Please bring back chapters for story content rather than flashpoints

[DarthSpuds]

There's an easy enough way to resolve the debate. EA's annual reports are a matter of public record. It would be a federal offense for a company to falsify these because they are required accounting to the company's shareholders and investors.

 

For the FY 2016, which was the height of the KOTFE/KOTET era, SWTOR was listed as one of the two top-performing properties for EA (page 35): https://materials.proxyvote.com/Approved/285512/20170602/10K_328050/#/1/

 

It is thus not a lie or propaganda to say that KOTFE/KOTET were very successful.

 

In more recent reports since the content has dropped off, SWTOR isn't even mentioned. It's not rocket science; when the game stops putting out content of interest regularly, people stop playing.

 

Interesting thing, in this report it also notes that 70% of Battlefield players opted for the single-player campaign.

 

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/6188246165x0x941987/1E8ACDA2-74B4-4A25-96C0-3BBA1913F864/Q4_FY17_Earnings_Release.pdf

 

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/6188246165x0x969985/918604C2-049F-4B81-92EB-04E29030B630/Q3_FY18_Earnings_Release.pdf

 

Woah now!

 

Just what the heck do you think you are doing!?!?!?!?!?

 

Verifiable, scrutinised FACTS have no place on an Internet Forum.

 

All The Best

[ExarSun]

There's an easy enough way to resolve the debate. EA's annual reports are a matter of public record. It would be a federal offense for a company to falsify these because they are required accounting to the company's shareholders and investors.

 

For the FY 2016, which was the height of the KOTFE/KOTET era, SWTOR was listed as one of the two top-performing properties for EA (page 35): https://materials.proxyvote.com/Approved/285512/20170602/10K_328050/#/1/

 

It is thus not a lie or propaganda to say that KOTFE/KOTET were very successful.

 

In more recent reports since the content has dropped off, SWTOR isn't even mentioned. It's not rocket science; when the game stops putting out content of interest regularly, people stop playing.

 

Interesting thing, in this report it also notes that 70% of Battlefield players opted for the single-player campaign.

 

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/6188246165x0x941987/1E8ACDA2-74B4-4A25-96C0-3BBA1913F864/Q4_FY17_Earnings_Release.pdf

 

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/6188246165x0x969985/918604C2-049F-4B81-92EB-04E29030B630/Q3_FY18_Earnings_Release.pdf

 

Right on point. Was about to search for that. Always best to use facts. Though seeing the state of this game for 2015-2016 vs 2017-2018 is also quite telling.

[ZionHalcyon]

Yes, bring back the story approach that made the game lose the largest amount of regular players two expansions in a row! /s

 

Nah, flashpoints are the way to go for future game content as well as most story, you can still easily do it solo even if you are a new player (due to support droid) and it enables different levels of gameplay like two variants of multiplayer content. With new schematics and items, Devs have an easy time with both adding loot that incentives players and they have themselves commented that flashpoints are easier from a developer perspective to ensure replayability, while chapters, while still being repeatable, never resulted in much.

 

Here's the thing. When people are talking about chapters, they aren't usually talking about the current ones from kotfe and kotet. They are talking about the original vanilla chapters. The great irony is that kotfe and kotet royally mangled the whole chapter system and did it in such a poor way. But it was the refusal to do any further class stories that caused the first initial wave of people to leave and in a large quantity.

[Rheshalea]

I agree, I think the chapter model would've been more successful if 1) the story was far better and choices actually mattered so the story was worth replaying, and 2) they'd managed to put out chapters faster and with more content. Getting 20 minutes of playtime a month (at best) wasn't near enough to make most story players happy, and it DEFINITELY didn't make the neglected PvE and PvP players happy.

 

I agree (and with what Damask_Rose said too).

I don't think the format was the problem at all, but the KotFEET story itself and how it was told. The plotline, as it was told, didn't work for this game - but that doesn't mean the model itself was at fault.

I think the Star Fortresses was supposed to be the "filler" content, or at least part of it, but I don't know how much others did of it. I know I still have only done one (or maybe two?) of them on Heroic mode, in part because my husband quit because he disliked KotFE so much.

 

What I really wish for is a lot of the future content becoming scalable, or have more modes at least. If future chapters/story content could be (re?)played by groups of different sizes--everything from solo to 16-person groups--they'd have covered a lot of what PvE-players want.

 

But absolutely most important to me is that the story and plotlines are better and more suitable for the overall setting than KotFE, and also that the poor companions aren't messed with again.

[Ciarayn]

You were forced to do them solo, so when a guildie needed help, there was literally nothing you could do but try your best to talk them through it.

You actually can go in and help out in chapters. You might need to turn on the option to allow access to the same class/personal story, though.

 

Here are the instructions (from Bioware):

Once your group is formed and you are in a story phase, right-click on your player portrait and select "Summon Group for Story Quest ." Your group members will get a pop up informing them that they have been invited to your story. As soon as they accept the invite, they will be teleported directly to your story phase.

[DuchessKristania]

You actually can go in and help out in chapters. You might need to turn on the option to allow access to the same class/personal story, though.

 

Here are the instructions (from Bioware):

Once your group is formed and you are in a story phase, right-click on your player portrait and select "Summon Group for Story Quest ." Your group members will get a pop up informing them that they have been invited to your story. As soon as they accept the invite, they will be teleported directly to your story phase.

 

Yep, in fact, I've helped almost every one of my guildies get through the final fight in KotET. I have helped every single person in my guild with some part of KotXX at one point or another. They have to summon their group to the story quest.

[zzoorrzz]

I'M playing chapters for the first time after coming back to the game and it is maybe the best time I ever had in gaming in years. I hope they bring them back sometime in the future. SoR was ok, but nowhere close to the chapter in the level of fun.

[Keta]

That is NOT a problem with Chapters though.

 

That IS a problem with Bioware's grind-for-no-reward game strategy.

 

All The Best

 

Wait! What?! You mean there are actually mmo's where you grind for a reward? Hah! Don't be silly.

[Cowoline]

There's an easy enough way to resolve the debate. EA's annual reports are a matter of public record. It would be a federal offense for a company to falsify these because they are required accounting to the company's shareholders and investors.

 

For the FY 2016, which was the height of the KOTFE/KOTET era, SWTOR was listed as one of the two top-performing properties for EA (page 35): https://materials.proxyvote.com/Approved/285512/20170602/10K_328050/#/1/

 

It is thus not a lie or propaganda to say that KOTFE/KOTET were very successful.

 

In more recent reports since the content has dropped off, SWTOR isn't even mentioned. It's not rocket science; when the game stops putting out content of interest regularly, people stop playing.

 

Interesting thing, in this report it also notes that 70% of Battlefield players opted for the single-player campaign.

 

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/6188246165x0x941987/1E8ACDA2-74B4-4A25-96C0-3BBA1913F864/Q4_FY17_Earnings_Release.pdf

 

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/6188246165x0x969985/918604C2-049F-4B81-92EB-04E29030B630/Q3_FY18_Earnings_Release.pdf

 

I always knew I liked you! Thanks for sharing!

[Cowoline]

Here's the thing. When people are talking about chapters, they aren't usually talking about the current ones from kotfe and kotet. They are talking about the original vanilla chapters. The great irony is that kotfe and kotet royally mangled the whole chapter system and did it in such a poor way. But it was the refusal to do any further class stories that caused the first initial wave of people to leave and in a large quantity.

 

Actually I would disagree. Whenever people mentions chapters here or on Reddit, they are almost always referring to the KOTET/KOTFE chapters.

 

I will agree that the lack of class related content was/is a problem. Even the tiny bit that SOR had was awesome. It doesn't need to be that huge, just some acknowledgement of the original class that makes the experience different.

[JamieKirby]

Well, they really didn't want us to know how short this Theron story really was, so if they put it into flashpoints only, they will make it seem longer.

[MikeCobalt]

How about good "Meaty" chapters on a regular basis one side Rep the other side Imp like "SOR" and still with class specific sub quests within. Add a "FlashPoint Type Event" at the end of every chapter to keep up "Repeatable Content" so the game never becomes "Been there, Done That" Like the Zakuul story was. We choose the Running Companion. Edited April 10, 2018 by MikeCobalt

[Rheshalea]

Here's the thing. When people are talking about chapters, they aren't usually talking about the current ones from kotfe and kotet. They are talking about the original vanilla chapters. The great irony is that kotfe and kotet royally mangled the whole chapter system and did it in such a poor way. But it was the refusal to do any further class stories that caused the first initial wave of people to leave and in a large quantity.

 

No, when I'm talking about chapters I mean exactly and only KotFEET story chapters.

If I talk about Classic/Vanilla Class Stories I call them Class Stories.

RotC and SoR didn't have either. I call those Makeb Rep/Imp story, not that anyone ever talks about them (which is a shame, because they weren't all that bad, either, just perhaps not a good fit for this game, much like KotFEET).

SoR I might talk about as Rishi or Yavin, with or without a 'story' added, but neither one of those were that memorable either.

[omaan]

I really enjoyed the chapters for story content, and I really dislike the flashpoints for story content. Please bring back the chapter format for story releases instead of flashpoints. The chapters already have mechanics built in such as being able to replay them and being able to leave and then come back and pick up where you left off (rather than having to restart). Also, they are made for story content, and so it worked much better in chapters. In a couple of the flashpoints story felt like an afterthought. This is disappointing as it is the only story content we are getting other than 2-minute companion returns.

 

Additionally, please have at least 4 chapters released per a year. GW2 released 4 chapters in 2017 (and 2018 seems to be similar), and each comes with a map. GW2 releases these for free (no monthly subscription), so I would think with a subscription SWTOR could release at least that amount but with higher quality. This is in addition to expansions.

 

Fully agree here, if choosing between chapters and fps i would like to have chapters like it was with kotfe

[DuchessKristania]

No, when I'm talking about chapters I mean exactly and only KotFEET story chapters.

If I talk about Classic/Vanilla Class Stories I call them Class Stories.

RotC and SoR didn't have either. I call those Makeb Rep/Imp story, not that anyone ever talks about them (which is a shame, because they weren't all that bad, either, just perhaps not a good fit for this game, much like KotFEET).

SoR I might talk about as Rishi or Yavin, with or without a 'story' added, but neither one of those were that memorable either.

 

REally? You haven't seen people talk about SoR? I see people constantly bring that one up as an example of what they want to see in the game. A lot of players, myself included, think that was one of the best expansions in this game. RotHC doesn't seem to get as much love, so I would agree with you on that. I didn't care for it, personally, but that's because Makeb annoys me, lol.

[Rheshalea]

REally? You haven't seen people talk about SoR? I see people constantly bring that one up as an example of what they want to see in the game. A lot of players, myself included, think that was one of the best expansions in this game. RotHC doesn't seem to get as much love, so I would agree with you on that. I didn't care for it, personally, but that's because Makeb annoys me, lol.

 

Yes, recently people on the forums are talking about it. I was talking specifically about myself, in response to what 'everyone' means when they say 'chapters'.

I enjoyed SoR very much as a whole. It was what I consider a real expansion -- but I still don't feel people (myself included) talk specifically about the story in SoR, apart from being happy about the tiny amount of class story.

[Cowoline]

Yes, recently people on the forums are talking about it. I was talking specifically about myself, in response to what 'everyone' means when they say 'chapters'.

I enjoyed SoR very much as a whole. It was what I consider a real expansion -- but I still don't feel people (myself included) talk specifically about the story in SoR, apart from being happy about the tiny amount of class story.

 

I have seen it mentioned a lot both here and on Reddit. Same with Makeb - though why some people seem to love this one so much is beyond me. I found it very dull in terms of story.

[Ciarayn]

Here's the thing. When people are talking about chapters, they aren't usually talking about the current ones from kotfe and kotet. They are talking about the original vanilla chapters. The great irony is that kotfe and kotet royally mangled the whole chapter system and did it in such a poor way. But it was the refusal to do any further class stories that caused the first initial wave of people to leave and in a large quantity.

I meant the KotFE & KotET chapter structure. I like the class stories as well. However, I think they already said they couldn't bring those back because they are too expensive.

[Cowoline]

I meant the KotFE & KotET chapter structure. I like the class stories as well. However, I think they already said they couldn't bring those back because they are too expensive.

 

If I remember correctly it also had something to do with them not wanting to risk breaking them.

[Costello]

Chapters were a good idea.

 

Its just a shame that the story is many of them was badly done and for some the entire chapter was a mess, with almost pointless objectives having you run around and get attacked by enemies falling from the sky.

 

So disappointing chapters like 10, 11 and 12 of Kotfe have made it seem like the concept was a bad one. When if anything looking back at a monthly update and alter was a damn lot of content compared to what we have seen in 2017/18. Unfortunately those early chapters seemed to be light on content and have very little to do with the main story arc, so after a month of waiting for the next installment you get a couple of cut scenes some very easy fights and its all over ready to wait on next month.

 

The other thing that chapters have over flashpoints is that they don't have to follow the same forumla as run along one boss fight, run along some more another boss flight. Flashpoints by their nature are on rails while a chapter can incorporate an open world experience because it doesn't need to be converted into a master mode with elite level bosses that could never be used in an open world area and has to avoid people being able to skip areas to just get on to the bosses.

 

Flashpoints have their place but not at the expense of all other content.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Costello

[IanArgent]

On the flip side, I doubt they would have even tried the chapters and only chapters model if they thought enough people played and subscribed for group content to make that content necessary. Eric & Charles looked awfully uncomfortable and were very evasive when SWTOR Central asked them how popular raiding was as an activity.

 

Unfortunately they alienated their group players without satisfying their core story players, because while long, the story in those chapters was sub-standard. Quantity =/= quality. Was it the chapter format that failed or the content of said chapters? If you have been reading feedback for the last two years, it's the content people have been complaining about, not the delivery. To be honest, I don't think Bioware has a clue why SWtOR is struggling to attract and keep players and they are flailing around throwing spaghetti at the wall to see if any sticks.

 

Bioware tried to tell a Bioware Story in Star Wars. And it wasn't one of their best stories, either. I won't make excuses for it. So, all the complaints about chapters, and nobody really satisfied.

[Cowoline]

Bioware tried to tell a Bioware Story in Star Wars. And it wasn't one of their best stories, either. I won't make excuses for it. So, all the complaints about chapters, and nobody really satisfied.

 

I know that kotfe and kotet gets a lot of grief, but I really don't think it was as bad as people make it out to be. Had it been a story made only for the force users and then made another for non force users I actually would have found it decent. It was just a different type of story telling and it has some good characters.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Cowoline

[IoNonSoEVero]

I know that kotfe and kotet gets a lot of grief, but I really don't think it was as bad as people make it out to be. Had it been a story made only for the force users and then made another for non force users I actually would have found it decent. It was just a different type of story telling and it has some good characters.

 

ITA. There are things I really, REALLY don't like about KOTFE and KOTET, but I enjoyed playing both of them. To use their own phrase, choices matter and some of the choices they made with it were not good ones.

 

If they'd been able to stick with their original plan of three seasons and separate stories for every class - or even just the two stories (one for Force users, one for non-Force users) - I think it would have been considered in much higher esteem.

[JamaicanCastle]

I know that kotfe and kotet gets a lot of grief, but I really don't think it was as bad as people make it out to be. Had it been a story made only for the force users and then made another for non force users I actually would have found it decent. It was just a different type of story telling and it has some good characters.

 

I actually liked KotFE more than Shadow of Revan, for what that's worth. And then everybody complained and they rushed KotET like mad and it sucked.

[IanArgent]

I didn't hate the Knights storylines, though I thought they had execution issues. Starting with having The Eternal Empire be stronger than both the existing Galactic superpowers together at the height of their war prep. Let the Imps and Pubs beat each other to pulp, and then the EE can sweep in and disrupt the balance of power without being unreasonably OP, for one thing.

 

I don't think the story was as "force-character-focused" as some others, but it could have used some tuning (particularly chapter 12 - why make it a weapon when a Relic would be thematically appropriate and not disrupt people's visuals?), and some more emphasis on "it doesn't matter if you believe in the Force, the Force believes in you." (extremely distilled). There's always been "something special" about all the class PCs, it's not unreasonable for that to have been noticed by someone. And even the non-Force users cut down plenty of powerful Forc eUsers in their own stories. Dial back "The EE's Force Ways are just Better" and the problem solves itself.

 

Dial down the "over the top epic" and a lot of the fridge logic goes away; why does the leader of a power to rival the victor of a war vs the Empire and the Republic at the height of their powers do their own spec-ops? If you don't have to oppose an Eternal Empire that beat both of them like a big bass drum, you don't need to explain that - they are free to be a rag-tag grab bag of people, striking from a hidden base, against another bunch of upstarts.

 

You have to retheme the Star Fortresses, and later the Uprisings, but those are excuse plots anyway.

 

 

 

This is what I mean by sloppy execution - there's a lot of "don't look too closely at this" in the story; and NO DISTRATIONS from it.