Unranked warzones have turned into a nightmare because of ignorant players

[Lualei]

The last 1-2 months warzones have turned so bad that it's almost giving me gray haIr.

 

It seems like every player who had a clue about playing pvp either left for ranked..or maybe left pvp completely?

 

In almost every single unranked warzone you now have players who

 

• don't help when you shout incoming
  
• don't want to defend our turetts
  
• don't read chat
  
• don't call inc
  

 

So after a day it's like 8-9/10 matches lost and I'm pretty frustrated - how do the rest of you handle the state of warzones atm??

Edited April 29, 2018 by Lualei

[Wimbleton]

Yeah, no-SON OF A B@&$-one defends me.

[Gyronamics]

The last 1-2 months warzones have turned so bad that it's almost giving me gray haIr.

 

It seems like every player who had a clue about playing pvp either left for ranked..or maybe left pvp completely?

 

In almost every single unranked warzone you now have players who

 

• don't help when you shout incoming
  
• don't want to defend our turetts
  
• don't read chat
  
• don't call inc
  

 

So after a day it's like 8-9/10 matches lost and I'm pretty frustrated - how do the rest of you handle the state of warzones atm??

 

Max out the medal count then do whatever.

 

What's the point of complaining about random teams in the most basic level of pvp.

[TrixxieTriss]

The last 1-2 months warzones have turned so bad that it's almost giving me gray haIr.

 

It seems like every player who had a clue about playing pvp either left for ranked..or maybe left pvp completely?

 

In almost every single unranked warzone you now have players who

 

• don't help when you shout incoming
  
• don't want to defend our turetts
  
• don't read chat
  
• don't call inc
  

 

So after a day it's like 8-9/10 matches lost and I'm pretty frustrated - how do the rest of you handle the state of warzones atm??

 

It sucks. It has been bad for about 9 months and it’s just getting worse every time Bioware add some incentive for non pvpers to play.

Normally that would be good, but the incentives are not there to make people try. They should have to try as well. You also have a majority of people these days can’t even 1v1 with someone, so they all run around in a big gank group playing follow the leader. Which means none of them stay to guard, they are like a flock or birds or sheep running and not using their brains.

Plus, if there aren’t 7 of them to 7v1 people, they all die or 7 chase 1-2 players all over the map for the entirety of the match. God forbid they have to guard and defend in a 1v1 or 1v2 situation.

 

I partly blame the Arena death match mentality and actual pvp people who come into objective pvp and teach the newer or inexperienced people bad habits and tell everyone it’s regs, so it doesn’t matter. This has been happening for a long while and they have been passing on this mentality to reg only players. Now those reg only players are passing it on to the newer pvp guys. It’s a slippery slop, the more noobs that pass on this bad mentality and lead by poor example, the more noobs that are created. It’s why it’s noob central.

 

Add to the fact that people don’t learn to pvp in lowbies and Mids anymore and you have a recipe for “crap soup” at lvl 70. If they played pvp as they lvld up like we did in the old days, people would be willing to teach them because it’s lowbies and Mids. When they get to lvl 70 there is some expectation they have half an idea how to play it because lvl 70 is end game pvp for most people.

The blame for the lack of participation in lowbies and Mids falls squarely on a Bioware’s shoulders because they’ve taken away any incetivento play lower tiered content, especially pvp. All they want is for people to rush to lvl 70 to grind gear. It’s why the rest of the game is so stupidly easy as you lvl.

(Here is a link to a thread about incentivisng lowbie and Mids that we have been trying to get Bioware to take notice and do something. Please post if you think it will help so we can keep it on the front page of the gen section - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=946356)

 

Which leads to another reason as to why they are all crap in lvl 70 pvp and can’t kill anything unless they are in a group. Because the rest of the game is stupidly easy, none of them learn their classes properly. It’s a shame we don’t have more of the experienced objective players still in the game so we are the majority and not the minority. Then those new guys would have to grind against us and learn the hard way, like most of us did against the pvp gods of old in those first to 6-12 months of the game. Most people only get better playering people who are much better than they are. My pvp guild taught me a lot and really helped improve my skills. There aren’t any proper pvp guilds left to do that and the quality of the remaining pvp guilds are terrible. They may have a few good players in them, but that’s all.

 

Anyway, here are a couple of ways to change the situation.

1. Requeue if you find you are stuck in a rotation with the same fools every match. Leaving early will often let you join a different lot of people and brake the rotation. If there are a lot of these idiots around, you may have to do it a few times.

2. Have a mirror Alt for each faction, ie, Jugg and Guardian. When you find that all the idiots on one faction (not necessarily bad at combat, just idiots who can’t use their brains), switch faction.

3. Concentrate on your own game play and find a personal target or achievement you want in the match. When I can see the game is a loss before we even leave the spawn point (because it’s the same idiots), I will make it my mission to go the opposite way to the gank squad and take on as many of their guys as possible in the hope I’ll get as many solo kills as possible. Lately the combat proficiency is so bad on both teams, that I’m finding myself 1v2-3 people and getting 2 solo kills before my stupid gank team rocks up to spoil my fun.

4. Have alts on 2 servers and be prepared to switch to see if you can get better games on the other server.

5. Form a premade with any random competent player(s) you come across in any match. They don’t have to be great pvpers, just people with a similar mind set of how to play objective pvp properly. If you are good enough, you can carry them if they aren’t as good as you and they may actually learn from you at the same time,

6. Try communicating before matches so you can see if anyone else has any brains.

7. Start drinking while you are playing so you don’t care as much (as long as you’re a happy drunk and not violent one)

8. Eat chocolate, it’s a natural anti depressant

Edited April 30, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

What's the point of complaining about random teams in the most basic level of pvp.

 

1. Not everyone is cut out for ranked

2. Just because someone isn’t cut out for ranked, doesn’t mean they are as crap as the majority of people in regs

3. Not everyone likes death match pvp, some prefer objective pvp and strategy. Unfortunately Bioware have remove objective ranked and regs is the only outlet for objective pvp.

4. Lvl 70 regs isn’t the most basic lvl of pvp, it’s supposed to be end game objective pvp for the masses.

5. There is some expectation at lvl 70 that people have a clue how to play pvp

6. Lowbies is the most basic lvl of pvp, followed by Mids. This is where they should be learning, not at lvl 70. At these lvls people don’t care as much and will teach people.

7. It’s attitudes like yours that make these fools believe they shouldn’t try.

8. Ranked is such a joke now that it may as well be regs, so with your way of thinking, complaining about any pvp is pointless, Ranked included

9. Your elitism is showing

[Banderal]

I might take a bit of heat for this if anyone bothers to read/reply... but a lot of what I just read here smacks of the kids picking at each other in the back seat of the car and saying to their parents "but he started it!".

 

Just because the other members of my team are playing selfishly, or don't know how to "properly" play, I don't think that means I should do the same. I like to keep trying to set the example, by not giving up, not going negative, etc. Yes, even if it seems futile. Much like a comeback from a hopeless situation, sometimes people surprise me and pick up on it and we start playing "right".

 

Not that I don't sometimes do the same things that others are advocating here. No one is perfect. But my ideal, and what I'd "preach" is to rise above it. Be the one who sets the example instead of joining in. If I find myself really getting disgusted with the way games are going, I quit out of SWTOR for a while.

[TacoClaw]

The last 1-2 months warzones have turned so bad that it's almost giving me gray haIr.

 

It seems like every player who had a clue about playing pvp either left for ranked..or maybe left pvp completely?

?

 

I'm going to agree with this.

 

People say it is the bad players ruining it, but for myself I don't really mind bad players as much as I mind the God like premades who just crush the pug groups. And I really don't want to play as a premade anymore. I prefer the challenge of playing against all odds than participating in a turkey shoot. I actually feel pretty bad for the premade gods. Last night the BuWo guild rained holly heck down on a pug I was part of. They were so well oiled and dominant. I imagine the hours of work put into it by the members and now they have to play pugs full of newbies to find a game. So sad.

 

For what it's worth, I find the matches better during the day during the weekdays. But at night and on the weekends if I win 1 out of 10 matches then I consider myself lucky. And usually it is a complete beat down. I treat is as a warm up and then leave.

 

I would say I'm about a six. So your point is right. I think to get from a six to a nine would take way to much research into all the classes and all the abilities and all the right moves at all the right times. I can't be bothered. I bet a lot of players feel the same way and when they realize what it will take to get to the next level they demur. If there were any kind of matchmaking where we 4-7s could play among ourselves I think it would be a lot of fun. But that is not going to happen, so yeah, we kind of disjoin from the pvp sphere, just as you suspect.

[Lualei]

"What's the point of complaining about random teams in the most basic level"

 

I do believe that everybody can learn something - whether it's unranked or ranked

 

My honest opinion about ranked is that it's too toxic for my liking. I've seen how players attack and blame each other

in general chat afterwards and what is said is outrageous. That kind of behaviour doesn't define "fun" for me.

[Lualei]

Thank you all for your good answers:). I also think it has to do with players farming for mats in ranked. So suddenly the pool of players in the unranked warzones shrunk even more. Another very poor decision by BW imo..

 

Anyways I might pick up the idea of making my own friends list of pvp players whom I enjoyed playing with. Perhaps I could get my fun back this way .

[Gyronamics]

1. Not everyone is cut out for ranked

2. Just because someone isn’t cut out for ranked, doesn’t mean they are as crap as the majority of people in regs

3. Not everyone likes death match pvp, some prefer objective pvp and strategy. Unfortunately Bioware have remove objective ranked and regs is the only outlet for objective pvp.

4. Lvl 70 regs isn’t the most basic lvl of pvp, it’s supposed to be end game objective pvp for the masses.

5. There is some expectation at lvl 70 that people have a clue how to play pvp

6. Lowbies is the most basic lvl of pvp, followed by Mids. This is where they should be learning, not at lvl 70. At these lvls people don’t care as much and will teach people.

7. It’s attitudes like yours that make these fools believe they shouldn’t try.

8. Ranked is such a joke now that it may as well be regs, so with your way of thinking, complaining about any pvp is pointless, Ranked included

9. Your elitism is showing

 

Well that's a joke list of weak complaints and ended with the biggest one.

 

I'm "elitist" but you don't want noobs in your reg game

[memerobot]

... you don't want noobs in your reg game

 

Well, the fact that they are noobs out of choice, yes, and not out of "natural lack of talent".

There is a reason to not want people that don't even try to get better.

It's not that they are bad at that class. They simply don't even put effort and yes, it is a thing that happens.

Example: I'm horrible as a Sorcerer and I've put quite the large amount of hours in practicing it yet still no results. I tried but a bit 'pointless' as it simply does not fit me. Now I see others that even with FOTM, they don't do sh*t anything to "get good" at it, which isn't hard, at least Arsenal Merc or Fury Mara.

 

Also, not defending. Just stating out what happens in game.

Edited April 30, 2018 by memerobot

[cybearr]

Here is an idea to bring pvp participation around and at the same time give bw feedback which warzones are hated/liked the most.

Let Us Pick the wz we want to go into in unranked. I cant *********** stand huttball or odessen, because hardly any tactics involved, huttball is about who has the fastest class, or which sorc knows how to pull best. if you have an operative that knows what to do, there they win. odessen with the randomness of the mods and spawning of areas its more luck than anything, plus again if you have an operative with a red mod on the enemy team, your carefully constructed point with a blue mod is bye-bye.

so if you guys at bioware like feedback so much, let us choose the warzone we want to play, (yes just like in WOW) bonus cxp and uc for random but to have the option to choose, still 3 days to go until update, at least try.

whats funny is that its not the first time i suggested this, and went totally ignored. not even spoken about.

but as the pvp is now, i can hardly *********** stand it, ppl dont give a flying one about coming in a wz with 220 gear, getting killed every 5 seconds because of it, and we all know bolster doesnt help if you are not even trying.

so to summarise

we need expertise back (i think it is coming back)

and we need selectable warzones.

thats all

not much

but you guys have to decide whats more important, to get everyone to do everything for the sake of the grind, or making each individual activity enjoyable enough to make ppl commit to them long term.

I am sick and tired of trying to carry most of the team, who dont listen (if i ask nicely or rudely doesnt matter), and dont care about objectives.

getting a bit fed up tbh. cant wait for december or whenever the new story comes out. because if anything pvp right now is making me less of a team player as i lose the will to live after 3 random matches with ppl who just there to be a dps monkey and watch their damage numbers climb. (tbh wanted to put a sexually fuelled word here but all in good time & place )

Cheerio

[ace_boogie]

This happened last night I went to go help our node (as healer) and of course the dps that bailed out (saved him from less than 10% health, because as merc he “don’t use heals.” What?!) ran off and left me to guard. He ran back and while they were getting wiped a guardian ran over to the node and I was about to get the solo, had him around 20% and here comes the merc from respawn to ruin it.

 

Now at this point I’m still not mad but I thought he got the clue. Of course he didn’t and ran off again... this time I say “come back so I can heal mid” and he says “I already ran too far”.

 

I say “oh you’d rather lose? I feel ya.” Half joking but hoping he or anyone would take the hint. But nope.

 

And he ran back mid and unsurprisingly they wiped again. And again. And again. Until we lost. While I babysat.

 

 

Stuff like that has always happened but lately people are just... aggressively stupid.

[Kyuuu]

this is what happens when BW forces people in WZ to get easy cxp and unassembled components, blame 5.0 for this wz was bad enough for thise happen now it just way worse

 

Most people wz now dont care about objectives and out right ignore it. alot people that do care and do call out and watch things if they get ignored or people with no brains running around, will either bail which is the norm, or will just afk some place. people will see this and the complain that ensue about that, but for some reason will ignore the calls.

 

IF wz had no OBJECTIVES and was out right death match on numbers of kills it wouldnt mater anymore cause that is what wz is at this point

Edited April 30, 2018 by Kyuuu

[Gyronamics]

this is what happens when BW forces people in WZ to get easy cxp and unassembled components, blame 5.0 for this wz was bad enough for thise happen now it just way worse

 

Really.

 

People complain about PVP population.

 

BW adds more reasons to do PVP, more people do PVP, more queues pop....

 

OMG BIOWARE NOW WE GOT THE WRONG KIND OF PEOPLE.

[TrixxieTriss]

Stuff like that has always happened but lately people are just... aggressively stupid.

You can’t fix stupid... in nature it would be addressed through Darwinism. In gaming it’s called noobism. But unlike Darwinism, natural selection doesn’t get rid of them

Edited May 1, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Really.

 

People complain about PVP population.

 

BW adds more reasons to do PVP, more people do PVP, more queues pop....

 

OMG BIOWARE NOW WE GOT THE WRONG KIND OF PEOPLE.

 

The idea is correct. It’s the execution of the idea that’s the probelem.

 

I love the idea of Bioware adding incentives for more people to pvp. But it’s been poorly thought out and it’s making things worse for the quality of pvp.

 

There is no incentive for these people to try to win or get better. The rewards should be largely different to winning or losing. But the only way you can make it work properly and still be fair to the wider pvp population, wether they are Imps or reps is to make it cross faction and add basic match making to games.

 

Without it being cross faction, you will have reps who lose match after match just because they have less good people to possibly queue with vs the larger amount of good people in amongst imperial noobs.

 

I think winning should give a big boost to rewards vs losing. But there needs to be balancing mechanism in place too so that it’s a lvl playing field. And I think Bioware are too lazy to do this, which is why we have this problem.

 

The easiest fix even though people will QQ about it is this -

 

*** NOTE, these ideas below are a package deal and cherry picking them would not help the bad play attitude ***

 

Section One.

1. Make all pvp cross faction

2. Add basic match making, ie, 2 healers in the queue, put one on each team.

3a. Possibly remove premades from standard reg matches. Either make a seperate queue and call it premades or have group ranked the only premade format.

3b. Or they could reduce the size limit of the premades to two people. Then with the basic match making in place, the queue can even out how many premades are on one team and not put them all on the same one.

4. Reduce the amount of CXP (or XP in sub lvl 70) and comms (credits) from losing

5. Increase by the same amount of CXP and comms (credits) for winning

6. Reduce the amount of conquest points for just participation

7. Increase the amount of conquest points for winning by double what they will be.

 

Section two

Some extra ideas to help improve the situation

1. Re-do the medal system so it corresponds better with who did the work to help the team. All maps are different and should have custom medals added on top of the standard ones that are also reworked, ie Hutt Ball should reward ball carriers, scorers and support runners much more than dps farming away from the ball,

2. Then add extra bonuses for each medal based on the rewards from my proposed changes in section one. That way, even if you tried really hard and were on the losing team, you could still possibly get more rewards than someone on the winning team who didn’t try,

 

Section three

1. Add incentives to get people to play lower tiered pvp and to learn there,

1a. These could be CXP or UCs that are locked to that character until they get to lvl 70 so that people can’t exploit the system for their usual lvl 70s.

2. Adding special quests or weeklies that reward bonus CXP or UCs in those lower brackets.

3. Add conquest rewards specifically for lower brackets

 

To sum up, adding all of those changes will make most people try harder because the rewards for trying are bigger.

It evens out the factions balance numbers and inequality. Which makes a match making system easier to implement.

It gets people to try pvp and learn in the brackets they should be doing that in (lowbie and Mids) and not at end game lvl.

It reduces the premade vs pug super stomp matches

It produces better players because they actually need to learn to get better if they want to win and maximise their rewards.

Over all it increases the quality and everyone’s enjoyment of pvp.

 

But these ideals are a package deal, once you start choosing which ones you like better than the others, it all falls apart. There needs to be an incentive system that has the carrot and stick approach, but it also needs to make people feel like they are rewarded for trying even if they lose. They also need to feel like it’s a fair system and they aren’t being penalised because of faction imbalance, premades or no matchmaking. Then by breathing life back into lowbies and Mids, it would allow people to practice and learn to get better in a much easier and slower format,

[Gelious]

Yesterday in Yavin I was at side node when I heard call for help from mid. My operative got there in stealth just in time to see 4 enemy players destroy our solo guard and cap the gun. And then they all run off to attack their side node which we had and where me and other players were early.

 

I couldn't believe my eyes. Surely they couldn't be THAT dumb? All FOUR of them? Most likely one of them was stealther iike me and was guarding now, right? I waited till last enemy player run out of sight and started capping. I fully expected to be interrupted by CC. Nothing happened. They all indeed left the node they just took.

 

To give you some context - we had all 3 nodes before they capped mid, so they absolutely coudn't afford to leave mid free.

[DavidAtkinson]

On darth malgus it is sadly getting worse and worse...

 

If you que as a premade you will most likely walk over most random teams and if you que as solo, you have a high chance of getting teamed up with undergeared, no stim hopeless noobs who don't have the slightest idea what they should be doing.. I don't blame them, it's not their fault. The developers allowed this to happen by giving tokens which basically turned a newbie to the into a full blown level 70. Now you can imagine how well he will perform in level 70 PVP.

 

You will feel that you have to be mid, grass and snow at the same time because your team is unable to function....

 

No calls, people instant die and after that they rage quit and enemy team has 3 heals and full blown 248 players who just cut down the headless chicken from yuor team. You and the other 1 or 2 players who might have clue will feel lost and hopeless and you are faced with a choice: to leave or not leave....

 

 

I think these are all good reasons to unsub and leave this game once and for all as it starting to become a complete idiocracy.

Edited May 1, 2018 by DavidAtkinson

[Lhancelot]

The game is older, and you longtime veterans who can play your characters with blindfolds on are running into true PVP noobs.

 

New noobs are no worse than noobs were in the past, the difference now is in the past you were a noob too.

 

This is more of a "get off my lawn" situation than anything. You guys sound like old people do when they talk about how music used to be awesome, and new music sucks. Stop being so bitter you old geezers!

[cybearr]

The game is older, and you longtime veterans who can play your characters with blindfolds on are running into true PVP noobs.

 

New noobs are no worse than noobs were in the past, the difference now is in the past you were a noob too.

 

This is more of a "get off my lawn" situation than anything. You guys sound like old people do when they talk about how music used to be awesome, and new music sucks. Stop being so bitter you old geezers!

 

yes, yes we can make excuses for noobs, but when i started pvp at least i made sure i have a decent gear,

in fact the first thing was is that i did enough pve to know the mechanics of my char and get the best gear possible.

but when you see idiots in 220 itemrating in a wz you cant help but wondering is he just doesnt care or this is a one off sort of "try" run for him? either way if you get more than 1 of these ppl in your team, you are pretty much ****ed. and yes we were all noobs at some point, but this is more about your attitude than anything, its not hard doing the weekly last boss operation once per day, with booster you get a decent cxp, plus you have plenty of other cxp options such as master uprising weekly master flashpoint weekly, they level your command beautifully. if in a ***** gear you choose to keep going into wz, that just means that you dont give a **** about your team especially when you were probably warned to get a better gear by at least one person during your unranked swtor career.

[Lhancelot]

yes, yes we can make excuses for noobs, but when i started pvp at least i made sure i have a decent gear,

in fact the first thing was is that i did enough pve to know the mechanics of my char and get the best gear possible.

but when you see idiots in 220 itemrating in a wz you cant help but wondering is he just doesnt care or this is a one off sort of "try" run for him? either way if you get more than 1 of these ppl in your team, you are pretty much ****ed. and yes we were all noobs at some point, but this is more about your attitude than anything, its not hard doing the weekly last boss operation once per day, with booster you get a decent cxp, plus you have plenty of other cxp options such as master uprising weekly master flashpoint weekly, they level your command beautifully. if in a ***** gear you choose to keep going into wz, that just means that you dont give a **** about your team especially when you were probably warned to get a better gear by at least one person during your unranked swtor career.

 

I can go back through old posts, we made the same complaints years ago.

 

Back then it was noobs and bads wouldn't listen to us when we told them how to gear with expertise in the WZs.

 

I guess the 2.0 version of that complaint is noobs and bads don't use the CXP boosts to gear faster now, which as you say, works "beautifully."

 

Gearing for WZs nowadays is nothing like it used to be, bolster does so much now.

 

I can enter WZs with a bunch of greens in 70s now and still compete whereas in the past if you were missing any amount of expertise at all and you melted like butter, and this was in regs.

 

We are talking regs here, right? The original post here was aimed at UNRANKED WARZONES. You are having a meltdown because noobs aren't optimally geared in 70s regs? Really?

 

As for OPs and whatever else you are angry about I don't know don't play those facets.

 

I am quite familiar with unranked 70s wzs though as I started on my old toons wearing 208s recently. Sure, I am at a disadvantage compared to someone in 248s, but this is nothing like it used to be when someone in non-expertise gears queued vs. expertise geared toons.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Lhancelot

[coastiebock]

To add to the beating of this horse; I don't mind playing with noobs or elitists. The only thing in PVP that drives me nuts is when people give up...ie...5 people defending a node bc they just want the match to end. PVP is the competitive side to any MMO so if you don't want to be competitive don't play it. Edited May 1, 2018 by coastiebock

[Alericus]

pvp was wrecked the minute it was opened for pve players and its declined ever since. from mat farming to arena matches..everything done to pvp has resulted in the current mess. Ive read quite a few good ideas how to recover but I fully expect this to continue so little kiddies can smash around goofing off, win trading AND BASICALLY ABUSING THE MATCHES TO GET CONQUEST POINTS. And now they want to reward this behavior by punishing those players who refuse to participate and want to leave matches with crap players . Its a joke and if done I figure pvp is over. Bioware you really messed up and I don't know if it was intentional or just unintended.

[-Bob-]

Here we go again.