DefenderTwo Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 The fan reaction to that scene perplexes me. I see a lot of mocking her for just being over the top (and her troops' reactions kind of show they think so, too) or just Evil, but seriously: she's within the last day been betrayed and shot by SCORPIO, imprisoned and tricked by ARIES, manipulated by the Commander (she may not know about that, though), and now this lowly worm of a droid shoots her in the back? I'm pretty sure I'm reasonably sane and of mild temperament, but after all of that I would have beaten the thing down, too. The interaction between Vaylin and what she thought was Thexan was a good scene though, Vaylin can be different for those she cares about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 The interaction between Vaylin and what she thought was Thexan was a good scene though, Vaylin can be different for those she cares about. That scene, the scene where she talks to SCORPIO before she takes the throne, the bit where she and Arcann are talking about Thexan (which, again, I've seen people say "oh look how abusive she is to Arcann". Yeah, the guy who just brought up the brother who visited her that he KILLED, and she's the abusive one. But, I digress). Those were all good scenes I would have liked to have seen more of, or at least been able to react to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 That scene, the scene where she talks to SCORPIO before she takes the throne, the bit where she and Arcann are talking about Thexan (which, again, I've seen people say "oh look how abusive she is to Arcann". Yeah, the guy who just brought up the brother who visited her that he KILLED, and she's the abusive one. But, I digress). Those were all good scenes I would have liked to have seen more of, or at least been able to react to them. She was abusive to him? When he wanted Vaylin to do something he had no problem scolding her into line. Arcann is twice the tyrant Vaylin was ever shown to be. * killed his brother * bombed five planets killing millions * ordered the death of half of his Knights * kills HK55 * went on a genocidal campaign against the Scions * Betrayed Vaylin * Knew about Vaylin's conditioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 She was abusive to him? When he wanted Vaylin to do something he had no problem scolding her into line. Arcann is twice the tyrant Vaylin was ever shown to be. * killed his brother * bombed five planets killing millions * ordered the death of half of his Knights * kills HK55 * went on a genocidal campaign against the Scions * Betrayed Vaylin * Knew about Vaylin's conditioning. Yeah, all that, except I'm not sure he knew about it. He doesn't really answer the question that I can remember. And regardless of my feelings on the matter, that he used his broken and traumatized sister to do most of the other things, she did help with them. I just dislike the attitude that she was somehow worse. We are shown the atrocities Arcann commits, but told she's more brutal. We are shown the atrocities that were done to her, but he's the one we're able to bring back. It makes me scratch my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Yeah, all that, except I'm not sure he knew about it. He doesn't really answer the question that I can remember. And regardless of my feelings on the matter, that he used his broken and traumatized sister to do most of the other things, she did help with them. I just dislike the attitude that she was somehow worse. We are shown the atrocities Arcann commits, but told she's more brutal. We are shown the atrocities that were done to her, but he's the one we're able to bring back. It makes me scratch my head. I can't recall what he says in the dark side version but Vaylin calls him a liar before battling him. So it could be possible he knew. Yeah, it's odd. Vaylin was conditioned into the way she thinks by brutal means after being abandoned by Senya, where as Arcann just struck me as a privileged brat with daddy issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 The procedure on Voss ... do you think that would have worked for Vaylin? I don't fully understand what the Voss did for Arcann, unless he bumped his head, I don't recall him ever having any form of mental damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) The procedure on Voss ... do you think that would have worked for Vaylin? I don't fully understand what the Voss did for Arcann, unless he bumped his head, I don't recall him ever having any form of mental damage? Well, Senya sang "wash away your hate". It may have done exactly that. Personally, I don't care for that: he had justification for his hate. If he'd just directed it better, say, by siding with the Outlander against his real enemy, hate was reasonable. But, then, this is Star Wars, and he's got the Force, so we know what that leads to. Plus, that's something we've never seen before, the ability to save someone that's fallen by throwing the Force at him. I prefer the idea that Valkorion messed with his mind, and that it repaired damage, just like mending physical wounds. Then everything about it, including his acceptance by most of the Alliance, makes more sense. In that case, I think you can guess what my problem with that was. Going to Nathema would then pull the metaphorical sutures loose. Or, it was outright brainwashing. I don;t think it was intended to be, but if it was, it means that Arcann can live because he's brainwashed, while Vaylin must die because she freed herself of same. I dislike that interpretation quite a lot. The imagery seemed too much like Vaylin's to me, and the whole Nathema will undo it as though it was a Charm Person spell running into an Anti Magic Shell (apologies for the D&D ref), to completely discount that, sadly. I'll take Theory #2, Monty. Even though it means that maybe it could have helped Vaylin, given the chance. "I feel the good in him" is a story point I can accept, "I feel no good in her" is not one. Edited May 30, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkanenoobie Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) Arcann was a terrible villain, basically had to be told to do everything. Got told where Asylum was by the Scions before he'd actually get off his arse. Had to be told where Odessan was before he'd do anything about it. I mean it's well and good saying he's done all of these terrible things but we never see any of it. The worst we get is him telling Vaylin to have the Knights pair off and fight to the death. That's it. Otherwise he sat around doing nothing, even while the Outlander was on his planet wrecking up the place. Even after he lost the entire treasury on that ship he didn't seem to care. It was Vaylin who had all of the actual ideas and emotion of the two of them. Vaylin would say they should do something and Arcann would just say 'nah, can't be bothered'. He was a terrible leader and villain. While soon as Vaylin's in charge she's already tracked Senya and Arcann to Voss and begun bombing and invading the planet. Sure, we don't exactly know the timeskip but can't have been that long. Atleast was shown she was proactive in her evil. Edited May 31, 2018 by arkanenoobie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Someone said the time between kotfe and kotet was six months, but I'm not sure if that's true or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Someone said the time between kotfe and kotet was six months, but I'm not sure if that's true or not. I'm pretty sure that's right. I believe they mention it in Chapter 1 of KotET, but I can't find it at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I'm pretty sure that's right. I believe they mention it in Chapter 1 of KotET, but I can't find it at the moment. I hate the time gaps, six months and all we know is Vaylin tracked down some rogue knights to Ord Mantell and killed them. There was so much potential for KOTET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) I hate the time gaps, six months and all we know is Vaylin tracked down some rogue knights to Ord Mantell and killed them. There was so much potential for KOTET. Yeah, me too. All to set up events that are now being swept away, kind of. If it weren't for certain characters that I've grown attached to, I'd almost have preferred it if the Zakuul story didn't happen at all with the way it's ultimately turned out. As it is, it's a near thing. I mean, I still enjoy KotFE and to some extent the first five and ninth chapter of KotET (at least, once Vaylin is on my side), as long as I ignore how things turned out (Vaylin shouting, "Mother!" at the empty vault is endlessly entertaining as long as I willfully ignore her ultimate fate, for example), but several things outside of those just dull my enthusiasm. Vaylin, obviously, but Koth not having a real appearance since he might be dead (even though Arcann has had several) is probably second. The companions that are still gone is right up there, along with the ones that aren't having so little to do, too. Edited May 31, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Yeah, me too. All to set up events that are now being swept away, kind of. If it weren't for certain characters that I've grown attached to, I'd almost have preferred it if the Zakuul story didn't happen at all with the way it's ultimately turned out. As it is, it's a near thing. I mean, I still enjoy KotFE and to some extent the first five and ninth chapter of KotET (at least, once Vaylin is on my side), as long as I ignore how things turned out (Vaylin shouting, "Mother!" at the empty vault is endlessly entertaining as long as I willfully ignore her ultimate fate, for example), but several things outside of those just dull my enthusiasm. Vaylin, obviously, but Koth not having a real appearance since he might be dead (even though Arcann has had several) is probably second. The companions that are still gone is right up there, along with the ones that aren't having so little to do, too. Do you think they forgot about Koth? Maybe they'll do an alert for Koth, Senya, Blue haired lady, Vaylin and anyone else people like in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Do you think they forgot about Koth? I don't think they forgot him, and they can't get to everyone, I get that, but not even having an appearance in Nathema Conspiracy is just such an odd choice. I mean, he can be anywhere from dead to being romanced, just like Arcann, and had a stronger reason to be involved, so I don't get it. And if they couldn't get his VA, he could have still been there in the background, like you said. Maybe they'll do an alert for Koth, Senya, Blue haired lady, Vaylin and anyone else people like in the future? That's the dream. I thought the Alliance Alerts were one of the good ideas. I'd like to be able to hide missions I don't want to do, though. Hope we get something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 That's the dream. I thought the Alliance Alerts were one of the good ideas. I'd like to be able to hide missions I don't want to do, though. Hope we get something. Despite our characters not 'speaking', that would be better than the two minute reunions. Take my money Bioware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Despite our characters not 'speaking', that would be better than the two minute reunions. Take my money Bioware! Seriously. I love the fully voiced scenes, but if at this point they don't have the resources to bring in all possible PC's for them I'd prefer a more intricate story. It's a balancing act, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Seriously. I love the fully voiced scenes, but if at this point they don't have the resources to bring in all possible PC's for them I'd prefer a more intricate story. It's a balancing act, I'm sure. What was it one of them said in the live stream? They didn't want to bring her back from no where? ( or something like that) I'm fine with her falling out a hole in the plot-space-time continuum, though I will admit, I am curious to know if I can throw Lana into it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I don't think they forgot him, and they can't get to everyone, I get that, but not even having an appearance in Nathema Conspiracy is just such an odd choice. I mean, he can be anywhere from dead to being romanced, just like Arcann, and had a stronger reason to be involved, so I don't get it. And if they couldn't get his VA, he could have still been there in the background, like you said. That's the dream. I thought the Alliance Alerts were one of the good ideas. I'd like to be able to hide missions I don't want to do, though. Hope we get something. Wasn't the writer who wrote the Nathema Conspiracy the same one that is bias towards Arcann? so it's no wonder Arcann got a cameo. They could of had other LI's in Odessen scene. Yeah, I liked them too. I wouldn't mind them doing some more as a way to introduce characters the players like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Wasn't the writer who wrote the Nathema Conspiracy the same one that is bias towards Arcann? so it's no wonder Arcann got a cameo. They could of had other LI's in Odessen scene. Yeah, I liked them too. I wouldn't mind them doing some more as a way to introduce characters the players like. Just gimme our beloved Zakuulan Empress and I'll retreat back to the dark side of the internet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) Wasn't the writer who wrote the Nathema Conspiracy the same one that is bias towards Arcann? so it's no wonder Arcann got a cameo. They could of had other LI's in Odessen scene. Yeah, I liked them too. I wouldn't mind them doing some more as a way to introduce characters the players like. Yeah, same writer. The Arcann romance was hers, and she was primary on KotET Chapter 6, Dragon's Maw. I have Views about that, but I'll be good and leave it at that. I don't want to repeat myself too often, and it wasn't entirely bad. Hopefully they'll let the alerts continue. I mean, I understand the whole "I already have too many companions" view, but there are a few specific ones I'd still like. Obviously. Edited May 31, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheaca Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Hey there. In what year would you say Vaylin was born? The whole timeline with the age of Vaylin, the twins, the Treaty of Coruscant etc. is such a mess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Hey there. In what year would you say Vaylin was born? The whole timeline with the age of Vaylin, the twins, the Treaty of Coruscant etc. is such a mess... No idea, I would guess she's a few years younger than Arcann and Thexan so ... somewhere in her mid or late 20's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 No idea, I would guess she's a few years younger than Arcann and Thexan so ... somewhere in her mid or late 20's? Vaylin looked like she was 6 When Arcann and Thexan looked 10-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Other than the time gaps between the expansions there isn't much to go on time wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Vaylin looked like she was 6 When Arcann and Thexan looked 10-12 Unless we have a date to go on, it'll be endless speculation. All we know is Vaylin is younger than Arcann and Thexan atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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