A ToTaL Refund

[Bigdoom]

:eek:Wow $22,000+ i can't just wow:eek:

[Zhedzaban]

To all of the USA residents who have no sympathy for the plight of Snow White, please understand two key points:

• 
  the latency now experienced by APAC players (even from major cities like Melbourne) makes the game unplayable-this is actually in breach of Australian consumer law, which is far more protective of customers than USA consumer law;

• 
  EA themselves are forced to acknowledge the extent of Australian consumer law in their ToS, and state that Australians are "entitled to a replacement or refund for a major problem".

*snip*

 

Problem is we would only be entitled to refunds from this point forward. Services paid for prior to this disastrous server move had been given in a relatively satisfactory manner so we wouldn't be able to claim a refund for monies spent in the last year.

 

I bought a $100 cartel coin pack last week, right before the merger. If I had of known Bioware was basically going to tell me to go away and not play their game anymore then I obviously wouldn't have spent that money. Probably not a lot I can do about that now. But I/we should be able to get a refund on future subscriptions we have already paid for because the service provided is no longer playable.

[BaronVonBoom]

Posts like these, the tears & this forum in particular

[Rankyn]

Otherwise, to those who are showing no empathy towards Snow White or the rest of the APAC community, I would implore you to do some research and find out just what our problem actually is, but TL;DR we can longer play most elements of the game.

Pretty sure the no empathy bit comes from the $22,000 demand and empty legal threat.

The best you could probably hope for is a refund of anything you had spent in the last 30 days AND termination of your account.

I imagine even Australian consumer protection law would agree.

[jedip_enguin]

Get a grip OP.

[godsuxx]

Not sure if OP is trolling or just being plain stupid lol

[DiamondDove]

I did assume that Snow White is an APAC player, as all NA still have a playable (albeit in many cases inconvenienced/downgraded) service. Following the link, however, it is to USA consumer law. This may be a very different case to the grievance that APAC (and possibly Hawaii) players have.

 

I would like to take different line to most of the posters in here, though, and thank SnowWhite for their large investment that has helped keep the doors open on the game so far - and hope they find the game is actually still playable and keep investing in its future, as that helps all of us (or at least those who still have a ping <300 or so and are still able to play).

[pazzakey]

Wow, over 22,000?

[Baldrix]

BinG/BonG! Nice to see everyone cares

 

I was hoping to see a Moderator Respond to this, but it failed I guess.. PFFT!

 

And I know about Rules 11 and 12 thanks sweetie, 22,000 is a small scratch of how much I've put into many games out there in the past year. I hope to see a west coast again, or an oceanic server if they intend to loose 20-40% of it's player pop by Christmas.

 

A real fan would have put up their own West Coast Server already and done the community a great service with such wealth.

 

But i don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

So i guess we are just looking at a disgruntled gambler that just lost his Star Wars Themed slot machine

Edited October 29, 2017 by Baldrix
oops

[pwhdavey]

To all of the USA residents who have no sympathy for the plight of Snow White, please understand two key points:

• 
  the latency now experienced by APAC players (even from major cities like Melbourne) makes the game unplayable-this is actually in breach of Australian consumer law, which is far more protective of customers than USA consumer law;

• 
  EA themselves are forced to acknowledge the extent of Australian consumer law in their ToS, and state that Australians are "entitled to a replacement or refund for a major problem".

 

See EA's full text here.

"Under the Australian Consumer Law, you are entitled to a replacement or refund for a major problem, and compensation for any other reasonably foreseeable loss or damage. You are also entitled to have goods repaired or replaced, and services resupplied if the goods or services fail to comply with one of the consumer guarantees, and the failure does not amount to a major problem. These rights apply to both physical or hard copy games as well as digitally downloaded games."

 

 

Now, us Aussies will probably all agree that a latency of 300ms+ makes the game unplayable, that there was no warning of this change in service, and that the change in service is a major problem. Our perception is that we are actually entitled to a refund under both Australian consumer law and EA's own ToS.

 

If a court of law, or the Australian Consumer Ombudsman agree is a different matter entirely.

 

Otherwise, to those who are showing no empathy towards Snow White or the rest of the APAC community, I would implore you to do some research and find out just what our problem actually is, but TL;DR we can longer play most elements of the game.

 

Hear hear. Keep it up OP, whether or not you are Australian or American or from somewhere else.

 

All these EA shills and naysayers in this thread are obviously on East Coast....bet they wouldn't be so pompous if they woke up to find their game unplayable.

[Sinhammer]

A real fan would have put up their own West Coast Server already and done the community a great service with such wealth.

 

But i don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

So i guess we are just looking at a disgruntled gambler that just lost his Star Trek Themed slot machine

 

What is...Star...Tr...Trek...I don't...*gets dictionary*

[JourrnoRush]

Wow, over 22,000?

 

Probably not.

[Lunafox]

So who do I send my lawyers after to get a full refund for the 22,000+ USD I spent to play this game and keep it running so I can keep playing??

 

Now being Forced to Quit a Game I love for so Long, it's Cold, and it's messing with The Consumer Rights Act.

 

The contract/TOS that EA/Bioware has laid out, is pretty iron clad in their favour. You figure they have teams of expensive lawyers who think of all this stuff and are well paid to cover their client's butts. I'm sorry to tell you, you really have no leg to stand on, and despite your anger at the situation, you're not going to engage in litigation against a corporation. They'd tie you up in court for decades and the fees would drain away a significant portion of money. It's not like a class action suit, where lives have been lost or something. It sucks, but there is really not much you can do about it.

[Vodolebon]

No need to go to court since OP had what he paid for.

Move along.

 

Game development not going the way we want is another story, and can't be regulated.

You can, however, vote with your wallet (probably the only thing EA understands).

Edited October 29, 2017 by Vodolebon

[pwhdavey]

The contract/TOS that EA/Bioware has laid out, is pretty iron clad in their favour. You figure they have teams of expensive lawyers who think of all this stuff and are well paid to cover their client's butts. I'm sorry to tell you, you really have no leg to stand on, and despite your anger at the situation, you're not going to engage in litigation against a corporation. They'd tie you up in court for decades and the fees would drain away a significant portion of money. It's not like a class action suit, where lives have been lost or something. It sucks, but there is really not much you can do about it.

 

Who let you out of the EA Shill Academy?

[Lunafox]

Who let you out of the EA Shill Academy?

 

There's an academy? LOL

 

Seriously, I'm about the last person that anyone can accuse of being a white knight or a shill. I've called them out on plenty over the years, I'm just stating a fact, free of charge. You might not like what I have to say, but that doesn't make it any less true, sadly.

 

But if you know any shills and where they're getting paid, let me know, I'd like in on the action lol.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Lunafox

[Baldrix]

What is...Star...Tr...Trek...I don't...*gets dictionary*

 

Dunno what you are talking about...

[Sinhammer]

Dunno what you are talking about...

 

LoL with the sneaky sneaky.

[doohickeyexpress]

:eek:Wow $22,000+ i can't just wow:eek:

 

I know, it's simply shocking. But people can do whatever the **** they want with their money. Woo!

[masterceil]

Healer on one of my raid teams is an aussie. Main tank in another is a kiwi. We're still getting on fine.

 

As others said, best you can hope for is a refund on your last sub payment. Anything before that, get fked, you already got what you were paying for.

[MadDutchman]

[Dayshadow]

So who do I send my lawyers after to get a full refund for the 22,000+ USD I spent to play this game and keep it running so I can keep playing??

 

Now being Forced to Quit a Game I love for so Long, it's Cold, and it's messing with The Consumer Rights Act.

 

I'm going to have my lawyers look into suing every entity I have ever given money to in my entire life. Yes, I paid for those items and services and reaped the benefits of them, but now I'm just pissed at the whole world so I think I deserve to get a refund on everything I've ever bought in life.

 

On a serious note, I can understand demanding a refund on remaining subscription time if you have one of those 6-12 month subs and you have like 2+ months left. You might have a case there. If you are suffering 300+ ping and you can demonstrate that you cannot properly play the game (i.e. can't hit targets because you can't see them, can't do raids because you can't see big boss attacks coming in time, can't heal because they can't monitor party health in real time, etc. due to severe lag). Although it would probably become a class action lawsuit.

 

And for people who cite terms of service. They do not hold up in court (nor ever used as a defense) because they are not an agreed upon contract. You cannot sell someone a product and then, after they'd taken it out of the packaging and effectively rendered it "used" spring a legally binding contract stating they can do whatever they want and you have no recourse. Especially considering you can't prove it's been read. No signature. No deal. But that's not what a TOS is. ToS exist because the company has to establish what the consumer is purchasing and inform consumers on how they can utilize said product. It's the terms of using the software. That's it. It's not legal force field that makes them immune to prosecution. If EA does something bad they still have to own up to it. Gaming companies get sued by costumers and sometimes lose (typically a settlement). Although terms of service are not necessary for a company to make a case in court. That's not what they are for.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Dayshadow

[Lunafox]

 

And for people who cite terms of service. They do not hold up in court (nor ever used as a defense) because they are not an agreed upon contract. You cannot sell someone a product and then, after they'd taken it out of the packaging and effectively rendered it "used" spring a legally binding contract stating they can do whatever they want and you have no recourse. Especially considering you can't prove it's been read. No signature. No deal.

 

Well, actually the little ticky box that you find at the end of all these things, serves as 'proof' that you read it. Whether you did or not, that's on you, not the company. That's why everyone jokes about selling their souls to a company, because few read and just tick the box to get on with it, but the ticky box does the job of showing you read and agreed to the contract and it is indeed a contract. Even the IRS accepts virtual signatures and holds them as binding.

[americanaussie]

To all of the USA residents who have no sympathy for the plight of Snow White, please understand two key points:

• 
  the latency now experienced by APAC players (even from major cities like Melbourne) makes the game unplayable-this is actually in breach of Australian consumer law, which is far more protective of customers than USA consumer law;

• 
  EA themselves are forced to acknowledge the extent of Australian consumer law in their ToS, and state that Australians are "entitled to a replacement or refund for a major problem".

 

See EA's full text here.

"Under the Australian Consumer Law, you are entitled to a replacement or refund for a major problem, and compensation for any other reasonably foreseeable loss or damage. You are also entitled to have goods repaired or replaced, and services resupplied if the goods or services fail to comply with one of the consumer guarantees, and the failure does not amount to a major problem. These rights apply to both physical or hard copy games as well as digitally downloaded games."

 

 

Now, us Aussies will probably all agree that a latency of 300ms+ makes the game unplayable, that there was no warning of this change in service, and that the change in service is a major problem. Our perception is that we are actually entitled to a refund under both Australian consumer law and EA's own ToS.

 

If a court of law, or the Australian Consumer Ombudsman agree is a different matter entirely.

 

Otherwise, to those who are showing no empathy towards Snow White or the rest of the APAC community, I would implore you to do some research and find out just what our problem actually is, but TL;DR we can longer play most elements of the game.

 

Actually you're right. It is a breech of Australian law. And they've admitted to lying about it. But I think you'd only be entitled to the last month or two of buying stuff not everything you've ever spent.

[Eshvara]

-Snip. Edited October 29, 2017 by Eshvara