Paulsutherland Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 For the story it came from: Vaylin survived the fight after being shot and fled into the Odessen wilderness with a giant flying monster. They got on well. The Alliance lost when they went after Valkorion, followed by Senya and Arcann doing so and him barely escaping. Mainly going to respond about the family: Well, most of that would have been if the story had been better, which would include that Arcann did not know.. But, this is all moot, anyway. It's what I would have wanted the story to be if it had been different. I didn't want Arcann or Senya to give up. I wanted Vaylin to recognize that they had been hurt, too, not to the point that she would forgive them but enough that maybe she wouldn't try to kill them any more. That was always Valkorion's plan, and no one should listen to him. And, ultimately, I can handle a well-told tragedy. I really can. But when I get something like this my basic reaction is to wish that we had gotten happy endings all around, because this was just that bad. For some, that would be killing the family and siding with her. Some kill them all, or kill her and save the other two. For me, it's keeping the three of them alive and beating Valkorion to death with them. And then getting therapy for all for that nonsense he put them through, most especially Vaylin. But neither of us got what we wanted. Shame. Console time or CM is adequate to take some of the sting away. So in that story the Outlander lost the mind battle to Valkorion? Odessen has giant flying beasts?! Suddenly that anti aircraft turret looks affordable! After what Senya and Arcann did to Vaylin, I don't see why she would listen to them, even after the mind battle. As a 100,000 DS Chiss ... for me it would have been siding with Vaylin. I haven't taken any LS characters this far into the story so I don't know what they would do. Exile/Isolation on Odessen would give her plenty of time to think it over. My wallet is ready! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) After what Senya and Arcann did to Vaylin, I don't see why she would listen to them, even after the mind battle. TL'DR version: Yeah, I know, but I'd just as soon reverse anything about this story that annoys me, and that's one of them. It's rather my point, really. I reject outright their behavior. The guy who hopped off the ship in Chapter 6, calling for his troops to capture his sister, the woman that said she wouldn't leave her children to the dark: those are the characters I wanted there at the end, whatever else happened. If they had stayed true to that, and I was allowed different dialog options, I would have been less critical of this story, even if everything else had gone the same. That's how this story is SUPPOSED to go, that once they realize the damage they've done, even if most of it was actually Valkorion, that they never give up but the broken person forces the issue. And I hate even that story, but I can tolerate it, it's so common. This? Not so much. Unless they were outright hoping to sabotage the story, I don't get how they thought this was OK, even under the kind of pressure game devs get. But, again, even in the story as given, they are hurt, too. All by the same guy. Not like her, but if he wasn't meant to be abusing and manipulating the entire family, again the story becomes worse, because their behavior is that much more intolerable. I think their collective hatred of one man could allow them to bond or at least stop trying to kill one another, which is all I would have asked for. I'm all right with her letting it go after they kill him together. But I'm a sap. I could deal with family drama, with no one ever be forgiven, they all hurt one another, if this thing hadn't been so grotesque. That's reasonable, even realistic. But I'd like to see this washed away as thoroughly as possible, which for me would mean she lives, and there is a degree of reconciliation. Not "I forgive you for being the parent that left me to be abused", just "I also recognize that you tried to save me so I won't try to kill you any more." Edited April 7, 2019 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 And just because of that conversation: For Myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 And just because of that conversation: For Myself! Nice. Is this part of a comic slide? Unless they were outright hoping to sabotage the story, I don't get how they thought this was OK, even under the kind of pressure game devs get. Given what has just come up in that article, I think maybe they knew this was going to happen. So they rushed it before losing a bulk of their staff to the other studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) Nice. Is this part of a comic slide? Not this time, just a single frame that was bugging me so I asked her to draw it for me and got her several ko-fis. Them working together, even with her being the Loki of the piece, was just something I wanted. Given what has just come up in that article, I think maybe they knew this was going to happen. So they rushed it before losing a bulk of their staff to the other studio. Yeah, but some of the decisions even given that still don't make a lot of sense, sadly. But considering people were breaking down into tears according to it, who knows? Maybe the mood contributed even more than the rush. Edited April 8, 2019 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Not this time, just a single frame that was bugging me so I asked her to draw it for me and got her several ko-fis. Them working together, even with her being the Loki of the piece, was just something I wanted. Yeah, but some of the decisions even given that still don't make a lot of sense, sadly. But considering people were breaking down into tears according to it, who knows? Maybe the mood contributed even more than the rush. Nice. Anthem was in development since some point in 2012? So who knows at this point? I can understand the frustration they must have been going through if their work was constantly being thrown out. On a different subject ... have some art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Art is always good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Art is always good. Have some more then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Have some more then! And a little more. Paul's Inquisitor and my Smuggler trying to ease Vaylin into a more normal life by playing a hand of Sabacc. It does not go well. A Friendly Game of Cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 And a little more. Paul's Inquisitor and my Smuggler trying to ease Vaylin into a more normal life by playing a hand of Sabacc. It does not go well. A Friendly Game of Cards You won, so clearly that is your fault So ... Clone? Sith Spirit? Sith Voodoo? Fell onto the Falcon as it was flying through the Death Star? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 You won, so clearly that is your fault If she'd known about the Wookiee ripping the winner's arms off, she might have thought better of it. So ... Clone? Sith Spirit? Sith Voodoo? Fell onto the Falcon as it was flying through the Death Star? I'm really not sure. As far as I'm concerned, he could have stayed in the ground, I have views on the kind of villain he is, and he's too much Valkorion at this point for me to be really happy for him to come back. But, since they decided to off Snoke before he could really be anything even remotely interesting, what can you do? I'm expecting force spirit that has been advising or even corrupting Kylo in a manner similar to Obi-Wan advising Luke. It's also possible that that was the real idea behind Kylo's "I will finish what you started": Palpatine is still around and he's going to finish him off. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing no matter where it goes, myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) If she'd known about the Wookiee ripping the winner's arms off, she might have thought better of it. I'm really not sure. As far as I'm concerned, he could have stayed in the ground, I have views on the kind of villain he is, and he's too much Valkorion at this point for me to be really happy for him to come back. But, since they decided to off Snoke before he could really be anything even remotely interesting, what can you do? I'm expecting force spirit that has been advising or even corrupting Kylo in a manner similar to Obi-Wan advising Luke. It's also possible that that was the real idea behind Kylo's "I will finish what you started": Palpatine is still around and he's going to finish him off. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing no matter where it goes, myself. My subscription ran out today so this may be my last post depending on when the SWTOR site gets up to speed. That Wookie threat doesn't work once you realise their entire body is flammable! In the trailer, look at the hands of the individual reassembling Kylo Ren's helmet. No way is that Kylo ... I'm not sure it's Palpatine either but if it is ... I'd love to know how he survived the death star blast (assuming he did). Maybe Snoke was a clone of Palpatine or someone Palpatine was possessing? Edited April 16, 2019 by Paulsutherland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 In the trailer, look at the hands of the individual reassembling Kylo Ren's helmet. No way is that Kylo ... I'm not sure it's Palpatine either but if it is ... I'd love to know how he survived the death star blast (assuming he did). Maybe Snoke was a clone of Palpatine or someone Palpatine was possessing? Yeah, really not thrilled with any of that, you're probably right and he's alive again. It's not a favorite idea. Spirit I would handle better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Yeah, really not thrilled with any of that, you're probably right and he's alive again. It's not a favorite idea. Spirit I would handle better. We'll have to wait and see Though I suspect it'll be something weird like dark siders can come back from death /technobabble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeerastul Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) She needs all three, compassion healing and love. At first I didn't like her but then at a certain point in the expansions you find out what her father did to her and what he did to her in the end. When I saw that I felt sorry for her and wanted to help her, though I suppose you could say we helped her against her father in the end. Though what I was more thinking of is reaching out to her and my thought of "turning her to my side and have her join as a member and even a perm party member". You know I could be wrong but this is my thought I just see her (outbursts) especially against father who is living inside the outlander and mother as a daughter who just wants her parents to be loved etc. yet despite all of that her crying for her parents to actually love her and be there for her she still fights. I think one really good example of that she wants her parents is there's a scene in KOTFE I think, outlander finishes what they were doing on a ship. Mother and Son were there alone,Vaylin shows up. She pleads to her mother almost yelling "Why Him" and says a few things after it and you can see hurt that mother chooses her brother over her. IMO daughter just wants her mother despite all the things she's done and is upset that mother chooses brother, yet mother tries to get her daughter to join them. Edit: There are cutscenes where brother and sister talk about how basically Mother and Father ignored them there entire life, were never around etc. Maybe even jealousy from daughter that father and mother sided with the outlander (okay maybe that's stretching it) but that's what I think imo Edited April 17, 2019 by Zeerastul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanSnowWolf Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Vaylin is the most annoying character in this entire game. A complete psychopath, and that's coming from my SITH WARRIOR. The only thing she deserved was a lightsaber through the chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeerastul Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 my pure dark side sith inquisitor liked her and I RP in my head that he is secretly interested in her and doesn't see her annoying at all. She wants compassion, love and healing she had that and their wouldn't be any problems at all. I don't see how she is annoying at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveOreally Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Everything aside; how likely are we to see her come back or a change where she’s a love interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Vaylin is the most annoying character in this entire game. A complete psychopath, and that's coming from my SITH WARRIOR. The only thing she deserved was a lightsaber through the chest. Darth Nox: "From your point of view. You warriors are such brutes! You'll never understand the beauty of the dark side of the force." Everything aside; how likely are we to see her come back or a change where she’s a love interest? Low? Lower? They should focus on their overall story before diving into romances. I don't want to 'Voodoo' Vaylin just to romance her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) Vaylin is the most annoying character in this entire game. A complete psychopath, and that's coming from my SITH WARRIOR. The only thing she deserved was a lightsaber through the chest. Yeah, whatever. Complete brainwashing and mindcontrol victim, maybe. The fact that they put that in the trailer, with her surrounded by chanting people until her eyes go yellow, with her reacting badly to grown men beating on a child with sticks until she lashes out, and people like you still come in blaming her, is of constant amazement to me. They may as well have had her possessed by demons for all the agency she ever had, and then they force us to humiliate and hurt her more and you just think that's all perfectly all right. What complete nonsense. And damaging nonsense, too, this constant portrayal in media of mentally ill abuse survivors that because they are "broken" have to die. Is it so hard to understand that such a character constantly having to be the villain is a problem? I guess it must be. Her dying to defend others I could see. Her somehow "deserving" her fate is complete hogwash. Edited April 17, 2019 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) Low? Very, very low. Even people who liked her actually think it was a great story, mores the pity. To some extent that's a matter of taste, but when people with similar experiences in their lives (that is, being "troubled" as children and being abused for it, for example) express objections and the response is to dismiss them, or even to outright mock them for feeling that way, I have no real hope that anything will ever be done with this. More, I think it very likely we'll get more of the same. Note that I haven't had those experiences, but the disrespect I've seen of people who have convinces me that they'll never care. If the fans can treat real people that way, why would they care enough about a pile of pixels to want her story changed? Edited April 17, 2019 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveOreally Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Very, very low. Even people who liked her actually think it was a great story, mores the pity. To some extent that's a matter of taste, but when people with similar experiences in their lives (that is, being "troubled" as children and being abused for it, for example) express objections and the response is to dismiss them, or even to outright mock them for feeling that way, I have no real hope that anything will ever be done with this. More, I think it very likely we'll get more of the same. Note that I haven't had those experiences, but the disrespect I've seen of people who have convinces me that they'll never care. If the fans can treat real people that way, why would they care enough about a pile of pixels to want her story changed? I concur. But I’d still like to see her as something in the future. We deserve to try and save her in some way. Plus I think the journey to save her would be an awesome story to tell and play through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) I concur. But I’d still like to see her as something in the future. We deserve to try and save her in some way. Plus I think the journey to save her would be an awesome story to tell and play through. I certainly hope I'm wrong. I think it could make for some great storytelling. Edited April 17, 2019 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 I concur. But I’d still like to see her as something in the future. We deserve to try and save her in some way. Plus I think the journey to save her would be an awesome story to tell and play through. I'd have Darth Jadus 'save' her. Let her roam around with him in whatever he's been up to since departing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 I'd have Darth Jadus 'save' her. Let her roam around with him in whatever he's been up to since departing. Well, considering how Jadus treated his own daughter, I'm not sure that's a good place for her to end up. But, I can probably cope as long as when we find them Vaylin joins me and Zhorrid in killing him. Wins all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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