind, friendly, or helpful promotes a positive community that benefits the player base. So how you play can, in fact, be more valuable than someone else. Of course, you still have every right to play how you choose so long as it's within the rules.

[QuinlanSaathis]

Pardon the interruption ... I just wanted to point out that there is some value in how you play. You can't really argue that one style of play (PvE or PvP (or even RP)) is more valuable than the other, but participating regularly in group content is extremely beneficial to an MMO experience. Also, being, kind, friendly, or helpful promotes a positive community that benefits the player base. So how you play can, in fact, be more valuable than someone else. Of course, you still have every right to play how you choose so long as it's within the rules.

 

You are not seriously suggesting that PvP'ers are Kind Friendly or Helpful are you?

With a small tiny group of exceptions the PvP'ers have proven to be the most toxic community in this game.

And no, you can't change my mind.

[PennyAnn]

If you don't want to start a fight then I suggest you stop insinuating that everything is now fair and even.....

Until Now, Solo'ers were the red headed step child we got nothing, no consideration for our game play style and complete ridicule from the so-called "hardcore" gamers.

 

We still have the longest road to grind and the worst progression model in the game to the point where it can take us 2x or 3x as long to get the first tier of gear that is pretty much guaranteed to other forms of play within a couple of weeks of hitting the relevant marks, most of us never see tier2 let alone 3 or 4 (is there a 4?)

So if you don't care about different parts of the game being rewarded why aren't you fighting for us as well?

 

I am fighting to keep my play style alive and if I have to advocate taking from PvP to do that then I will but what I actually said was "....if PvP gets it then PvE should get it as well"

 

This is the same basic argument of the Civil Rights movement.

(No I am not comparing the struggle for equal rights in America with this discussion over two game play styles so keep your hateful comments to yourself)

 

If you scale this argument up many 100's or 1000's of times it is the same core argument.

One group has been treated poorly and is well behind the other in progression

Yes it is better than what it was at the beginning but by no means is it fair or equal yet

In neither scenario is it acceptable to "Buff" the already privileged group unless the same is applied to the other

 

Widening the privilege gap in either of these scenarios is completely unacceptable and should never be allowed.

 

Why are you taking game design so personally? I just don't understand. Story loving folks (which by the way, includes me) got KotFE and KotET to the exclusion of almost everything else, but story players have been treated poorly?

 

Nobody said, "I know, let's screw over story fans and make it harder for them to gear!". In fact, with the Command System, the game design is finally saying the opposite. Things are finally going your way. And you are choosing to be unhappy about something else getting attention unless you get more attention, too. It's kinda unbelievable from my perspective.

 

And, I'm sorry, but this is turning into an entitled rant wrapped in a pity party, and I'm not going there. Everything IS fair and even. You have access to the same parts of the game as everyone else, and therefore the same access to the gear that comes from that part of the game as everyone else. That you choose not to play them is a choice, YOUR CHOICE, not some kind of punishment or inequality. This is a video game for crying out loud. One that used to be heavily designed around only rewarding the best gear to a very, very select population... and now rewards it to anybody who will spend the time to earn it. No access denied.

 

Besides, I already said (at least TWICE) that I didn't disagree to giving the same or like rewards to story content or PvE. Quit looking for enemies where there are none, man and lighten up a little. I say this for the sake of your happiness not to be mean, but really at the end of the day the choices you make are yours to make. But I do not see not wanting to play parts of the game on the same plane as being "treated poorly" or "punished" and find it a little over the top that it would be categorized so... in a video game where you have the freedom to play whatever content you want.

 

There is no "privilege gap". You have access to all the very same parts of the game and the very same rewards as everyone else. That you choose not to take that opportunity is on you, and totally acceptable in my eyes. You are free to choose whatever you like, but not free to complain about your choice like you are "punished" for it somehow. That's just ridiculous.

 

PS - I do not find it "hateful" to suggest that your over the top and completely un-analogous comparison of gearing in a video game and the Civil Rights Movement are purposefully over-dramatic. That's just pointing out the absurdity of pleading such a case, not being "hateful". As I said before, we just disagree. But that doesn't make either of us bad people necessarily... unless we choose to be. Hopefully we will choose better than that. Edited to add: Some of my very best friends in the world have loved me enough to pull me back from the edge when I got a little over the top, and that's really all I'm trying to do here, and hope that you will take it in that spirit rather than a hateful one.

 

I truly don't want to fight, and we so strongly disagree that further talk on this topic between you and me will indeed turn out badly. The more you take offense and act indignant toward my responses, causing me to be defensive of my opinion, the faster that's gonna happen. So let's just say: We don't agree, and that's okay.

 

Cheers.

 

.

Edited June 3, 2018 by PennyAnn

[QuinlanSaathis]

Why are you taking game design so personally? I just don't understand. Story loving folks (which by the way, includes me) got KotFE and KotET to the exclusion of almost everything else, but story players have been treated poorly?

 

Nobody said, "I know, let's screw over story fans and make it harder for them to gear!". In fact, with the Command System, the game design is finally saying the opposite. Things are finally going your way. And you are choosing to be unhappy about something else getting attention unless you get more attention, too. It's kinda unbelievable from my perspective.

 

And, I'm sorry, but this is turning into an entitled rant wrapped in a pity party, and I'm not going there. Everything IS fair and even. You have access to the same parts of the game as everyone else, and therefore the same access to the gear that comes from that part of the game as everyone else. That you choose not to play them is a choice, YOUR CHOICE, not some kind of punishment or inequality. This is a video game for crying out loud. One that used to be heavily designed around only rewarding the best gear to a very, very select population... and now rewards it to anybody who will spend the time to earn it. No access denied.

 

Besides, I already said (at least TWICE) that I didn't disagree to giving the same or like rewards to story content or PvE. Quit looking for enemies where there are none, man and lighten up a little. I say this for the sake of your happiness not to be mean, but really at the end of the day the choices you make are yours to make. But I do not see not wanting to play parts of the game on the same plane as being "treated poorly" or "punished" and find it a little over the top that it would be categorized so... in a video game where you have the freedom to play whatever content you want.

 

There is no "privilege gap". You have access to all the very same parts of the game and the very same rewards as everyone else. That you choose not to take that opportunity is on you, and totally acceptable in my eyes. You are free to choose whatever you like, but not free to complain about your choice like you are "punished" for it somehow. That's just ridiculous.

 

PS - I do not find it "hateful" to suggest that your over the top and completely un-analogous comparison of gearing in a video game and the Civil Rights Movement are purposefully over-dramatic. That's just pointing out the absurdity of pleading such a case, not being "hateful". As I said before, we just disagree. But that doesn't make either of us bad people necessarily... unless we choose to be. Hopefully we will choose better than that. Edited to add: Some of my very best friends in the world have loved me enough to pull me back from the edge when I got a little over the top, and that's really all I'm trying to do here, and hope that you will take it in that spirit rather than a hateful one.

 

I truly don't want to fight, and we so strongly disagree that further talk on this topic between you and me will indeed turn out badly. The more you take offense and act indignant toward my responses, causing me to be defensive of my opinion, the faster that's gonna happen. So let's just say: We don't agree, and that's okay.

 

Cheers.

 

.

 

Yes it is choice

But I was promised by Bioware that I could play the way I wanted to without detriment, without disadvantage but my choice of play is disadvantaged.

 

You are correct on one thing thou it is pointless to continue this discussion.

I think its all been said and I will not agree with you on this.

Edited June 3, 2018 by QuinlanSaathis

[IoNonSoEVero]

1 - If you are queueing, you are not playing solo... you are playing with other people.

2 - Item Rating 242 is not "BiS".

3 - I never said that BiS gear was just intended for PvP and nothing else. It is also used by the Nightmare capable raiding community (of which I used to be a part, up until about the middle of 4.0). So I'm pretty aware of where BiS gear is required and where it is not. You said "solo", meaning that you were playing by yourself (perhaps with a companion). There is nothing that you can play completely by yourself or with just a companion that requires BiS gear. If you are queueing to play with other players, that is not solo.

 

I am not trying to "bash" you or any other solo player. I think I am just not understanding what you mean when you say "Solo". Grouping with others is not solo play. And those who group for "lowbie flashpoints and uprisings, or group up for heroics, don't get UCs" - but they also do not need them for those activities. However they do get them in the Command Crates that they earn from doing those activities... so that's not entirely accurate, but I think I know what you meant. [Edited to add: Though if you posted in a thread that people should be rewarded with UCs for doing those activities, particularly if they were struggling to maintain activity, I'm pretty sure I'd agree with you, too. But, I cannot determine what activities reward UCs and don't, I just support more encouragement for playing all parts of the game.]

 

You seem awfully bitter about PvP, so I'm sorry if something I said tripped your trigger. I merely agree that lowbie PvP is an important part of the game and should be encouraged by whatever reasonable means necessary to keep it going. We obviously disagree about what is "reasonable". I don't consider any one group of players more "special" than the rest, but obviously we don't agree about that either.

 

You are also lumping me into a category that I don't really belong. Honestly, I don't even play this game much anymore and my sub will be expiring here soon. But when I did actively play this game, I played all parts of it - Raiding, PvP, and yes... STORY. I have 84 level 70 characters on Satele Shan server, and 80% or so of them were played through their entire class story. I'm not really a "solo" player, but I don't play MMOs to play alone, I play single player games for that. But that doesn't mean there isn't room for both types of people in SWTOR, in my opinion.

 

I feel that a small amount of UCs would not be any more unreasonable than the old PvP gearing system used to be. In case you weren't aware (dunno if you participate in PvP at all but I'm guessing no): You used to be able to get tokens that you could use to gear head to toe in PvP once you reached level 65 or 70 (if you did enough lowbie PvP, and that's what made it reasonable to me - it wasn't free, you had to queue up and participate in warzone matches). It was that way for years. No one from the "solo" player community ever complained about it then, so I'm not sure why it would be different now. I guess the difference is now that the gear pool is the same for both, more people are paying attention to how to get it.

 

But just because I agree with the notion doesn't mean I'm trying to "bash" on anybody. There are pretty clear gear requirements for certain parts of the game, and that's not an insult, it's just a fact.

 

Sorry if what I said rubbed you the wrong way. It wasn't intended to do so, but rather to point out that shooting down one part of the player base never works out well for anyone in the end, and certain parts of the game need more encouragement to remain viable than others. I don't have a problem with that, but we can agree to disagree here if that's necessary.

 

.

 

Understood, and appreciated, because what you said did rub me the wrong way. There should be a place for every play style in the game, and the battles between them don't help anyone.

 

But in this case I do feel that it's asking too much to ask for one play style to get CXP and UCs before L 70 when the others don't.

 

1. As I said repeatedly, this affects more than solo players. There are plenty of PvEers who do group for things, and they won't touch PvP with a ten foot pole. They, in your words. "interact with others in the community" and they still don't earn UCs at the accelerated rate of PvPers.

 

2. I never said it was. I was simply pointing out that there are gear requirements for PvErs in some areas.

 

3. Yes, once again, you DO need gear in the 240s to do the latest flashpoints, even solo, without dying every few feet. The bosses for the SOLO versions of the flashpoints, even nerfed, have HP in the 1 million - 500K range and some very damaging attacks. Going through the last three flashpoints in gear that isn't at least 240s is pointless.

 

My point in mentioning the other playstyles is that you made a point of saying that others who "interact with the community" earn UCs faster. But they don't. The only group activity that earns UCs at an accelerated rate is PvP. Not Ops, not flashpoints. And in those play styles you don't get stuff just for showing up and losing.

 

Nobody said the game has to be fair but there's a limit. If they offer rewards for lowbie PvP - and I have no issue with them increasing what is given, offering more XP or decos or whatever -- it should be in line with what people get for completing heroics and flashpoints before Level 70, like every other activity in the game.

 

Maybe if people aren't playing PvP it's because they don't like it. No, I don't play PvP. I find it upsetting and the very idea of sending a character into it makes me upset.

Edited June 3, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[sayNih]

I need speech bubbles, so Pubs in Xfaction Unranked know who is screaming obscenities at them. Just something help us all adjust. And perhaps some /emotes enabled in instanced PvP:

 

/akkfood...........summons Akkdogs who attack under-performing teammates

/grouphug........Sage class emote

/obscenity.........random nontranslateable insult

/flame...............yells at teammate until they cry

/war..................flag everyone for WorldPvP: "This means WAAA!"

/glowend..........show which end goes in sporting competitor's body

/ignore2............swaps target to opposing team

/pve..................marks teammate as hopeless

/wayofwarrior....summons creepy Sith ghost: "All pubs must die!"

[PennyAnn]

But in this case I do feel that it's asking too much to ask for one play style to get CXP and UCs before L 70 when the others don't.

 

I would be fine if they wanted to reward them for PvE activities before level 70 as well. No issue with that if it is important to keep it more "balanced". There used to be an incentive to play lowbie PvP because you could earn commendations toward gear at max level. Now there is.... nothing. Going back to the way lowbie PvP used to be incentivized before 5.0 made sense to me. And, there's no reason it couldn't be made to incentivize other areas of low level play in the game too, if that is necessary. I'd rather see everyone get it than no one because of people crying foul (especially when not all of us agree it would be "foul play"). The most important thing to me is keeping all parts of the game viable, not just the ones I like. If the shoe was on the other foot with some PvE activity, I would be supportive of incentivizing that as well.

 

.

Edited June 3, 2018 by PennyAnn

[IoNonSoEVero]

I would be fine if they wanted to reward them for PvE activities before level 70 as well. No issue with that if it is important to keep it more "balanced". There used to be an incentive to play lowbie PvP because you could earn commendations toward gear at max level. Now there is.... nothing. Going back to the way lowbie PvP used to be incentivized before 5.0 made sense to me. And, there's no reason it couldn't be made to incentivize other areas of low level play in the game too, if that is necessary. I'd rather see everyone get it than no one because of people crying foul (especially when not all of us agree it would be "foul play"). The most important thing to me is keeping all parts of the game viable, not just the ones I like. If the shoe was on the other foot with some PvE activity, I would be supportive of incentivizing that as well.

 

.

 

*If* they awarded it for both PvE and PvP activities at lower level, I'd be fine with it too. I'm just not okay with it being offered for PvP only. I feel that's elevating one part of the game above the others, and I don't think that should be done.

 

As someone else mentioned, it was before my time in the game, but the gear incentives that used to be offered in PvP were for gear that was for PvP play only. Now that there's universal gear that everyone needs, it's different.

[kodrac]

*If* they awarded it for both PvE and PvP activities at lower level, I'd be fine with it too. I'm just not okay with it being offered for PvP only. I feel that's elevating one part of the game above the others, and I don't think that should be done.

 

As someone else mentioned, it was before my time in the game, but the gear incentives that used to be offered in PvP were for gear that was for PvP play only. Now that there's universal gear that everyone needs, it's different.

 

Why does it matter? if you never touch PvP then how does it affect you or your ability to play the game in any way? Just comes off as petty jealousy.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Pardon the interruption ... I just wanted to point out that there is some value in how you play. You can't really argue that one style of play (PvE or PvP (or even RP)) is more valuable than the other, but participating regularly in group content is extremely beneficial to an MMO experience. Also, being, kind, friendly, or helpful promotes a positive community that benefits the player base. So how you play can, in fact, be more valuable than someone else. Of course, you still have every right to play how you choose so long as it's within the rules.

 

I agree with the bolded - being kind and treating others with courtesy goes a long way - but I would disagree that doing regular group content is extremely beneficial to every player. Some people are more extroverted than others. For me, even though I have a few friends I see from time to time in the game, doing group content or interacting with other players is about as pleasant as drinking battery acid. One of the reasons I started playing SWTOR in the first place was that there were PvE servers (ie, no ganking) and no requirements to group to advance in the game.

 

I would also posit that someone like me who is quietly doing their quests and just wants to be left alone, and contributes regularly to the game economy via my subscription dollars and GTN sales and purchases, is a heckuva lot more "valuable" than someone who is a toxic and abusive presence in group content or in their interactions with other players.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Why does it matter? if you never touch PvP then how does it affect you or your ability to play the game in any way? Just comes off as petty jealousy.

 

I am not interested in debating with you. Read the thread. /ignore

Edited June 3, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[kodrac]

I am not interested in debating with you. Read the thread. /ignore

 

LOL how typical of you. You won't answer that because it would undermine your argument. it doesn't affect you or your ability to play the game at all. You're just mad someone else can get a cookie before you. You're still going to get cookies too, it's a limitless supply even, but someone else got theirs before you so /pout. It's petty.

Edited June 3, 2018 by kodrac

[BRKMSN]

You are not seriously suggesting that PvP'ers are Kind Friendly or Helpful are you?

If you read what I wrote, I was just describing how play style adds value to a game in an MMO.

 

With a small tiny group of exceptions the PvP'ers have proven to be the most toxic community in this game

 

I don't agree with the generalization. In fact, I get a little tired of reading "all because of the PvPers," or, "all because of the PvEers." Toxic people are toxic regardless of their play-style and, while vocal, they don't represent the majority of players or group of players in any way whatsoever.

 

And no, you can't change my mind.

 

I'm so relieved to hear you say that. I have been trying to change minds here for 6 years and have been wondering why I still haven't earned the achievement <Changed One Player's Mind> to this day. I thought it was me, but it's you.

Edited June 3, 2018 by BRKMSN

[Suzsi]

As a solo player, you do not have any need whatsoever for BiS gear. There is a reason that the portions of the game that make active use of this gear get it faster. If you want to play an MMO by yourself, that's up to you but expect it to take longer than those of us who interact with the rest of the population and play the group portions of the game.

 

.

 

Solo players do need good gear these days to get through HM chapters.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Suzsi

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

If you don't want to start a fight then I suggest you stop insinuating that everything is now fair and even.....

Until Now, Solo'ers were the red headed step child we got nothing, no consideration for our game play style and complete ridicule from the so-called "hardcore" gamers.

 

 

 

Soloer's shouldn't have access to top rated BIS gear. They never ever did before. They have absolutely no need for it whatsoever and it changes nothing in their style of play. You are talking about storyplay, Heroic's and Dailies. All of which you can practically do without using anything other than basic attack.

 

The best gear in the game should be for those who do the hardest content in the game. No one wins a gold medal for mecocrity, they win it because they performed the best.

 

Some players in this game have become spoiled by 5.0.

Anyone who has played this game for any length of time before 5.0 can attest to the fact that it was literally impossible to get BIS gear without doing end game PVE group content. Even ranked PVPers couldn't get BIS gear [althought they could get Expertise BIS gear which if you used in PVE was notably inferior].

 

Even more so, between 1.0 and 3.0 there was an even stricter manner of getting BIS gear and that was only in NiM level Operations. If you didn't do NiM level operations you could not ever get BIS gear. There was an exception to that very briefly when they did the "battle bags" gearing which was very similar to what it was between 5.0 and 5.2, being that you could only get the high end gear from random RNG just like Command Crates now.

 

Gearing has never been eaiser than it is now. . You have three ways of getting it [Command Crates which fall from the sky], as Token drops in Operations and by UCs obtained doing WZs and from destroying crap of command crates].

 

No one who can complete content only using basic attack should have access to the best gear in the game. The fact is, you already do with command crates, and you shouldn't even be able to 248 gear from them at all.

 

Go play DDO, STO, WOW, LOTRO, or pretty much any other noteworthy MMO and see if solo players who do not do hard game content have full access to the best gear in the game without doing harder end game [usually group] content. They don't.

 

Even if you had full 248 BIS gear you would not virtually no difference in your performance doing solo content because you already are massively over powered for any challange you could face to say nothing of the fact you have a companion who literally is more powerful than you are helping you [heals, tank, dps]. If you are having difficultly doing any solo content, it's not because of gear or class or your weapon or your playstyle, it's because you are not even remotely competant in playing your class/spec and that's not an insult. We all start off that way. If after a decent amount of time you are still finding it dillficult even with greater experience, that's on you. BIS gear won't save you, you will still be failing.

 

Here's what you want, you want a full-time job salary working part-time. You don't want to earn it, you want it handed to you.

 

If not having BIS gear in any way, shape, or form inhibited your ability to play your chosen style of content [in this case solo content] you would have a grievance. You can take every single peice of gear off and run around completely naked except for a weapon equppied and still complete any normal mode solo content providing you had even a average amount of understanding of your class, skills, rotation and passive abilities. It is not at all difficult to obtain that rudimentary understand of a class and spec.

 

Why would anyone go through all the very real work, trouble, practice, study, experience, and most notably time investment necessary to complete the most difficult content the game has if there was absolutely no reward for doing so?

 

You want to be a novice skier yet have as much right to winning the Gold at the Olympics as the best most hardly trained and dedicated skiers in the world.

 

You have no reason or right to that level of gear and you do not need it in the slightest. Not having it does effect your game experience at all.

 

You have the right to play your game any way you like. You don't have the right to earn rewards that everyone else has to earn through honest work, time, skill and dedication. Yes, it's a game, but people play games to win and winning means someone else has to lose so competition IS a natural part of games.

 

You have the same exact access to BIS gear as everyone else, earning it is no harder for you than it is for anyone else, you just don't want to have to earn it, you want it handed to you. Command Crates contents are not earning things, they are gambling. Sure, someone can win the lotto and make a ton of money without working. Same thing. Everyone else who doesn't win the lotto, they have to earn their living. There is no solo content you can't already do with ease with whatever gear you have already.

 

You are right about one thing, it isn't fair. It isn't fair that it should even be possible for you to get BIS gear from a random RNG roll than having to earn it the hard way.

Edited June 3, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx