Engi snipers > Nerf pls.

[Icykill_]

I was doing my best to stay away from this topics as i'm newer, but what you are saying (and also many others) that PP and the defenses were there pre 5.X is just not very accurate:

 

* PP radio in 4.0 was 5. Now is 8. When i read about this i actually calculated what is the real difference with this is. Radio increase is 60% but Area increase is more: The new one is 2,56 times the old one (156% increase).

 

Defenses (from looking at guides of 4.X) i got this:

* Vital regulators was double from 1% to 2% every 3 sec.

* Balistic Shield heal is new (and comes with extra damage reduction).

* Tactical retreat is new: That is 10% heal when rolling and 2 extra seconds on evasion.

 

So from my simple analisis i see that in 5.0 snipers got at least Two new heals and the one that was already there was doubled. That is an issue considering that Snipers already had nice defenses: Evasion works much better than operatives while in cover, 60% Aoe reduction en et, all general cover benefits and even more with entrench, etc, etc.

 

The reason this thread was created wasn't because Snipers healing or mobility were in question, it was because some people are having an issue with Plasma Probe slowing them down too much in the match... everything else is just static and isnt what the nerf calls are about.

Most of those calling for nerfs will agree that is the only thing that concerns them.

[BaineOs]

Only problem with that though Icy, is a lot of the posts are complete baloney Edited May 5, 2017 by BaineOs

[yellow_]

250 posts and counting of debate about the completely and blatantly obvious fact that engineering sniper is busted

 

only the swtor forums

Edited May 5, 2017 by yellow_

[Rion_Starkiller]

People constantly calling for nerfs instead of asking for balancing other classes with some buffs.

 

^This.

Less nerfing, more buffing.

 

And also,

This is exactly the problem with Mercs/mandos right now. If BWA nerfs them, how many will QQ unsub? In the old days, I wouldn't have worried, but I fear that this game has lost a lot of players.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Rion_Starkiller

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

^This.

Less nerfing, more buffing.

 

And also,

This is exactly the problem with Mercs/mandos right now. If BWA nerfs them, how many will QQ unsub? In the old days, I wouldn't have worried, but I fear that this game has lost a lot of players.

 

Thats a great reason the leave a Stupidly OP class stupid. Let's never ever change any class whether overpowered or underpowered because it's going to upset some special snow flake. Let's also not take into consideration all the people who are so sick of the Merc/Sniper dominance that they QQ unsub because playing melee is a nightmare at times.

 

Just do me a favor and roll back Assassins and Carnage marauders til before they fixed the double stance bug that was causing over performance, I'd like to have that back first before we lock in all the classes because nerfing any class can never be justified for any reason. We should probably roll back Sorcs back to their 4.0 builds and smash monkey's too first. Maybe some of them will come back.

 

Certainly there are supporters of not nerfing Mercs and Snipers. That's their right they are entitled to their opinions. But I think it is probably fair to say, even if you just look at which way the wind is blowing on the forums, that there are infinitely more people who are sick of WZs filled with Mercs and Snipers because they are OP. . BW should be concerned about losing them too.

And this isn't only because of class stacking, because these classes still over perform even one on one.

Just because 3 people attacking a Merc can eventually kill them means nothing, and it doesn't mean they aren't OP. There isn't a class or spec in the game that wont be killed in a 3v1.

 

6 months and not one rebalancing. That is unheard of after an x-pac release [3.0, 4.0, etc.]. How much longer are people going to hold out for hope before they simply say fuk it?

 

Maybe buffing every other class in the game to Merc/Sniper levels would makes things even because if everyone's OP I guess than no ones OP, but do you really wanna take that chance?

 

You fix what's broken. When you start messing around with things that aren't you usually end up breaking them.

[Icykill_]

Only problem with that though Icy, is a lot of the posts are complete baloney

 

Won't get any argument there... I agree.. but I think most think it's my posts and not theirs

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Won't get any argument there... I agree.. but I think most think it's my posts and not theirs

 

Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks Icy, it only matters what you think. People are never going to agree with everyone else in all things, but there is nonetheless value to hearing different opinions and different perspectives on things. That's what the forums are all about.

 

I might not agree with you on certain subjects but I still want to read every post you put up.

 

Besides, so far, you guys are winning this debate. 6 Months and they haven't changed a thing! =p

Edited May 6, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[VixenRawR]

I don't know why people think engineer snipers are any better than they were in 4.0. They were strong then too. The only reason is because people are class stacking, the only reason people complain about net now cause there are always 3-4 mercs netting. If there was only 1 eng sniper every now and then, which was the case before...no one would care.

 

Nerfing a class because of class stacking is dumb. They should just prevent premades of using same class and build.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I don't know why people think engineer snipers are any better than they were in 4.0. They were strong then too. The only reason is because people are class stacking, the only reason people complain about net now cause there are always 3-4 mercs netting. If there was only 1 eng sniper every now and then, which was the case before...no one would care.

 

Nerfing a class because of class stacking is dumb. They should just prevent premades of using same class and build.

 

 

The following assumes that the engineering sniper is competent and knows his class, of course there are bads. -

 

 

They are better than they were in 4.0.

 

Plasma probe had it's radius increased from 5 to 8'. Snipers also received defensive buffs and healing buffs. It was a pure DPS class prior to 5.0.

 

The issue is not only about class stacking, Plasma probe is far to strong as an ability all on it's own and grants way too much control over masses of people on a constant basis if desired. It's spammable, has no cooldown can be moved at will and can't be interrupted or stopped. It is also a constant AOE damage that can be kept up 100% percent of the time conceivably. There is no point to using a breaker to get out of the 70% slow because they can just put a new one right back on top of you 1 second later.

 

Uptime on snipers by melee is abysmal as it is, now even when u can get near one for a few seconds you are taking constant aoe damage on top of any other attacks. In many instances it can prevent a cap because it breaks any channeling attempts. That one ability can cause the enemy team to lose the match all by itself.

 

It is OP as hell and totally unfair to subject people to a constant 70% slow that virtually insures all the mercs and snipers have plently of time and ease in mowing down those caught in it's slow effect and this cannot break line of sight.

No class should be able to control so many others 100% of the time potentially while snipers themselves most of the time are immune to CCs. There is something very wrong about being unable to attack someone who's attacking you for the lengths of time a Sniper can keep melee outside of melee range.

 

It's disgustingly OP and it's game breaking [more so to melee than other ranged classes]. and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it unless you yourself have CC immunity. No one has enough breakers to keep on breaking new Plasma probes being thrown right back on them once they use their breaker. Short of running, hiding or simply allowing the sniper to free cast, there is no work around.

 

When you see engineering snipers, who's kit is filled to the brim with powerful defensives and self healing being guarded there is only one conclusion you can draw. People know it's game breaking and the side that has engineering sniper has a much higher chance of winning than a the team they are facing who doesn't have an engineering sniper or an equal amount. They gaurd them because they know they have an OP ability and dont want to lose it during the time of death respawn and return.

 

Everyone's entitled to their opinions and that should be respected on both sides of this debate, but honestly i find it hard to fathom that anyone who thinks this ability isn't OP and OP as hell plays melee. [Fury Marauders are an exception due to their unique anti CC spec abilities/passives.

 

Simply put, OP or Not, plasma probe ruins PVP for so many people.

 

Speaking only for myself, I find this ability to be grossly unfair to melee to say nothing of it being a total cheese move. Given their huge CC kit filled to the brim with stuns, knockbacks and roots in addition to Plasma probe and their insane defensive's accompanied with multiple self heals , quite honestly I don't know how people aren't embarrassed to play it in PVP. They are every bit as bad as mercs and to melee they are worse than mercs.

 

There is no issue with it in PVE.

Edited May 7, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[JediAkemi]

I feel that Plasma Probe needs a cooldown at the very least, for the reasons stated above - being able to constantly spam it makes it too easy to trap multiple opponents (especially melee classes) in an easy kill zone and control the battlefield better than every other class.

[Icykill_]

I finally understand why some people are asking to nerf Engineering... lol...

I did some pvp on my Merc to show a girl friend the class and when I got to lvl 70 I ran into a few snipers.. I've had no issues with snipers on any class except Juggs (rip).. but I jump on a Merc and it's slow city just like on my Jugg..

I can see why more people using snipers to counter Mercs which they should.. I also think that most of these nerf calls are from Merc players who don't like getting held up by their obvious counter class.. seriously guys, the only class that should be complaining about Engineering are Juggs, with the possibility of PTs..

If you are calling for nerfs and you play a Merc I do understand the frustration of being slowed, but you need to take the good with the bad because Mercs are in a good place and shouldn't exepect everything they ask for. 😉

[Brytshadow]

Nerf = NO.

Re-balance of other classes = YES.

 

Nerfing everything is dumb, I'll say some classes need a bit of tweaking because they got nerfed (cough cough MERC cough cough) but nerfing classes is not a good answer, analyzing the classes in 4v4, and instead of weaking any of them strengthen those that need it.

 

I'd rather it not feel like going into battle with a rubber band gun, or cardboard tube, going down the nerf it all road will certainly achieve that.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Brytshadow
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[VixenRawR]

All problems are solved when slows and roots apply to resolve.

[Vember]

All problems are solved when slows and roots apply to resolve.

 

This ^^

 

Needs to happen, and full resolve should be COMPLETE cc immunity for the duration. There needs to be some strategy to CC use, not spamming it.

[BaineOs]

This ^^

 

Needs to happen,

 

No it doesn't, a sign of people who don't think about things properly.

[Sargrith]

This ^^

 

Needs to happen, and full resolve should be COMPLETE cc immunity for the duration. There needs to be some strategy to CC use, not spamming it.

 

Not untrue. It would certainly help but not sure its a total fix.

[Kirtastropohe]

Hey Keith...hopefully you're reading the PvP forums. Better yet, hopefully you're playing a match or two and experiencing the joy of being constantly slowed 70% while trying to do anything. You want to fix the game...start with that crap. Should not be 70% slow...should not be constantly spammable... and slows SHOULD affect the resolve bar.

[jeanniesgt]

Let's bring back snipers to the 'easy to kill' bracket so that everyone can have more fun at their expense! Might as well just remove hunker down and make targets in cover pullable/leapable to so we can all laugh. Also, give mercs an electro-net aura that has a 40m radius, and finally give them stealth and sleep dart.

 

*pulls out flame shield*

 

 

[RACATW]

Let's bring back snipers to the 'easy to kill' bracket so that everyone can have more fun at their expense! Might as well just remove hunker down and make targets in cover pullable/leapable to so we can all laugh. Also, give mercs an electro-net aura that has a 40m radius, and finally give them stealth and sleep dart.

 

*pulls out flame shield*

 

 

 

Making them mortal again would be nice

[Icykill_]

Hey Keith...hopefully you're reading the PvP forums. Better yet, hopefully you're playing a match or two....

 

And if he is playing, I bet he has 248 fully optimised gear and doesn't realise there is a gear gap.

[Liquor]

Jumped on my sniper. Engi for the troll

 

Troll Probed everything in site. 12 probes till your energy is drained. I had a blast. Held 4-6 players from the first door to the final wall in the hallways with only plasma probe. No whitebar. Pushes off bridge. I was cracking up.

Had 1 comment tonight, "How many Engi snipers do they have!!??" It was just me troll probing them during the entire Queshball match. I made it seem like their was an entire Super-Q of Engi snipers

 

The only thing I see wrong here is plasma probe needs a cool down and use a little more energy.

 

It's far too easy to cheese while defending to slowing an entire team down while my team presses forward into the next objective or capture

 

Granted good players will work together and focus me down but that's rare. So many players don't know what to do. Instead these players call for nerfs instead of seeing the real problem. Some bads tunnel me so much I use it against them and goof off while my team steals an objective.

 

 

Next time you're in a WZ. count how many snipers to mercs, sorcs, and juggs you have. Then ask yourself, is this really a problem?

Edited May 10, 2017 by Liquor

[Kirtastropohe]

Next time you're in a WZ. count how many snipers to mercs, sorcs, and juggs you have. Then ask yourself, is this really a problem?

 

It's a major problem because war zones, aside from arenas, are not death matches. It's objectives and you can just drop the fire over it and singlehandedly control everything, as you demonstrated in your post, with a single, spammable ability. Just one sniper can be brutal, and if there's 2, forget it.

 

Even a team that focuses your sniper you won't kill you quickly if you're a sniper with any skill, and all the while, you can just drop the fire back over yourself, so those trying to kill you will be slowed to hell and then you'll roll away into cover and be unable to be jumped to, so people will crawl towards you at 30%. All the while they will be ripped apart by you and the rest of your team, which is most likely 80% ranged since ranged in general is OP these days. Typically, seeing on average, 2 melee on an 8 person team these days, occasionally 3.

 

Class balance is hard, but it's a no-brainer that eng sniper has abilities that need to be addressed right now. BW could make some easy, stop-gap adjustments that would hold people until the major class balances.

[Vember]

No it doesn't, a sign of people who don't think about things properly.

 

In the current meta of "spam cc off cooldown" there is zero strategy to CC use. Resolve needs to grant full CC immunity and roots/snares, which are basically hard stuns for melee, need to add to resolve.

 

Have you played a melee recently? It's so nice RP walking around an entire pvp match.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Vember

[Smilinghawk]

 

Class balance is hard, but it's a no-brainer that eng sniper has abilities that need to be addressed right now. BW could make some easy, stop-gap adjustments that would hold people until the major class balances.

 

 

They could have done some adjustments when it came clear how strong the ranged self heal tanks were. I realize the merc&snipe dcd buffs were given to help survive arena focus but the total defensive buff was too strong.

 

But imo an arena dcd should have a longish cooldown like 3-4 mins so they're not spammable in regs and be hard enough to survive heavy focus for a few seconds and give you and your team time to react, this is just imo from someone who does not play ranked and sort of dislikes regs arenas too.

 

For the record IO and engi are in my top 5 favorite specs and I really like the kolto utility making kolto worthy of a 3min cd. Imo bring down damage or survivability of the ranged overlords, very hard to justify 40% surge on mercs in their current state.

 

Also pp radius down OR slow to 50% and perhaps no interrupting of caps, it is a dot after all...

[BaineOs]

In the current meta of "spam cc off cooldown" there is zero strategy to CC use. Resolve needs to grant full CC immunity and roots/snares, which are basically hard stuns for melee, need to add to resolve.

 

Have you played a melee recently? It's so nice RP walking around an entire pvp match.

 

Does my signature look like I play melee?

 

...in second thoughts don't answer that. I have all the classes, I'll give you one guess to determine which one I prefer.

 

There's no difference here from what it's like to be a sniper v stealth enemies. In fact...perhaps I should go pest a load of idiotic babble in that "I miss #nerfoperatives" thread.

 

Not everyone I freely admit that, but a lot of people in this thread should be dipping their head in shame with what they've posted. Ill made posts without a credible ounce of thought put into it.

 

I find healers annoying

I find stealthers annoying

I find melee that are being healed annoying...when I'm not getting any support from my team

I find tanks that do nothing but guard healers all game annoying

 

There's lots of things everyone finds annoying, you know what? It doesn't mean to say things need to be nerfed, it means sometimes you just have to put up with things because that's the way some things have to be.

 

Engineering is one of those...it's ALWAYS been annoying, right from launch, or at least since patch 1.2 (which is when I first started playing the spec). Anyone just waking up to the fact that engineering can be incredibly annoying has been living with their head in the clouds. It's like...seriously...where have you all been?!

 

The by far overwhelming amount of "suggestions" in this thread have been quite simply...awful. People need to urgently gain a better understanding of the game insofar as how everything is linked, and how changes effect everything else because this thread is just embarrassing for a lot of people.

 

For the record, yes I agree that changes need to happen, the difference is the changes I've suggested come from someone that actually understands the spec and has played it as their main since patch 1.2 I know what it's like to play the spec, I know what it's like to be against the spec, I've seen it all, heard it all.

 

Do my changes, and engineering will be fine. Any complaints after those changes are nothing to do with engineering.