Rabenschwinge Posted April 8, 2018 Posted April 8, 2018 There is a bit of a discussion going on regarding whether or not the possibility to deliberately ram an object in hyperspace (as every object in normal space seems to be present in hyperspace as well) constitutes a problem. Personally I am not particularly comfortable with it and I wonder whether the possible issues with that are going to be addressed in Star Wars IX "With a Serious Headache". My guess as to what's going to happen is either a) it will be ignored or b) there will be a brief explanation why this doesn't happen more often. Here are links to two videos on YouTube where different commentators argue differently about the scene: "EC Henry" arguing that it's not a problem: "Generation Tech" discussing the problem and trying to find solution: As far as I am concerned this was a very cool scene as far as the film is concerned, but it does constitute a problem and I hope it's not completely ignored in the next film. If you look at the battle of Yavin an A-Wing takes out a super star destroyer by crashing into its bridge. That star destroyer had been beaten up already, had its shields down and so forth, but assuming an A-Wing sized missile it probably could do catastrophic damage any star destroyer. Not as much as the Raddus, which is several orders of magnitude bigger and more massive, but enough to disable it, if not to completely destroy it. At the battle of Yavin a single one transport packed with scrap could have damaged the death stars super laser sufficiently to disable it and the rebels did bring loads of transport ships that weren't really doing anything. Abandon one of those and have a droid ram it into the death star's super laser, bam, problem solved. Similarly, the Empire might have used a hyperspace weapon to take out the shield generator during the battle of Hoth, after which the ground assault would have been pointless.
drug_cartel Posted April 8, 2018 Posted April 8, 2018 My own interpretation was that there is a brief period of time that we could just call "Leap to Hyperspace", where the ship rapidly increases in speed before breaking through light speed and moving at that semi-intangible hyperspace method. I personally feel as though there has to be some sort of crazy physics going on during hyperspace that make it so every stray pebble floating in space doesn't cut through a ship's hull like a bullet, so I'm inclined to believe it's sort of like physical material being converted to energy, traveling as energy, and then converting back upon arrival. Whatever. The particulars of how hyperspace works isn't important though. That Last Jedi scene, to me, showed one ship ramming another ship while approaching hyperspace. We have scene catastrophic effects of ship to ship ramming previously, from small ships crashing into flagships, to flashships crashing into each other. What was happening here is that, while making that leap to hyperspace, she was able to advance on them faster than they could react, so there was no way to evade or shield against it. It wouldn't have worked had they not already been incredibly close to each other. Otherwise she would have lept right through them without damaging them, similar to how we've seen entire fleets leap in and out of hyperspace without running over each other.
BlazeTomahawk Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) But that begs the question of established (maybe only Legends, so I maybe totally wrong) conventions of “charting a course so you don’t fly through a Star” or Han Solos Kessel Run, avoiding Black Holes by flying so close to them. If hyperspace avoids the real world, then what does that really mean? Edited April 10, 2018 by BlazeTomahawk
MadDutchman Posted April 11, 2018 Posted April 11, 2018 But that begs the question of established (maybe only Legends, so I maybe totally wrong) conventions of “charting a course so you don’t fly through a Star” or Han Solos Kessel Run, avoiding Black Holes by flying so close to them. If hyperspace avoids the real world, then what does that really mean? It only partially avoids realspace. Large sources of gravity such as stars, planets, black holes and interdictor cruisers cast "mass shadows" into hyperspace. These cause distortions that, depending on the current speed of the ship in hyperspace and how close it is to the mass shadow, can rip a ship apart. To prevent this, ships are equipped with emergency cutoffs before it gets that bad. Also, the faster the ship, the closer it can skirt to a gravity well without causing problems, which is why Han's boast about doing the Kessel run in 12 parsecs (a unit of distance) is also a boast about speed. In Legends, the X-Wing books and Corellian trilogy probably do the most exploration of hyperspace technology. In canon, most of the rules have stayed the same, but have become a bit less strict, and there are a lot of extra implications about hyperspace that weren't in legends, such as sub-hyperspace and the World Between Worlds. Many of these don't have explanations (yet), and I'm perfectly ok with that. As for the issue at hand, I think it's pretty clear that the ship was "jumping" to hyperspace at that moment, it hadn't actually entered it yet. There are plenty of reasons this isn't use more often, from the close proximity required and the sheer cost of it (especially in the case of missiles). Hyperspace engines probably aren't cheap.
Rabenschwinge Posted April 11, 2018 Author Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) As for the issue at hand, I think it's pretty clear that the ship was "jumping" to hyperspace at that moment, it hadn't actually entered it yet. There are plenty of reasons this isn't use more often, from the close proximity required and the sheer cost of it (especially in the case of missiles). Hyperspace engines probably aren't cheap. Hm... like I said, I don't really buy the price argument. To build a hyperdrive sufficient to propel a a starfighter, it cannot be more expensive than the starfighter itself, it would, in fact, be a lot cheaper, since a hyperspace missile needs only basic manuvering thrusters, a hyperdrive and as lot mass as it can pack. If you can take out a star destroyer with two or three of those, you've made a good deal. As far as the proximity is concerned: It wasn't that close. Most battles in Star Wars take place it closer distance. Edited April 11, 2018 by Rabenschwinge
AlienEyeTX Posted April 11, 2018 Posted April 11, 2018 My own interpretation was that there is a brief period of time that we could just call "Leap to Hyperspace", where the ship rapidly increases in speed before breaking through light speed and moving at that semi-intangible hyperspace method. I personally feel as though there has to be some sort of crazy physics going on during hyperspace that make it so every stray pebble floating in space doesn't cut through a ship's hull like a bullet, so I'm inclined to believe it's sort of like physical material being converted to energy, traveling as energy, and then converting back upon arrival. Whatever. The particulars of how hyperspace works isn't important though. That Last Jedi scene, to me, showed one ship ramming another ship while approaching hyperspace. We have scene catastrophic effects of ship to ship ramming previously, from small ships crashing into flagships, to flashships crashing into each other. What was happening here is that, while making that leap to hyperspace, she was able to advance on them faster than they could react, so there was no way to evade or shield against it. It wouldn't have worked had they not already been incredibly close to each other. Otherwise she would have lept right through them without damaging them, similar to how we've seen entire fleets leap in and out of hyperspace without running over each other. I think the ship's shields play a large role in not allowing small debris to puncture the hull (or "windshield"). So, not so much physics as good ol' physical protection. And, of course, plotting a course allows the pilot to avoid large bodies in space. Really, there's a lot of emptiness out there, so it's not like a ship would be constantly dodging planets and stars. But, I do agree that the ship probably never actually made it to hyperspace in this instance. It was approaching hyperspace as it accelerated to get to that point. Anyway, the same rules still apply.
AlienEyeTX Posted April 11, 2018 Posted April 11, 2018 Hm... like I said, I don't really buy the price argument. To build a hyperdrive sufficient to propel a a starfighter, it cannot be more expensive than the starfighter itself, it would, in fact, be a lot cheaper, since a hyperspace missile needs only basic manuvering thrusters, a hyperdrive and as lot mass as it can pack. If you can take out a star destroyer with two or three of those, you've made a good deal. As far as the proximity is concerned: It wasn't that close. Most battles in Star Wars take place it closer distance. What makes you think a hyperspace missile would break through the shields? And even if it did, it would basically leave a missile-sized hole in the vessel. Probably not enough to destroy it unless it goes through the reactor or disables engines.
jarjarloves Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 What makes you think a hyperspace missile would break through the shields? And even if it did, it would basically leave a missile-sized hole in the vessel. Probably not enough to destroy it unless it goes through the reactor or disables engines. exactly you would just have to build massive capital ships just to be used as a 1 time missile. We see that rebels/resistance have a hard time of getting ships in the first place. It's the same reason we don't use Aircraft carriers as giant rams and just ram them into enemy ships.
Recommended Posts