AGAIN FOR THE DEVS: Pvp is dying due to unfairness re snipes, mercs and sorcs

[TrixxieTriss]

they pop the blue shield and are low, burst them down anyway - it only heals if its duration runs out before they die.

 

Same goes for Jugg if they pop ED and health is too low. You can burst through it if you are on the right class or there are two of you.

 

Honeslty, these days, 90% of people can’t recognise ED or Merc heal to full and keep hitting So most of the time I just try to burst through it if I’m not solo. I know those other fools are going to keep hitting them, so the faster you can get them down again the better.

[LordDaemon]

This was the greatest post of 2018. So much complaining and run-on sentences, I couldn't help but read it.

[Lhancelot]

Same goes for Jugg if they pop ED and health is too low. You can burst through it if you are on the right class or there are two of you.

 

Honeslty, these days, 90% of people can’t recognise ED or Merc heal to full and keep hitting So most of the time I just try to burst through it if I’m not solo. I know those other fools are going to keep hitting them, so the faster you can get them down again the better.

 

Exactly this.

 

That is why it's rarely "easy" to kill classes that have good dcds. In regs.

 

I have no issues with juggs even if I personally do have trouble killing them. In regs. I view it more as my average gameplay than them being OP'd so I never would ask for a nerf.

 

That being said, I also will roll my eyes when people say juggs are easy to kill. Personally that's not been my experience. In regs.

 

Sure, in ranked you can melt them but that's because you usually are running with dps that know how to do dps. In regs, mercs and juggs are rarely easy to kill. Which is fine. I don't mind them having survivability in regs, I just think it's disingenuous to pretend they are easy to kill. In regs.

 

Hopefully that clarifies my stance on juggs and mercs for that matter for those who got defensive that I dared say juggs are not easy to kill.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Lhancelot

[KendraP]

Lhance my friend, we agree on many things. But mercs and juggies are barely even in the same universe. Juggies have 1 now heal to full (from 5.0 to 5.9 it wasnt even that) and no reliable means of antifocus or disengage. I would trade my FD/ED for a maras toolkit on my dps in a second.

 

Juggies can be awesome 1v1 maybe or if left alone to smash away. The ones that are hard to focus down are tanks. I just did a match as a dps for the first time since 5.9 yesterday. The fix to FD did help... slightly.

 

I dont want to sound like a jerk, but snipers are the perfect dps juggie counter. I hate snipers when I go dps, because the mobility is low compared to Mara or even sin, a good sniper will kill a dps juggie before the juggie even gets in range.

 

Note: I do not want increased mobility. Juggie is supposed to be a slow class. But we do need some form of "get off me" under focus. I am also a tank normally so maybe I just spend more time being under focus when I go dps.

[Lhancelot]

Lhance my friend, we agree on many things. But mercs and juggies are barely even in the same universe. Juggies have 1 now heal to full (from 5.0 to 5.9 it wasnt even that) and no reliable means of antifocus or disengage. I would trade my FD/ED for a maras toolkit on my dps in a second.

 

Juggies can be awesome 1v1 maybe or if left alone to smash away. The ones that are hard to focus down are tanks. I just did a match as a dps for the first time since 5.9 yesterday. The fix to FD did help... slightly.

 

I dont want to sound like a jerk, but snipers are the perfect dps juggie counter. I hate snipers when I go dps, because the mobility is low compared to Mara or even sin, a good sniper will kill a dps juggie before the juggie even gets in range.

 

Note: I do not want increased mobility. Juggie is supposed to be a slow class. But we do need some form of "get off me" under focus. I am also a tank normally so maybe I just spend more time being under focus when I go dps.

 

I just remember nightmares during 3.0 up to 5.0 when my merc got wrecked to no end by juggs and marauders, and juggs were unstoppable.

 

By 5.0, I shortly stopped playing my merc, the CXP sucked and I didn't like how suddenly one of my favorite classes (merc) got buffed too well.

 

This being said, do you feel juggs are actually easy to kill?

 

Even now, I never fight juggs and think to myself, "wow that jugg was a piece of cake to kill!" They seem to be very durable. I guess it's a skill thing, I personally don't find juggs easy to kill.

 

I will say juggs don't strike fear into me but neither do mercs. I find good sins and marauders more scary and when they focus me I die a lot.

[KendraP]

I just remember nightmares during 3.0 up to 5.0 when my merc got wrecked to no end by juggs and marauders, and juggs were unstoppable.

 

By 5.0, I shortly stopped playing my merc, the CXP sucked and I didn't like how suddenly one of my favorite classes (merc) got buffed too well.

 

This being said, do you feel juggs are actually easy to kill?

 

Even now, I never fight juggs and think to myself, "wow that jugg was a piece of cake to kill!" They seem to be very durable. I guess it's a skill thing, I personally don't find juggs easy to kill.

 

I will say juggs don't strike fear into me but neither do mercs. I find good sins and marauders more scary and when they focus me I die a lot.

 

Under any kind of focus yes. There are two squsiher classes overall- PT and sorc. We have ward, reflect, FD, and enure. Enure is a practical joke unless you have a good and freecasting healer. Reflect is wonderful but not nearly the god button a mercs reflect is, and reflects only force, ranged, and tech direct target damage. Maras can largely ignore it (indeed most melee), and I find myself shooting rsnged in the face a lot because they generally ignore it too. Ward is awesome but long CD and FD is not only easy to work around if you pay attention but if you have focus on the juggie you can largely burn through it.

 

I've been pvping since 3 0, but only done dps since 5.0, so I never got to experience the golden day of dps juggies. Ever since I've been playing them, my primary purpose was serving as the free kill for maras, snipers, and mercs.

 

I also generally tank, so again, it's perfectly feasible that much of my opinion comes from being focused constantly because they expect the guardian from my guild to be tanking.

[TrixxieTriss]

Lhance my friend, we agree on many things. But mercs and juggies are barely even in the same universe. Juggies have 1 now heal to full (from 5.0 to 5.9 it wasnt even that) and no reliable means of antifocus or disengage. I would trade my FD/ED for a maras toolkit on my dps in a second.

 

Juggies can be awesome 1v1 maybe or if left alone to smash away. The ones that are hard to focus down are tanks. I just did a match as a dps for the first time since 5.9 yesterday. The fix to FD did help... slightly.

 

I dont want to sound like a jerk, but snipers are the perfect dps juggie counter. I hate snipers when I go dps, because the mobility is low compared to Mara or even sin, a good sniper will kill a dps juggie before the juggie even gets in range.

 

Note: I do not want increased mobility. Juggie is supposed to be a slow class. But we do need some form of "get off me" under focus. I am also a tank normally so maybe I just spend more time being under focus when I go dps.

 

Snipers will make you their B*tch if they focus you on your Jugg, especially if they get you in the open, then you’re toast,

 

But if you can get close to the sniper to start with and get them in a tight location where you can’t get blown very far away and they have trouble reestablishing distance, then they are toast.

[Aeneas_Falco]

Exactly this.

 

That is why it's rarely "easy" to kill classes that have good dcds. In regs.

 

I have no issues with juggs even if I personally do have trouble killing them. In regs. I view it more as my average gameplay than them being OP'd so I never would ask for a nerf.

 

That being said, I also will roll my eyes when people say juggs are easy to kill. Personally that's not been my experience. In regs.

 

Sure, in ranked you can melt them but that's because you usually are running with dps that know how to do dps. In regs, mercs and juggs are rarely easy to kill. Which is fine. I don't mind them having survivability in regs, I just think it's disingenuous to pretend they are easy to kill. In regs.

 

Hopefully that clarifies my stance on juggs and mercs for that matter for those who got defensive that I dared say juggs are not easy to kill.

 

The real weakness of Jugg DPS is that it has less tools to last long while under focus than some other DPS specs, like say for example Mercs or Snipers. That is more of an issue with Ranked however than Regs. During Regs matches, outside of maybe arenas, it isn't going to be common for a Jugg DPS to be drawing the lion's share of the focus. Healers usually draw first focus in Regs.

 

Jugg DPS is more than viable outside of focus and can hold it's own in 1 vs 1 when played well.

[Lhancelot]

The real weakness of Jugg DPS is that it has less tools to last long while under focus than some other DPS specs, like say for example Mercs or Snipers. That is more of an issue with Ranked however than Regs. During Regs matches, outside of maybe arenas, it isn't going to be common for a Jugg DPS to be drawing the lion's share of the focus. Healers usually draw first focus in Regs.

 

Jugg DPS is more than viable outside of focus and can hold it's own in 1 vs 1 when played well.

 

That's my experience with them. I do not see them as easy kills in regs unless they are just awful.

[KendraP]

That's my experience with them. I do not see them as easy kills in regs unless they are just awful.

 

Even I said it's a focus issue. Snipers are the bane of my existence though. You should hate maras far more than juggies as a sniper.

 

Again, everything a rage juggie does - a fury mara does better.

Vigi it's a different competition as vigi is undoubtedly burstier than annhi and more survivable than rage. I still say you're better off with a sent personally.

 

Note a big difference: sents have a disengage. Guardians dont.

And please go off on the nonsense about self healing. I'd sell FD for half of what a mara gets.

[Lhancelot]

Even I said it's a focus issue. Snipers are the bane of my existence though. You should hate maras far more than juggies as a sniper.

 

Again, everything a rage juggie does - a fury mara does better.

Vigi it's a different competition as vigi is undoubtedly burstier than annhi and more survivable than rage. I still say you're better off with a sent personally.

 

Note a big difference: sents have a disengage. Guardians dont.

And please go off on the nonsense about self healing. I'd sell FD for half of what a mara gets.

 

I actually hate sins more than anything. Good sins seem to bypass my defenses and eat me up. I usually can see mara or juggs coming, so have some preparation for them, but sins are wicked when played well.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Lhancelot

[KendraP]

I actually hate sins more than anything. Good sins seem to bypass my defenses and eat me up. I usually can see mara or juggs coming, so have some preparation for them, but sins are wicked when played well.

 

Eh maras are still bigger pains than sins, though it does help my point because... sins have the best disengage in the game along with operatives- stealth out. Also the DR on force speed thing is pretty, let's say better than reflect and oh they have one of those now too.

 

No I'm not bitter about everyone getting my signature ability... not at all XD

Edited May 16, 2018 by KendraP

[TrixxieTriss]

The real weakness of Jugg DPS is that it has less tools to last long while under focus than some other DPS specs, like say for example Mercs or Snipers. That is more of an issue with Ranked however than Regs. During Regs matches, outside of maybe arenas, it isn't going to be common for a Jugg DPS to be drawing the lion's share of the focus. Healers usually draw first focus in Regs.

 

Jugg DPS is more than viable outside of focus and can hold it's own in 1 vs 1 when played well.

 

This is fairly accurate. If you put a Jugg in a 1v1 situation and they have their DCDs ready, they won’t die that easily.

It’s also relative to what class they are in a 1v1 with.

 

The only class I have an issue with in 1v1 on my Jugg is Operatives and I’ve explain why before. They may not always be able to kill me, but the 1v1 can end in them disengaging. Only a dumb operative will push the fight if they don’t have the DCD advantage.

If it’s against a sniper and there is LoS about and the Jugg can get close. In those cases a Jugg can win. Snipers aren’t that hard to kill if you can get your back to a wall and they can’t blow you away.

Vs Merc is always fun to see who will pop their heal to full first and who is dumb enough to keep going through it. (I’ve had so many Mercs try to blast through it and not stop)

Vs Mara’s is fun because they are similar to Jugg.

Vs Sorc is frustrating if there is LoS, but certainly not impossible to kill unless they are a Sorc healer.

Vs Sin is fun because most are too bull headed to pull back and wait like Operatives often do, especially Sin tanks

Vs PTs are a pain because they can just stay out if range, you just need to be patient and you can get them.

Vs other Jugg is great to see who has the higher skill or to pit yourself against a different spec.

 

But as always, it comes down to player skill. I know if I’m up against a good player, then I need my “A” game because a Jugg isn’t as great as some of the other classes.

In objective regs, Jugg is great classes if they are played correctly and used to fulfill the needed role. If they are used to run all over the map, then they are usually dog meat if caught by a gank squad because they can’t disengage.

In Arena they often get focused first, even in reg Arena. In those situations you can really see how good the class is and they aren’t all that awesome in Arena.

[TrixxieTriss]

I actually hate sins more than anything. Good sins seem to bypass my defenses and eat me up. I usually can see mara or juggs coming, so have some preparation for them, but sins are wicked when played well.

 

That’s how I feel about Operatives

[TrixxieTriss]

Even I said it's a focus issue. Snipers are the bane of my existence though. You should hate maras far more than juggies as a sniper.

 

Again, everything a rage juggie does - a fury mara does better.

Vigi it's a different competition as vigi is undoubtedly burstier than annhi and more survivable than rage. I still say you're better off with a sent personally.

 

Note a big difference: sents have a disengage. Guardians dont.

And please go off on the nonsense about self healing. I'd sell FD for half of what a mara gets.

 

Fury Mara’s are a Snipers natural nemesis.

 

I started playing my sniper again a week ago and I can’t believe how many Fury Mara’s don’t push to kill me. They get close to winning and I’ve gone through all my DCDs and then they disengage when I’m a sitting target.

My wife was watching me yesterday and couldn’t believe this one Mara who had pushed me really hard and then basically gave up and let me off the hook. She burst out laughing when I let out a sigh of relief as the Mara disengaged and then I started to laugh too... I then had time to run through healing buff and I chased the Mara down and killed them. It was a very satisfying kill

[BadHoneyBadger]

Blah Blah and More Blah Blah lol If I am Trolling it is only for the intellectual answers which so for you have given me none of.

 

To be honest calling veteran players dumb because they are trying to explain why you are wrong does not make you look all that smart either. I'm a good PVP'er but there are players, regardless of what spec or class that I am, can 1v1 me. I main a PT which is the probably at the bottom of the totem in PVP but I make up for it with my knowledge of the class. I've also played all the other class and this has helped me learn how to counter them in PVP. To be honest you really have to research other class to be really good in PVP, read their guides on Dulfy and the class forums on here. You also have to be a team player and not that guy who chases a sorc that is DoTing you to death to get you 1v1. For example PT's (in my opinion) are the best non stealth node guards because even while CC'd we can interrupt with Shoulder Cannon. I hate guarding but I do it to win the match and I call instead of trying to get a solo kill.

Just a side note constantly belittling other players is a good way to get reported and suspended from the forums. If you disagree that's fine but be respectful in your response.

Edited May 17, 2018 by BadHoneyBadger

[Heimsventus]

Bump. This thread needs to be bumped up to the top every so often as this stuff is good lol.

[Gyronamics]

Vs Merc is always fun to see who will pop their heal to full first and who is dumb enough to keep going through it. (I’ve had so many Mercs try to blast through it and not stop)

 

Hmm?

 

Jugg using Enraged Defence + Through Power insists that you pay a significant cost to deal with it. That is what all strong DCDs do and this one lasts almost 11GCD (unless you have zero alacrity).

 

Or a merc can default attack the Jugg 2-3 times (2-3GCD) and without giving the Jugg a free pass and 15s off all their CD they're back to doing damage that sticks because all the 12 stacks have evaporated into massive wasted overhealing instead of the perfect scenario of slowly soaking hits and scaring attackers for 15s.

 

A merc can pay that cost more easily than some because of a very high #hit default attack and having plenty of endurance themselves for extended fights.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Gyronamics

[Akevv]

Most of us that do the PvP rounds have equivalent characters, or roles on the opposite faction. They are mirrors. There are slight differences, for about 2 abilities and the sniper has a rifle instead of the gunslinger's pistols, whatever. The operatives seem like they're going berserk with all of the stabby nonsense, but sooner or later, everyone white bars.

 

Relax, watch how the match unfolds, how people do their thing. If someone good wipes the floor with you, really pay attention to what they're doing. You will learn something. For starters, keep moving, and use your abilities, all of them. If your character has taunts, but you're dps and don't have them on your toolbar, you're doing it wrong, for instance. Most of all, play for fun. Its a -lot- less stressful.

[TrixxieTriss]

Hmm?

 

Jugg using Enraged Defence + Through Power insists that you pay a significant cost to deal with it. That is what all strong DCDs do and this one lasts almost 11GCD (unless you have zero alacrity).

 

Or a merc can default attack the Jugg 2-3 times (2-3GCD) and without giving the Jugg a free pass and 15s off all their CD they're back to doing damage that sticks because all the 12 stacks have evaporated into massive wasted overhealing instead of the perfect scenario of slowly soaking hits and scaring attackers for 15s.

 

A merc can pay that cost more easily than some because of a very high #hit default attack and having plenty of endurance themselves for extended fights.

 

I still win more encounters with Mercs than I lose. Most don’t know how to use their DCDs and when to use them. I also try to LoS a Merc is he pops his and I run with 7.2% alacrity.

Edited May 21, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Relax, watch how the match unfolds, how people do their thing. If someone good wipes the floor with you, really pay attention to what they're doing.

 

Oh, so much this ^^^ . The best advice I’ve seen all week.

 

That’s how most of us got good. By playing better people who showed us how to do it. Watch them and learn when they wipe the floor with you, don’t cry foul or QQ about classes being OP. Even when classes are OP, you can still learn to deal with them if you watch and learn some new tatctics. I’ve been saying that everytime a new class hits FOTM status or people QQ when the meta changes. Too may of us are rigid in our approach to fighting specific classes with our mains. If we could global a class or beat a class before a meta change, we expect to always be able to do that.

I’m yet to find a class I can’t kearn to deal with in an objective environment. Arena is different because it’s full on 4v1 focus as the match starts and certain classes deal with that pressure better. But in objective pvp, you should be able to learn some tactics to deal with all classes.

[cool-dude]

Tldr.

[lordoftransform]

This is the greatest troll ever or the saltiest attempt at an FOTM ever, either way, theres enough aids to one shot Izax here

[Totemdancer]

This is the greatest troll ever or the saltiest attempt at an FOTM ever, either way, theres enough aids to one shot Izax here

 

So why necro it?

[Sith-Viscera]

I can get behind the Mercs/Snipers being ubered up to much Need to be taken down a peg or 2 or 3, but I dont agree with Maras/Sorcs/Operatives being that. They need a little bump up not much, just a tad.