Nefla Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 So BioWare has made it clear that Theron's "betrayal" is not really a betrayal and that he's infiltrating this Order of Zildrog for some reason (probably simply to stop them). Many of us assumed that this would be resolved when the truth came out and we would take him back into the fold realizing he had been working in our best interests. Others thought we would get a kill option regardless of knowing the truth. Now as we all know, the history of killable companions is grim. Any companion that is killable takes on a diminished and then non existent role in the story, becoming lifeless cardboard cutouts. Arcann and Senya held out longer than others but by the time KotET finished they too were nothing but silent, uninvolved nothings like the rest. So the idea has been that either we are forced to take Theron back and he remains a part of the story or we are given the option to kill him and he is turned into a cardboard cutout and added to the pile. Well I've been thinking, what if both options are wrong? Troy Baker is a big name in voice acting and probably the most expensive one to employ. It seems BioWare wants to cut costs (and corners) whenever they can these days. What if this whole OOC "betrayal" where Theron randomly buggers off on his own instead of working as a team like in every other past scenario is just a setup for his impending death? You find out what he's been doing and about the Order of Zildrog's plans and then you can choose to be an edgelord and kill him anyway or he dies protecting you which leads into the story of the next expansion. Maybe giving him a grotesque hairstyle that looks like his head was run over by a lawnmower was meant to push us even farther away from him... Thoughts? Does anyone else "have a bad feeling about this"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ofcolombia Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Couldn't happen to a more deserving character in the game, good riddance I say, let the squeers squee some more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazzakey Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I think they're trying to get out of the corner they've written themselves into with KOTET and Iokath. Theron, I don't know, I want to know why he hasn't told us what he's doing and why he's doing it. If the answer is something silly then I'll fully support the kill option for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyFlynn Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I have an uneasy feeling and can't really pin myself down to a single thought. Troy is busy, with VA work, with his band, he has a lot on his plate so if it's a case of "Can no longer commit to", so be it but I would then hope Bioware would replace him rather than kill Theron. On the other hand, Tanno Vik's VA had passed away by the time of KOTFE and well, we all know there is no way for a Trooper to ever get Tanno back. I also feel Theron is a character BW has invested a lot into. He has his own books, he has several story-blog posts dedicated to him. He was a big part of the SoR and onwards story including Eternal Empire now. There's so much lore devoted to him, in-game and outside of it and it would be a waste to toss it all. He's also a much beloved character not just for us girls leaving a trail of drool in his wake, but for the bisexual/gay male players who now finally have a love. Granted, they could go for Koth but who in their right mind would? It would be rather crummy because first BW made their hearts flutter via Lord Cytharat but... well where is he now? Then they get Theron in KOTFE only for this to happen. My expectations of Bioware aren't all that high right now but I think (or perhaps I naively hope) they won't stoop as low as to write Theron out and take him away from everyone. I do fear once he returns, he may come with a kill option in which case he'll likely vanish into the background and that's a true shame. In my opinion, he should return without a kill option and the big "but he betrayed me wah wah" folks can just nut up and shut up, deal with it. Especially if Bioware is going to play it off as Theron doing a bad thing for a good reason, for our sakes. I'd feel it wrong if they sat here going "Nah see, Theron's good, he did it to help you and save your Alliance! We gave him his own heroic story but okay go ahead and kill him anyways lol". Also why I hate betrayal stories like these but meh. I dunno, I'm all over the place with my thoughts on this and just hoping Bioware won't let us down. Have a darned good excuse ready for when this plays out, don't kill him off, don't give him a kill option and for the love of all that's holy, fix his god danged hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Now we know who the big bad are i.e. The Order of Zildrog he will have to die as there is no way to justify what he has done. Restarted the Republic vs Empire war. Woke the Gods of the Machine. Tried to Kill you a bunch of times. Started a Chiss Civil War. Found a store house of the Emperors secret weapons for them (how many he has is anyones guess). The Order of Zildrog, is no where near as damaging as Theron has managed to be. How he managed all this is no doubt a retcon special but finding some cultist chumps does not justify whats his done. Nor can it be explained why there is no other way to take them down but to infiltrate them without telling the commander, there some cultists based on one planet of decadent children who can't do anything for themselves if it weren't for their benevolent god emperor who they all loved. So at this point even if his a double agent it doesn't out weigh all the damage and death his caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmodesu Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 To be technical this entire arc has already been written so they may or may not have written in a death. But I agree, I highly doubt there will be an ending here that will be favourable to those who want Theron around as he was still after it all. The writers are all on twitter "trust!" and then charles is in an interview saying "we did this to be a game of thrones - consequences of trust style arc" so I don't trust the writing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MishaCantu Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) I partially agree with Pazzakey in that BW has written themselves into quite a few corners. As for Theron dying, it would be a "convenient" way to avoid paying Troy Baker for further VA, but they could also have Theron's vocal cords damaged in a fight and replace the VA, I suppose. I'd rather that than to lose him altogether. The problem I see, is this whole Zakuul, alliance, Eternal Throne debacle unless they intend to have a third faction, but I don't see BW supporting 3 faction PVP, and even storywise, it doesn't work. Theron is Republic to the bone as Lana is Empire, and if they go back to the two factions what about the cross faction romances? Conveniently, I suppose, both could defect to the other side, but then what? I couldn't see either of them being more than paperweights should that happen. I do agree with JennyFlynn also, in that Theron is the main go to guy for most of the gay/bi male players, and sorry, but Arcann is not going to be the replacement BW may hope he is, no more than Koth was. Theron Shan has a lot of investment, not only lore wise but also community and even BW with the books and such. It would be a shame to just write him off. Right now, I don't know what to think and I am frankly weary of the whole betrayal, kill option, nonsense. I don't know what the hell BW is going to do, but whatever it is, they need to be very mindful of their next step. A lot less than killing off a beloved character has backfired in their faces. Edited December 9, 2017 by MishaCantu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadagyt Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) Nah, I don't think he will die. That would be like shooting themselves on the foot. Started a Chiss Civil War. No, that is your toon's fault. If you kill her, then there's no chiss civil war at all. Edited December 9, 2017 by Tadagyt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Started a Chiss Civil War.. My Chiss agent killed the traitor to the Ascendency so no civil war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) If they do, then that's it for me. I'm out. I quit. -1 founder sub. Edited December 9, 2017 by Lunafox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediTahiri Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Hope they are prepared to lose subs, including mine. I already hate this terrible writing to begin with. So that will be the last bit I can take from these writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MishaCantu Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 If they do, then that's it for me. I'm out. I quit. -1 founder sub. Ditto, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoock Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I really hope they'll kill Theron. He's about as annoying as Koth. The whole character is just... repulsive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefla Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 Ditto, my friend. Same here my sisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyFlynn Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 If they do, then that's it for me. I'm out. I quit. -1 founder sub. Ditto, my friend. Same here my sisters. Add me to that list as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taurax Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I think they are going to set it up, as Lana being the hidden leader somehow, and we kill off both Theron and Lana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 If it were just a matter of a VA, IMHO Theron is a key enough character that they would replace Troy Baker and find a way to explain any vocal differences. I don't have a good feeling about this story arc, either for Theron or for the other KOTFE-era companion that I won't name here. They seem to be making both of them less sympathetic in various ways, and I have a horrible feeling that the arc might end in losing at least one of them. If that's the case, i won't want to play anymore either. Even if I have a choice to save my favored companion in lieu of Theron. I don't want to make a choice like that. No, I really *don't* trust the writers, and the "Game of Thrones" comments don't inspire any confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefla Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) If it were just a matter of a VA, IMHO Theron is a key enough character that they would replace Troy Baker and find a way to explain any vocal differences. I don't have a good feeling about this story arc, either for Theron or for the other KOTFE-era companion that I won't name here. They seem to be making both of them less sympathetic in various ways, and I have a horrible feeling that the arc might end in losing at least one of them. If that's the case, i won't want to play anymore either. Even if I have a choice to save my favored companion in lieu of Theron. I don't want to make a choice like that. No, I really *don't* trust the writers, and the "Game of Thrones" comments don't inspire any confidence. I agree on all counts (except as you know I would gladly kill that "other" companion >.>) I also feel like BioWare has sometimes tried to emulate other games or media like the GoT example without knowing what people like about the things they're trying to copy and it just turns into a mess. Edited December 9, 2017 by Nefla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I agree on all counts (except as you know I would gladly kill that "other" companion >.>) I also feel like BioWare has sometimes tried to emulate other games or media like the GoT example without knowing what people like about the things they're trying to copy and it just turns into a mess. How 'bout neither are killable - then we're both happy and everyone gets to keep their LI. ^_^ I'd obviously choose the other, but I actually *like* having Theron in my Alliance and it would be horrible to have my hand forced into that sort of choice, and I think it would sour the game a lot for me, to the point where I'd probably not want to play for a while. I do feel like Bioware tries to emulate other games, and it's to SWTOR's detriment. We both know the edgelords are already salivating at the thought of more characters to kill, but IMHO there has been more than enough of that already. I am sure there's someone out there who is bummed we couldn't kill Temple in the last chapter or execute Darth Hexid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 No, that is your toon's fault. If you kill her, then there's no chiss civil war at all. I guess I should make it clear that my main killed her cause he is an imperial and will support his Chiss allies, would have been bloody silly to kill 100 or so of them in the streets and then balk at killing one more. Which is sadly another disconnect between game and story, game has you killed lots of people then the story kicks in so your jedi can say killing isn't the jedi way. Bloody well seemed to be 5 seconds ago when I was killing all her adds. The point though is that at a certain level you can't justify absolution for everything someone does in the story just cause it helped bring down a minor threat. I'm all for a better more adult story, with game of thrones consequences where if you trust Little Finger and constantly make stupid choices there are consequences. But just having random betrayals is not Game of Thrones, its just bad. But more so to then have it as if those choices never happened is just worse. I have yet to see anyone have an opinion on if you spared or killed Arcann. Seems the only consequence of forgiving someone that froze you for 5 years is you get an extra companion. So not really GOT more Care Bears where the power of friendship can over come all obstacles and forgiveness will make everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevenavasovic Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 They're not going to kill him without giving player a choice. They MIGHT make it so you can kill/exile/forgive him if you want but full on kill without us actually being in control of the choice... no way. They might still do the Vette/Thorian thing but with Lana/Theron but that's as far as I believe they're willing to push it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) They're not going to kill him without giving player a choice. They MIGHT make it so you can kill/exile/forgive him if you want but full on kill without us actually being in control of the choice... no way. They might still do the Vette/Thorian thing but with Lana/Theron but that's as far as I believe they're willing to push it. IMHO one of the concerns is that once a character has any kill or exile option at all, they disappear from the main story for everyone. Even if you've chosen to save them, they almost never have another line or any critical part in the story. Arcann and Senya were the exceptions, but everyone else that has been killable in KOTFE and KOTET has turned into a silent background character. So you can save them but they're still basically dead, since they're no longer in the story. That is why I worry regardless. Thus...sure, you might save Theron or Lana, whichever your preference, but will you ever see or interact with them again as you play your chapters?? Edited December 9, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevenavasovic Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Well I don't disagree but that's somewhat different than outright 'they're going to kill him". They might put him on the shelf so to speak if they go through with kill/exile/forgive. That being said, Lana and Theron have always been different than the rest of the characters. While the vanilla love interests have been... lackluster in their returns and plot since KOTFE/ET, Theron and Lana have been pretty much the main protagonists so I have faith that they'll still be a big part of the story. Of course, I could be wrong. I hope not as all of my toons have romanced Theron so I'll be pretty much done with SWTOR if that happens. And I think the writers know that many players will be rather upset if they remove Theron from the story. IMHO one of the concerns is that once a character has any kill or exile option at all, they disappear from the main story for everyone. Even if you've chosen to save them, they almost never have another line or any critical part in the story. Arcann and Senya were the exceptions, but everyone else that has been killable in KOTFE and KOTET has turned into a silent background character. So you can save them but they're still basically dead, since they're no longer in the story. That is why I worry regardless. Thus...sure, you might save Theron or Lana, whichever your preference, but will you ever see or interact with them again as you play your chapters?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) I didn't believe it at first, but yes I do think he'll die too now. I never liked Theron until his change, which I thought was interesting! But I won't exactly be upset if they were to kill him off. But my friend does like his Theron and he seems to be the only one for him, so he'll probably be upset if Theron had a kill option! The forums are fun with your comments Nefla, so I hope you won't unsub. Edited December 9, 2017 by Eshvara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRandomWolf Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) There are other big games and MMOs who had to sacrifice some screen-time to let Troy deal with other projects, only to have him come back as strong as ever. A good example for this is Guild Wars 2. Surrounding that game's first expansion in 2015, Troy's role in that game was minimal at best. There was barely anything related to him all the way to the 2017 and then he returned, voicing his own share of lines and such. I don't really want Theron to die. I really enjoy Revan's legacy and he is rather important to my main character... I really, really want to see them back together. For Dark-Side players... at least allow them to punish Theron, somehow. Dismemberment, cell, force-choking, etc, etc... or even have Lana interfere with your choice. Edited December 9, 2017 by TheRandomWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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