Please put an end to stealth trolling in ranked.

[Evolixe]

Actually. The assassin phase walk was primarily used for 1) getting the hell out of Dodge in regs/ranked or 2) it allowed a sin to get far enough to outlast a classes big dcd (enrage def/entrench/saber ward on mara ect)

 

While it held a ton of utility for almost any situation, it was an escape, not a damage reduction. It didn't make you leave combat, it didn't heal you, it didn't even raise you def. it allowed you to run away, in which you couldn't do dmg to them either. An escape is just that, it does not equal unlimited stlth vs all classes or a nonstop 15% def.

 

I pretty much invented phase walk creativity, you don't have to tell me what it was used for.

I tries to word it simple so you would understand but it seems that didn't make any difference.

 

So let me try once more;

Dark Embrace = damage reduction = helps you stay alive.

Phase Walk = Escape

 

And what does an Escape do for you? Right, it allows you to get away.

By getting away you get to live to fight another day and as such serves the exact same function as Dark Embrace.

 

 

I would be all for having it gone and Phase Walk return. Holy **** yes please.

[rylanadionysis]

You have a very bad solution to this problem both for PvP and for PvE.

What next? Maybe that 2 seconds stealth from ESO?

 

You mean the "crouching right in the middle of the road on a sunny day as 30 guys on horseback that cant see you ride by" kind?

 

I know that kind....

[Magira]

I pretty much invented phase walk creativity, you don't have to tell me what it was used for.

I tries to word it simple so you would understand but it seems that didn't make any difference.

 

So let me try once more;

Dark Embrace = damage reduction = helps you stay alive.

Phase Walk = Escape

 

And what does an Escape do for you? Right, it allows you to get away.

By getting away you get to live to fight another day and as such serves the exact same function as Dark Embrace.

 

 

I would be all for having it gone and Phase Walk return. Holy **** yes please.

 

Phasewalk was very good for node capping. Most of the time, the defenders are too far away for the sap. Phasewalk placed on the node and instant back to capping. If the sap breaks, you'll still have your 30m force lift. It was almost too easy if the node was only guarded by a non stealth. Especially in hypergates.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Magira

[Evolixe]

Phasewalk was very good for node capping. Most of the time, the defenders are too far away for the sap. Phasewalk placed on the node and instant back to capping. If the sap breaks, you'll still have your 30m force lift. It was almost too easy if the node was only guarded by a non stealth. Especially in hypergates.

 

So think carefully about who and what you leave behind to defend. What is your point?

[Evolixe]

You mean the "crouching right in the middle of the road on a sunny day as 30 guys on horseback that cant see you ride by" kind?

 

I know that kind....

 

I already told you why the depth of stealth hardly makes any difference.

The only big deal is that it's futile to try and find a stealthed node defender, but there are other ways.

[olagatonjedi]

Not that I don't believe you but I havn't experienced this once in the past 5 years.

 

And to the guy above me here; I already said it before.. pre 5.0 we had Phase Walk which arguably provided more "Damage Reduction" than permanent blackout ever will. So your comparison is highly flawed.

I experience it at least once a warzone in void and odessen. Perhaps it has to do with lag, but im usually at 69ms, so i doubt its my side.

[merovejec]

To keep this whine up so long, someone must have gotten badly ROFLSTOMPED

 

I only see Evoxil posts here

[merovejec]

You mean the stealthlevels? Since darkswell used to give damage reduction to Blackout instead of Dark Embrace I thought thats what you meant.

 

But about the ability to detect stealthers roaming close to you.. I think that's hardly a big deal.

The only people it really aids is those that don't know how to approach people in stealth.

Ie, you can't detect a stealther behind you, even a level 1. Even if you're a Sniper on 30 stacks.

 

Those that do know this hardly ever got detected.

Anyway, if that's your worry then I think you are grossly overestimating the effects.

 

I played A LOT of PVP on my sentinel back in the days and it was often the case when i have spotted a stealther running next to me since he didnt use Blackout to increase his stealth level, that is impossible now. So a sentinel like me has almost 0 chances of finding a stealther roaming around, yes, that kinda sucks compared to a slinger in cover or mando/VG with stealth scam or Sage able to spam Force quake.

[Magira]

So think carefully about who and what you leave behind to defend. What is your point?

 

I don't know why the opponent's team doesn't put up a stealth or powertech (this is hellish, you have to try to kill and then he usually has help already).

In the unrated play a lot of casuals (no swearword for me btw) and you meet all kinds of things. Just often Gunslinger. Today they are rather heavy, as they are always far away, formerly with phasewalk it was an almost safe cap.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Magira

[Schoock]

Ignoring, Straw-manning and sensible substantiated arguments aren't the same thing.

You refuse to see the flaws in your idea and you refuse to recognize that my proposal is already proven not to really possess any issues.

 

"What if we fight here, what if this happens, that happens"

Thats what strawman arguments are, and the only one using them is you.

 

Stalling for acid, that's what it solves. And that's the only thing requiring any solving as far as stealth goes.

 

Your method provides an additional anti-stealth mechanic, which is not needed, and you keep either ignoring it completely or writing it off as unimportant.

 

Other games have time-limited stealth, too, probably even more than your magic token. Now, I don't want to have stealth nerfed in general because nobody cares about it in PvE and in objective warzones it's needed, but some limitation on it in arenas isn't the end of the world.

 

But you're right, a 6s reveal every 30 seconds is not the best way to go about it. Just bring acid forward if a) no combat is initiated in 60 seconds from the match start, b) all survivors are out of combat for 30 seconds.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Schoock

[Schoock]

So think carefully about who and what you leave behind to defend. What is your point?

 

That it's pretty stupid to require specific classes to defend in Hypergates because some simply cannot defend against a 1vs1 sapcap?

[olagatonjedi]

I lived with it and could live with it again. It bothers me that I have no chance to find the enemy stealth at the Node Capping.

Not sure what you mean by this? They have to become visible to cap.

[olagatonjedi]

I pretty much invented phase walk creativity,

Lol, ok

[olagatonjedi]

That it's pretty stupid to require specific classes to defend in Hypergates because some simply cannot defend against a 1vs1 sapcap?

What trouble are people happening against sap cap? Its almost impossible to let a 1v1 stealth sap cap.

[merovejec]

Lol, ok

 

heh that just beats all

[Magira]

That it's pretty stupid to require specific classes to defend in Hypergates because some simply cannot defend against a 1vs1 sapcap?

 

Every class and every spec has strength and weakness, even in the shadows. The Tank Shadow is very good at deffing, has stealth and if it has to go out of the way, it will last long enough until help arrives.

 

With the omission of phasewalk also the not so good def classes now have a real chance to call for help. Now it's much harder, you don't see Stealth, and everyone else has better chances.

 

Before that, we can speak of op on this point.

 

The blackout and the old stealth mechanic were also an advantage for the attacker, who was used properly and the enemy stealt could be discovered, but you could not. In this respect, the new stealth mechanism is also a nerf. (for the assailant)

 

And discontinuation of the phasewalk was certainly a nerf, which was useful in many situations. And very funny.

[olagatonjedi]

heh that just beats all

He just doesn't give anyone else credit. He's also created the game too. It was all from his mind.

[Evolixe]

That it's pretty stupid to require specific classes to defend in Hypergates because some simply cannot defend against a 1vs1 sapcap?

 

It's already that way right now. It's called tactics, maybe you should study it.

 

I experience it at least once a warzone in void and odessen. Perhaps it has to do with lag, but im usually at 69ms, so i doubt its my side.

 

Well yes, if the server and the client don't agree on your position the server determines what happens.

 

I played A LOT of PVP on my sentinel back in the days and it was often the case when i have spotted a stealther running next to me since he didnt use Blackout to increase his stealth level, that is impossible now. So a sentinel like me has almost 0 chances of finding a stealther roaming around, yes, that kinda sucks compared to a slinger in cover or mando/VG with stealth scam or Sage able to spam Force quake.

 

Like I said before, only people that didn't know how stealth worked ever had that happen to them.

You can't spot a stealther behind you, no matter the (stealth) level difference.

 

I honestly couldn't care less if it was removed, because it wouldn't change a thing for good sins.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Evolixe

[Evolixe]

Your method provides an additional anti-stealth mechanic, which is not needed, and you keep either ignoring it completely or writing it off as unimportant.

 

If it's not needed then I guess there is no problem and we don't really need this discussion.

 

But you're right, a 6s reveal every 30 seconds is not the best way to go about it. Just bring acid forward if a) no combat is initiated in 60 seconds from the match start, b) all survivors are out of combat for 30 seconds.

 

So you want even more games decided by acid rather than having them decided by the best fighter?

Seriously?

 

I've been lobbying to have acid removed as a whole and you just want more of it

Oh right, you play Sorc, that explains a lot.

[Schoock]

So you want even more games decided by acid rather than having them decided by the best fighter?

Seriously?

 

I've been lobbying to have acid removed as a whole and you just want more of it

Oh right, you play Sorc, that explains a lot.

 

If you're the best fighter, fight, and that's it.

 

I don't like acid either, but this discussion is not about whether acid is good or bad, but about stealthers making everyone wait minutes to get to acid. I merely offered a way to shorten that wait.

 

Please keep more personal insults coming, it's a good sign of you losing your ground.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Schoock

[Evolixe]

If you're the best fighter, fight, and that's it.

 

And how do you suppose I force that stealther to fight?

Or is there some magical reason why I can't be facing off against acidstrats being an Assassin myself?

 

 

I don't like acid either, but this discussion is not about whether acid is good or bad, but about stealthers making everyone wait minutes to get to acid. I merely offered a way to shorten that wait.

 

So did I. And while we are discussing a problem we might as well remove it all the way. Since the purpose of Acid is to end drawn out fights and the only games that make it to acid these days are the ones where people try to cheese a win.

 

Ending the cheese removes the need for acid to exist.

 

Please keep more personal insults coming, it's a good sign of you losing your ground.

 

Didn't know mentioning someone plays a Sorc is an insult? Lol.

Besides, Sorcs are hands down the best class to end up in the acid with. You can't lose if you don't muck up.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Evolixe

[Seterade]

I pretty much invented phase walk creativity, you don't have to tell me what it was used for.

I tries to word it simple so you would understand but it seems that didn't make any difference.

 

So let me try once more;

Dark Embrace = damage reduction = helps you stay alive.

Phase Walk = Escape

 

And what does an Escape do for you? Right, it allows you to get away.

By getting away you get to live to fight another day and as such serves the exact same function as Dark Embrace.

 

 

I would be all for having it gone and Phase Walk return. Holy **** yes please.

 

lel. its amusing for all your argueing you have not once mentioned 5.0s phantom stride or the legendary utility that came with it, a 60% def inc on a movement purge (force speed) for 2 seconds as well a movement purge on phantom stride.

 

Simple words? if you not careful your going to fall off that high horse.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Seterade

[leonlotus]

Stealth was not always like it is now.

If stealthers were not careful, or didnt acted with a level of ability, they could ruin party strategy. That component, the possibility of failure and right use of skills is what is missing now in many classes, with automated sucess, immunities, triggered effects, etc. The game is much straightforward, and that does make matches too predictable, also contributing for lack of balance.

Yes, every class has now their own component that must be revised, i am not just saying nerf stealth.

Edited September 2, 2017 by leonlotus

[Evolixe]

lel. its amusing for all your argueing you have not once mentioned 5.0s phantom stride or the legendary utility that came with it, a 60% def inc on a movement purge (force speed) for 2 seconds as well a movement purge on phantom stride.

 

Simple words? if you not careful your going to fall off that high horse.

 

And everyone else got something too. What is your point?

 

 

Besides, PS can only be used on an enemy target. And Deception uses it for damage as well.

It does not in any way shape or form provide survivability to the class the way PW did.

 

The Force Speed thing is nice, but you don't often get a chance to use it purely for surviving. Except in duelling.

Good players will see you used it without making distance and they will know that you are not going to make any getaways the next 15 seconds. An excellent time to unleash hell.

 

Nah.. it's not used for the damage reduction much at all. It's nice to be there but that's mostly a PvE/1v1 thing.

Thats kinda why it didn't get a mention.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Evolixe

[Alec_Fortescue]

You have a very bad solution to this problem both for PvP and for PvE.

What next? Maybe that 2 seconds stealth from ESO?

 

Afaik it's a solution used in WoW so people can't hide in arenas forever. Mind you WoW is the most popular mmo out there.

 

Can we get people who end up 2 or 3 v 1 in arenas and they just troll in stealth until acid for 2-4 minutes to stop doing so?!

 

This isn't a nerf or stealth class is op thread. This is about adding a mechanic which would hardly affect stealth classes in ranked performance but it would make it harder for them to troll the matches.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Alec_Fortescue