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PVP balance out of control


Gingishan

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Operative is very strong class as it has been for a long time now. Not the most OP but has a lot going on for it. If you think it’s damage is weak you haven’t seen a good oper yet. As a class they aren’t relegated to guarding and trolling only ..

 

Absolutly agreed. Watch this video, recorded in 2018 (see how the author barely stop from a loud laugh in the start of the video:P), see how ”bad” is oper in stoping u to cap and just because too much mobility/imunity. He did 1.2 mil dmg by kiting, almost 1 mil healing by kiting, 27k bigest hit, 1 single death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onTgj1KulRs

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Absolutly agreed. Watch this video, recorded in 2018 (see how the author barely stop from a loud laugh in the start of the video:P), see how ”bad” is oper in stoping u to cap and just because too much mobility/imunity. He did 1.2 mil dmg by kiting, almost 1 mil healing by kiting, 27k bigest hit, 1 single death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onTgj1KulRs

You know u can link snave videos right too (3 years of playing oper), and only thing he does is guard nodes most of the times since this is niche of operatives outside of that not much. Yes we can do damage but equally skilled mara, sniper or merc, sin will definitely out damage and us.

 

You have so much cringe about something that is not OP,

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You know u can link snave videos right too (3 years of playing oper), and only thing he does is guard nodes most of the times since this is niche of operatives outside of that not much. Yes we can do damage but equally skilled mara, sniper or merc, sin will definitely out damage and us.

 

You have so much cringe about something that is not OP,

 

I was with Snave in the same guild, i was playing marauder, we were simply destroying everything in the path on ranked (8v8), that was our job: kill and kill fast, outdpsing any healing output. I know him very well. But since i do not play marauder anymore but another class, want equal chances with all classes, something this game do not have.

Time for me to move back to wow has come. Have fun all of u. Will play swtor from time to time only until the launch of new expansion on wow (in august), then i am out for good from this game.

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First of all please sorry for my bad english.

We all love SWTOR and the game have many good aspects specially in PVE. But when it come to PVP the things are dramatically. A game have the potential to relax players, make them feel great, destress them even. We do not see this in here and this is sad trully.

Things that must be imediatly adresed asap in PVP:

1. Tier gear. Curently i saw 4 Tier. Game should have only 2 Tier, one from normal WZ-nes and second for Ranked WZ-nes, like most decent PVP games have. make the game to distress us not to stres players with over and over grinding gear.

2. Premades should not be alowed to que unless other premades, basically remove premades from normal warzones. Make a third button with que for premades. Go further and make minimum 2 stages of que, 1 for tier 230-242 and onother for 246-248, unless u remove the 4 tier and let only 2 as i posted above. Go even further since is easy: How u chose openents: same number of healers on each side, same with tanks, same number, same ilvl. Played for days against same premades, with abusive players in language, showing how good they are in premades but very bad when quing solo, most of them leaving WZ-nes if they see they lose. For leavers 30 minutes penalties should be fine.

3. OP classes. I realy want Devs to teach us: How can a jug or any any leap class fight with snipers, in my opinion the most OP class in the proper hands (i leveled one so i see it myself). Leap should be usable against any kind of entrech, cover, etc, even against net from commnados/mercs. And not only leap, but include a second leap like heroic leap or jedi leap with hi range but animation like zelous leap. Imunity on leap, minimum 4 seconds, doubled with talent to make pair with mercs/mandos. Jugs/guardians play shank because the dps tree are lamentable to play, so the fault is yours not them.

4. Remove healing from any dps class. Is anoying to see opers/scoundrels kiting and interupting a node from beeing caped just because they heal like mads, they have too much dodge, they are extremly mobile and roll is buging the game in a way out of control ( i have both scoundrel and operative and i know what i am talking about, they outperform even in low ilvl gear). It is annoying to see mercs dps healing more then 2 times their HP by just talents and instant healing procs.

5. Revamping skill tree for every class. Ideeas? YES! OFC! U did excelent job with chapter Shrouds of Memories, the design for classes should match that type of few talents like HK-55 have. Here u can do an excelent job, revamp the game and stop beeing lazy. Go see and learn from Battlefront 2, from Overwatch, Titanfall and decent PVP games, so easy to play and most of all enjoyable.

6. Quing: I saw alot of moments and WZ-nes where 3-4 players must fight vs 8 players, not once but many times.

7. LEAP BUG. I lost nodes by simply leaping under map (have pictures to prove) multiple times in same WZ-ne. Mostly this hapen when sorc speed up or when operatives roll. Since game started this BUG is not fixed. Leaped 5 times undermap in same WZ-ne, cmon, rlly?

8. Cheaters: Will give you 1 example: Darth Malgus, player named ÒÔÖ, jedi shadow. he caped nodes before time start, he caped ball before game start (have pics to prove if u ask).

Thanks

 

1.) We had 2 tiers of gear before and bioware removed them. They're not going back. Plus, I think everyone can agree that being able to just have 1 gear set for everything is nice.

 

2.) First off, there's not even enough players to segment pvp even farther. The game is barely hanging on as is and most players are at 248 item level. Bolster helps by boosting your stats to around 242 item level. Second, premades are so prevalent because alot of the good players have stopped playing the game. I would rather play in a 4 man premade with guildies in voice comms and win games than play in a pug group and lose multiple games because people don't know how to play objectives, kill healers, or just play their class.

 

3.) Really. You think snipers are OP? Yes they are very, very good when used by a good player who knows how to play it but they're not OP. There are so many mediocre snipers in PvP that it's honestly a joke. Sorry but this requires a "git gud" response. As you learn how to play PvP and how to play your class effectively, you'll see that each class has a weakness and how to exploit them.

 

4.) Another "gid gud" response. Every DPS class except Sniper and Mara have healing in some way. This is because sniper and mara are the only pure DPS classes in the game and technically have/should have the highest DPS output. Other classes make up for their lack of DPS output by having heals and other utilities. If you're fighting a scoundrel/operative, you need to get them stunned, netted, slowed, etc. If you don't CC them, they can roll and LOS you and heal.

 

5.) Skill trees were already revamped in 3.0 because BW wanted to cater to new players and make everyone cookie cutter builds.

 

6.) You do realize that the warzone ends in 30 seconds if you have less than 6 people in your warzone group?

 

7.) I haven't seen this bug ever in my 5 years of playing this game and bugs like this seem to always exist.

 

8.) Cheaters will be in every game unfortunately. Just gotta report them and hope for the best. (P.S. 99% of the time the person cheating is really bad so they use exploits and cheats to win games.)

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Is there any reason at this late date to even have gear tiers for pvp? Why not just bolster everyone to 248 in pvp and remove this aspect of the game entirely? The main gripe in these forums is that matches are unbalanced. Under the winner takes 2x reward system we have now, the better players are more likely to have the better gear which just makes the imbalance worse. Uniform bolster to 248 would encourage players to try different classes which is the best way to learn the classes, which is the best way to get better, which is the best way to have good matches.

 

With a large population, having different gear levels makes sense to create diversity of experience within an elo range. But at this point all it does in exacerbate imbalance and should be done away with.

 

Honestly, does anyone here really take pride in having 248 gear? Does anyone really get psyched about leveling the gear of their new toon?

 

From what I read, all anyone cares about anymore is finding a good match.

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Is there any reason at this late date to even have gear tiers for pvp? Why not just bolster everyone to 248 in pvp and remove this aspect of the game entirely? The main gripe in these forums is that matches are unbalanced. Under the winner takes 2x reward system we have now, the better players are more likely to have the better gear which just makes the imbalance worse. Uniform bolster to 248 would encourage players to try different classes which is the best way to learn the classes, which is the best way to get better, which is the best way to have good matches.

 

With a large population, having different gear levels makes sense to create diversity of experience within an elo range. But at this point all it does in exacerbate imbalance and should be done away with.

 

Honestly, does anyone here really take pride in having 248 gear? Does anyone really get psyched about leveling the gear of their new toon?

 

From what I read, all anyone cares about anymore is finding a good match.

 

Gear doesn't even matter in PvP if you know how to play your class/the game. A person in 230 gear can kill a person in 248 gear easily.

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Is there any reason at this late date to even have gear tiers for pvp? Why not just bolster everyone to 248 in pvp and remove this aspect of the game entirely? The main gripe in these forums is that matches are unbalanced. Under the winner takes 2x reward system we have now, the better players are more likely to have the better gear which just makes the imbalance worse. Uniform bolster to 248 would encourage players to try different classes which is the best way to learn the classes, which is the best way to get better, which is the best way to have good matches.

 

With a large population, having different gear levels makes sense to create diversity of experience within an elo range. But at this point all it does in exacerbate imbalance and should be done away with.

 

Honestly, does anyone here really take pride in having 248 gear? Does anyone really get psyched about leveling the gear of their new toon?

 

From what I read, all anyone cares about anymore is finding a good match.

 

Your ideea have power, l like it:P

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Gear doesn't even matter in PvP if you know how to play your class/the game. A person in 230 gear can kill a person in 248 gear easily.

 

Not really. Gear count a lot in PVP. Only 3 classes do good in 230 tho: sniper/oper/merc.

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Gear doesn't even matter in PvP if you know how to play your class/the game. A person in 230 gear can kill a person in 248 gear easily.

 

I'm not so sure. I think to be "good" not only do you need to know your class as you say, but you also need a working familiarity with all advanced classes. Being able to size up an opponent is so important and a separate thing from knowing your main class. I think many advancing players know their main toon's abilities pretty well, but are still shaky on other classes' abilities. These players are not bad, but they are not yet good. Novices, maybe?

 

So my first point is this: the novice suffers more from inferior gear than the expert benefits from good gear. So at this point gearing actually hurts matchmaking. Do away with it. I know this is hard for people who instinctively think winning should be rewarded. But rewarding good players by making bad players even worse (relatively) is nuts. All it does is drive the good players to these boards where they endlessly whinge about the poor competition.

 

My second point: not having good gear scares some people away form even playing an alt in pvp (it does me). But if people actually studied the different classes (and played them a little, say in regs) it actually makes them better pvpers. For example, I have never played a sniper, and although I would like to learn how to, the time commitment to level and gear is a real obstacle. And I don't want to go ruin a game by "experimenting with a low level sniper". But if like in GW2 I could just go and gear one to max and practice it against a wz dummy I absolutely would. I am certain this would make me a better player when up against a sniper. And better more informed players makes for better matches.

Edited by TacoClaw
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Gear doesn't even matter in PvP if you know how to play your class/the game. A person in 230 gear can kill a person in 248 gear easily.

 

That is false. If two players are close to equal skill, it doesn’t matter if you know your class well, you will lose against your opponent if the have 248 gear and you have 230 gear.

 

You will only win in gear situation like that if there is a big discrepancy in player skills. Even an average to mediocre player in 248 gear and 236 mods will beat most good players in 230 gear. The higher geared player would need to be really bad or the lower geared player would need to be one of those top 5% players, which are now rare in this game.

 

So unless you are saying you are one of those top 5 percenters, I call bull crap that “you” can beat an average player in 248 gear while you wear 230 gear.

Even if you are a top 5% player, there are still 95% of players in the game with less skill, so gear definitely matters to them.

 

Either way, gear matters these days because the discrepancy between 230 bolstered gear and 248 augmented gear is so big. When we only had pvp gear it wasn’t an issue. Good players could decimate 208 players when they wore lower gear.

 

Gear only matters because you never know who you will be against. The only way we will ever be able to tell these days who is actually in the top 5% is if we all have the same gear or gear lvl. Pvp should not be about gear.

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That is false. If two players are close to equal skill, it doesn’t matter if you know your class well, you will lose against your opponent if the have 248 gear and you have 230 gear.

 

You will only win in gear situation like that if there is a big discrepancy in player skills. Even an average to mediocre player in 248 gear and 236 mods will beat most good players in 230 gear. The higher geared player would need to be really bad or the lower geared player would need to be one of those top 5% players, which are now rare in this game.

 

So unless you are saying you are one of those top 5 percenters, I call bull crap that “you” can beat an average player in 248 gear while you wear 230 gear.

Even if you are a top 5% player, there are still 95% of players in the game with less skill, so gear definitely matters to them.

 

Either way, gear matters these days because the discrepancy between 230 bolstered gear and 248 augmented gear is so big. When we only had pvp gear it wasn’t an issue. Good players could decimate 208 players when they wore lower gear.

 

Gear only matters because you never know who you will be against. The only way we will ever be able to tell these days who is actually in the top 5% is if we all have the same gear or gear lvl. Pvp should not be about gear.

 

True for close skills only:P

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Look to this operative dps healing. And his bigest hit. In that game i was on alt and he did hiest hit (32k), same as the sniper in the group. Burst and mobility make this class very very dangerous. Why some classes are more bursty then others and why not a fair balance for all? And it was a regular WZ, not a big deal and not a constant fight since the map was more suited for mobility (yavin ruins).

Overall: 1,7 mil dmg and almost 1 mil healing. Compare with other classes above him, same ilvl geared (look to PT healing, a bit over 100k (pathetic compared with operative) So, is it dps or healer? Or hybrid? If we play hybrids then make all classes hybrids with great dps and healing, if we play as dps then let it be dps, if we play as healer then go for healing. Devs, u still sleep out there?

 

https://s26.postimg.cc/5n97h55zt/Operative_LI.jpg

 

Biggest hits for operatives at that level tend to be from reflect and without knowing the context of the game that scoreboard doesn't really tell the story of what happened. I don't think 2k DPS is something we need to be overly concerned about though. We also need to be careful we don't put too much stock in highlight reel youtube videos and cherry-picked screenshots :)

 

And this is why opers/scoundrels need huge nerfs:

Do not try to say something else, i do not care, the fact is a fact, untill something new prove me i am wrong. Poor devs and their pvp balance...:mad:

 

This is a 3v1 ganking compilation, not only are the clips 3v1 but they're also specific examples of when the 3v1 had the desired outcome they were looking for.

 

All you have to do to ruin a concealment operatives day is never whitebar him and spam roots. He'll have to burn evasion and any other root breaks he's spec'd, after that he'll go down quick.

 

If you whitebar him you're dumb and he's going to roll around you all day long.

 

This is correct.

 

Absolutly agreed. Watch this video, recorded in 2018 (see how the author barely stop from a loud laugh in the start of the video:P), see how ”bad” is oper in stoping u to cap and just because too much mobility/imunity. He did 1.2 mil dmg by kiting, almost 1 mil healing by kiting, 27k bigest hit, 1 single death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onTgj1KulRs

 

The video only shows the start of the game so we can't really comment on where the damage came from, biggest hit again is most likely from reflect but 27k is certainly possible. The real takeaway from that video is those players simply have no idea how to cap a node, it's actually very hard to stall 2 players who know what they are doing and the difficulty goes up exponentially with each extra player. The evidence that you are providing does not help your case and again, be wary when comparing someone elses highlights to your day to day play.

 

I was with Snave in the same guild, i was playing marauder, we were simply destroying everything in the path on ranked (8v8), that was our job: kill and kill fast, outdpsing any healing output. I know him very well. But since i do not play marauder anymore but another class, want equal chances with all classes, something this game do not have.

Time for me to move back to wow has come. Have fun all of u. Will play swtor from time to time only until the launch of new expansion on wow (in august), then i am out for good from this game.

 

I'm not sure who you were or what guild we were in together. You'll have to jog my memory on this one, I know most of the marauders who used to play 8's with me have stopped playing the game.

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Quote: Originally Posted by Gingishan View Post

I was with Snave in the same guild, i was playing marauder, we were simply destroying everything in the path on ranked (8v8), that was our job: kill and kill fast, outdpsing any healing output. I know him very well. But since i do not play marauder anymore but another class, want equal chances with all classes, something this game do not have.

Time for me to move back to wow has come. Have fun all of u. Will play swtor from time to time only until the launch of new expansion on wow (in august), then i am out for good from this game.

 

Again another player soon to be leaving due to PVP IMBALANCE being out of control. Not Surprised. Its a problem FIX IT.

Edited by Dowillia
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Quote: Originally Posted by Gingishan View Post

I was with Snave in the same guild, i was playing marauder, we were simply destroying everything in the path on ranked (8v8), that was our job: kill and kill fast, outdpsing any healing output. I know him very well. But since i do not play marauder anymore but another class, want equal chances with all classes, something this game do not have.

Time for me to move back to wow has come. Have fun all of u. Will play swtor from time to time only until the launch of new expansion on wow (in august), then i am out for good from this game.

 

Again another player soon to be leaving due to PVP IMBALANCE being out of control. Not Surprised. Its a problem FIX IT.

 

I quited to play few years ago, just returned for 3-4 months if i am correct, will quit again since i see no balance at all. It is my 3 quit and the last, perhaps. Swtor will remain an alt game for me in the best option. So yes, i am old player.

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Biggest hits for operatives at that level tend to be from reflect and without knowing the context of the game that scoreboard doesn't really tell the story of what happened. I don't think 2k DPS is something we need to be overly concerned about though. We also need to be careful we don't put too much stock in highlight reel youtube videos and cherry-picked screenshots :)

 

Not dps count but what he can do

 

This is a 3v1 ganking compilation, not only are the clips 3v1 but they're also specific examples of when the 3v1 had the desired outcome they were looking for.

 

If 3 jugs gank oper, the oper will escape. If 3 opers gank 1 jug, that jug will die. And this is not theory but axioma:p

 

This is correct.

 

Nothing is correct to the game right now and will not be, but we can eat that as long as chances are fair.

 

The video only shows the start of the game so we can't really comment on where the damage came from, biggest hit again is most likely from reflect but 27k is certainly possible. The real takeaway from that video is those players simply have no idea how to cap a node, it's actually very hard to stall 2 players who know what they are doing and the difficulty goes up exponentially with each extra player. The evidence that you are providing does not help your case and again, be wary when comparing someone elses highlights to your day to day play.

 

I hope soon can post a video with my scoundrel hiting that much not from reflect, yet i agree can be from that too. And how i can kite and not die for minutes. Jug cant do that, the class i play atm. But who knows, scoundrel is not that bad and my operative healer is lovelly too.

 

I'm not sure who you were or what guild we were in together. You'll have to jog my memory on this one, I know most of the marauders who used to play 8's with me have stopped playing the game.

 

I resubed after 2-3 years, hard to recall correct the guild name, but might have been DWI (Deal with it), need to search my old pics/movies from youtube to clarify it. I miss those days.

Edited by Gingishan
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Not dps count but what he can do

 

 

 

If 3 jugs gank oper, the oper will escape. If 3 opers gank 1 jug, that jug will die. And this is not theory but axioma:p

 

 

 

Nothing is correct to the game right now and will not be, but we can eat that as long as chances are fair.

 

 

 

I hope soon can post a video with my scoundrel hiting that much not from reflect, yet i agree can be from that too. And how i can kite and not die for minutes. Jug cant do that, the class i play atm. But who knows, scoundrel is not that bad and my operative healer is lovelly too.

 

 

 

I resubed after 2-3 years, hard to recall correct the guild name, but might have been DWI (Deal with it), need to search my old pics/movies from youtube to clarify it. I miss those days.

 

I am not claiming to be a PvP god, nor am I saying that you're claiming to be the same, but I find it nice that not all classes can do everything. You say 3 juggs could not kill 1 operative, but 3 operatives can kill 1 jugg. Me personally, I do not see a problem with that. I find it fun to go into a match not knowing the team compositions and finding ways to overcome team "limitations". Sometimes you do and win, sometimes you do not, but that is joy in for me. I think PvP would be pretty boring if every class could do everything at once.

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Not dps count but what he can do

 

 

 

If 3 jugs gank oper, the oper will escape. If 3 opers gank 1 jug, that jug will die. And this is not theory but axioma:p

 

 

 

Nothing is correct to the game right now and will not be, but we can eat that as long as chances are fair.

 

 

 

I hope soon can post a video with my scoundrel hiting that much not from reflect, yet i agree can be from that too. And how i can kite and not die for minutes. Jug cant do that, the class i play atm. But who knows, scoundrel is not that bad and my operative healer is lovelly too.

 

 

 

I resubed after 2-3 years, hard to recall correct the guild name, but might have been DWI (Deal with it), need to search my old pics/movies from youtube to clarify it. I miss those days.

 

You're falling into the classic trap here. You can't just arbitrarily compare strengths from one class or spec and then claim another is weak because it doesn't have those traits.

 

Operative is a +/- 100% class. They are either 100% defence or 100% offence. If operatives are rolling and spamming HoTs they have no damage, if they're dpsing they have no defence in the GCD.

 

You can agree with me that if I said operatives should have enraged defence or god bubble they'd be overpowered, you're literally arguing juggs should have the same defensive capabilities and movement of operatives to make it "fair". You can't cherry pick the strengths of individual classes and then claim imbalance when your class doesn't match those strengths. It's so stupid that I even have to explain this.

 

I have no idea who you are, who you were, what guild we were in, but you're unwilling to share your toon name so I'm going to go ahead and doubt you know me at all or spent any time playing with me. Based on what you've been typing so far you'd never have passed an application process I put in place so please stop insinuating you "know me very well".

 

Learn to play vs operatives, it's really not hard. The off node game is weak AF right now because no one understands it, I can 100% assure you 2 good players are virtually impossible to stall for any significant duration. In ranked days 30s was my target and if I nailed that I was very happy.

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I have no idea who you are, who you were, what guild we were in, but you're unwilling to share your toon name so I'm going to go ahead and doubt you know me at all or spent any time playing with me. Based on what you've been typing so far you'd never have passed an application process I put in place so please stop insinuating you "know me very well".

 

You are free to believe what u want. Some names will not be spelled again, since i play a diferent account from the original and is better so. I will give u 1 hint tho: Reality Check, the guild u have been too. Only guild able to stand and beat Nostrum Dolus, until it disbanded so badly, players quiting to play.

PS: Have fun my friend. Hope one day i will return and play swtor with the same pleasure i did in RC guild or DWI. But for now, i am stil on wow (played since 2004).

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You're falling into the classic trap here. You can't just arbitrarily compare strengths from one class or spec and then claim another is weak because it doesn't have those traits.

 

Operative is a +/- 100% class. They are either 100% defence or 100% offence. If operatives are rolling and spamming HoTs they have no damage, if they're dpsing they have no defence in the GCD.

 

You can agree with me that if I said operatives should have enraged defence or god bubble they'd be overpowered, you're literally arguing juggs should have the same defensive capabilities and movement of operatives to make it "fair". You can't cherry pick the strengths of individual classes and then claim imbalance when your class doesn't match those strengths. It's so stupid that I even have to explain this.

 

I have no idea who you are, who you were, what guild we were in, but you're unwilling to share your toon name so I'm going to go ahead and doubt you know me at all or spent any time playing with me. Based on what you've been typing so far you'd never have passed an application process I put in place so please stop insinuating you "know me very well".

 

Learn to play vs operatives, it's really not hard. The off node game is weak AF right now because no one understands it, I can 100% assure you 2 good players are virtually impossible to stall for any significant duration. In ranked days 30s was my target and if I nailed that I was very happy.

 

Snave it is good to see you here, still after all these years. :p

 

This is off-topic, I am just curious are you still playing and are you still making videos?

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Snave it is good to see you here, still after all these years. :p

 

This is off-topic, I am just curious are you still playing and are you still making videos?

 

Yes, he play from time to time, as i do atm. Good players are not engaged anymore 100% to the game. I wonder why? But devs do?

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Perfect diagnosis, my friend. The game is dying, i am moving away to another, entering here to see new posts from time to time, just not to let this topic die before they read it:mad:

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The Stuns and Shields on Sniper/Operative side are absolutely ridiculous in comparison to other classes. So yup I agree. Not A Wonder this game is dying.

 

They have revamp tools but they do not use it. It seems they buff specific classess for those who dedicated themselfs to streaming, like a publicity. Pay to win tactic will doom one day Bioware and i will wait that gladly. After so many years i find KOTOR 1 and 2 such fun to play comparing with this game. So i let my force flow there and my serenity here, since i do not care anymore. Just the hunt&ghost tactic.

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Snave it is good to see you here, still after all these years. :p

 

This is off-topic, I am just curious are you still playing and are you still making videos?

 

I keep talking about making more videos but my motivation to do them is a bit lacking, I'm still streaming PvP on twitch if you wanted to check out any gameplay and who knows, maybe I'll find the impetus to make some more videos eventually!

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