Just to reach out

[iEarl_ololo]

This topic is not for discussion or debate. Theme is to correct mistakes, which are already time-consuming, before conducting nerfs.

 

So starting with patch 4.x, I play the Sage seer and enjoy the correct cooldowns of abilities, if I add the experience of the game to other healers, we get a good pve & pvp healer. Then there is a transition to patch 5.0, where the developers say about the power nerfs, etc., but not a word about changing the cooldown of skills, not all, but most important in rotation. Further details.

 

Rejuvenate - the ability that has cd 5 seconds, gets 5.2. A trifle, however a very unpleasant little thing, if you read the following ability.

Healing trance - the ability that has a 6 bonus set with a CD of 6.3 seconds, gets 6.5. If I have not found Rejuvenate reasons, then Healing trance gets its answer to the bonus set, it gives a reduction of not 1.5 seconds, but 1.3. What can also be considered a small thing, but it is important to understand that this excess can not be removed by augmentation in Alakriti.

Well, finally, Deliverance - the ability to nerf having cast time with alacrity 1600+ 1.7 seconds, under Rejuvenate gets cast 1.3, but the ability of Conveyance gives us - 0.5, and we get activation time of 1.2 seconds. And now we add 1.2 + 0.25 we get 1.45, and not 1.51, that is, the activation time on the castbar will be 1.4 seconds, not 1.5.

 

After registration of the bug reports almost 6 months passed. And then there is information about the rebalance. And I begin to believe that now all the shortcomings will be fixed. However, I get an inadequate nerf and !!! absolutely no correction of the above problems. Which are supplemented by Soothing protection, which after the end of the buff does not heal.

 

Small errors, but the whole life, especially just a computer game, consists of small things.

 

Before carrying out tests in simulators, you need to be sure that everything is working properly, so dear developers, please first fix it, then you broke it at the start of 5.0, then test your nerf on the corrected one, and then roll back abilities and strengthen them on excessively cut 5-15%. And perhaps the most important thing, give us your right users and subscribers the opportunity to play on the characters we want, not you or weak players, thanks to which you suddenly decided that Swtor is a pvp game.

 

Thank you for your attention and try to make sure that experienced or new players do not see your mistakes for a long long time.

[maksimiliano]

Absolutely agree! I just wonder turning to developers, WHY do you hate sages/sorcerers in healing spec? It was really not so easy to perform this spec since you needed to recover source, and now it's IMPOSSIBLE! Sorcerer/sages in healing spec are the most focusable targets in PvP now, they can't heal enough long in PvE as well since they have to recover their source after 3-4 abilities. It's really shame you killed this spec definitively :(:(

[Ladyangellika]

This game is about the battles between Jedi and Sith. Fix our favorite healers and you will see that Swtor will be the best game!

[EvgenZasranec]

Indeed, dear developers. In fact, i see a big indifference to old fans of this game from your side. People like author of topic wasting their time and money btw, trying to help you to make right and good gameplay, in hopes that some points would be correct.

The author said "After registration of the bug reports almost 6 months passed....". He wrote really important things in those reports, we discussed it many times with him. And seer/corruption spec is not the only troubled class. Now we can see results and apparently the pointless to try and get through to you. It is regrettably.

I really love this game, since 2011, and i really want to continue play it. But like every normal buyer i want to use high quality product. SWTOR in 2017 far from it.

 

Thanks for attention, if someone else had read it of course

[jordgen]

Dear developers. When you create a new update to balance the classes, you see what and where you need to weaken or strengthen, but you do it with the help of special programs that show results for an ideal working class, which in reality does not work!!! Please, before updating the live client, try all the innovations on the PTS servers that are inviting to players who pass the NIM operation, and go to pvp (they have a high rating), and only after these people will tell you that the update is normal and it is possible to play, put it on live servers!!! And I have a huge requezt to you please please please do not change classes in favor of weak players, and don't try to make all Healers, Damagers and Tanks are the same!!! It may lead to good consequences!! Each should have its own unique feature, which will not the rest! I hope you will listen to me and to all those who wrote above, I really want to see this game lived...

[Ladyangellika]

Dear game developers! Please stop experimenting on players as if we are "lab rats".

[Gipatia]

I am totally agree with evrything that's spoken above. I enjoyed playing sage seer but you made playing impossible. I have to regen force after using 2 or 3 healing abilities, you just made it impossible to complete any NiM operations.

[HeBecTyJlKa]

FYI: BW are reading everything, although they rarely respond, they deleted a post of mine earlier today so someone did read it Edited July 16, 2017 by HeBecTyJlKa

[AdjeYo]

I am totally agree with evrything that's spoken above. I enjoyed playing sage seer but you made playing impossible. I have to regen force after using 2 or 3 healing abilities, you just made it impossible to complete any NiM operations.

 

I'd really like to see the abilities with costs upwards of 200 force that you have to regen after using 2 or 3 abilities. That said, sorc healing is still definitely adequate enough for all content. Not sure why Revivication was nerfed, considering sorc AoE healing is pretty bad, but aside from that Sorc heals needed to be nerfed as they were

[HeBecTyJlKa]

I'd really like to see the abilities with costs upwards of 200 force that you have to regen after using 2 or 3 abilities.

You clearly don't play Sorc and don't know how different the Resource Management is from the Mercs' / Ops'

[AdjeYo]

You clearly don't play Sorc and don't know how different the Resource Management is from the Mercs' / Ops'

I play sorc fairly regularly actually and I've yet to run low on force after 2 or 3 abilities

[Ladyangellika]

Players leave this game. If you wait for a few more weeks to correct your mistakes, then you will be left without money

[Hichitsuki-hime]

I play sorc fairly regularly actually and I've yet to run low on force after 2 or 3 abilities

depends really, if u remember to use vindicate often enough u shouldn't have much issues. but after heal intensive phase u might find urself out of force lol :D

[realleaftea]

Rejuvenate - the ability that has cd 5 seconds, gets 5.2. A trifle, however a very unpleasant little thing, if you read the following ability.

 

Healing trance - the ability that has a 6 bonus set with a CD of 6.3 seconds, gets 6.5. If I have not found Rejuvenate reasons, then Healing trance gets its answer to the bonus set, it gives a reduction of not 1.5 seconds, but 1.3. What can also be considered a small thing, but it is important to understand that this excess can not be removed by augmentation in Alakriti.

 

Well, finally, Deliverance - the ability to nerf having cast time with alacrity 1600+ 1.7 seconds, under Rejuvenate gets cast 1.3, but the ability of Conveyance gives us - 0.5, and we get activation time of 1.2 seconds. And now we add 1.2 + 0.25 we get 1.45, and not 1.51, that is, the activation time on the castbar will be 1.4 seconds, not 1.5.

Have you ever considered other reasons than mischievous, hidden nerfs? Have you checked your alacrity rate? Furthermore, I wouldn't count on the fact that alacrity is applied before all the remaining stuff like set bonuses or skill-based cooldown reductions. In my opinion, the opposite is the case... alacrity seems to be applied last.

 

Rejuvenate with a cooldown of 5.2s instead of 6s means that your alacrity cut it down to 86.67% (i.e. 0.8667).

So let's use this number:

 

Healing Trance

If I apply this to a 7.5s cooldown of Healing Trance - i.e. applying the 1.5s cooldown reduction of the set bonus first, the result will be 6.5s ( 7.5 * 0.8667).

 

Old Deliverance

Likewise, applying the 86.67% to a base activation time of 2.0s for Deliverance, we will get 1.73s. Thanks to Conveyance, the base activation time is lowered to 1.5s - i.e. applying the Conveyance bonus first. And the final result including alacrity is an activation time of 1.3s (1.5 * 0.8667).

 

New Deliverance

With the latest changes to Conveyance, the activation time is lowered by only 0.25s, resulting in a base activation time of 1.75s - i.e. applying the Conveyance bonus first. Counting in the 86.67% due to alacrity, we will get a final activation time of 1.51667s (1.75 * 0.8667).

 

So if you ask me, everything seems fine.

Edited July 20, 2017 by realleaftea

[Ladyangellika]

sarcasm?

[iEarl_ololo]

Have you ever considered other reasons than mischievous, hidden nerfs? Have you checked your alacrity rate? Furthermore, I wouldn't count on the fact that alacrity is applied before all the remaining stuff like set bonuses or skill-based cooldown reductions. In my opinion, the opposite is the case... alacrity seems to be applied last.

 

Rejuvenate with a cooldown of 5.2s instead of 6s means that your alacrity cut it down to 86.67% (i.e. 0.8667).

So let's use this number:

 

Healing Trance

If I apply this to a 7.5s cooldown of Healing Trance - i.e. applying the 1.5s cooldown reduction of the set bonus first, the result will be 6.5s ( 7.5 * 0.8667).

 

Old Deliverance

Likewise, applying the 86.67% to a base activation time of 2.0s for Deliverance, we will get 1.73s. Thanks to Conveyance, the base activation time is lowered to 1.5s - i.e. applying the Conveyance bonus first. And the final result including alacrity is an activation time of 1.3s (1.5 * 0.8667).

 

New Deliverance

With the latest changes to Conveyance, the activation time is lowered by only 0.25s, resulting in a base activation time of 1.75s - i.e. applying the Conveyance bonus first. Counting in the 86.67% due to alacrity, we will get a final activation time of 1.51667s (1.75 * 0.8667).

 

So if you ask me, everything seems fine.

 

As I said in patch 4.x, the work of the calculation system as described by me above. Your calculation is clear to me, but if you go the way it worked. As you already established, the Alacrity ratio is equal to 0.8667.

And according to your calculations, everything seems to be correct, but let's look at the calculation that worked earlier.

 

Remove the bonus set completely, without affecting alacrity. Healing trance is 9 sec, multiplying by 0.8667 is 7.8 sec and adding a bonus set minus 1.5 sec, we get what was before patch 5.0, the value is 6.3 sec.

We take the same calculation of the original CD and only then we take away the value of passive abilities and / or the bonus set. Deliverance CD 2 sec (old version of the action Rejuvenate) multiply by 0.8667 get 1.7334 minus 0.5 equal to 1.2334 seconds, (new version) 2 * 0.8667 - 0.25 = 1.4834 seconds.

That's what I wrote about right after the transition to the current patch 5.x, the calculation system was based on: the standard CD * value of Alacrity - passive ability and / or bonus set.

And in fact the value of the set bonus and / or passive ability is constant and must be subtracted from the already calculated value of the CD ability, otherwise it leads to false calculations there.

Hence we conclude that in a particular case the passive capacity and / or set bonus ceased to have a constant value, which apparently led to this CD calculation when switching to patch 5.x.

 

I gave an example of the calculation that was, you gave an example of how it is considered now. I wrote about this at the beginning of the topic. It is important for developers to understand that the system has changed, to determine whether it is right and to give an answer. After all, even if the system of priorities for settlements changes, this should be reported to the players.

 

Well, in the end without mathematics, it does not seem strange to you that -1.5 is written, and at the output -1.3.

 

p.s. And thank you for not being too lazy to count.

Edited July 20, 2017 by iEarl_ololo

[Purgamentorum]

You clearly don't play Sorc and don't know how different the Resource Management is from the Mercs' / Ops'

 

Yeah merc can burn their resources in a burst window and have to wait for a cooldown to regenerate at any decent rate. Ops have to avoid interrupts so rarely get the chance to play whac a rat with their resource eating best case heals. Sorcs had it far to easy and now are still top of the tree but with easy mode heals. Try playing a merc or an operative and realise how easy sorcs still are.

[realleaftea]

As I said in patch 4.x, the work of the calculation system as described by me above. [...]

And according to your calculations, everything seems to be correct, but let's look at the calculation that worked earlier.

 

Remove the bonus set completely, without affecting alacrity. Healing trance is 9 sec, multiplying by 0.8667 is 7.8 sec and adding a bonus set minus 1.5 sec, we get what was before patch 5.0, the value is 6.3 sec.

Well, you stated that Rejuvenation changed from a 5.0s to a 5.2s cooldown. But there's nothing except alacrity that lowers the cooldown (i.e. neither a set bonus nor a conveyance bonus). That's why I asked you if you're sure about the alacrity rate you use.

 

We take the same calculation of the original CD and only then we take away the value of passive abilities and / or the bonus set. Deliverance CD 2 sec (old version of the action Rejuvenate) multiply by 0.8667 get 1.7334 minus 0.5 equal to 1.2334 seconds, (new version) 2 * 0.8667 - 0.25 = 1.4834 seconds.

Sure, if you switch the order in which you apply these bonuses, the result will be different. Likewise, you achieve a different result, if you use the current formula, but a different alacrity rate. So it really depends on whether the 5.0s cooldown for your 'old' Rejuvenation was correct or not. In case it was, the old alacrity rate would have lowered everything to approx. 83.34% (5.0 / 6.0). And if I apply this alacrity rate to the current formula, I get:

 

Resurgence: 6 * 0.8334 = 5.0

Healing Trance: 7.5 * 0.8334 = 6.25

Pure Deliverence: 2 * 0.8334 = 1.667

With Conveyance: 1.5 * 0.8334 = 1.25

 

In other words, these values would be close to the 'old' results you've mentioned. And that means it's hard to tell how the results were calculated. I even checked Bant's character sheet formulas to see if I can get more informations, but he only talks about "Time Averaged Usage". So it depends on whether that includes set bonuses and situational Conveyance bonuses or not.

 

And in fact the value of the set bonus and / or passive ability is constant and must be subtracted from the already calculated value of the CD ability, otherwise it leads to false calculations there. [...] I gave an example of the calculation that was, you gave an example of how it is considered now.

 

Well, in the end without mathematics, it does not seem strange to you that -1.5 is written, and at the output -1.3.

Well... It's not really a 'mistake' to calculate things in a different order. Other MMOs I know do it exactly the way it is right now... i.e. first applying all numerical bonuses (f.e. a flat +500 HP bonus) and then appling any percentual alterations (f.e. a +50% HP bonus).

 

A full example: 1000 base HP; a flat +500 HP bonus and a 50% HP boost.

 

Applying the percentual bonus first

1000 * 1.5 + 500 = 2000 HP

 

Applying the flat numerical bonus first

(1000 + 500) * 1.5 = 2250 HP

 

So it's hard to state that one way is right and the other is wrong. Actually, I don't have a problem if the set bonuses and Conveyance bonuses are modifications of the base value (i.e. applying the flat bonuses first).

Edited July 21, 2017 by realleaftea

[Ladyangellika]

The way the game works, you can count on different formulas, even according to Leonard Euler's equation). Only characters from this will not get better! For them, the programmers answer, and what they have in their heads, no one knows!

[Chelz]

1000 * 1.5 + 500 would never = 2250 in any math class I ever took. Order of operations no?