Engi snipers > Nerf pls.

[Purgamentorum]

Juggers are masters of dual life, surviving, coming back and stuff. That's what they do. That's who they are. If juggsters are to be buffed DPS wise, then I don't wanna have to kill them twice anymore. Then they'll have to accomodate with no second life, no guard etc. That's how it works. Either tank, or DPS. Not both.

 

totally agree I meant dps jugs I do not play one so shouldn't really comment but they don't seem to do that well

[Icykill_]

Okay after they nerf snipers and mercs, what class are you going to be stomping your feet about next that you want nerf.

 

/nerf operatives (jokes)

[Icykill_]

totally agree I meant dps jugs I do not play one so shouldn't really comment but they don't seem to do that well

 

All Juggs need is their mobility back that got nerfed.

[verfallen]

All Juggs need is their mobility back that got nerfed.

 

How did jug mobility get nerfed? They didnt lose anything afaik, and with ravage becoming instant even gained some for veng. For the rest, they are damn mobile and hard to kite with the right utilties.

 

 

Btw in link to this thread, did it again today.

 

I don't always play engi, but when I do....

 

Voidstar, on the offense, once we got through the 1st door I was a one man road block with the probe.

 

Slap probe behind me, they manage to pass slap another, one pops HO? Mez, stun etc. Just got through? Cover pulse, right back in it. one pulling off? SoS 80% snare to pause him, PP to really stuck him there.

 

We got to core door after door. with no opposition. Or more accurataly my team did while I was having a snare party with the defenders. When we got last door, they were FINALLY managing to get off the 2nd access corridor to the hangar bay forcefield area. And the guy that did manage it first is the HO PT that got a flashbang as a reward for his efforts. So yes, spamming 70% PP is wayyyyy overtuned lol.

Edited April 1, 2017 by verfallen

[BaineOs]

Voidstar, on the offense, once we got through the 1st door I was a one man road block with the probe.

 

Slap probe behind me, they manage to pass slap another, one pops HO? Mez, stun etc. Just got through? Cover pulse, right back in it. one pulling off? SoS 80% snare to pause him, PP to really stuck him there.

 

We got to core door after door. with no opposition. Or more accurataly my team did while I was having a snare party with the defenders. When we got last door, they were FINALLY managing to get off the 2nd access corridor to the hangar bay forcefield area. And the guy that did manage it first is the HO PT that got a flashbang as a reward for his efforts. So yes, spamming 70% PP is wayyyyy overtuned lol.

Congratulations my friend! For you are years behind the times! ....Specifically 9th September 2014

 

What you are describing is nothing new, well at least you got there eventually eh? So....why weren't you complaining before? In fact why wasn't anyone complaining like this before?

 

Engineering has always been a fairly strong spec for those that knew how to use it, though that's not to say the spec hasn't had it's problems.

 

In fact I have to say, the amount of idiocy in this thread is beyond belief. So much so that yes....I really am insane enough to reactivate my account just to make this post. When I was playing, I was probably one of the few that mained an engineering sniper for five years. Oh I know I wasn't the only one, but we are few and far between, and there are few who have as many snipers as I have. I am by no means the best at the class or even the spec, I am most certainly not that good at duelling, but what I do know.....is engineering.

 

Lets take a look at the patch notes for 2.10 shall we?

Plasma Probe has been redesigned!

Plasma Probe no longer has a cooldown. An Engineer can only have one Plasma Probe deployed at a time.

Damage is now distributed evenly throughout the Probe’s duration, and is dealt every 1 second.

Overall damage dealt by the Probe has been increased.

A target under the effect of Interrogation Probe who is hit by any Plasma Probe damage (not just the initial strike) is now stunned. A target can only be stunned once every 18 seconds.

Plasma probe had a cooldown from launch all the way up to this patch, the cooldown was 18 seconds. The slow was also a 50% slow.

 

Do you want to know why this change went in?

 

The devs stated that engineering was one of the only specs in the game that should be using AOE as part of it's single target rotation. It's even more important to that rotation considering what they've done to EMP discharge and the stun. You see, originally that 2 sec stun would only occur on the initial target, then they changed it in 2.10 and they changed it again when they gutted the spec in the 3.0 era.

 

The damage was front loaded, not distributed evenly like it I today. But with all of this, the PVE players couldn't make much use of the skill in their operations. Those changes in the patch notes I quoted was the result.

 

But then that 50% slow we had, well you see that was a problem. Why? Because now that the damage wasn't front loaded, 50% was just too short. People could simply walk out of it, that stun we have on EMP discharge was impossible. And so they put the slow to 70%

 

So now of course what they've done is increase the AOE to 8m and you are all complaining? lol

 

I'm sorry but plasma probe is just too well entrenched within our rotation to be changed in how some of you would believe.

 

You put the cooldown back on, that causes a big problem for PVE.

 

You change the slow, you risk the damage plasma probe does becoming useless, you also make that 2 second stun, which incidentally is there to help the target stay in long enough for the damage to actually do it's stuff, much harder to get off.

 

Putting the cooldown back on, is not the answer

Reducing the % of the slow, is not the answer

 

Reduce the healing that the ballistic shield utility gives us (which lets face it was far too much, it needs to be nerfed), and put the AOE radius back to what it was previously.

 

That's the fix all of you should be asking for.

 

Oh, and for the record...I was against the changes to plasma probe in 2.10, (though I understood and recognised the need for pve players). I preferred the 18 sec duration/cool down, front loaded version. You think you have problems in voidstar now? Trust me, you do NOT want that version back. Not in today's game.....ohhhhh the memories

Edited April 1, 2017 by BaineOs

[Xhuuyaa]

Putting the cooldown back on, is not the answer

Reducing the % of the slow, is not the answer:D

 

Maybe you should play melee classes. If youre slowed down to 70% half of the match, its so much fun that more and more melee classes just leave.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Congratulations my friend! For you are years behind the times! ....Specifically 9th September 2014

 

What you are describing is nothing new, well at least you got there eventually eh? So....why weren't you complaining before? In fact why wasn't anyone complaining like this before?

 

Engineering has always been a fairly strong spec for those that knew how to use it, though that's not to say the spec hasn't had it's problems.

 

In fact I have to say, the amount of idiocy in this thread is beyond belief. So much so that yes....I really am insane enough to reactivate my account just to make this post. When I was playing, I was probably one of the few that mained an engineering sniper for five years. Oh I know I wasn't the only one, but we are few and far between, and there are few who have as many snipers as I have. I am by no means the best at the class or even the spec, I am most certainly not that good at duelling, but what I do know.....is engineering.

 

Lets take a look at the patch notes for 2.10 shall we?

 

Plasma probe had a cooldown from launch all the way up to this patch, the cooldown was 18 seconds. The slow was also a 50% slow.

 

Do you want to know why this change went in?

 

The devs stated that engineering was one of the only specs in the game that should be using AOE as part of it's single target rotation. It's even more important to that rotation considering what they've done to EMP discharge and the stun. You see, originally that 2 sec stun would only occur on the initial target, then they changed it in 2.10 and they changed it again when they gutted the spec in the 3.0 era.

 

The damage was front loaded, not distributed evenly like it I today. But with all of this, the PVE players couldn't make much use of the skill in their operations. Those changes in the patch notes I quoted was the result.

 

But then that 50% slow we had, well you see that was a problem. Why? Because now that the damage wasn't front loaded, 50% was just too short. People could simply walk out of it, that stun we have on EMP discharge was impossible. And so they put the slow to 70%

 

So now of course what they've done is increase the AOE to 8m and you are all complaining? lol

 

I'm sorry but plasma probe is just too well entrenched within our rotation to be changed in how some of you would believe.

 

You put the cooldown back on, that causes a big problem for PVE.

 

You change the slow, you risk the damage plasma probe does becoming useless, you also make that 2 second stun, which incidentally is there to help the target stay in long enough for the damage to actually do it's stuff, much harder to get off.

 

Putting the cooldown back on, is not the answer

Reducing the % of the slow, is not the answer

 

Reduce the healing that the ballistic shield utility gives us (which lets face it was far too much, it needs to be nerfed), and put the AOE radius back to what it was previously.

 

That's the fix all of you should be asking for.

 

Oh, and for the record...I was against the changes to plasma probe in 2.10, (though I understood and recognised the need for pve players). I preferred the 18 sec duration/cool down, front loaded version. You think you have problems in voidstar now? Trust me, you do NOT want that version back. Not in today's game.....ohhhhh the memories

 

Coming from another player who has preferred engineering since starting Sniper back in 2014, I applaud this post.

[LeglessChair]

imho, the OP survivability of the class is the problem. Not the spec.

[Purgamentorum]

imho, the OP survivability of the class is the problem. Not the spec.

 

Increasing survivability and keeping high dps is what breaks the game. That's why engineering is now a problem. The ttk is through the rough on a spec that is designed to aoe. The slows are just annoying and at 70% just ruining the fun element. Bioware needs to make this game an MMO again and make all classes rely on the presence of others.

 

Lose the cover defences now they have so much on the skill table, like Operatives had to.

[Thaladan]

more plasma probe, less ambush so stop whining about this it's ridiculous.

 

plasma probe was better before with a 18sec duration, a stun more easy without be obliged to use emp discharge (just the dot+plasma probe)

 

problem are mercs and sorc heal, snipers and even sorc lightning just benefit of this huge imbalance between range and melee.

 

i played sniper engi since 2.0 and i second my former mate baineOs. and all the new engi sniper i see are bad for the most part and they will see that engi is not stronger thatn the other 2 sniper's spec.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Thaladan

[DarkSaberMaster]

I never thought I would ever see the day when people would call for a nerf on Snipers. Especially engineering. It is not the easiest Sniper spec to play effectively. But the thing is, it has always been strong. I just can't believe that it took y'all all these years to figure out that engineering is a powerful area denial spec.

[verfallen]

Congratulations my friend! For you are years behind the times! ....Specifically 9th September 2014

 

What you are describing is nothing new, well at least you got there eventually eh? So....why weren't you complaining before? In fact why wasn't anyone complaining like this before?

 

Engineering has always been a fairly strong spec for those that knew how to use it, though that's not to say the spec hasn't had it's problems.

 

In fact I have to say, the amount of idiocy in this thread is beyond belief. So much so that yes....I really am insane enough to reactivate my account just to make this post. When I was playing, I was probably one of the few that mained an engineering sniper for five years. Oh I know I wasn't the only one, but we are few and far between, and there are few who have as many snipers as I have. I am by no means the best at the class or even the spec, I am most certainly not that good at duelling, but what I do know.....is engineering.

 

Lets take a look at the patch notes for 2.10 shall we?

 

Plasma probe had a cooldown from launch all the way up to this patch, the cooldown was 18 seconds. The slow was also a 50% slow.

 

Do you want to know why this change went in?

 

The devs stated that engineering was one of the only specs in the game that should be using AOE as part of it's single target rotation. It's even more important to that rotation considering what they've done to EMP discharge and the stun. You see, originally that 2 sec stun would only occur on the initial target, then they changed it in 2.10 and they changed it again when they gutted the spec in the 3.0 era.

 

The damage was front loaded, not distributed evenly like it I today. But with all of this, the PVE players couldn't make much use of the skill in their operations. Those changes in the patch notes I quoted was the result.

 

But then that 50% slow we had, well you see that was a problem. Why? Because now that the damage wasn't front loaded, 50% was just too short. People could simply walk out of it, that stun we have on EMP discharge was impossible. And so they put the slow to 70%

 

So now of course what they've done is increase the AOE to 8m and you are all complaining? lol

 

I'm sorry but plasma probe is just too well entrenched within our rotation to be changed in how some of you would believe.

 

You put the cooldown back on, that causes a big problem for PVE.

 

You change the slow, you risk the damage plasma probe does becoming useless, you also make that 2 second stun, which incidentally is there to help the target stay in long enough for the damage to actually do it's stuff, much harder to get off.

 

Putting the cooldown back on, is not the answer

Reducing the % of the slow, is not the answer

 

Reduce the healing that the ballistic shield utility gives us (which lets face it was far too much, it needs to be nerfed), and put the AOE radius back to what it was previously.

 

That's the fix all of you should be asking for.

 

Oh, and for the record...I was against the changes to plasma probe in 2.10, (though I understood and recognised the need for pve players). I preferred the 18 sec duration/cool down, front loaded version. You think you have problems in voidstar now? Trust me, you do NOT want that version back. Not in today's game.....ohhhhh the memories

 

The fact is in pvp, you have snares vs snare break. A melee that uses a movement impairing purge should not be able to just reslap one on him the second after while you roll off, and cannot be leapt too. Absolutely NO snare in game at 70% are spammable. Much less aoes.

 

The fact that the class with that aoe snare also has 2 roots (1 single target, one linked to kbaoe) with 50% snares attached, a possible 80% for 3 sec (and a build up before, so 3 more sec of snaring) every 9 second (since SoS got reduced cd for Engi), A shorter cd hardstun, an instant mez (they aren't the only one, but among the ranged both merc and sorc have cast on it, altough in pvp most merc use their power surge to bypass it), a 2nd 2 sec hardstun on a 18 seconds cooldown if PP is on target, is immune to leap, immune to controlling effect roughly 50% of the time, has a kb on the sus-mentionned 80% snare if target is withing 10m too.

 

Your argument is : the dev have stated we're special!

 

So it means people must facetank your tech elemental damage? I think not. Not when you base off classes off their mobility, which is the way they see melee, and then give a ranged class more mobility and more ways to reduce the one of their opponents than nearly any class.

 

I have nothing against the radius. I have nothing against the damage. Hell, personnally i agree when you slap it on someone that used all their movement breaking effect, they should feel it. Also, in pvp you can, if you know people are going to walk out ready the target for the emp discharge, and PP is the last thing you put on them before stunning them in it.

 

I personnaly think 18 seconds cd on it is too much, 9 would work perfectly. Its still faster than even a sorc's force speed movement immunity break, and keep the 70% snare.

 

Otherwise, keep the no cooldown, and reduce the snare to 40%.

 

Seriously, I dare you to play against a good sniper with a marauder or jug. The only reason some have success is they are rage/fury and obliterate works on target in cover, and most good snipers will use the probe smartly as a perma snare, and their other actual snares and roots as a pause while they replace their perma snare.

 

In pve also, its mostly about where you put the PP compared to boss movement, and too much movement, cooldown or not, means engi is most likely not going to be used for the fight, as you'd run into energy issue.

 

Its a fact that not all specs are good for all fight. they can all somewhat work, but some lose a lot of their damage potential.

 

The fact the thing parses over 10k also kinda hint at the dev balancing it thinking "some of the damage will be hard to totally land when going from dummy to live target".

Edited April 1, 2017 by verfallen

[BaineOs]

The fact that the class with that aoe snare also has 2 roots (1 single target, one linked to kbaoe) with 50% snares attached, a possible 80% for 3 sec (and a build up before, so 3 more sec of snaring) every 9 second (since SoS got reduced cd for Engi), A shorter cd hardstun, an instant mez (they aren't the only one, but among the ranged both merc and sorc have cast on it, altough in pvp most merc use their power surge to bypass it), a 2nd 2 sec hardstun on a 18 seconds cooldown if PP is on target, is immune to leap, immune to controlling effect roughly 50% of the time, has a kb on the sus-mentionned 80% snare if target is withing 10m too.

 

You forgot the root from covered escape!

 

No that is not my argument, but I'm not surprised that's how you took my post. For the record I have all the classes, not that I'm that good on them mind...because....I prefer engineering. See...there's this thing I said about Engineering being my main spec/class. I would tell you just how many snipers I have but in all honesty I lost count after 15

 

What I can tell you, is you sound like someone who hasn't come across an engineering sniper before. Now that I can understand, historically we've been a rarity, so of course there's going to be a ton of players that just simply don't know what to do.

 

I mean....for those veteran engineers out there....don't you just love it in voidstar when they try and plant at the door...when you've dropped a plasma probe. I mean most normal people would recognise what's happening and focus the sniper but nup....they continue to stand there....still trying to plant. Ohhhh the hilarity of it all!

 

Anyway sorry, as I was saying. So....ya. Kill the snipers, no more plasma probes. Having problems? You know...might be something to do with that heal we've got - hence why it needs to be nerfed!

 

You don't like the defensive resets snipers have? well...I got news for you my friend! ....it's a rip off from the original EMP discharge which they turned into a damage skill back in 3.0. In fact, I would go as far as saying...engineering has been shafted skill wise ever since the insanity of 3.0

 

Of course back in the good ol days all it used to do was reset the cooldowns on shield probe, entrench, adrenaline probe, covered escape was added in 2.0, back then of course it was on a one minute cooldown.. That 2.0 we were plagued with problems, which I won't go into here, but we were still pretty strong. In 3.0 we were gutted and had significant defensive weaknesses. In 4.0 they brought back our resets on a 3 minute cooldown but also added evasion, covered escape, and countermeasures. This pretty much sorted out defensive issues but with the sorc healers the lack of our own self healing was detrimental and definitely felt.

 

In 5.0? They gave us self healing with the 10% on covered escape (which I like, use emp discharge and another 10%) and ballistic shield (60%). So we've gone from a state where we had zero self healing (sorry but vital regulators didn't....and still doesn't class as healing in my book...useless utility), to a grand total of 80% healing if we do it right.

 

80% healing.....with those resets?

 

Is it sinking in yet?

 

Are you getting an idea as to what the problem is?

 

That perhaps.....just maybe....once nerfed to a more reasonable level, and a decrease to that new range for plasma probe is all that needs to happen?

 

Everything else is not an issue

 

and omg...that last dude who said for cover to be removed for snipers. Does he have ANY idea as to what that would do to the class if it was removed?

[betaku]

I laughed at seeing some suggestions...

[verfallen]

Y*TEXT*

 

I'm replacing what you said by text, not as a mean to say its not good, but simply to avoid double wall of text, and illustrate I'm answering you .

 

I've got experience playing as engi and against engi. I play most spec, or played them at one point enough to have a decent opinion on them, even if I didnt become an expert of each.

 

Issue with what you are saying, is MM and Viru are not in a bad place. they are good in what they do, with all the control I mentionned, but vulnerabilities if you know how to counter them. Their snare and kb are also more limited, and re-establishing range is not as easy for them.

 

If you are a merc, engi sniper's PP is at is, they can facetank you.

 

If you are a sorc dps or melee tough, there is a STARK difference in fighting a good engi sniper or a good viru or MM sniper. The current self-heal inside the Ballistic shield isnt that bad tbh. It only applies to the sniper, its a long cooldown, and it can be pressured through. Its a good 1vs1 tool, and its good in arenas to a point. Its also impossible to take both the cd reduction on BS and the heal, AND the heal on covered escape, as it would require 3 legendary utilities.

 

Overall, I consider sniper and marauder are in good place pvp wise. They have good defensives, but they are still a valid focus target contrary to merc's current state. The only issue with sniper, is the tools for all 3 spec, combined with the 2nd stun, 8 second SoS KB/snare, and 8m AoE snare on PP of engineering.

 

And imo, I understand you really like engineering, its a unique spec, but its easier to fix 1 ability in 1 spec than overhaul a whole AC. Because the issue is a 70% aoe snare multiply all of the previously mentionned defensives, and its glaring for melees and classes like sorc dps that have to LoS/hit and run the sniper, as going into a burst race with ANY sniper class is a sure loss. Even for mercs.

[Icykill_]

The last 2 days of play (16 hours total, half mids and half lvl 70) there aren't many snipers and even less engineering snipers than any other class.

For every 1 sniper/GS in a match there can be (this is total combined for both teams)

4-8mercs/mandos

4-6sins/Shadows

3-4maras/Sents

3-4Sorc/sage

2-3juggs/Guardian

2-3ops/scoundrel

1-2PT/VG

 

The second highest represented class I'm seeing is Sins and Shadows. Mercs are still dominating the percentage of players. Maras and Sent are well represented. Still heaps of Sorcs and not just healing ones. Juggs and Operatives have few going around. Poor PTs are under represented. A Sin gank squad can take out a sniper fast.

 

I've only been in 6 matches where we had multiple snipers/gunslingers in the same match, either on or against our team.

The most was 3 and only one was engineering, the other two were MM and the other team had five Mercs and two Sorc healers and a Jugg tank. We had the three snipers, one Operative healer, one PT dps, one Jugg dps and two Sins. Can you guys guess who won that match?

With the other matches I only had 3 where there were snipers/slingers on the other side. Only one of them was engineering.

 

Honestly I was surprised when I got to lvl 70 with my sniper and saw how under represented they really are. The way half you guys have been QQing I thought they must be approaching Merc status, but both snipers and PTs are last with how many are represented in matches.

When you are playing another class you see a sniper, you don't really pay to much attention to how many you've actually seen in every match. But when you are on a sniper you want to know so you can counter them. I've not played ranked on my sniper yet and only a little on some other classes since 5.0, so I don't know what the representation is there, but it's low in regs. I can only assume then that most off this QQing is from people because there aren't enough engineering snipers around for you to practice on or learn tactics.

The people who have learnt are the Sins and Maras. If they are any good you will have a pack on you and all the plasma probes in the world won't stop them globalling you.

 

I see this problem from two perspectives (playing a sniper and playing other classes) and I don't think there is only one reason for the nerf calls, there are a few and I'll break down what they are.

1. Newbie pve or casual pvpers who don't know how to counter the class. Basically every class is OP for them unless they can global it. (That's just a QQ)

2. Players who are frustrated that they can't stay on a target they are trying to gank focus (not the sniper) and plasma is annoying and nothing more. It prevents them from globalling people and it really pisses them off. (Also a QQ)

3. Ledgitmate classes that have limited mobility or break abilities or utility choices and are slowed to a crawl. These guys have a ledgitmate concern and I sympathise. But I don't think a nerf is what's need to help them. They need buffs.(Not a QQ)

4. Mercs who can't face tank snipers or are being controlled from face tanking others. IMO these are probably the people calling for these nerfs the most. Mercs are so over represented and snipers at the bottom, that it makes sense that Mercs hate this the most, especially the FOTM Mercs. The real Merc players pre 5.0 will still be ok. (Any Merc players calling for Nerfs is a Massive QQ)

5. Lazy players, especially lazy Sorcs who like to stand in one place and Force Storm everything (QQ)

6. Ranked solo where a sniper can make a difference if they don't have healers or enough Mercs 😉 (Can't comment as that's a guess)

7. People who can't solo focus/global an engineering sniper or face tank it anymore. (QQ, learn some tactics and accept the fact they aren't easy prey anymore)

8.... I can't think of anymore reasons yet...

20... Lastly, people not calling for nerfs because they can work around change and adapt.

 

I've probably insulted 90% of you with that list. But ask yourself honestly, what class are you playing and how is the engineering sniper really affecting you. Is there anything you can do to change your tactics to counter the issue. If they are just slowing you down, not killing you and are annoying, it's really no call for a nerfs because the sniper is doing their job. If you can't face tank them alone anymore on your preferred class, then get someone else to focus with you, like Sins and Maras do.

I'd really love if people asking for nerfs wouldn't just argue what the ability is or what it can do vs what other classes have. What I'd like to see is what class they are actually playing against the class they want to nerf and what difficulties or problems they are having. Then we could be discussing tactics or making suggestions to counter the issues. There also needs to be a distinction on type of pvp. Are we talking objective 8 man, Arena, Ranked Solo or ranked group.

Most nerf callers don't ever say what class they are on or discuss ways to counter with out nerfs.

 

Every class/spec has a strength/weakness and role to play. They all have special abilities that affect different classes differently. If you nerf snipers, who looks after the Mercs?

If you go through the forums there are nerfs and buffs requested for half the classes. When you nerf one, then another becomes OP because they have no counter.

 

This is what I've seen doing a quick scan in the forums.

Nerf Mercs

Nerf Sorc healers

Nerf snipers

Buff Sorc DPS

 

Under the current Bio balance regime 🙄 these classes are the ones with the least threads or posts. Anyone one of them can become OP if Bio nerf or buff the wrong way and we are still in the never ending nerf - buff roller coaster that is swtor balance.

Maras seem to be fine or exactly right

Sins seem to be fine

Operatives seem to be fine

PTs (some specs seem to be ok)

Juggs (some specs seem to be ok, but IMO they should get root/stun break back on mad dash which was nerfed)

 

Anyway, as usual these are my observations and opinions. Everyone is entitled to them.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

How did jug mobility get nerfed? They didnt lose anything afaik, and with ravage becoming instant even gained some for veng. For the rest, they are damn mobile and hard to kite with the right Utilities

 

They lost the stun/root break on mad dash. That would add a lot more mobility than currently and would certainly help against engineering. That's only a small buff and they could even lower the CD a small amount on it and Juggs have better mobility.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

Maybe you should play melee classes. If youre slowed down to 70% half of the match, its so much fun that more and more melee classes just leave.

 

Which ones? I play all.

[Icykill_]

Increasing survivability and keeping high dps is what breaks the game. That's why engineering is now a problem. The ttk is through the rough on a spec that is designed to aoe. The slows are just annoying and at 70% just ruining the fun element. Bioware needs to make this game an MMO again and make all classes rely on the presence of others.

 

Lose the cover defences now they have so much on the skill table, like Operatives had to.

 

So it's the annoying factor that is the real issue for you?

 

If we want to talk about annoying and making the game less fun. Let's add Operative attacks from befind that you can't defend against.. Operative roll (especially in Hutt Ball as it glitches and essentially makes it an exploit if done right) or the fact that both operatives and Sins can stand on top of you and you can't see them anymore.. Sorc bubble (for some people)... Juggs healing... Dps classes tanking... dps classes off healing... there is a long line of class abilities that are annoying and we nerfed them all we'd end up with 3 abilities each to spam at each other.

[Icykill_]

Ok, one more.

 

Also be careful what you wish for. Bioware often get nerfs wrong and nerf the wrong thing for the wrong reason. Lots of you guys are more annoyed at the long slow ability and spam than the dps. What if Bioware decide to reduce the dps, take plasma out of the rotation, but still allow it to be spammed and keep the slow as is? That will still be annoying even if the sniper does less damage. So what is it really, just the annoyance of the slow or is it the dps?

 

It's not the first time they haven't understood the real reason people want nerfs. The Lightning Sorc fiasco in 3.0 is a prime example of this. We had 2 months of people asking for Force Storm with slow to be taken out of the rotation (which it should never have been added and wasn't need for a burst spec) But Bio thinks it's a DPS issue, so they keep the FS with slow and nerf single target burst and procs to reduce dps out put.

They completely misunderstood what the issue was. It was noobs spamming Force Storm, which really only did fluff damage and didn't help their team except to annoy people. Most of the time those noobs didn't even both to use the single target procs and burst. It took Bio months before they got around to removing slow in FS, taking it out of the rotation and they also made it last less time. But they never reverse the single target burst damage that they mistakenly nerfed. lightning has never been the same since.

 

They then over buffed Madness and healing Sorcs and we all know how that went.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Icykill_

[verfallen]

They lost the stun/root break on mad dash. That would add a lot more mobility than currently and would certainly help against engineering. That's only a small buff and they could even lower the CD a small amount on it and Juggs have better mobility.

 

never broke stuns. It can resist them while dashing, but its not a stun break and never was. And it was a utility afaik to break root on it before. It still is. And it now lowers the cd, which it didnt do before.

[Marstrike]

Good to see some quite informative posts from long time sniper players.

 

One thing i want to clear up though, you guy's aren't claiming the AoE spam ISNT OP though right?

 

Playing engineer well might take skill but playing it effectively in this meta...takes none. All you need to do to be "effective" on ANY map is spam that AoE.

 

If I am wrong could you explain why you were one of the "few" people to main Engineering yet now i see them everywhere, every single sniper is engineer. If we're gonna play games then what's changed?

 

Let's not be silly no one in their right mind does not think that skill is ridiculous...

Edited April 2, 2017 by Marstrike

[Thaladan]

Good to see some quite informative posts from long time sniper players.

 

One thing i want to clear up though, you guy's aren't claiming the AoE spam ISNT OP though right?

 

Playing engineer well might take skill but playing it effectively in this meta...takes none. All you need to do to be "effective" on ANY map is spam that AoE.

 

If I am wrong could you explain why you were one of the "few" people to main Engineering yet now i see them everywhere, every single sniper is engineer. If we're gonna play games then what's changed?

 

Let's not be silly no one in their right mind does not think that skill is ridiculous...

 

it's effective just because it's a total range environment with mercs and sorc heal with snipers. that's why you can spam aoe quietly.

 

in a warzone full fo juggs and maras try to spam your aoe and plasma probe..you will be dead.

 

it's a problem of balancez between range and melee that's all. and i understand that in this format melee are just bored to death to move at 70% slow + enet and be alone vs 2 range classes + an OP healer.

 

ps : and there are some utilities against aoe (30% less damage/damage reflect .. sin deception aoe tank fotw), just a matter of choice.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Thaladan

[DavidAtkinson]

Good to see some quite informative posts from long time sniper players.

 

One thing i want to clear up though, you guy's aren't claiming the AoE spam ISNT OP though right?

 

Playing engineer well might take skill but playing it effectively in this meta...takes none. All you need to do to be "effective" on ANY map is spam that AoE.

 

If I am wrong could you explain why you were one of the "few" people to main Engineering yet now i see them everywhere, every single sniper is engineer. If we're gonna play games then what's changed?

 

Let's not be silly no one in their right mind does not think that skill is ridiculous...

 

In unranked warzones I don't care about snipers or mercs really. They aren't such a big problem.. because they can be killed 1 vs 1. if there are too many of them then it's a bit troublesome. I've solod mandos and mercs many times 1 vs 1 with me killing them in the end. Snipers however are sometimes more powerful then mercs.

 

For me the biggest problem for these classes are solo ranked arenas.

[verfallen]

it's effective just because it's a total range environment with mercs and sorc heal with snipers. that's why you can spam aoe quietly.

 

in a warzone full fo juggs and maras try to spam your aoe and plasma probe..you will be dead.

 

it's a problem of balancez between range and melee that's all. and i understand that in this format melee are just bored to death to move at 70% slow + enet and be alone vs 2 range classes + an OP healer.

 

ps : and there are some utilities against aoe (30% less damage/damage reflect .. sin deception aoe tank fotw), just a matter of choice.

 

30% less aoe damage is mostly a pve oriented utility, altough I do agree its starting to be interesting with the ammount of engi sniper around. Still most AC cannot take it without leaving a much more useful for pvp (normally extra snare/root breaks, or extra snare roots). A few lucky ones, like deception and AP have those built in.

 

Sniper is a bit unique in that, that it doesnt really need those. I take ONE extra movement break in countermeasure, and on the other end I boost a kb, add another, get faster stuns and get yummy defensives.

 

Meanwhile warrior often have to spend up to 2 or 3 utilities in defense against movement impairing or movement boost, and with a single probe spam, a sniper can have them waste them all. Fury retain some effectiveness, and rage jug with the correct utilities retain some as well, but compared to a spam of 70% root break.

 

Like any spec, playing it to its best require some skill, careful use of all your tools. An engi sniper that just spam its probe by itself, its workable. But if he cycle his defensives, uses his 2 kb smartly, use entrench correctly, which makes most gap closer null and void, and use his other snares/root, you have an issue.

 

Proof of the matter is how hard a good MM or viru sniper is to stay on. Fury Marauder are currently the only melee class that can stand a chance as they have enough tools and burst to deal with more slow/kb and controlling effect. Play any other melee spec, even deception, and you'll realize the ridiculousness of the probe.