JHeezey Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 DPS Vanguard/Powertech: the saga of sadness will continue. It looks like most of the planned class balance updates for 5.3 revolve around small changes to damage percentages and resource utilization. While these are certainly needed, especially for the Plasmatechs, they do little to address the underlying issue that plagues DPS vanguards in PvP: we have laughably little survivability. It is true that we can be somewhat viable with a competent healer to keep us alive, but our paper-thin defenses mean that we are highly susceptible to focused burst in 4v4's (exploited brutally in ranked), and that we are unable to guard/take objectives because we lose 1v1s to every other class as long as they are being played by a similarly-geared, similarly-skilled player. What this means is that our experience in PvP is largely limited to having to tag along with the main force of teammates in an 8v8 and slog through the wet-noodle fight that is the current tank/healer focused meta. What I would like to see is a viable DPS Vanguard class that can shake-up the status quo in a Warzone by taking the initiative to flip an objective by outplaying another class in a 1v1. We currently do not have this capability. A Vanguard can pop every offensive and defensive CD they have and still get countered by a less-skilled player whose class has more powerful cooldowns (jug/guardian are some of the worst offenders). Maybe Bioware has a larger update to class balance planned, but all evidence is currently to the contrary. Until they make significant changes to the vanguard class, these small damage buffs will do little to make our class viable in PvP. I guess I was too optimistic that Bioware would take some risks with 5.3, but it appears that DPS Vanguard will remain a poor choice for the serious PvP player. Responses to anticipated criticism: 1. You're just bad at PvP. - It's true, I'm not the best, but I wouldn't consider myself bad either. I have played long enough to be in almost full 248 gear and am confident that I use my abilities close to their full potential. The last ~10-15% of improved performance I could squeeze out of my class wouldn't fix the underlying class issues. 2. I play Vanguard and I don't have this problem. Just play smarter. - I would ask you how many hours you've played the class and under what conditions. Again, we're fine in operating inside the massive slugfest where healers can keep us alive. I'm talking about the corner case where we have to fight solo or with a partner at an objective. Additionally, I can stomp new PvP players like everyone else. Have you been noob-bashing or have you actually had to fight that stun-locking, self-healing, root/slowing, damage-cancelling, movement-boosting, stealth-bursting operative on an objective? 3. This sounds like the Commando/Merc debacle all over again. - Simple changes to our existing DCDs would address our class' issues. We don't need the god-shield or heal bubble. We could get by with allowing adrenaline rush to heal you up to 75% with 2x the heal rate, plus a small buff to our shield's damage reduction. An added bonus of such changes is that they have minimal impact on the balance of PvE content because our DPS doesn't change. Anyway, just my thoughts. It feels good to write this down - even if Bioware won't do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetideus Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) It is the Commando/Merc argument. PTs survivability is directly related to mass merc rerolling and ranged casting in the wzs. There is no reflect or inherent damage reduction (or stealth...) for the spec and no "leave me alone" cd. Edited June 25, 2017 by Aetideus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volxen Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 DPS Vanguard/Powertech: the saga of sadness will continue. It looks like most of the planned class balance updates for 5.3 revolve around small changes to damage percentages and resource utilization. While these are certainly needed, especially for the Plasmatechs, they do little to address the underlying issue that plagues DPS vanguards in PvP: we have laughably little survivability. It is true that we can be somewhat viable with a competent healer to keep us alive, but our paper-thin defenses mean that we are highly susceptible to focused burst in 4v4's (exploited brutally in ranked), and that we are unable to guard/take objectives because we lose 1v1s to every other class as long as they are being played by a similarly-geared, similarly-skilled player. What this means is that our experience in PvP is largely limited to having to tag along with the main force of teammates in an 8v8 and slog through the wet-noodle fight that is the current tank/healer focused meta. What I would like to see is a viable DPS Vanguard class that can shake-up the status quo in a Warzone by taking the initiative to flip an objective by outplaying another class in a 1v1. We currently do not have this capability. A Vanguard can pop every offensive and defensive CD they have and still get countered by a less-skilled player whose class has more powerful cooldowns (jug/guardian are some of the worst offenders). Maybe Bioware has a larger update to class balance planned, but all evidence is currently to the contrary. Until they make significant changes to the vanguard class, these small damage buffs will do little to make our class viable in PvP. I guess I was too optimistic that Bioware would take some risks with 5.3, but it appears that DPS Vanguard will remain a poor choice for the serious PvP player. Responses to anticipated criticism: 1. You're just bad at PvP. - It's true, I'm not the best, but I wouldn't consider myself bad either. I have played long enough to be in almost full 248 gear and am confident that I use my abilities close to their full potential. The last ~10-15% of improved performance I could squeeze out of my class wouldn't fix the underlying class issues. 2. I play Vanguard and I don't have this problem. Just play smarter. - I would ask you how many hours you've played the class and under what conditions. Again, we're fine in operating inside the massive slugfest where healers can keep us alive. I'm talking about the corner case where we have to fight solo or with a partner at an objective. Additionally, I can stomp new PvP players like everyone else. Have you been noob-bashing or have you actually had to fight that stun-locking, self-healing, root/slowing, damage-cancelling, movement-boosting, stealth-bursting operative on an objective? 3. This sounds like the Commando/Merc debacle all over again. - Simple changes to our existing DCDs would address our class' issues. We don't need the god-shield or heal bubble. We could get by with allowing adrenaline rush to heal you up to 75% with 2x the heal rate, plus a small buff to our shield's damage reduction. An added bonus of such changes is that they have minimal impact on the balance of PvE content because our DPS doesn't change. Anyway, just my thoughts. It feels good to write this down - even if Bioware won't do anything about it. Sadly, it's not just the DPS specs that need help -- it's the entire vanguard class. Vanguard tank is literally one of the squishiest classes in PVP -- it's even more squishy than gunnery commando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) as a guardian who plays both tank and vigi I will say gunnery/arsenal is currently more survivable than any tank just give them guard and a taunt. As a vigi guardian primary for pvp I will say I'm disappointed by the focus being only on pure damage numbers. VG/PT in particular need the DCDs. You guys truly got screwed by mercs in 5.0 lol. Edited June 26, 2017 by KendraP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuskyBoy Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) DCD and utility changes will come after the PVP season has finished in 5.4. Rightly or wrongly the devs believe changing utilities/DCD'd during the season can greatly affect the oucome of rankings in particular classes. What changes are made who knows but I think it's almost certain PT/VG are going to get buffed significantly in this area. Edited June 26, 2017 by MuskyBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teclado Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 It seems like they intended AP to be a glass cannon in pvp, but they didn't really give it enough of a cannon and it ended up more like a paper 45mm. Pyro was just kind of forgotten about, I guess. Nobody really plays that anyway, right? Anybody who can count should be able to see the massive difference between Arsenal and AP DCDs. Trying to play AP in arenas is cancerous. Spam taunts, use guard, and you will get basically zero protection - because everybody is drawing a bead on you. A 35% KO is pretty near useless, consider you can be burst through 35% in 1-2 shots. So that leaves some slight passive damage reductions and Energy Shield. I feel so safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikosong Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I'm honestly starting to think they don't know what they are doing, class wise or rather they don't care. HOw can they leave: dps PT (dcds) Lightning/madness sorc (pvp/pve dps) MM sniper (pve dps) Engi sniper (ridiculous probe spam) Merc (OTT dcd) Like this for so very long? Pvp balance is just horrible at the minute. the dps issues means players of certain classes and specs CANNOT do certain content. To have classes and specs in the game that CANNOT do the content in the game is just flat out ludicrous! At THIS point in the game's life? I'd love to see the justifications for it from the devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 A 35% KO is pretty near useless, consider you can be burst through 35% in 1-2 shots. So that leaves some slight passive damage reductions and Energy Shield. I feel so safe. +1 Yeah, that basically explains it all right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavrinDosa Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 give pt trauma regulators and boom! balance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 give pt trauma regulators and boom! balance Yea, cuz we need more idiots running around with second lives on a DPS spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavrinDosa Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Yea, cuz we need more idiots running around with second lives on a DPS spec. You think giving a melee class with no dcd, one dcd is overpowered? Have you played jugg? Do you even play pt bruh? You can't reduce a glass cannons range to 10 and expect them to compete with other classes when their defense is next to nothing. Give them one solid dcd to even things up. Or increase their range and minor dcds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omaan Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 We need buff to defenses... this spec is very bad in pvp, it's dying in few seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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