Arcann romance appreciation thread! Haters keep out please!❤

[Darthmoriquendi]

Happy this thread is still here! I'm just sitting here waiting to save my boy. I feel the cobwebs growing. 

[JakRoanin]

I would love to know the name of the planet he and Sana Rae are on.  It's not Runik so we won't meet him there. I wonder if it could be Dathomir?

[Darthmoriquendi]

34 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

I would love to know the name of the planet he and Sana Rae are on.  It's not Runik so we won't meet him there. I wonder if it could be Dathomir?

I know it is a dark unknown planet close to zakuul. You get a mail from Arcann (non romance) that states he wanted to stop by zakuul because where he was going was so close to home. He didn't though because he wanted the Outlander or Senya to be with him. It's not Elom or Dathomir and as far as Ruhnuk is concerned, I've tried to find out more but nithing gives the coordinates. Have no clue where Ruhnuk is until bioware releases more info. 

I am hoping it is a different place that hasn't been named yet. Hopefully we get some kind of story mission or flashpoint concerning Arcann and Sana Rae. 

[JakRoanin]

Not a FP please! I want a real world with Exploration Missions and tons of new places to nose around and treasures to find. I am so sick of FP's it's embarrassing. 

[Darthmoriquendi]

13 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

Not a FP please! I want a real world with Exploration Missions and tons of new places to nose around and treasures to find. I am so sick of FP's it's embarrassing. 

Agreed I am tired of fp as story content. It seems this is the way bioware wants to implement content forward. Cuts down on development I guess. Instead of creating actual stories and then adding an extra flashpoint that is not required to play in order to get through the content, it's combined in one. K*lling two birds with one stone. 

As much as I dislike the fp route, if they did this with the Arcann/Sana Rae plotline, it is better than just a cutscene talking to lana around a console, and it would be replayable.

[Siita]

Well now... it is now 2023 and Arcann has been gone for how long now?

It has to be at least a year of in-game time.  😔

He's been gone SO long that we can brainstorm up a brand new head-canon storyline of the 'adventures' that he's getting up to.   I wonder what he might be dealing with at this point, mentally.  Before, when emperor, he was surrounded by countless people and an army of droids.  I can totally see how he still might have felt alone as Arcann literally didn't have 'anyone' (Senya was 'gone', Thexan was dead by his own hand, Vaylin mind-gamed him constantly, and Valky was just beyond horrible).  

Now, he's literally by himself, left to his own devices in a place that is, in regard to the Force, "unstable".  I'm dying to know more about his internal dialogue and struggles right about now.

An Arcann-centric short story would be HEAVENLY to have right about now. 

 

Calling all Arcann fans! Let's get this thread back up and running 🥰

 

[Darthmoriquendi]

4 minutes ago, Siita said:

Well now... it is now 2023 and Arcann has been gone for how long now?

It has to be at least a year of in-game time.  😔

He's been gone SO long that we can brainstorm up a brand new head-canon storyline of the 'adventures' that he's getting up to.   I wonder what he might be dealing with at this point, mentally.  Before, when emperor, he was surrounded by countless people and an army of droids.  I can totally see how he still might have felt alone as Arcann literally didn't have 'anyone' (Senya was 'gone', Thexan was dead by his own hand, Vaylin mind-gamed him constantly, and Valky was just beyond horrible).  

Now, he's literally by himself, left to his own devices in a place that is, in regard to the Force, "unstable".  I'm dying to know more about his internal dialogue and struggles right about now.

An Arcann-centric short story would be HEAVENLY to have right about now. 

 

Calling all Arcann fans! Let's get this thread back up and running 🥰

 

I'm right there with you. I think it was a year last august that we sent Arcann on his mission. As slow as content gets dropped, it doesn't seem realistic to think that in game time is like real tiime like it used to be or as Charles Boyd had stated some time back. This would be an incredibly long time for our boy to be gone. I mean how is he surviving? Food, Water, Shelter? I guess he could sleep in his ship, but supplies for that length of time on a planet that is most likely uninhabited, unstable and maybe inhospitable? I can just see him sitting over a campfire with tattered robes chewing on some wild roasted critter....Lol Hopefully Sana Rae brings a few things with her and mom Senya sends a care package.

Which makes me wonder why on earth has not Senya even asked about what is going on. You  would think she would be worried to death about her son. And even worse, the fact that the Commander would even let him be gone this long makes no sense. I just hope that whatever story that is planned is well worth the wait and he will be back safe and sound with us.

I have wondered about his mental state as well, or if he will even be the same Arcann when we see him again. Just depends on what he gets himself into. And about Sana Rae? I'm not sure I am entirely trusting her anymore. I have been getting some bad vibes from her ever since she wanted to send him to this place. Just some cut scenes and her expressions have rubbed me the wrong way with her.

 

 

 

 

[witchglove]

5 hours ago, Siita said:

An Arcann-centric short story would be HEAVENLY to have right about now.

Please Devs, make this happen! I would sign legally binding documents to stay subscribed for the rest of my life in return for such a thing!

In all seriousness, a short story to cover this gap in storytelling would make perfect sense. It would remind the player what he's doing and work as an appetizer for the continued story of Darth Nul. It would also be the PERFECT opportunity for an introspective piece to give redeemed Arcann some much-needed character development. Due to the nature of the game (having so many companion characters and subplots) there's been little opportunity to fully explore the immense changes in his character. I would think a short story covering this would be a dream job for anyone on the writing team!

5 hours ago, Siita said:

He's been gone SO long that we can brainstorm up a brand new head-canon storyline of the 'adventures' that he's getting up to.   I wonder what he might be dealing with at this point, mentally.  Before, when emperor, he was surrounded by countless people and an army of droids.  I can totally see how he still might have felt alone as Arcann literally didn't have 'anyone' (Senya was 'gone', Thexan was dead by his own hand, Vaylin mind-gamed him constantly, and Valky was just beyond horrible).  

Now, he's literally by himself, left to his own devices in a place that is, in regard to the Force, "unstable".  I'm dying to know more about his internal dialogue and struggles right about now.

I would LOVE to read about how being on a planet strong in the dark side of the Force might affect him! There's an opportunity here to really show how far he's come in terms of how he deals with that vs. his concern about going to Nathema when he was "newly redeemed". I'm sure he's much more secure in himself now, has better coping mechanisms, etc., but an unstable planet would most likely still bring back some of those old, difficult feelings. So would his sense of having failed us on his mission, I think. This is a pretty big responsibility he's been entrusted with and I wonder if his old sense of needing to prove himself might trouble him (especially if the player denies his request for assistance in the most recent cutscene - asking for it in the first place is a big step for Arcann!).

In redemption arcs it's usually considered a good thing if the former villain goes off on an extended solitary journey, as it gives him the chance to act independently of the hero(es) and thus truly prove himself. I really hope we get to see this for Arcann. My headcanon definitely includes encounters/situations for him on that planet that gives him the opportunity to act in accordance with his new sense of self. I don't need heroics, necessarily, but I would like to see him act with mercy, calm and kindness.

5 hours ago, Darthmoriquendi said:

This would be an incredibly long time for our boy to be gone. I mean how is he surviving? Food, Water, Shelter? I guess he could sleep in his ship, but supplies for that length of time on a planet that is most likely uninhabited, unstable and maybe inhospitable?

The longer he's gone, the weirder it feels that we apparently sent him there all alone (or with just Sana Rae as backup), to be honest. If it were just a quick scouting mission it wouldn't be odd, but if he's there for months and months you'd think any Commander worth her salt would send an entire research team. I'm sure Arcann knows how to manage - he has been on multiple planetary conquests etc. in his life - but it does seem like an irresponsible choice by the Commander.

 

[Siita]

On 2/15/2023 at 3:24 PM, witchglove said:

I would LOVE to read about how being on a planet strong in the dark side of the Force might affect him! There's an opportunity here to really show how far he's come in terms of how he deals with that vs. his concern about going to Nathema when he was "newly redeemed". I'm sure he's much more secure in himself now, has better coping mechanisms, etc., but an unstable planet would most likely still bring back some of those old, difficult feelings. So would his sense of having failed us on his mission, I think. This is a pretty big responsibility he's been entrusted with and I wonder if his old sense of needing to prove himself might trouble him (especially if the player denies his request for assistance in the most recent cutscene - asking for it in the first place is a big step for Arcann!).

I love that you mentioned the fact that the player might have denied him assistance.  I have always sent him assistance on all of my playthroughs as it is likely a HUGE deal for him to request help in the first place.  If he hadn't requested the assistance, I probably wouldn't ever send Sana Rae 😂

 

At this point, I feel that we do deserve a short story from the devs describing Arcann's solo journey to XYZ planet.  😉 If they don't have time to do it, I seriously nominate @witchgloveto write it.  She's an outstanding writer and knows the character better than anyone else I know. 🥰

Edited February 16, 2023 by Siita

[witchglove]

15 hours ago, Siita said:

At this point, I feel that we do deserve a short story from the devs describing Arcann's solo journey to XYZ planet.  😉 If they don't have time to do it, I seriously nominate @witchgloveto write it.  She's an outstanding writer and knows the character better than anyone else I know. 🥰

OMG thank you so much! 😊🥰

I'm sure there are many talented writers out there who would knock this out of the park! In fact, I propose we have a fanfic prompt challenge!

I've created a new topic for this in the fanfic subforum: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927753-fanfic-challenge-prompt-arcanns-mission/

I'll create a collection on Ao3 for entries too, if people are interested.

I hope lots of you will participate! Let's show the devs how much we want to know what he's up to - and maybe even give them a few ideas for an official short story 😉

[Siita]

1 hour ago, witchglove said:

I've created a new topic for this in the fanfic subforum: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927753-fanfic-challenge-prompt-arcanns-mission/

I'll create a collection on Ao3 for entries too, if people are interested.

I hope lots of you will participate! Let's show the devs how much we want to know what he's up to - and maybe even give them a few ideas for an official short story 😉

We should 100% make a collection on Ao3!  How wonderful would that be?

We likely have a lot more waiting to do before we get answers about Arcann's expedition.  Now would be the perfect time to do some writing 👏

[Siita]

To anyone that might be lurking: we have a discord server set up where we discuss all things KOTFE/KOTET/Eternal Empire.  Shoot myself or @witchglove a DM if you'd like an invitation to come chat, hang out, or to simply lurk.

We have lots of character and story discussions and share awesome things like fan art and other media types. 😄

We'd love to have you!

[jedipattawan]

I enjoyed befriending this guy and having him on my team.  Arcann is a cool character and it'd always be nice to see him around more somehow wherever it fits.  

[Stradlin]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:38 PM, jedipattawan said:

I enjoyed befriending this guy and having him on my team.  Arcann is a cool character and it'd always be nice to see him around more somehow wherever it fits.  

 

I've never killed him or Senya, even on my Republic characters. There are..what, close to 50 companions now? Yet, human male force user remains strangely exotic a combination. Novelty in that alone saves his life in my books.

It is clear he'd absolutely deserve death from all that he has done though. Rep side Player Char shielding him from justice is borderline irrational when you think about it. This guy is a genocidal maniac with blood of three different vast galactic super powers in his hands.  Yet, playerchar figures wellp, bygones be bygones xoxo let's go adventuring! Imagine how incredibly controversial and hated this would render any Rep side player character in particular, pretty much across the galaxy. Just plain bad PR!

It is also a lost opportunity. Liking Arcann so much you hide him from people, protect him from those who rightly pursue him for justice..that'd be an excellent venue to a pretty cool fall from grace  bacground for  LS->DS journey of playerchar.

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Stradlin

[jedipattawan]

20 hours ago, Stradlin said:

 

I've never killed him or Senya, even on my Republic characters. There are..what, close to 50 companions now? Yet, human male force user remains strangely exotic a combination. Novelty in that alone saves his life in my books.

It is clear he'd absolutely deserve death from all that he has done though. Rep side Player Char shielding him from justice is borderline irrational when you think about it. This guy is a genocidal maniac with blood of three different vast galactic super powers in his hands.  Yet, playerchar figures wellp, bygones be bygones xoxo let's go adventuring! Imagine how incredibly controversial and hated this would render any Rep side player character in particular, pretty much across the galaxy. Just plain bad PR!

It is also a lost opportunity. Liking Arcann so much you hide him from people, protect him from those who rightly pursue him for justice..that'd be an excellent venue to a pretty cool fall from grace  bacground for  LS->DS journey of playerchar.

 

I like to think of his sentence as serving the republic for the rest of his life or until otherwise stated.  His purpose of turning him was to stop the bloodshed of a very powerful genocidal superpower, turn him towards the good side of the force, and illicit his help in achieving the alliances and pubs goals in regards to the betterment of themselves and their allies.

He has a massive debt to repay and he knows it and can be a valuable asset.

Edited February 20, 2023 by jedipattawan

[Stradlin]

20 hours ago, jedipattawan said:

I like to think of his sentence as serving the republic for the rest of his life or until otherwise stated.  His purpose of turning him was to stop the bloodshed of a very powerful genocidal superpower, turn him towards the good side of the force, and illicit his help in achieving the alliances and pubs goals in regards to the betterment of themselves and their allies.

He has a massive debt to repay and he knows it and can be a valuable asset.

Eternal Empire wasn't ruled by some council who'd share some of the responsibility or  blame.  As a ruler, he wasn't an elected official, some misfortune ushered in  by those who voted for him. He wasn't  a small cog in some bigger machine but the top of the pyramid.  Arcann's genocidal rampage is  his burden alone, I imagine him getting a galaxy wide adventure in  VIP ranks of Playerchar as his punishment isn't much of a comfort on planets that faced indiscriminatory bombartments, or any number of other  psychotic murderous whims of his.  Idea, notion that playercharacter and his..questionable shadow faction within the Republic is somehow in a position where the "alliance commander" can decide Arcann's fate on behalf of the entire galaxy must be hated across both superpowers and most certainly, in Zakuul.

I guess his fate is meant to offer bit  of an  echo of a classic star wars redemption arc defined by Vader. Its just that Vader paid with his life. His crimes, his punishment, justice system, all of that became irrelevant. He had nothing left to  pay for the wider galaxy. In that situation, forgivness, redemption and all of that has the luxury of becoming a matter for family, loved ones  and others close to him.

It is very natural for all of us, and for writers to just ignore this stuff. Its not like I've ever killed Arcann like I mentioned above. Playercharacter is basically a god of whichever videogame said PC habits, so it is all too natural for writers  to have decisions such as this orbiting the playerchar  and be  presented as if it couldn't be important or meaningful or hurtful or hateful or impactful  for anyone else beyond the PC.

Playerchar incredibly parading Arcann in the open, as a team member#49 or something  is a lost writing  opportunity for some very interesting DS cloak and dagger. Imagine Playerchar deciding galaxy would never understand PC's decision to spare and shield Arcann.  PC realizing it truly isn't his decision to make, yet he feels he wants to make it anyways. Imagine PC deciding it must be kept hidden, that he must lie for Arcann. It'd be a path to the dark side  ultimately or initially  motivated and driven by love or affection or selfish obsession. That would have been  deliciously human. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Stradlin

[JakRoanin]

Like I said ages ago, Arcann's death solves nothing. It doesn't undo the War in the Core Worlds Valkorian wanted Thexan to lead. It doesn't undo the deaths in Arcann's war. It doesn't help clean up the mess. Death doesn't punish him at all, it just provides the public with Kalyio's definition of a sugar rush.

[Stradlin]

1 hour ago, JakRoanin said:

Like I said ages ago, Arcann's death solves nothing. It doesn't undo the War in the Core Worlds Valkorian wanted Thexan to lead. It doesn't undo the deaths in Arcann's war. It doesn't help clean up the mess. Death doesn't punish him at all, it just provides the public with Kalyio's definition of a sugar rush.

 

Well no, point of justice system isn't to magically erase and undo  the evils that have already happened.  When we speak of stuff as final as murder, justice system isn't able to undo it. Letting genocidal  murderers on galaxy wide adventurers simply because you can't resurrect their victims still doesn't appear as a shining example of a functioning justice system.

 

[witchglove]

1 hour ago, JakRoanin said:

Like I said ages ago, Arcann's death solves nothing. It doesn't undo the War in the Core Worlds Valkorian wanted Thexan to lead. It doesn't undo the deaths in Arcann's war. It doesn't help clean up the mess. Death doesn't punish him at all, it just provides the public with Kalyio's definition of a sugar rush.

I agree. Even LS characters who are not Jedi could easily justify keeping him alive because, like @JakRoaninsaid, at least that way he can do some good now whereas an execution serves no purpose at all except for vengeance.

The whole thing comes down to punishment philosophies: retribution vs. rehabilitation, etc. For LS Jedi, there really is no question at all that the only choice regarding Arcann (or anyone like him) is rehabilitation. Jedi are not upholders of justice first and foremost - they are protectors of life and believers in redemption.

I think it has to be kept in mind that Arcann is far from the only person in this universe who has committed genocide (still the wrong word for what he did imo, but that's semantics), war crimes and other atrocities. If you apply the philosphy of retribution to him, you'd have to do it to everyone else, too. That means a lot of executions/lifetime imprisonment on all sides, most notably for DS player characters.

I also think it makes a crucial difference that Arcann actively wants to atone. It would be different matter for characters who had committed atrocities and showed no remorse and no interest in redemption (like Vaylin). As for Arcann himself, I'm sure he doesn't think of his role in the Alliance as a free pass. There is hardly a single conversation with him where he doesn't express remorse, dedication to atoning for his crimes, etc. It's clear that he means to spend the rest of his life atoning - and I think it's also clear that he's aware that he can likely never balance the scales. That's something he will have to live with.

I do think what @Stradlinsaid about DS choices where you keep him alive for selfish reasons would have been really interesting and added a lot of nuance. I would also love to see other characters react strongly to seeing him with you, including reactions of rage and fear. But it should by no means be a DS choice to keep him alive by default.

Edited February 22, 2023 by witchglove

[JakRoanin]

But death isn't even proper retribution even if a character wants it. Death is the end of suffering for Arcann not the cause of it.

[Stradlin]

Just now, witchglove said:

I agree. Even LS characters who are not Jedi could easily justify keeping him alive because, like @JakRoaninsaid, at least that way he can do some good now whereas an execution serves no purpose at all except for vengeance.

Imo it is personal vengeance only if we look at it narrowly through the lense of playerchar -centric world, where only PC's desires and issues matter for anyone at all. For wider galaxy, it is prolly fair to call it justice for all the worlds he bombed. 

 Trial where this stuff is contemplated, PlayerChar perhaps acting as the judge would have been pretty cool, and very Dragon Age-esque way to explore this stuff in-game. PC godmoding Arcann a second change there would have given an impression of there, perhaps being a galaxy that doesn't exclusively  orbit the playerchar and their whims, romantic or otherwise.

 

 

[Stradlin]

8 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

But death isn't even proper retribution even if a character wants it. Death is the end of suffering for Arcann not the cause of it.

I guess death keeps coming up in my writing about this stuff only because it is the option present in-game. Justice would involve  gears of justice system, trial, all that stuff! Would have been a pretty cool to see tbh.

 

[witchglove]

Just now, Stradlin said:

Imo it is personal vengeance only if we look at it narrowly through the lense of playerchar -centric world, where only PC's desires and issues matter for anyone at all. For wider galaxy, it is prolly fair to call it justice for all the worlds he bombed. 

 Trial where this stuff is contemplated, PlayerChar perhaps acting as the judge would have been pretty cool, and very Dragon Age-esque way to explore this stuff in-game. PC godmoding Arcann a second change there would have given an impression of there, perhaps being a galaxy that doesn't exclusively  orbit the playerchar and their whims, romantic or otherwise.

It's still vengeance for the wider galaxy, if they want him dead simply because they think he needs to pay for his crimes. What other motive could there be for a death penalty for Arcann? Unlike Vaylin, he doesn't need to die to keep the galaxy safe, since he no longer presents a threat to it (of course, some people might argue that he still does, in which case a trial like you suggested would be a really cool idea).

Ultimately, this is the same argument people have about the death penalty in RL. We'll likely never agree on the topic in this thread (and we don't have to!), as it simply comes down to different perspectives on justice. Some would argue that the death penalty invariably confuses justice with vengeance. Others would argue that in the most extreme cases, the only way for the victims to feel a sense of justice is for the punishment to match the crime.

I do agree with you that everything would be more fun if our player character generally received more pushback, not only with regard to Arcann but to many of our choices.

[JakRoanin]

Honestly, I do think there should have been an option for imprisionment simply because I feel like there aren't enough options that apply to non-Force philosophies. I personally wouldn't do it because even my most non-forgiving types believe that he should clean up his mess. Even then, they end up forgiving him.

[Siita]

Zakuul stronghold when?