Fix matchmaking

[Lattervane]

Let me start by saying that I'm a founder. I've been with the game on and off since it launched. I mainly pvp and have countless hours played in regs.

 

Bioware - you REALLY need to address the absolutely horrendous matchmaking system you have for regs. It's completely random and completely obnoxious. There is no good reason why one team has 3 healers in a voidstar and the other team has none, ESPECIALLY when neither team is premade. Or when one team is primarily (4+) of the same class. Ever played against 6+ mercs, or 6+ sorcs on one team? Yeah.. it's not fun.

 

How in the actual hell can you allow your game to be like this? It creates an incredibly frustrating pvp experience. Just fix it.

[Rafiknoll]

Let me start by saying that I'm a founder. I've been with the game on and off since it launched. I mainly pvp and have countless hours played in regs.

 

Bioware - you REALLY need to address the absolutely horrendous matchmaking system you have for regs. It's completely random and completely obnoxious. There is no good reason why one team has 3 healers in a voidstar and the other team has none, ESPECIALLY when neither team is premade. Or when one team is primarily (4+) of the same class. Ever played against 6+ mercs, or 6+ sorcs on one team? Yeah.. it's not fun.

 

How in the actual hell can you allow your game to be like this? It creates an incredibly frustrating pvp experience. Just fix it.

 

Finally, a thread to address matchmaking directly instead of blaming anything else of being OP. Indeed matchmaking will solve most of the problems in regs.

 

Just a correction for the title though. "FIX matchmaking" sounds as if there is an existing broken system, which gives BioWare too much credit. Maybe "add matchmaking" or "create matchmaking"?

[merovejec]

Let me start by saying that I'm a founder.

 

So you noticed only now?

 

Jokes aside, there is no matchmaking in regs, noly in unranked. They probably can introduce it but it may cause longer que times as its a bit more suffisticated when you have 8 players. What would be the aim? Classes, specs? 4 dps 2 heals 2 tanks? 6 dps 1 tank 1 heal? 2 sentinels 2 Commandos 2 Shadows 2 Sages?

 

I dont thing there is something that can be done here.

[Aeneas_Falco]

This game could definitely use some basic matchmaking. One upon a time the argument against it was that the population wasn't there to support it, and it was a valid argument when we had servers like Jung Ma or Prophecy of the Five that were practically dead. After the merge however the population is healthy enough on every server that that it could support basic matchmaking.

 

Matchmaking could also be conditional where the system tries to maintain a balance between evenly sorted teams and fast queue times. Why not have a system where matchmaking happens when there is enough people in the queue to support it and when it is an odd hour where the server is light, the system instead prioritizes faster queue pops? It wouldn't be perfect but it would be a lot better than what we have now.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Aeneas_Falco

[MackPol]

So you noticed only now?

 

Jokes aside, there is no matchmaking in regs, noly in unranked. They probably can introduce it but it may cause longer que times as its a bit more suffisticated when you have 8 players. What would be the aim? Classes, specs? 4 dps 2 heals 2 tanks? 6 dps 1 tank 1 heal? 2 sentinels 2 Commandos 2 Shadows 2 Sages?

 

I dont thing there is something that can be done here.

 

Well to start they can make sure that if 2 healers que then they get put on the opposing teams rather then randomly putting 2 H in one team and 0 on the other as it often happens atm. Same with tanks. Just this small change would make a difference. Same could be done for classes, if 2 Mercs que then split them unless its a premade.

They dont have to introduce systems that waits for certain amount of H or T to que, just take whatever there is and attempt to make balanced teams out of it. If there is only one healer in que at the time then so be it, only one team gets H. This would help with quality of games and wouldnt affect pops.

Edited February 12, 2018 by MackPol

[Rafiknoll]

Well to start they can make sure that if 2 healers que then they get put on the opposing teams rather then randomly putting 2 H in one team and 0 on the other as it often happens atm. Same with tanks. Just this small change would make a difference. Same could be done for classes, if 2 Mercs que then split them unless its a premade.

They dont have to introduce systems that waits for certain amount of H or T to que, just take whatever there is and attempt to make balanced teams out of it. If there is only one healer in que at the time then so be it, only one team gets H. This would help with quality of games and wouldnt affect pops.

 

Exactly this.

 

For H1 being the number of healers on one side and H2 number of healers on the other side: H1 - H2 <= 1.

And same for tanks. And if 1T and 1H in total are in queue, dont put them on the same team.

 

It will also not be too complicated to make the gear average of all both sides as close to equal as possible. It is the same number of players, so it will just add some ms to the time it takes to generate a match, which is unoticable. Harm to queue times only happens if certain composition of 16 men arent accepted, which isn't the case in these suggestions.

 

The only problems preventing this from working are:

1. Premades: Assuming that a premade has 2 healers and they are the only healers in queue, it will result in imbalance.

Solution: either these premades won't get pops unless a sufficient number of roles is in queue to oppose them or forbid queuing premades with more than 1 healer or 1 tank. Both are quite fair when considering the entire community and not selfishly focusing on those who like to play with their friends and won't settle for less than the normal advantages of premades and just gotta use 2 healers or 2 tanks...

2. Faction role/gear imbalance. 2 healers might be in rep queue while none are in the empire.

Solution: cross faction all maps. People have been asking for it for ages...

[Mournblood]

....and not selfishly focusing on those who like to play with their friends....

 

You do realize this an MMO, right? The basic premise of which is....oh, I don't know...playing with your friends. But by all means, go with that idea to prevent friends/guildmates from grouping together and see how fast this game withers and dies.

 

For those who are new to this topic, the reason there are no matchmaking mechanics in place is because it would require a cross-server queue system which Bioware stated years ago they would not do. I could go into detail to explain why you can't have one without the other, and why we're already past the point of no return to implement it due to being below the necessary population density to effectively support it, but I've already done that in a half-dozen other related threads posted on this topic and I'm tired of explaining it.

 

Suffice it to say, the reality is no matter how many of these threads are created, it's not possible to introduce matchmaking unless this game experiences some kind of miraculous player base growth. So your options are either don't queue solo and expect good things to happen, or find some friends/guildmates to group up and queue with.

[Cherepk]

Healer, mara for now situation is so awful as OP stated. Need matchmaking. Edited February 12, 2018 by Cherepk

[yellow_]

Just a correction for the title though. "FIX matchmaking" sounds as if there is an existing broken system, which gives BioWare too much credit. Maybe "add matchmaking" or "create matchmaking"?

^^^^^^^^

 

and bumping thread, the devs should see at least one "add matchmaking to warzones" thread everytime they take a peek at this board

[-Bob-]

Devs don't know how to code for this.

That is literally irrefutable.

[Stellarcrusade]

I agree that match proper match making would make PvP more fun for more people. Unfortunately the fact is, all standard MMO's are designed to be all about the face-roll. All efforts will be to maintain and continue the face-roll. Match-making is the opposite of that, and so will never be properly implemented. Asking MMO development to make fair PvP wars is like asking a tiger to become a vegetarian, it goes against every thread of their being. And why? Well its common wisdom, and what most every MMO has failed to realize, is that IT IS WRONG. The first MMO to put proper matchmaking in, will eventually own PVP in the gaming universe.

 

What I mean by proper matchmaking: This DOESN'T mean having 1 healer on each team. That's just rediculous and would take away from the dimension of the game. I mean both sides having nearly equal as much skill and success. So if a 4 man uber-veteran premade queues, and everyone else in the queue are pugs with terrible win stats, that premade will be split up and placed half on each side.

 

Imagine PvP where you have as close as possible even teams on both sides almost every war? It is hard to conceptualize this because they tell us it is too hard to implement. Which is a lie.

[Kurj]

/signed

[Schoock]

/signed

[Rafiknoll]

You do realize this an MMO, right? The basic premise of which is....oh, I don't know...playing with your friends. But by all means, go with that idea to prevent friends/guildmates from grouping together and see how fast this game withers and dies.

 

1. Gaming community as a whole > those who go premade, which are a mere part of it. Regardless:

2. I am not a politician, you don't get to cut what I say to make it sound more extreme. I was refering to "those who like to play with their friends and won't settle for less than the normal advantages of premades and just gotta use 2 healers or 2 tanks...". If you already have a premade grow some sense of honor and don't stack healings...

 

For those who are new to this topic, the reason there are no matchmaking mechanics in place is because it would require a cross-server queue system which Bioware stated years ago they would not do. I could go into detail to explain why you can't have one without the other, and why we're already past the point of no return to implement it due to being below the necessary population density to effectively support it, but I've already done that in a half-dozen other related threads posted on this topic and I'm tired of explaining it.

 

Suffice it to say, the reality is no matter how many of these threads are created, it's not possible to introduce matchmaking unless this game experiences some kind of miraculous player base growth. So your options are either don't queue solo and expect good things to happen, or find some friends/guildmates to group up and queue with.

 

Wrong. The matchmaking system suggested here can match any possible 16 players immediately, which means the population size doesn't matter. All it does is to control the role distribution (top priority), and gear distribution (second priority). It is a pure sorting algorithm which happens AFTER the top 16 in the queue were decided to get matched, the number of players in queue isn't more relevant than it currently is.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Rafiknoll

[Rafiknoll]

Devs don't know how to code for this.

That is literally irrefutable.

 

The algorithm is in fact very simple:

1. Pick 16 players from the top of the PVP queue and pick a map (That - they already do. So it is easy to see the population is no factor. The matchmaking is done within the selected 16, not from the whole queue. The selection is kept as simple as before).

2. Assign healers one by one to each group, one goes to group A, next goes B, 3rd goes A and so on. Prioritize healer assignment according to gear rating.

3. Assign tanks to each group one by one, starting this time with the group B [that means that if there is an odd number of healers, the 1st group to get a tank (therefore the group which can possibly get more tanks) is the group which has 1 less healer - B. In case of an even number, it is just so that the gear advantage will not be solely possessed by one group]

4. Assign DPS to the groups one by one, prioritized by gear (or alternatively burstiness, M/R, defensives, stealth or whatever makes a DPS spec better than another DPS spec), starting with the group which has less overall healers+tanks, and in case there is an even number, starting with the group with the currently lower gear average.

 

If they can't think of the algorithm, it is amusing, because they were able to code much more complicated stuff such as the game itself, but now that I wrote the algorithm if they can't translate this to however they code it would be a new level of incompetence...

Edited February 12, 2018 by Rafiknoll

[VaeVictis]

The algorithm is in fact very simple:

1. Pick 16 players from the top of the PVP queue and pick a map (That - they already do. So it is easy to see the population is no factor. The matchmaking is done within the selected 16, not from the whole queue. The selection is kept as simple as before).

2. Assign healers one by one to each group, one goes to group A, next goes B, 3rd goes A and so on. Prioritize healer assignment according to gear rating.

3. Assign tanks to each group one by one, starting this time with the group B [that means that if there is an odd number of healers, the 1st group to get a tank (therefore the group which can possibly get more tanks) is the group which has 1 less healer - B. In case of an even number, it is just so that the gear advantage will not be solely possessed by one group]

4. Assign DPS to the groups one by one, prioritized by gear (or alternatively burstiness, M/R, defensives, stealth or whatever makes a DPS spec better than another DPS spec), starting with the group which has less overall healers+tanks, and in case there is an even number, starting with the group with the currently lower gear average.

 

If they can't think of the algorithm, it is amusing, because they were able to code much more complicated stuff such as the game itself, but now that I wrote the algorithm if they can't translate this to however they code it would be a new level of incompetence...

 

Healer leaves before match starts. Now do you go one short hoping another healer queues or take the first available body? Because if it's the latter...queues as DPS, leaves and respecs, requeues as healer.

 

Also queues nekkid and puts on BiS after joining WZ. I mean if I know I'm going to be punished with inferior teammates because I took the time to gear up...

[kissingaiur]

Healer leaves before match starts. Now do you go one short hoping another healer queues or take the first available body? Because if it's the latter...queues as DPS, leaves and respecs, requeues as healer.

 

Also queues nekkid and puts on BiS after joining WZ. I mean if I know I'm going to be punished with inferior teammates because I took the time to gear up...

 

You do realize that even if that healer left and a dps took their place the match would be extremely more balanced then it is currently? Any attempt to matchmake is irrefutably better then having none at all. That’s the point.

 

I don’t care if it’s a little off because a player leaves verse having none at all and having to sit through games with 6 support classes on one team and zero on the other.

[Kurj]

You do realize that even if that healer left and a dps took their place the match would be extremely more balanced then it is currently? Any attempt to matchmake is irrefutably better then having none at all. That’s the point.

 

I don’t care if it’s a little off because a player leaves verse having none at all and having to sit through games with 6 support classes on one team and zero on the other.

 

Thank you, logic. I never know what to think when I see it appear in a thread.

[Aeneas_Falco]

You do realize this an MMO, right? The basic premise of which is....oh, I don't know...playing with your friends. But by all means, go with that idea to prevent friends/guildmates from grouping together and see how fast this game withers and dies.

 

 

If matchmaking were implemented it would have to affect premades as wel, since otherwise premading can render any matchmaking irrelevant. Making a premade with two skanks and two healers wait until there is a similar amount of tanks and healers available for the other team would be entirely fair, and it would benefit the most amount of players by giving them a functional matchmaking system, even if it meant the premade with two tanks and two healers had to wait a bit longer to get a pop.

 

Players would still be free to group with one another. If they didn't want to wait longer in the queue it would just behove them to queue with a balanced set of specs including DPS instead of going the tryhard route of two tanks and two healers, which is usually an "I win" button that near completely eliminates the possibility of a competitive match in the current system where matchmaking does not exist. Let's face it...people who queue with two tanks and two healers aren't doing it because they just happen to be friends who play those specs, they are doing it to gain a hefty advantage in a system with no matchmaking. They do it because they know the other team is likely to have less healing and guard, if any at all.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Aeneas_Falco

[Rafiknoll]

Healer leaves before match starts. Now do you go one short hoping another healer queues or take the first available body? Because if it's the latter...queues as DPS, leaves and respecs, requeues as healer.

 

Also queues nekkid and puts on BiS after joining WZ. I mean if I know I'm going to be punished with inferior teammates because I took the time to gear up...

 

It is not 200% foolproof, it doesn't have to be. It can't counter AFKs and throwers, and can't counter teamspeakers and noobs. But given fair circumstances with relatively equally skilled and intelligent who won't try to go out of their way to abuse the system it will work quite well, and in case some people DO behave as you suggest it won't be worse than the current way it works.

If BioWare created the matchmaking in this exact way but DIDN'T release the details, it would take people time to figure it is related to gear, or to whatever else they relate it to (gear was just a possible semi-priority within specs, it can be anything else) and exploit it.

 

And I truly rather believe that the majority of mismatches today is caused by innocent people who would rather have a fair match but got 3 healers in the group and not morons who try to abuse the system to get easy matches... This solves the problem caused by the nice guys, bad people (not bad players, some good players are bad people and vise versa) will always find way to exploit system, doesn't mean the system isn't a good idea.

[Aeneas_Falco]

It is not 200% foolproof, it doesn't have to be. It can't counter AFKs and throwers, and can't counter teamspeakers and noobs. But given fair circumstances with relatively equally skilled and intelligent who won't try to go out of their way to abuse the system it will work quite well, and in case some people DO behave as you suggest it won't be worse than the current way it works.

If BioWare created the matchmaking in this exact way but DIDN'T release the details, it would take people time to figure it is related to gear, or to whatever else they relate it to (gear was just a possible semi-priority within specs, it can be anything else) and exploit it.

 

And I truly rather believe that the majority of mismatches today is caused by innocent people who would rather have a fair match but got 3 healers in the group and not morons who try to abuse the system to get easy matches... This solves the problem caused by the nice guys, bad people (not bad players, some good players are bad people and vise versa) will always find way to exploit system, doesn't mean the system isn't a good idea.

 

That is definitely the case. You could see it when Yavin was popping so often that it made up 75% of the matches. You'd not infrequently have one team with all the guard and healing and the other without, despite the tanks and healers coming from opposite factions.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Aeneas_Falco

[RooRider]

Let me start by saying that I'm a founder.

 

I'm sorry, but anything you say after that line has zero credibility. Every single player (and I do mean every single player) who uses the "Founder" tag, or emphasizes they have been playing since beta etc. are absolutely trash at this game.

[Foambreaker]

Let me start by saying that I'm a founder. I've been with the game on and off since it launched. I mainly pvp and have countless hours played in regs.

 

Bioware - you REALLY need to address the absolutely horrendous matchmaking system you have for regs. It's completely random and completely obnoxious. There is no good reason why one team has 3 healers in a voidstar and the other team has none, ESPECIALLY when neither team is premade. Or when one team is primarily (4+) of the same class. Ever played against 6+ mercs, or 6+ sorcs on one team? Yeah.. it's not fun.

 

How in the actual hell can you allow your game to be like this? It creates an incredibly frustrating pvp experience. Just fix it.

 

After matchmaking it will be 3 Sorc + 3 Mercs against 3 Sorc + 3 Mercs and everything will be better...

[Foambreaker]

I'm sorry, but anything you say after that line has zero credibility. Every single player (and I do mean every single player) who uses the "Founder" tag, or emphasizes they have been playing since beta etc. are absolutely trash at this game.

 

It shows he is insecure about his opinion...

[Schoock]

I'm sorry, but anything you say after that line has zero credibility. Every single player (and I do mean every single player) who uses the "Founder" tag, or emphasizes they have been playing since beta etc. are absolutely trash at this game.

 

He does make a valid complaint, though.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Schoock