HK-55 false advertising as of 01/07/18

[Ratajack]

I doubt it - I've never seen nearly the amount of people asking for Shae, Ranos, etc. as for HK-55. Even the other droid companion you get from that chapter, Zoom - has anyone been asking for her even in this thread? Nope.

 

Then maybe you missed them. There have been numerous threads asking for all of the past subscriber rewards to be made available again, using almost any conceivable justification, including the existence of Z0-0M and her being tied to that bonus chapter.

 

Also remember that unlike the others, HK-55 is a character/companion that EVERYONE has for a portion of the story, that currently is taken away from all players but is only given back to some. In that light, it's not that much different than people pleading to bring back a vanilla companion that is still lost.

 

It has already been shown how even those that did not qualify to have HK-55 as a permanent companion can "Cheese the system" and have HK-55 as a companion, even after his part in the story has concluded.

 

Does that get you access to the mission that returns HK-55 or to the HK-55 bonus chapter? No, but it DOES give people a chance to retain HK-55, even if that does mean "cheesing the system" and having to "cheese the system" every time they add new content.

 

Johnny having to go back and restart a chapter every now and then seems like a small price to pay to have a companion that he KNOWS he did NOT meet the criteria to receive.

[DuchessKristania]

I think the reason there is more interest in HK-55 is because he was a companion you actually ran with for a period of the story. He played a part. The other companions really are just bonus comps which is why I actually don't care if they are made available or not. With the others I can actually agree with not giving them again, even Shea. You don't ever actually run with her as a companion. HK-55 is a different story in my mind. At one point everyone has him. So with him, it's a matter of wanting to get something back that you already had but was taken away.

 

From what I've looked at the legal language does not negate the possibility of BW using previous rewards in future promotions. If they choose to do this and a person meets the criteria they have earned the reward the same as anyone else. That's just how it works. Now, I think they should distinguish between first gen and second gen rewards and that something else should be available if someone already has it but at the end of the day it's BW that makes the choice.

 

I think regardless of the side you fall on we can all agree that sub rewards need to come back and people should be given the opportunity to earn new rewards.

[Ratajack]

There really aren't a lot of threads about not getting the other rewards, are there? Every now and then I see someone asking how to get Shae or Master Ranos, but nobody's going on about it. Nico, Shae, Master Ranos, Darth Hexid now...none of them have had the same level of interest as HK-55, and IMHO that's entirely because it's a story chapter that could be played. It's not about the 'thing' for many players; it's about playing that bit of story.

 

For many, it is ONLY about the "thing", as evidenced by the numbers of people unwilling to even consider reskinned, renamed versions of past subscriber rewards.

 

In addition, do you really think that if BW were to make HK-55 available again, and gave all those who actually MET the criteria to receive HK-55 during the initial promotion a set of HK-55 armor, let alone a set of HK-55 XP boost armor, that the froums would not blow up with all the crying about that armor not being available to everyone?

[DuchessKristania]

For many, it is ONLY about the "thing", as evidenced by the numbers of people unwilling to even consider reskinned, renamed versions of past subscriber rewards.

 

In addition, do you really think that if BW were to make HK-55 available again, and gave all those who actually MET the criteria to receive HK-55 during the initial promotion a set of HK-55 armor, let alone a set of HK-55 XP boost armor, that the froums would not blow up with all the crying about that armor not being available to everyone?

 

May I ask you a question? Please don't read angry or dismissive intent, I'm genuinely trying to understand this. Why do the threads expressing interest in something seem to be such a sticking point for you? No matter what suggestion is made you bring up how people will post in the forums about wanting it. You also continue to use dismissive language concerning those threads, ie "crying and whining". Why is this such a problem for you? I mean, doesn't that make the fact that you have it and they don't more satisfying? What would be the point in it being exclusive if no one wanted it? I'm just trying to figure out why there's such a reaction to people voicing an interest. If they do bother you why do you read them? It just really seems to be a sticking point as far as this topic goes and I don't get it.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Then maybe you missed them. There have been numerous threads asking for all of the past subscriber rewards to be made available again, using almost any conceivable justification, including the existence of Z0-0M and her being tied to that bonus chapter.

 

Doing a random search for HK-55, Shroud of Memory vs. Shae Vizla or some of the others yields very different results.

 

It has already been shown how even those that did not qualify to have HK-55 as a permanent companion can "Cheese the system" and have HK-55 as a companion, even after his part in the story has concluded.

 

Does that get you access to the mission that returns HK-55 or to the HK-55 bonus chapter? No, but it DOES give people a chance to retain HK-55, even if that does mean "cheesing the system" and having to "cheese the system" every time they add new content.

 

...which pretty much negates any arguments that HK-55 is in any way EXCLUSIVE or a BONUS or anything else. Everyone has him and can run with him. Thus, it should not be a big deal for everyone to get him back permanently. He's not exclusive. He never was.

[CrazyCT]

...which pretty much negates any arguments that HK-55 is in any way EXCLUSIVE or a BONUS or anything else. Everyone has him and can run with him. Thus, it should not be a big deal for everyone to get him back permanently. He's not exclusive. He never was.

 

Yeah, cause exploiting is a valid reason for giving people a reward.

[CrutchCricket]

*sigh*

 

Why has this thread slipped back into the same unproductive retreads of complaining about complaining, or tirades about criteria and so on? We know where that road leads.

 

For the person asking about HK vs Shae or Ranos or whoever, I don't think the amount of threads on each is the right metric. The debate is more fundamental than that. For me, or those supporting the return of these shinies, the arguments are in favor of all of all of them returning at a fair price or fair conditions for re-acquisition. Those opposed tend to categorically oppose the return of any of these, regardless of who or what. And usually it doesn't matter what a thread starts out as, it will always develop into a debate about the rewards as a whole since either side will bring up "what about [other shiny]" or some users will start from the categorical position already.

 

Also, it seems obvious to me that the way to curb so called follow up requests for an item is to create a sustainable repeatable system of gaining the item in the first place. I think ideas towards that are more productive than just rehashing the same old fights. Fair discussion is finally open. Let's see what we can come up with.

[DuchessKristania]

*sigh*

 

Why has this thread slipped back into the same unproductive retreads of complaining about complaining, or tirades about criteria and so on? We know where that road leads.

 

This.

 

The thread had actually moved to a productive conversation about finding a fair-minded middle ground. Actual, logical solutions were being proposed. We need that type of conversation to happen on the forums. If we want the dev team to communicate with us, to hear our ideas and requests we need to present them in a rational and constructive manner. I still hold to the idea that there is a middle ground that can work for everyone. It does not have to be one way or no way.

 

We don't have to agree on every point but we can have a discussion and find areas in which we DO agree.

[Ratajack]

This.

 

The thread had actually moved to a productive conversation about finding a fair-minded middle ground. Actual, logical solutions were being proposed. We need that type of conversation to happen on the forums. If we want the dev team to communicate with us, to hear our ideas and requests we need to present them in a rational and constructive manner. I still hold to the idea that there is a middle ground that can work for everyone. It does not have to be one way or no way.

 

We don't have to agree on every point but we can have a discussion and find areas in which we DO agree.

 

If, by "fair minded middle ground", you mean a way that those who KNOW they did NOT meet the criteria to receive those past subscriber rewards can have them anyway, then there really is NO "fair minded middle ground", IMO.

 

You can call it what you want, but that is really is just "let me have what I want even though I KNOW that I did NOT meet the criteria to receive it for no reason other than I want it".

 

 

If you fail a test at school, do you expect the teacher to give you a "second chance" to earn an "A" on that test? After all, anyone who actually earned an "A" on that test when it was given would still have their "A", right?

 

If you don't meet a production goal for a given month and miss out on the bonus for that month at work, do you expect the boss/company to give you a "second chance" to meet that production goal for that month and gain that bonus? After all, it wouldn't affect the bonus that anyone who actually met the production goal received, right?

 

If you didn't get a limited edition game systems, would you expect the producer of those game systems to make more of those limited edition game systems so you could have a "second chance" to have one? After all, it wouldn't affect how any of those "first run" game systems worked if you had one, right?

 

Now, if you want to have a productive discussion about "fair minded" alternative subscriber reward systems GOING FORWARD, that is another matter entirely.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Ratajack

[IoNonSoEVero]

Yeah, cause exploiting is a valid reason for giving people a reward.

He's a regular companion for six chapters of KOTFE. He appears in your main characters list and gets influence points and factors into the main storyline. Everyone has him for those six chapters of the story, don't they? That's not an exploit. He's there. How can anyone say that a companion is somehow exclusive and if everyone has him for nearly 50% of KOTFE?!

 

This makes him different from any other 'subscriber reward.' You don't have Zoom or Nico or Shae as a temporary companion, right?

 

I don't cheese the story to return him, myself, because I like actually being able to replay KOTFE chapters, and because I want him back for real. But the fact that players CAN get him back that way hammers home that he is not and never has been a companion exclusive to a select group of subscribers.

[IoNonSoEVero]

*sigh*

 

Why has this thread slipped back into the same unproductive retreads of complaining about complaining, or tirades about criteria and so on? We know where that road leads.

 

For the person asking about HK vs Shae or Ranos or whoever, I don't think the amount of threads on each is the right metric. The debate is more fundamental than that. For me, or those supporting the return of these shinies, the arguments are in favor of all of all of them returning at a fair price or fair conditions for re-acquisition. Those opposed tend to categorically oppose the return of any of these, regardless of who or what. And usually it doesn't matter what a thread starts out as, it will always develop into a debate about the rewards as a whole since either side will bring up "what about [other shiny]" or some users will start from the categorical position already.

.

 

The thing about HK vs. the others, for me, anyway, is that there are missions attached to HK. It's not about the companion itself; it's about content that's currently being withheld because a group of subs wants to feel special.

 

Along with that, HK-55 WAS a main story comp, which makes him drastically different than any of the others. Asking for the return of a companion you actually had is much different than asking for something that you never had. You can get any of your dead or unreturned companions back at the terminal IIRC, except him.

 

I think these are two reasons HK-55 is a special case that does deserve contemplation from the devs.

[DuchessKristania]

Anyway, I for one, would be fine with re-skinned replicas or something like that that would distinguish secondary releases from original releases. I would enjoy playing the chapter and would pay cc to get the chance. I think most of us agree that there is a middle ground, or at least a starting point that we can built on.

 

I think most of the people here are actually willing to consider that there's more than one way to do things and in the spirit of productive conversation that's where my focus is best served. I am interested in hearing ideas from both sides of the coin as long as those ideas and opinions are expressed without being demeaning to anyone. I think if we could find a common ground it's something that could benefit the game in general. I like this game, I like playing it and I like a lot of the people I meet here so I'm interested in seeing what we as a community can come up with.

 

So, round two of ideas, what have ya got?

Edited January 20, 2018 by DuchessKristania

[LordArtemis]

You can call it what you want, but that is really is just "let me have what I want even though I KNOW that I did NOT meet the criteria to receive it for no reason other than I want it".

 

Stop presenting silly and fallacious premises Ratajack. It is beneath you.

 

I dont understand why you are behaving this way....quite a few of the folks I used to know pretty well, community icons have really started acting rather odd lately.

 

So let me respect you enough to treat you like an adult and be completely frank with you.

 

I don't care how you feel about this when it comes to game health. IF this can bring back players I will gladly do it, and perhaps cause you quite a bit of distress doing so, and I will not have any concern about your misgivings.

 

The games health comes first. You are one of what I find is likely very few. You simply do not represent enough people for me to consider your viewpoint when making a decision such as this.

 

If you dont like this suggestion, suggest a viable alternative. Present one that had the same draw this one had, and I will gladly focus on that.

 

The best path for all involved is a vehicle that will draw in old players using current assets already in the game, one that will not malign those that have received that reward and/or content in the past...so pick one.

 

Otherwise I will continue to push for this and ignore your concerns.

Edited January 21, 2018 by LordArtemis

[PennyAnn]

If, by "fair minded middle ground", you mean a way that those who KNOW they did NOT meet the criteria to receive those past subscriber rewards can have them anyway, then there really is NO "fair minded middle ground", IMO.

 

You can call it what you want, but that is really is just "let me have what I want even though I KNOW that I did NOT meet the criteria to receive it for no reason other than I want it".

 

 

If you fail a test at school, do you expect the teacher to give you a "second chance" to earn an "A" on that test? After all, anyone who actually earned an "A" on that test when it was given would still have their "A", right?

 

If you don't meet a production goal for a given month and miss out on the bonus for that month at work, do you expect the boss/company to give you a "second chance" to meet that production goal for that month and gain that bonus? After all, it wouldn't affect the bonus that anyone who actually met the production goal received, right?

 

If you didn't get a limited edition game systems, would you expect the producer of those game systems to make more of those limited edition game systems so you could have a "second chance" to have one? After all, it wouldn't affect how any of those "first run" game systems worked if you had one, right?

 

Now, if you want to have a productive discussion about "fair minded" alternative subscriber reward systems GOING FORWARD, that is another matter entirely.

 

So why not make new criteria that people can meet to get that reward? If they meet it now, give them the reward. It's not like you did something super special that can happen only one time. Why be so stingy as to not allow someone else the chance to pay sub money to buy this reward just like you did? The game could use the income, frankly.

 

A good teacher absolutely gives a student another chance to succeed and learn the material they are teaching, because the end goal is the learning, not "getting an A the first time or you're punished for life".

 

A good company would absolutely give you another chance to increase your productivity and earn a bonus because the end goal is increased productivity for the company, not "be productive this month only or get out".

 

Thanks to Amazon, plenty can purchase "first edition" copies of things after the fact. On top of this, if a company needed money as badly as Bioware/EA does for this game, it might be really smart to do so. I'd love to see them choose a smart money maker to help support development in this game over being petty and stingy, like you are being about a reward that is just pixels FFS.

 

I'm pretty sure though that you aren't willing to be "fair minded" here, and no discussion with you about this topic would be productive, because you are determined to defend your opinion with far fetched examples that don't really even apply here - even against the best and most fair idea in the world. But by all means, please prove me wrong about this.

Edited January 21, 2018 by PennyAnn

[Asmodesu]

I am a big no to old sub rewards being brought back a second time. However I believe they need new stuff that is similar or better that everyone can have a chance to get. Including maybe a new story-but-not-story chapter for a 6 month+ undropped subscriber reward again. The past year has been so boring and lacking content wise, and we've had no sub rewards that I remember so even subbing was a "why do I bother".

 

Brand New content for rewards, not old stuff brought around again and pretending to be new. We've already had these as sub rewards, give us brand new stuff to the same quality/type or better to sub for or else the people who already met the requirements have zero reason to sub as well.

 

edit: and no I do not have all the sub rewards, not by a long shot but I've never begged for the ones I missed as disappointed I am about missing out on Nico's gear I prefer new stuff to getting old again.

Also "vintage" tags don't work, seeing as the original Shae already gets a labelled vintage armour set for her on recruitment, need a different name or a reskinned comp.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Asmodesu

[ivanhedgehog]

Alternatively, Fay Zivla and Rico Okarr could be the companions that those player who "get them now" would receive.

 

That would allow that distinction between when the companions were earned.

 

works for me..they could call them larry, moe and shirley for all I care

[DuchessKristania]

I am a big no to old sub rewards being brought back a second time. However I believe they need new stuff that is similar or better that everyone can have a chance to get. Including maybe a new story-but-not-story chapter for a 6 month+ undropped subscriber reward again. The past year has been so boring and lacking content wise, and we've had no sub rewards that I remember so even subbing was a "why do I bother".

 

Brand New content for rewards, not old stuff brought around again and pretending to be new. We've already had these as sub rewards, give us brand new stuff to the same quality/type or better to sub for or else the people who already met the requirements have zero reason to sub as well.

 

edit: and no I do not have all the sub rewards, not by a long shot but I've never begged for the ones I missed as disappointed I am about missing out on Nico's gear I prefer new stuff to getting old again.

Also "vintage" tags don't work, seeing as the original Shae already gets a labelled vintage armour set for her on recruitment, need a different name or a reskinned comp.

 

Well, I think if, (and this is a giant, huge, hypothetical if,) if they recycle old rewards they should be brought back alongside something new for those who have already received the old ones. I agree that it would be pretty frustrating and disappointing to be offered a subscriber award that you already have. I think that's a pretty legitimate concern and reason to not support old returns. I may not fully agree, but I do see where you're coming from.

[Asmodesu]

Well, I think if, (and this is a giant, huge, hypothetical if,) if they recycle old rewards they should be brought back alongside something new for those who have already received the old ones. I agree that it would be pretty frustrating and disappointing to be offered a subscriber award that you already have. I think that's a pretty legitimate concern and reason to not support old returns. I may not fully agree, but I do see where you're coming from.

 

Sadly my faith in the dev team is so low I believe if they thought bringing out an old sub reward was fine they would not bother at all to make something new for those who already have it.

Best case scenario I'd go for is old sub reward + new sub reward and people can receive both of them if they missed the first/old reward as a little bonus so we avoid people saying they'd prefer the new one if they don't have the old rather then the old etc. If that makes sense. But I wouldn't want them to make a habit of this, for the HK recruitment chapter, or the one time alliance alert mission companions? sure, bring them back alongside another one. They brought Hexid out as a different requirements reward so we could end up with both if qualifying for both but the DvL event was something very different to a sub reward.

 

I would have hugely preferred what other mmo's do , a sub reward for every certain time period of a sub (3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 2 years etc) rather then this current "sub on this date or bad luck" stuff.

[DuchessKristania]

I would have hugely preferred what other mmo's do , a sub reward for every certain time period of a sub (3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 2 years etc) rather then this current "sub on this date or bad luck" stuff.

 

I wholeheartedly agrree with you on this one! It's a better option for the health of the game.

[LordArtemis]

Other folks have probably pointed this out, but I am going to do so anyway.

 

Again....I am open to alternatives. But here are two logical points that I believe can NOT be disputed.

 

1) Bioware did not promise exclusivity, especially considering they have done exactly that in the past. They promised a reward for meeting the criteria put forth.

 

2) You gained exclusivity when you received the rewards. You had these rewards long before anyone else did if this is offered again. So you had exclusive access for a period of time....and even THAT was not promised, but is the case none the less.

[Asmodesu]

I wholeheartedly agrree with you on this one! It's a better option for the health of the game.

 

Not just for future health of game, but they can retroactive it since your account tracks every single transaction/purchase and code redemption, as well as this being a great way for them to throw all time limited sub rewards into somewhere every subscriber can earn them as well as adding new stuff. So they can do their time limit thing, then throw them later on after that release as a next tier of subscription time (total) bonus, or part of another tier.

 

Say sub for 12 months total, not needing to be recurrent/not missing a month and get Hk repair chapter+the Zo-0m? story chapter to play as HK etc for example. Have the companions like Nico, Shae etc and their gear at 3 month, 8 month, 1 year w/e.

 

Still I sit with not bringing old time limit stuff back as "new" time limit stuff... I'd prefer brand new content for that to make them far more tempting for all subscribers old and new rather then just a few possible new ones. Nothing to do with exclusivity, I'd lvoe a different way for others to recieve the old stuff but keep the "sub at this date for this reward" as brand new rewards, not old ones so it caters to tempting every player, not just some.

But this Idea total sub period reward tier system is my other option I'd agree with instead for letting others who missed out get the old bonus content.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Asmodesu

[ivanhedgehog]

Not just for future health of game, but they can retroactive it since your account tracks every single transaction/purchase and code redemption, as well as this being a great way for them to throw all time limited sub rewards into somewhere every subscriber can earn them as well as adding new stuff. So they can do their time limit thing, then throw them later on after that release as a next tier of subscription time (total) bonus, or part of another tier.

 

Say sub for 12 months total, not needing to be recurrent/not missing a month and get Hk repair chapter+the Zo-0m? story chapter to play as HK etc for example. Have the companions like Nico, Shae etc and their gear at 3 month, 8 month, 1 year w/e.

 

Still I sit with not bringing old time limit stuff back as "new" time limit stuff... I'd prefer brand new content for that to make them far more tempting for all subscribers old and new rather then just a few possible new ones. Nothing to do with exclusivity, I'd lvoe a different way for others to recieve the old stuff but keep the "sub at this date for this reward" as brand new rewards, not old ones so it caters to tempting every player, not just some.

But this Idea total sub period reward tier system is my other option I'd agree with instead for letting others who missed out get the old bonus content.

 

I am waiting for them to make a companion to reward those that buy a certain amount of cartel coins. they will do it sooner or later.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Other folks have probably pointed this out, but I am going to do so anyway.

 

Again....I am open to alternatives. But here are two logical points that I believe can NOT be disputed.

 

1) Bioware did not promise exclusivity, especially considering they have done exactly that in the past. They promised a reward for meeting the criteria put forth.

 

2) You gained exclusivity when you received the rewards. You had these rewards long before anyone else did if this is offered again. So you had exclusive access for a period of time....and even THAT was not promised, but is the case none the less.

 

They already lost a buttload of subs over the kotfe monthly content release, with no group content, and no new raids. The population took a nosedive, since all people would do, is sub for a month and get all the chapters then go back to preferred (which was a stupid move on BW part).

 

Do you think they REALLY want to take the risk of pissing off even more players to drop their sub of this?

 

I have brought up the idea of the sub rewards based on sub time like I have seen other games. Maybe give out some other type of virtual currency for each month they are subbed, and then have an offshoot of the cartel market to buy previous sub gifts. But everyone shot me down, I guess now it is ok.

 

But in the instance of HK, and the chapter, BW made a point to say customers would be rewarded with an exclusive chapter and companion. If they turn around now and change it, alot of people are going to be feeling pissed, and may be the last straw of them dropping.

 

I know I dropped before kotet even came out, I just buy 60 subs, because I don't trust them to deliver on any promises anymore, maybe I will be pleasantly surprised. But I doubt it.

[Ratajack]

Stop presenting silly and fallacious premises Ratajack. It is beneath you.

 

I dont understand why you are behaving this way....quite a few of the folks I used to know pretty well, community icons have really started acting rather odd lately.

 

So let me respect you enough to treat you like an adult and be completely frank with you.

 

I don't care how you feel about this when it comes to game health. IF this can bring back players I will gladly do it, and perhaps cause you quite a bit of distress doing so, and I will not have any concern about your misgivings.

 

The games health comes first. You are one of what I find is likely very few. You simply do not represent enough people for me to consider your viewpoint when making a decision such as this.

 

If you dont like this suggestion, suggest a viable alternative. Present one that had the same draw this one had, and I will gladly focus on that.

 

The best path for all involved is a vehicle that will draw in old players using current assets already in the game, one that will not malign those that have received that reward and/or content in the past...so pick one.

 

Otherwise I will continue to push for this and ignore your concerns.

 

Because rehashing old content has been so successful in retaining and increasing subs so far, right?

 

IMO, it would be better for BW to offer new rewards and incentives via alternative means, either replacing the time specific reward system or run in parallel with a time specific reward system with similar but different rewards.

[Capt_V_Obvious]

I am a big no to old sub rewards being brought back a second time. However I believe they need new stuff that is similar or better that everyone can have a chance to get. Including maybe a new story-but-not-story chapter for a 6 month+ undropped subscriber reward again. The past year has been so boring and lacking content wise, and we've had no sub rewards that I remember so even subbing was a "why do I bother".

 

Brand New content for rewards, not old stuff brought around again and pretending to be new. We've already had these as sub rewards, give us brand new stuff to the same quality/type or better to sub for or else the people who already met the requirements have zero reason to sub as well.

 

edit: and no I do not have all the sub rewards, not by a long shot but I've never begged for the ones I missed as disappointed I am about missing out on Nico's gear I prefer new stuff to getting old again.

Also "vintage" tags don't work, seeing as the original Shae already gets a labelled vintage armour set for her on recruitment, need a different name or a reskinned comp.

 

"But hey, if new folks who weren't around want to part with their money for that stuff then screw them because I'm an old sub so I deserve better: ergo they deserve nothing!" <Your logic.

 

A paying customer is a paying customer, seniority shouldn't come in to it. This isn't the army, after all!

Folks looking at the game atm are turned off by community folks with attitudes like yours.

 

Perhaps they could bring them back as a bunch of limited time "do these quests to unlock this macguffin" deals for each old sub reward, available only to subs?