Paulsutherland Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Well, Theron already is "ready", so... #BringBackVaylin Maybe we'll get to dispose of Lana too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 To be honest, I have no idea about this, but at least in one of the options he stays alive for 100% #BringBackVaylin They did end it in such a way it's possible Theron could have survived being stabbed and the console exploding. We didn't kill him, we just left him for dead. So we'll have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackvinils Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) Maybe we'll get to dispose of Lana too? It seems to me, if that once there was an opportunity to made something like this with Theron, then it could concern to Lana too... #BringBackVaylin Edited May 14, 2018 by Blackvinils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) Zildrog be damned, if a chance to dispose of Lana should be added ... she's gone! Vaylin can have the honour of killing the incompetent Sith spy! Edited May 14, 2018 by Paulsutherland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheaca Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 They did end it in such a way it's possible Theron could have survived being stabbed and the console exploding. We didn't kill him, we just left him for dead. So we'll have to wait and see. We should know better than leave someone for dead. Last time should have been a lesson. Not that I'm complaining... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 We should know better than leave someone for dead. Last time should have been a lesson. Not that I'm complaining... When we get our beloved Empress back, we'll tell her Senya is using some holographic technology again ... and that folks is how we'll win the new war! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackvinils Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 When we get our beloved Empress back, we'll tell her Senya is using some holographic technology again ... and that folks is how we'll win the new war! Not so much brute force, how many with cunning - I like such approach!! #BringBackVaylin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Think Vaylin (or Arcann) will be annoyed to know some Zakuulan clowns have taken control of her home world and declared Zakuul an independent planet? If Zakuul thinks it's suffered in the past, I'll introduce a new shade of fear to their planet the moment I get Vaylin back!... or I'll find the 'Silencer' and fire that at the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackvinils Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) Think Vaylin (or Arcann) will be annoyed to know some Zakuulan clowns have taken control of her home world and declared Zakuul an independent planet? If Zakuul thinks it's suffered in the past, I'll introduce a new shade of fear to their planet the moment I get Vaylin back!... or I'll find the 'Silencer' and fire that at the planet. Then first, shot of the "Silencer" on the glass ball with the throne, still in it has no sense anymore :D:D However, Zakuul still has a fairly developed technology and more resources to re-build a military capability. Seriously when I learned about this planet, for me it was like the Sith Empire on the maximals #BringBackVaylin Edited May 14, 2018 by Blackvinils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheaca Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Think Vaylin (or Arcann) will be annoyed to know some Zakuulan clowns have taken control of her home world and declared Zakuul an independent planet? If Zakuul thinks it's suffered in the past, I'll introduce a new shade of fear to their planet the moment I get Vaylin back!... or I'll find the 'Silencer' and fire that at the planet. Vaylin perhaps... I am not sure Arcann would care so much, except perhaps some nostalgy of his past (before everything went nuts). I always picture him as someone who did not really want to rule anyway. The only thing he wanted was to prove himself better than his father. Which he obviously clearly failed. Not even jealousy as Valky said, only revenge. But hearing that dumb dissident say that Valkorion was the emperor of a golden age and the Outlander destroyed everything, that part must sting a little. Vaylin? Depends if you want her own genuine self or a redeemed version. But I guess that you are heading for the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) Vaylin perhaps... I am not sure Arcann would care so much, except perhaps some nostalgy of his past (before everything went nuts). I always picture him as someone who did not really want to rule anyway. The only thing he wanted was to prove himself better than his father. Which he obviously clearly failed. Not even jealousy as Valky said, only revenge. But hearing that dumb dissident say that Valkorion was the emperor of a golden age and the Outlander destroyed everything, that part must sting a little. It sounds like I missed a lot while my Internet has been screwy. And Arcann did prove himself to be better than his father, but I know what you were getting at. Vaylin? Depends if you want her own genuine self or a redeemed version. But I guess that you are heading for the first. Hmm, I feel I must object to "genuine self" It's too ingrained at this point for me not to. I don't think we ever actually see that. There's just too much trauma. But I assume you mean that as in what she has been to now, not altered like Arcann was. Sorry about my random grousing. Edited May 14, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) Anyway, my view of what it would have meant to have a "redeemed" Vaylin isn't actually that different, outwardly, from what we see in the game. Maybe getting some help to cope with the trauma, but still basically violent and brutal. Probably no reconciliation with her family if alive, or if there is, it's over a long time. Rolling her eyes and disapproving of a merciful Commander, but going along with it because they saved her, freed her, trusted that any of that might work out. Like Arcann, given a chance after a beat down. Maybe some slight sign of guilt, eventually, but still wild and laughing at the pain of her enemies. I think the drastic change mostly worked for Arcann, with some provisions (it was too quick, and the ritual and its symbolism bother me), I don't think it would be right with her. Maybe something like the old companion stories where they come to accept the PC even if they don't agree with the PC. I also would have loved to keep both her and Arcann alive. I don't like "LS get Redeemed Arcann, DS get Vaylin". Aside from feeling that an LS character might show Vaylin mercy, I also think a DS character might want Arcann around in his still corrupted state. Plus, I'd love to see Arcann "I can't be redeemed, but I'll try to do good" Tirall interacting with Vaylin "Redemption? Pffft." Tirall as the Odd Couple. Arcann: Sister, have you gained weight? Vaylin: It's fun fat. I still fit my robes. Arcann: I don't have any fun fat. Vaylin: You don't have any fun, either. Arcann: Vaylin, no! Vaylin: Vaylin, yes! No real chance of any of that, of course. So it goes. I'll take my non-story companion and be happy to get her, if we even get that. Edited May 14, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackvinils Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) Anyway, my view of what it would have meant to have a "redeemed" Vaylin isn't actually that different, outwardly, from what we see in the game. Maybe getting some help to cope with the trauma, but still basically violent and brutal. Probably no reconciliation with her family if alive, or if there is, it's over a long time. Rolling her eyes and disapproving of a merciful Commander, but going along with it because they saved her, freed her, trusted that any of that might work out. Like Arcann, given a chance after a beat down. Maybe some slight sign of guilt, eventually, but still wild and laughing at the pain of her enemies. I think the drastic change mostly worked for Arcann, with some provisions (it was too quick, and the ritual and its symbolism bother me), I don't think it would be right with her. Maybe something like the old companion stories where they come to accept the PC even if they don't agree with the PC. Well, I think Vaylin could become as "redeemed" as less chaotic, in terms of the dark side, something like DS Jaesa. No real chance of any of that, of course. So it goes. I'll take my non-story companion and be happy to get her, if we even get that. Yup, bonus non-story companion, under every circumstances, on regard to her - the best and most optimal option. #BringBackVaylin Edited May 14, 2018 by Blackvinils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) Well, I think Vaylin could become as "redeemed" as less chaotic, in terms of the dark side, something like DS Jaesa. In DS Jaesa's case, we make her that way, so it's harder to imagine an LS character doing that. I assume that the character that gets DS Jaesa is probably going to act in ways she approves of, unless at some point they reform or something. I can see either ending up with Vaylin, the DS because they appreciate her as she is, the LS because they're merciful. But, yeah, pretty much that. Like Kaliyo, also: still an awful person, seriously awful, but willing to put up with someone that isn't and even be a close friend or love interest. Yup, bonus non-story companion, under every circumstances, on regard to her - the best and most optimal option. #BringBackVaylin Yeah, I think it's a shame that it's the best we can hope for, but I'm still hoping for it. Edited May 14, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackvinils Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 In DS Jaesa's case, we make her that way, so it's harder to imagine an LS character doing that. I assume that the character that gets DS Jaesa is probably going to act in ways she approves of, unless at some point they reform or something. I can see either ending up with Vaylin, the DS because they appreciate her as she is, the LS because they're merciful. But, yeah, pretty much that. Like Kaliyo, also: still an awful person, seriously awful, but willing to put up with someone that isn't and even be a close friend or love interest. Yeah, I think it's a shame that it's the best we can hope for, but I'm still hoping for it. Oh, I really wish things would have happened differently, but things are irretrievably ruined so much:mad::mad::mad: Tthat at least it's better to bring her back in that way. #BringBackVaylin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheaca Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 It sounds like I missed a lot while my Internet has been screwy. And Arcann did prove himself to be better than his father, but I know what you were getting at. Oh I definitely think he did a crappy job. Even more if considering the point of view of Zakuul inhabitants, like Vinn Atrius, who see only the visible effects of Valkorion's leadership. That is one of the main points I believe that my main character could argue about with Arcann: the fact that some of what Valkorion did was still quite smart and not so damaging. She might want to bring a shield with her when they have this discussion... Hmm, I feel I must object to "genuine self" It's too ingrained at this point for me not to. I don't think we ever actually see that. There's just too much trauma. But I assume you mean that as in what she has been to now, not altered like Arcann was. Sorry about my random grousing. Ahah, I knew I should not oversimplify the writing of my thoughts. So it was meant to be read as "the self we have seen so far". But yes, she has been under too much trauma to be considered as totally herself. The trailer shows a very cute and enthusiastic little girl who changes afterwards, we do not know what part of those changes have been influenced by Valkorion (thinking about the training with the knights, mainly). But it would be hard to consider that Arcann has been influenced and she has not, she has been much more influenced by her father than her brother. Anyway, my view of what it would have meant to have a "redeemed" Vaylin isn't actually that different, outwardly, from what we see in the game. Maybe getting some help to cope with the trauma, but still basically violent and brutal. Probably no reconciliation with her family if alive, or if there is, it's over a long time. Rolling her eyes and disapproving of a merciful Commander, but going along with it because they saved her, freed her, trusted that any of that might work out. Like Arcann, given a chance after a beat down. Maybe some slight sign of guilt, eventually, but still wild and laughing at the pain of her enemies. The trailer shows a lively girl who might be of the impulsive type, I think that this is part of her core. Which does not mean it is bad, but it is something hard to deal with. And if she is that way in her core, then yes, she cannot be totally changed neither, she would remain impulsive, therefore potentially violent/brutal even potentially not willingly. I think the drastic change mostly worked for Arcann, with some provisions (it was too quick, and the ritual and its symbolism bother me), I don't think it would be right with her. Maybe something like the old companion stories where they come to accept the PC even if they don't agree with the PC. What symbolism in the ritual do you talk about, I'm interested. I also would have loved to keep both her and Arcann alive. I don't like "LS get Redeemed Arcann, DS get Vaylin". Aside from feeling that an LS character might show Vaylin mercy, I also think a DS character might want Arcann around in his still corrupted state. Plus, I'd love to see Arcann "I can't be redeemed, but I'll try to do good" Tirall interacting with Vaylin "Redemption? Pffft." Tirall as the Odd Couple. I must admit that I even tend to cringe when someone speaks about LS Arcann. For is not LS, he has been cleansed from darkness, not stuffed with light like a turkey. In my opinion he could still toggle on one side or the other very easily. And a slightly less angry Vaylin could become a funny companions, close to Kaliyo. (And a headache for the commander ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) Arcann: Sister, have you gained weight? Vaylin: It's fun fat. I still fit my robes. Arcann: I don't have any fun fat. Vaylin: You don't have any fun, either. Arcann: Vaylin, no! Vaylin: Vaylin, yes! Vaylin: I want to blow something up! Outlander: Let's bomb Zakuul! Arcann: But they're our friends ... Vaylin: Bomb Zakuul! Lana: [Long winded speech about why bombing Zakuul is bad.] Arcann: [Long winded speech about redemption.] *On the ship* Vaylin: What did they say? Outlander: I don't know .... I normally hit the space bar whenever Lana talks. C2-N2: Why do I look like a training dummy? Edited May 14, 2018 by Paulsutherland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackvinils Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) Vaylin: I want to blow something up! Outlander: Let's bomb Zakuul! Arcann: But they're our friends ... Vaylin: Bomb Zakuul! http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/hd2mbf9.jpg Lana: [Long winded speech about why bombing Zakuul is bad.] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dc1_leyWsAEmphl.jpg Arcann: [Long winded speech about redemption.] https://pp.userapi.com/c836339/v836339333/11f25/kEybTj9tylM.jpg *On the ship* Vaylin: What did they say? Outlander: I don't know .... I normally hit the space bar whenever Lana talks. C2-N2: Why do I look like a training dummy? Let's bomb Republic too!:D:D #BringBackVaylin Edited May 14, 2018 by Blackvinils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) What symbolism in the ritual do you talk about, I'm interested. During the Betrayed trailer, we get the wonderful image of Vaylin getting treated to a group of chanting people until she opens her eyes and they've gone yellow. Then, we get a much too similar for my tastes scene of Arcann with a group of chanting people until his eyes turn blue. With Senya talking about "wash away your hate", it just seems as though both are altering their minds to be something they weren't before. It felt that both were, in that moment, basically being brainwashed. Then, she breaks free of hers, supposedly (the fact that she still reacts the way she does makes me think she didn't, not really), and has to die for it, while he succumbs to it, and so can live. These days, I just view him as having been under similar controls that we just weren't shown, damaged like she was, so it was the damage that was being healed rather than literally purging him of the hate I feel he had earned by having Valkorion for a "father". It makes it better. But my initial reaction to it is still hanging around. That still leaves us with why not try similar with her, but I can accept that she never really gave us a chance. I just dislike the idea that they seem to push in various ways that she deserved it rather than that she just needed to be stopped and it was the only way. Especially considering how her brother is treated in the narrative, it just leaves me grumpy. Edited May 14, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Let's bomb Republic too!:D:D #BringBackVaylin Outlander: We're going to bomb Coruscant! Lana: But we sided with the Republic on Iokath! Outlander: Yeah ... I know ... that was a mistake ... now we're going to attack Coruscant! Vaylin: So many dead bodies! Arcann: Are you sure this is wise, Commander? Senya: Maybe we shouldn't be talking about this with the Republic agent in the room. Dorna: Yeah ... you forgot I was here didn't you? Outlander: Who are you?! Dorna: *sighs* Vaylin: Want me to snap her neck?! Lana: Commander! Why did you side us with the Republic if you're now planning to attack the Republic?! Outlander: I don't know! Why did you bring us back here when you knew we had to go to Nathema?! Vaylin: You're a bad spy! HK-51: Question: Can we murder yet? HK-55: Answer: Yes! *Points at C2-N2* C2-N2: Oh my! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Anyway, my view of what it would have meant to have a "redeemed" Vaylin isn't actually that different, outwardly, from what we see in the game. Maybe getting some help to cope with the trauma, but still basically violent and brutal. Probably no reconciliation with her family if alive, or if there is, it's over a long time. Rolling her eyes and disapproving of a merciful Commander, but going along with it because they saved her, freed her, trusted that any of that might work out. Like Arcann, given a chance after a beat down. Maybe some slight sign of guilt, eventually, but still wild and laughing at the pain of her enemies. I think the drastic change mostly worked for Arcann, with some provisions (it was too quick, and the ritual and its symbolism bother me), I don't think it would be right with her. Maybe something like the old companion stories where they come to accept the PC even if they don't agree with the PC. I also would have loved to keep both her and Arcann alive. I don't like "LS get Redeemed Arcann, DS get Vaylin". Aside from feeling that an LS character might show Vaylin mercy, I also think a DS character might want Arcann around in his still corrupted state. Plus, I'd love to see Arcann "I can't be redeemed, but I'll try to do good" Tirall interacting with Vaylin "Redemption? Pffft." Tirall as the Odd Couple. Well if Vaylin thought you were fun and as crazy as her, she may not need a conversation. If you vision your character like her in regards to power and crazy, the two of you could go together quite well. The DS/LS way of looking at it is what I expected from KOTET, but I suppose you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) I don't think your alignment to the force would matter, so long as you can handle Vaylin ... obviously I think the dark side would have a much easier time with this. Edited May 14, 2018 by Paulsutherland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackvinils Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) I don't think your alignment to the force would matter, so long as you can handle Vaylin ... obviously I think the dark side would have a much easier time with this. Yeah, for that opportunity, to get her as a companion, I even have all my characters of the Republic will accept the Dark Side of the Force (but only, when bonus Chapter be realized, otherwise I have no motivation to re-walkthrough KOTFE\TET + I'm not going to kill Vaylin, without hope of her returning, at least in the bonus non-story Chapter) (P.S. Only Dark Side! Only Hardcore!) #BringBackVaylin Edited May 14, 2018 by Blackvinils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) I don't think your alignment to the force would matter, so long as you can handle Vaylin ... obviously I think the dark side would have a much easier time with this. Easier, yes. I think where I am at the moment is that, since they can't go back and re-do the dialog choices I would have liked to have had, even if those lead to her death (trying to treat her with compassion and she spits it in my face type of deal), I'd just like her back for both. But if I'm going to have to make a couple of DS choices, I'd still do it with some of my people, and will do with all of them if it's a DS choice without consequences. Edited May 14, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 (edited) Yeah, for that opportunity, to get her as a companion, I even have all the characters of the Republic will fall into the Dark Side of the Force (but only, when bonus Chapter be realized, otherwise I have no motivation to re-walkthrough KOTFE\TET + I'm not going to kill Vaylin, without hope of its return, at least with the bonus non-story Chapter) (P.S. Only Dark Side! Only Hardcore!) #BringBackVaylin I've got no motivation to redo KOTFE/ET now ... I'm not subjecting myself to another round of the Lana&Theron show just go say the same things I did when KOTET first came out. I'm at the point, I just want these two gone ... if Vaylin wants to snap there necks if and when she should return ... all the better. Edited May 14, 2018 by Paulsutherland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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