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Why are the PVE content Cxp rates so low?


ZeroTypeR

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By PVE content, I refer to: Vanilla stories, Bonus quests, Planetary Quests, and Exploration Quests.

 

Pvp gets at least 1.5k CXP or more per match, Ops gets a lot (I don't know how much, because I don't do Ops), and Even flashpoints get 3k CXP per run.

 

Now I realize that there are a lot of quests, but still, 75 CXP per quests is barely anything, and it would take probably 3 days to a week to complete 100 quests (7500 CXP for 100). So I one ask: Why so low? And two ask: Is this fair?

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I've asked myself this a lot since 5.0 launched, and the only thing I can come up with is that Bioware doesn't want us to do the old quests because that will only remind us how much better they are and fuel our discontent with the quality of new content.
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It's a big detriment for me to doing quests once I've hit 70 on a class and certainly does seem constructed solely to push you towards the endgame. Which clearly has financial implications.

 

I can understand larger rewards for more challenging, mostly group content, but this much of an imbalance is just a negative service towards solo players.

Edited by silenthc
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I've asked myself this a lot since 5.0 launched, and the only thing I can come up with is that Bioware doesn't want us to do the old quests because that will only remind us how much better they are and fuel our discontent with the quality of new content.

 

I agree.

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It's a big detriment for me to doing quests once I've hit 70 on a class and certainly does seem constructed solely to push you towards the endgame. Which clearly has financial implications.

 

I can understand larger rewards for more challenging, mostly group content, but this much of an imbalance is just a negative service towards solo players.

 

Same here, but I still play them because that's where I have the most fun. It's truly a shame that solo and vanilla story players seem to be constantly ignored by Bioware.

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It's a big detriment for me to doing quests once I've hit 70 on a class and certainly does seem constructed solely to push you towards the endgame. Which clearly has financial implications.

 

I can understand larger rewards for more challenging, mostly group content, but this much of an imbalance is just a negative service towards solo players.

 

This is one of the reasons why I probably will not be renewing my subscription when it runs out. I am tired of feeling like I have to play content I do not enjoy to progress in the game.

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Don't forget about unbalance rewards from doing high level content vs low level content heroic mission.

Starter zone daily reward 247 CXP each mission.

Yavin reward exact same 247 CXP per mission.

Killing mobs in higher level zone (level 70 Iokath) yield exact same CXP at starter zone per kill.

I asked myself why would I wasting time to do something that required A LOT more time to complete, when I just can do something a lot faster in low level zone and grind mission there and getting exact same reward.

Edited by Xbladez
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I'm more annoyed by the low amount for KotFE/KotET chapters. You spend so much time on some of those chapters and you actually have to do something instead of AFKing in a wz, for example. It's one more reason why barely anyone wants to repeat those chapters. Zero incentive to do so.

 

Back in 2016, after they started their monthly story chapter plan, there was a huge outcry from a very small minority that complained that this won't work and what this game needs is MMO content. Unfortunately, BW listened and completely changed their plan. They dropped the third KotXX expansion and brought us the rushed KotET. The producer also had to go.

 

Keith was hired and his obvious main work task is to make this game a pure MMO again. Story and solo play has been completely dropped in 2017. There is NO (new) solo play anymore. Even the story is brought in group play aspects - however, as their compromise, they offer a solo version of a group content. It's still content delivered in a group fashion.

 

The next step in FORCING this game to become a pure MMO was the conquest revamp. Solo players can still participate, but it is such a terrible chore that it's almost useless to even try. If you want to get an easy 15.000 points, you have no other chance than to group up.

 

BW made one BIG mistake in 2016: They forgot that their MMO-approach fully failed in 2012 and EVERYTHING that happened afterwards (lay-offs, F2P, cartel market, SoR, KotXX, closing of hundreds of servers down to 5, losing a lot of players...) is because their MMO failed. The previous producer realised that and he tried to correct it by focussing on solo stories. Unfortunately, he didn't get the chance to go through with it. The rest is history.

 

I know that now come the people who claim that there was a huge loss of players in 2016 due to the shift to story chapters. However, neither the numbers that EA published during that year nor what you actually saw on the servers indicated such a huge loss that you had to completely stop everything and re-invent your game's wheel. (Yes, there was a loss of players but this game lost players every year since the start with the biggest loss in 2012.)

 

The second biggest loss of players came in 2017 after the conquest system (which started to emphasize on GROUP content; cue: uprisings) and the return to a subscription based model (no command system without a subscription). As surely everyone agrees on: Uprisings was a complete fail. And it was THE sign for BW that going back to focussing on group content is the wrong approach. The game's population had already changed. The MMO-freaks left in 2012, latest in 2013. Most people remaining were here mainly (albeit not only; of course many players also appreciate some group content) for the story. All polls throughout the years made it very clear that the main interest in this game is: story.

 

So, in 2017, the first huge drop in players happened in the winter. And then it got even worse during the summer after BW had announced that no further story development will occur (except some companion returns (that will not come in chapter-style)) and the focus is on group play. The result was the server merger down to 5 servers.

 

In 2018, the only new content so far has been group content and a disastrous conquest revamp. The result is that there was another huge drop of population and I go as far as saying that this April has the lowest numbers I have ever seen on my server. Loser Malgus server has now numbers that match maybe TRE one year ago. Except it's three former servers combined. The population of two complete servers is lost within 12 months of the reign of the new producer. That cannot be denied.

 

Wait, why am I writing all this? Oh, right: The reason why PvE - or, what the OP means: solo content - grants so little CXP is because BW decided that Swtor is a MMO and their focus is 100% on the MMO aspect again and in order to make that approach sound like a success even though it isn't, they have to push players to participate in group content and since many players have no interest in that, but galactic command is the end game, they have to participate in group content in order to progress in the only thing left to do: levelling their galactic command. And then the producer presents in his powerpoint presentation to the EA shareholders how active the playerbase participates in the game's group content.

 

Say what you want, deep inside you there is a spot which tells you that I am right. ;)

 

TL;DR: Just some random ramblings about why CXP for solo content is so low.

Edited by JattaGin
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This is one of the reasons why I probably will not be renewing my subscription when it runs out. I am tired of feeling like I have to play content I do not enjoy to progress in the game.

 

Same here, I'm subbing for one more month and then I'm done subbing until there's a change. This isn't the 'Play your way' for CXP hat was announced by Bioware.

Edited by ZeroTypeR
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TL;DR: Just some random ramblings about why CXP for solo content is so low.

 

I think a far simpler explanation is: they did not consider most of the story/class missions as something people would still do at level70 when they set the values. Hence they are low. With the exception of the KOTET / KOTFE chapters ( which indeed have a pathetic reward) also none of these stories are repeatable content.

 

Now what they missed in all of this is that with how easy it became to level up there is a high probability that even a story oriented player will have entire planets left of uncompleted stories by the time they hit 70.

 

They also created the L70 datacron and players buying that would have all story content left.

 

So I am not so sure it was a conscious decision to give low cxp on those (remember early on everything gave low cxp), I just think that when they started rebalancing cxp rates they focussed on achieving this through repeatable/ 'end-game' content. (with the exception of kotet/kotfe). Another additional reason could be that they figured that for all these missions you don't need better equipment. I.e. face it... for a level 70 these things are faceplant easy. (but a lot of the repeatable content is as well)

 

I do support an upwards revision of all the sory missions in terms of cxp though. As I see no reason why these should not be a viable path on the cxp treadmill and yes there are many of them that are actually pretty cool.

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TL;DR: Just some random ramblings about why CXP for solo content is so low.

 

I have to say that it is rare that someone rambles on for so long but is completely wrong as you are in this case about almost everything.

 

As for the reason that CXP for chapters is so low, it's because at 1 point running chapters 1 and 2 of KotFE was quite a bit more efficient at grinding cxp than anything else in the game so the devs of course nerfed it to the ground along with the rest of the chapters as is their usual way when they nerf things.

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By PVE content, I refer to: Vanilla stories, Bonus quests, Planetary Quests, and Exploration Quests.

 

The following planetary PvEs will disagree with this thread:

 

Yavin IV: ~25,000 CXP (with a boost, more with the bonuses) for ~20 minutes

Iokath: ~28,000 CXP (with a boost, more with the bonuses) for ~30 minutes over 2 days

 

In fact, most of the "Daily Area" missions under "SOLO" are great sources of CXP, but as I've always maintained: farming CXP just to get to 300 is the *wrong* way to play. Command Levels are companions that help you out along the way, they are *not* the reason to play SWTOR, so just play normally and gather stuffs as you go.

 

And although you didn't mention operations, there are people daily advertising for 'final boss lockouts' where you can also get insane CXP for minimal time and effort.

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The following planetary PvEs will disagree with this thread:

 

Yavin IV: ~25,000 CXP (with a boost, more with the bonuses) for ~20 minutes

Iokath: ~28,000 CXP (with a boost, more with the bonuses) for ~30 minutes over 2 days

 

In fact, most of the "Daily Area" missions under "SOLO" are great sources of CXP, but as I've always maintained: farming CXP just to get to 300 is the *wrong* way to play. Command Levels are companions that help you out along the way, they are *not* the reason to play SWTOR, so just play normally and gather stuffs as you go.

 

And although you didn't mention operations, there are people daily advertising for 'final boss lockouts' where you can also get insane CXP for minimal time and effort.

 

That is true, but it also limits the area where getting CXP is possible. The whole point of 'Play your way' for CXP IMO, was to get a decent amount of CXP no matter where you go. If you like vanilla stories, you get CXP there; if you like exploration quests, more CXP.

 

The Current system puts limits, meaning, you can only get decent CXP playing the Content that Bioware Wants you to play.

 

IMO, It defeats the purpose of creating a CXP system (and a masters datacron), saying 'Play your way' for CXP, then putting a 1,000-and-1 limits on what people can actually play.

Edited by ZeroTypeR
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The whole point of 'Play your way' for CXP IMO, was to get a decent amount of CXP no matter where you go. If you like vanilla stories, you get CXP there; if you like exploration quests, more CXP.

 

... except that isn't what your OP was about. You are complaining about PvE having low CXP rates, and I provided examples for where they aren't low at all, very high actually, so there's no need to try and backtrack like this.

 

I'll say, yet again, that if you're playing SWTOR just to grind CXP to 300, then you're doing it wrong.

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... except that isn't what your OP was about. You are complaining about PvE having low CXP rates, and I provided examples for where they aren't low at all, very high actually, so there's no need to try and backtrack like this.

 

I'll say, yet again, that if you're playing SWTOR just to grind CXP to 300, then you're doing it wrong.

 

Actually, you misunderstood the OP even though you quoted it.

 

"By PVE content, I refer to: Vanilla stories, Bonus quests, Planetary Quests, and Exploration Quests."

 

Vanilla stories, bonus quests, planetary quests and exploration quests are specific types of quests and they all get 75 cxp upon completion. If you are lucky there is a bonus objective that also gives 75 cxp. Daily areas are a different category of quests that give significantly more cxp. Apples to oranges.

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... except that isn't what your OP was about. You are complaining about PvE having low CXP rates, and I provided examples for where they aren't low at all, very high actually, so there's no need to try and backtrack like this.

 

I'll say, yet again, that if you're playing SWTOR just to grind CXP to 300, then you're doing it wrong.

 

The point of my post is about getting fair CXP rates for Vanilla Stories, Exploration quests, Planetary quests, and Bonus quests, nothing more. There are many ways of getting CXP, but none of the routes cover the topic of my post. Also, this isn't abut 300, this is about fair rates for ALL content, not just OPs, PVP, Flashpoints, and End Game.

 

XP has a fair rate for all content, so why not CXP? It's-not-fair, it's just that simple.

 

Edited

Edited by ZeroTypeR
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Actually, you misunderstood the OP even though you quoted it.

 

"By PVE content, I refer to: Vanilla stories, Bonus quests, Planetary Quests, and Exploration Quests."

 

Vanilla stories, bonus quests, planetary quests and exploration quests are specific types of quests and they all get 75 cxp upon completion. If you are lucky there is a bonus objective that also gives 75 cxp. Daily areas are a different category of quests that give significantly more cxp. Apples to oranges.

 

Exactly.

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I think a far simpler explanation is: they did not consider most of the story/class missions as something people would still do at level70 when they set the values. Hence they are low. With the exception of the KOTET / KOTFE chapters ( which indeed have a pathetic reward) also none of these stories are repeatable content.

 

Now what they missed in all of this is that with how easy it became to level up there is a high probability that even a story oriented player will have entire planets left of uncompleted stories by the time they hit 70.

 

They also created the L70 datacron and players buying that would have all story content left.

 

So I am not so sure it was a conscious decision to give low cxp on those (remember early on everything gave low cxp), I just think that when they started rebalancing cxp rates they focussed on achieving this through repeatable/ 'end-game' content. (with the exception of kotet/kotfe). Another additional reason could be that they figured that for all these missions you don't need better equipment. I.e. face it... for a level 70 these things are faceplant easy. (but a lot of the repeatable content is as well)

 

I do support an upwards revision of all the sory missions in terms of cxp though. As I see no reason why these should not be a viable path on the cxp treadmill and yes there are many of them that are actually pretty cool.

 

I think this hits the nail on the head. I don't think it was anything conscious or malicious, more benign neglect.

 

After the daily bug hit in August 2017, there was talk about a thorough scrub on assigning CXP rates to particular activities, to make them commensurate with difficulty / time. For whatever reason, I'm assuming lack of resources, that only happened in a very partial way.

 

As others have pointed out, you can do, e.g., the Ziost Heroic Weekly and get a huge amount of CXP for literally 10-12 minutes of play time. This obviously contrasts with the Class-based storylines on the planets that were originally introduced.

 

With that said, and obviously speaking only for myself, playing the class-based stories through Ilum are their own reward. When you combine that with how ridiculously easy it is to gear now and get CXP long haul, it's not that big of a deal for me.

 

Do I think they should do a revamp across the board? Sure, but it's not a huge priority. But, yes, it does go against the grain of 'play the way you want to' and still progress.

 

Dasty

Edited by Jdast
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I think this hits the nail on the head. I don't think it was anything conscious or malicious, more benign neglect.
Bingo.

 

Hanlon's Razor. Or Occam's razor.

Basically, I see no reason to believe they had an ulterior nefarious motive. They either forgot, or assumed most of this content was already done, and just never got around to raising CXP.

 

But yes, especially now with L70 Master's Datacron making essentially ALL this content new for some L70's, I think they should up it. To what? Difficulty-wise It might seem a little unjustified to make it same as H2's (225 CXP), but timewise, it really isn't much different. So, maybe 150 CXP?

Edited by DocDAM
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I think this hits the nail on the head. I don't think it was anything conscious or malicious, more benign neglect.

 

After the daily bug hit in August 2017, there was talk about a thorough scrub on assigning CXP rates to particular activities, to make them commensurate with difficulty / time. For whatever reason, I'm assuming lack of resources, that only happened in a very partial way.

 

As others have pointed out, you can do, e.g., the Ziost Heroic Weekly and get a huge amount of CXP for literally 10-12 minutes of play time. This obviously contrasts with the Class-based storylines on the planets that were originally introduced.

 

With that said, and obviously speaking only for myself, playing the class-based stories through Ilum are their own reward. When you combine that with how ridiculously easy it is to gear now and get CXP long haul, it's not that big of a deal for me.

 

Do I think they should do a revamp across the board? Sure, but it's not a huge priority. But, yes, it does go against the grain of 'play the way you want to' and still progress.

 

Dasty

 

Those are good points, both yours and the post you quoted, and also exactly, about going against the grain.

Edited by ZeroTypeR
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Bingo.

 

Hanlon's Razor. Or Occam's razor.

Basically, I see no reason to believe they had an ulterior nefarious motive. They either forgot, or assumed most of this content was already done, and just never got around to raising CXP.

 

But yes, especially now with L70 Master's Datacron making essentially ALL this content new for some L70's, I think they should up it. To what? Difficulty-wise It might seem a little unjustified to make it same as H2's (225 CXP), but timewise, it really isn't much different. So, maybe 150 CXP?

 

I would say 150, 200 CXP at the most.

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Yeah, ok, you guys lawyered me, but "Planetary Quests" is ambiguous and all I was trying to do was show that there are plenty that give crazy CXP so gimme a break.

 

Also, since you don't get CXP until 70 anyway, and like others have pointed out, why bother speed-leveling to 70 in the first place and *then* going back?

 

If anything, go back for the STORIES and the ADVENTURES, cuz that's what Vanilla SWTOR is all about, not CXP, since you don't get CXP until 70 and Vanilla is all about leveling there's no reason to give any CXP, actually, since a <70 character doesn't need it anyway.

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If anything, go back for the STORIES and the ADVENTURES, cuz that's what Vanilla SWTOR is all about, not CXP, since you don't get CXP until 70 and Vanilla is all about leveling there's no reason to give any CXP, actually, since a <70 character doesn't need it anyway.

 

I agree with this reasoning. That's pretty much how I approach the vanilla quests. They're there slightly for xp and mainly for story.

 

...do you think most of the people using master's datacrons are newbies? I assumed the bulk would be old stock players who'd seen all the quests and didn't want to level another char to get to end-game, even a measly 5-10 levels with a token.

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Plus didn't they say when cxp first came out that the easier the content the less cxp is rewarded? A class or planetary mission are very easy hence why they set it so low.

 

If that's the case, then it makes sense. It could also be debated that low lv heroics are very easy do complete, if one is overleved, yet they give a 225 CXP reward per quest and an extra CXP reward if all heroics are completed on a given planet.

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