DefenderTwo Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 the difference between flashpoint boss Valss and Vinn? they actually gave good backstory, motivation and personality to Vinn in one flashpoint... Vinn's motivation and story was well done. I would have liked to have seen more of him, maybe he was at Odessen fight side by side with Vaylin? Maybe he was the Horizon Guard she choked on her ship while arguing with the Outlander? Valss, I don't know, I'm still struggling to work out his allegiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 So what do you think happened to Vaylin when we zapped her with the Holocron? Do you think she is now the occupant of Valkorion's Holocron like Lord Dramoth was? or is she stuck in our minds awaiting Nahut's light to lead her onto our companion lists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) So what do you think happened to Vaylin when we zapped her with the Holocron? Do you think she is now the occupant of Valkorion's Holocron like Lord Dramoth was? or is she stuck in our minds awaiting Nahut's light to lead her onto our companion lists? I like the idea that she's in the holocron and, during the fight with her and Arcann as companions, she was projecting herself back into your mind along with Arcann (who is either outside and alive or in the holocron at that point, too). Then she just stayed there. It doesn't require any re-writing of "she can't jump bodies", satisfies the "she's too undisciplined to be a Force ghost", and we've already seen that it can do that specific thing without adding new powers to it. In that case, it's not so much that it "cleansed" or "freed" her, which was always weird, but simply that she is no longer in the Outlander's mind and therefore Valkorion can no longer control her. It happens to make her return plausible (just a coincidence, I assure you) without disturbing anything at all of what has already happened, and more, makes elements in that chapter make more sense. Edited May 24, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 In that scenario, if she is inside the Holocron ... what would happen if say we zapped her body (or someone else's) ? What about a Nathema daily area? I see that popping up every now and then on suggestions, maybe a Vaylin companion through that somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 What about a Nathema daily area? I see that popping up every now and then on suggestions, maybe a Vaylin companion through that somehow? Vaylin companion through a reputation? Hit Champion and use Nathema's healing properties to heal Vaylin? Both spiritually and physically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Story wise ... it might be hard to buy ... but ... meh ... I've been struggling to keep track ever since Darth Marr decided to take a nap when we were talking to Valkorion. We'll just say Nathema did it and leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 I guess they could one line it away. Other than Valkorions influence? Did we discover or has it been hinted at as to why Nathema is going through a rapid growth spurt? I don't know much about botany, but I'm sure it would take a lot longer for the trees and plants to form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheaca Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 I guess they could one line it away. Other than Valkorions influence? Did we discover or has it been hinted at as to why Nathema is going through a rapid growth spurt? I don't know much about botany, but I'm sure it would take a lot longer for the trees and plants to form. They hinted that because Valkorion was dead and his life energy had returned to things he fed upon, things were changing quickly on Nathema. The Force is involved here, it is not mere botany. I'd say the Force is quickly puting things back to former Nathema/Meedrias normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 They hinted that because Valkorion was dead and his life energy had returned to things he fed upon, things were changing quickly on Nathema. The Force is involved here, it is not mere botany. I'd say the Force is quickly puting things back to former Nathema/Meedrias normal. Could that be argued for people too? He did fed on Vaylin's spirit (And Arcann if you went dark side) Maybe she (they) have been rejuvenated too? (Assuming Arcann's body survived Vaylin bombing her palace.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) Could that be argued for people too? He did fed on Vaylin's spirit (And Arcann if you went dark side) Maybe she (they) have been rejuvenated too? (Assuming Arcann's body survived Vaylin bombing her palace.) Especially if Vaylin were still hanging around in one of the ways we've mentioned: her body is revitalized by this, but only returns because her spirit is still here. In that case,I don't think Arcann would, he seemed during the execution like he might just let go, but Vaylin seemed upset about the whole deal. Or, his body is gone, like you said. After all, we already had a choice with him. So, no miraculous return for the people of Ziost or Nathema (can you imagine the fan reaction if they did that?), no undoing of our decision to kill Arcann if that's where we went, and giving us a real choice on Vaylin's fate in a one-time deal. I'm good with it. Edited May 25, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) Could that be argued for people too? He did fed on Vaylin's spirit (And Arcann if you went dark side) Maybe she (they) have been rejuvenated too? (Assuming Arcann's body survived Vaylin bombing her palace.) If all of the life essence Valkorion has absorbed over his run is being released and seemingly bringing life back to Nathema, I guess you could argue for it to effect people too, Vaylin was his last victim, so I suppose it's not to far out there to imagine. Heh, I suppose you could argue it would work on Theron too if you left him to die next to the Zildrog computer. Especially if Vaylin were still hanging around in one of the ways we've mentioned: her body is revitalized by this, but only returns because her spirit is still here. In that case,I don't think Arcann would, he seemed during the execution like he might just let go, but Vaylin seemed upset about the whole deal. Or, his body is gone, like you said. After all, we already had a choice with him. So, no miraculous return for the people of Ziost or Nathema (can you imagine the fan reaction if they did that?), no undoing of our decision to kill Arcann if that's where we went, and giving us a real choice on Vaylin's fate in a one-time deal. I'm good with it. She did seem interested in making choices for herself ... If she did heal through whatever means, it could mean she's running around in the forests of Odessen. Edited May 25, 2018 by Paulsutherland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Especially if Vaylin were still hanging around in one of the ways we've mentioned: her body is revitalized by this, but only returns because her spirit is still here. In that case,I don't think Arcann would, he seemed during the execution like he might just let go, but Vaylin seemed upset about the whole deal. Or, his body is gone, like you said. After all, we already had a choice with him. So, no miraculous return for the people of Ziost or Nathema (can you imagine the fan reaction if they did that?), no undoing of our decision to kill Arcann if that's where we went, and giving us a real choice on Vaylin's fate in a one-time deal. I'm good with it. We don't know what happened to the people of Nathema, as for the Ziost population, they were turned to dust, but with Vaylin we still (presumably) have her body intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 We don't know what happened to the people of Nathema, as for the Ziost population, they were turned to dust, but with Vaylin we still (presumably) have her body intact. It could also be that simple, that she returns simply because her body is there and theirs aren't. I'm good with that, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 It could also be that simple, that she returns simply because her body is there and theirs aren't. I'm good with that, too. It could work for both sides too (LS/ DS) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) It could also be that simple, that she returns simply because her body is there and theirs aren't. I'm good with that, too. It could work for both sides too (LS/ DS) Yeah, it could work for both sides. Edited May 25, 2018 by DefenderTwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 The chalice from the palace has the brew that is true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 So in order to get Vaylin we need to find the painting of the fallen madonna with the big *******? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 The chalice from the palace has the brew that is true! 'Allo Allo' was hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Does that mean Lana will have the flying helmet and the wet celery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Theron can have the coo-coo clock! On topic: Even if her body has decayed like Nathema, you could argue this life force has restored, what she would do? maybe flee in confusion? attack anyone or thing she could find? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Theron can have the coo-coo clock! On topic: Even if her body has decayed like Nathema, you could argue this life force has restored, what she would do? maybe flee in confusion? attack anyone or thing she could find? Theron ruined the Alliance .. he'll have to find a way to ay for the damage he caused. If it can restore a planet, why not a body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkanenoobie Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 I would be happy with just more passive aggressive flirting options in conversations with her to be honest. It does seem she somewhat has the hots the Outlander though i don't think that's ever really explored anywhere. It seemed like she was kind of flirting with you the first few times you meet her but then after that it's dropped completely. Vaylin was the only character i really felt sorry for, she's been abused, lied too and used through her entire life, always felt rejected for things she had no control over. No wonder she went off the deep end really. Inside she was just a scared little girl lashing out at a world that rejected her. I forever wanted to give her a hug even if she was constantly acting like a petulant child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 I would be happy with just more passive aggressive flirting options in conversations with her to be honest. It does seem she somewhat has the hots the Outlander though i don't think that's ever really explored anywhere. It seemed like she was kind of flirting with you the first few times you meet her but then after that it's dropped completely. Vaylin was the only character i really felt sorry for, she's been abused, lied too and used through her entire life, always felt rejected for things she had no control over. No wonder she went off the deep end really. Inside she was just a scared little girl lashing out at a world that rejected her. I forever wanted to give her a hug even if she was constantly acting like a petulant child. I got the impression she was flirting with us during the Asylum chapter with the 'You've got a crush on me' line. I don't recall many of the other lines. During KOTFE, when she or Arcann referenced the Asylum I thought it was going to turn out Vaylin, was being trained in various dark side forms, then KOTET comes along and you discover she went through pure hell against her will. I would have loved an option to fight Vaylin while talking about her past on Nathema. Maybe they'll bring her back? I absolutely hope so, Vaylin was a interesting character during KOTFE and KOTET. Rerunning it now and then I feel more of a connection to Vaylin than I do for Arcann, Lana, Theron and others in the Alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 I would be happy with just more passive aggressive flirting options in conversations with her to be honest. It does seem she somewhat has the hots the Outlander though i don't think that's ever really explored anywhere. It seemed like she was kind of flirting with you the first few times you meet her but then after that it's dropped completely. Vaylin was the only character i really felt sorry for, she's been abused, lied too and used through her entire life, always felt rejected for things she had no control over. No wonder she went off the deep end really. Inside she was just a scared little girl lashing out at a world that rejected her. I forever wanted to give her a hug even if she was constantly acting like a petulant child. Yeah, she would of got a kick out of some of the things a dark sider would say. I only got that vibe when you do something or say something 'evil.' The only one I picked up on was the comment during the Asylum Battle ... are there others? Yup - the way she is described during KOTFE I thought they were going to go down a different route, but then KOTET comes along and 'BOOM' now I feel bad for Vaylin. I would have likely done the same. Yeah Heh, given the option I would have given the Alliance the middle figner and sided with Vaylin. I've so had enough of our so called 'spymasters' Lana and Theron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Yup - the way she is described during KOTFE I thought they were going to go down a different route, but then KOTET comes along and 'BOOM' now I feel bad for Vaylin. Yeah, there was some wiggle room for me in KotFE. Some sense that she might actually have a level of agency, "troubled" as she was, and simply chose to be awful. I always thought that she was meant to be a child with too much power and emotional issues, not simply evil, but I could see it the other way. Once Betrayed hit, that was over for me, and nothing in KotET changed my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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