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Alacrity, Crit, and Power in PVP


ilfiriel_azurian

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Hey everyone,

 

I main a Sin Deception, and have been playing PVP in regs for about a year and play with a mix of crit and alacrity (40% crit, 5% alacrity, 5% accuracy). I currently have 236 stalker set and 8 augments (6 crit, 2 alac).

I was wondering if I should ditch alacrity and accuracy altogether and just use power augments with crit enhancements. What is the consensus on crit/power balance ? Is alacrity just not worth it ?

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Do you lag a lot in pvp? Alacrity works well in a lag-free environment. It let's you mash buttons faster by reducing GCD's, decreasing casting times. It also makes your DoT's tick faster in a shorter window (if you ever run hatred).

 

As for accuracy, I generally run at base 101%. Sometimes I'll run with 1 accuracy enhancement. Generally, accuracy is useless in pvp, with a few exceptions (combat sent for example).

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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Alacrity doesn't really offer a whole lot in small quantities. And I personally do not recommend stacking it up for PvP.

Honestly, I'd advise you to ditch it alltogether.

 

Do take 1-2 Enhancements with Accuracy since stacking Crit up beyond 1800-1900+ is just pointless anyway.

Edited by Evolixe
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  • 2 weeks later...
Alacrity doesn't really offer a whole lot in small quantities. And I personally do not recommend stacking it up for PvP.

Honestly, I'd advise you to ditch it alltogether.

 

Do take 1-2 Enhancements with Accuracy since stacking Crit up beyond 1800-1900+ is just pointless anyway.

 

Why is pointless?

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Because of diminishing returns once you get past 40% crit.

 

That, and after 40% crit chance your recklessness will have it's guaranteed crit. So yeah, after that there isn't a whole lot to gain and the extra 5% accuracy from the 2 enhancements can make or break your game.

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That, and after 40% crit chance your recklessness will have it's guaranteed crit. So yeah, after that there isn't a whole lot to gain and the extra 5% accuracy from the 2 enhancements can make or break your game.

 

about to start running 10% from all those darn sage that parry my low slash here -,-

 

Joking a bit but...damn had a sage dodge 3 in a row yesterday in an arena.

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i dunno i been running straight power crit my crit is at 44 % the dmg still goes up for both straight dps and force dps. the crit still goes up past 40 as well and ive not seen myself miss ever with 101 accuracy. Really dont see much as in diminishing returns.

 

 

Getting on to accuracy its always been stated 110 for pve 105 for pvp however with sins that has not ever been the case its been 105 pve and 101 pvp.

Edited by falkron-kerupt
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Getting on to accuracy its always been stated 110 for pve 105 for pvp however with sins that has not ever been the case its been 105 pve and 101 pvp.

 

Whoever told you this is straight up wrong.

Also, just because you don't see the misses doesn't mean they don't happen. With 101% you WILL miss. Simple as that.

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i dunno i been running straight power crit my crit is at 44 % the dmg still goes up for both straight dps and force dps. the crit still goes up past 40 as well and ive not seen myself miss ever with 101 accuracy. Really dont see much as in diminishing returns.

 

 

Getting on to accuracy its always been stated 110 for pve 105 for pvp however with sins that has not ever been the case its been 105 pve and 101 pvp.

 

in pve mobs/boss have 10% defenses and resist chance. so in order to have 100% hit rate you need 110% acc.

 

In pvp, players have 5% baseline defenses and 0% resist chances for the most part, Inquistors/consular (both ACs) have 10% baseline defenses. What it means is in pvp, force and tech attack will mostly never miss even with 101 accuracy, but melee and ranged will sometimes. If its a tank, more than sometimes, 1/4th or so will miss.

 

So what it means for deception is pretty much ball lightning and discharge will go through, maul reaping strike, assassinate, low slash and voltaic slash will miss sometimes.

Edited by verfallen
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Getting on to accuracy its always been stated 110 for pve 105 for pvp however with sins that has not ever been the case its been 105 pve and 101 pvp.

 

Besides you I've never heard anyone say that.

 

Operation and I suppose lesser bosses dodge and resist 10% vs tech/force/melee/ranged

 

They don't have a weakness to tech/force like players.

 

When doing hardest content besides attacks being dodged and resisted you can have knockbacks and stuns resisting which make you unpopular if that was part of the fight mechanic to control.

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Whoever told you this is straight up wrong.

Also, just because you don't see the misses doesn't mean they don't happen. With 101% you WILL miss. Simple as that.

 

Have played deception since 2.0 and have not had ever any problems with this set up, and rarely miss.Did i mention i have also been here since creation of game.

 

 

I guess the dark side is strong for my personal preference.

Edited by falkron-kerupt
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Have played deception since 2.0 and have not had ever any problems with this set up, and rarely miss.Did i mention i have also been here since creation of game.

 

 

I guess the dark side is strong for my personal preference.

 

Ya you're still wrong, apparently you can play the game since launch and still not know some basic fundamentals of the game. Your misses more than make the difference in stats you traded to not go 110% accuracy for PvE, lets say for example you miss a crit maul hit that would have hit for 18k, if you had 110% accuracy and less of some other stats the difference in dps(i.e slightly less damage on attacks) over a long fight is more than made up for by the fact you weren't missing your attacks. When you miss an attack at that moment you're doing zero dps, so any gains in crit or whatever are completely negated by that and I don't get why some people don't understand that.

Edited by Romeugues
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Ya you're still wrong, apparently you can play the game since launch and still not know some basic fundamentals of the game. Your misses more than make the difference in stats you traded to not go 110% accuracy for PvE, lets say for example you miss a crit maul hit that would have hit for 18k, if you had 110% accuracy and less of some other stats the difference in dps(i.e slightly less damage on attacks) over a long fight is more than made up for by the fact you weren't missing your attacks. When you miss an attack at that moment you're doing zero dps, so any gains in crit or whatever are completely negated by that and I don't get why some people don't understand that.

 

So i guess the part where i said rarely miss and personal preference has been this and i do fine with it,was what uyou missed. The extra accuracy literally does not effect as much as you think but go on with u saying it matters.

 

Bottom of line at end of day max dps in short fights is better if i was raiding yes id want more to get max out of the long fight but in pvp im not in for a long fight.

Edited by falkron-kerupt
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So i guess the part where i said rarely miss and personal preference has been this and i do fine with it,was what uyou missed. The extra accuracy literally does not effect as much as you think but go on with u saying it matters.

 

Bottom of line at end of day max dps in short fights is better if i was raiding yes id want more to get max out of the long fight but in pvp im not in for a long fight.

 

Your DPS in the short run gets completely butt**** if you miss anything at all.

A hell of a lot more than any damage over a longer period of time.

It can actually take a slice of over 20% out of your burst window.

 

 

With 101% accuracy, you're going to be missing like 3-5% of everything that you do.

While that might not look like much from a grander point of view, it can actually be a really big deal if you look at it in detail.

 

And to be honest, I don't care about how long you have been playing this game.

It's quite clear you're still at a novice level.

And there is really nothing wrong with that; just don't go about advising people with completely wrong information.

Edited by Evolixe
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The information is not incorrect as i stated its the way i play and i do fine as said personal preference. . what server you on ? would love to see how your set up works. the 4 extra percent accuracy is not going to make or break you at all .

 

i tried your accuracy bit and im telling you there is not much difference between 101 and 105 4 extra % is nothing. ive also had 110 accuracy in wzs and again only thing noticed is less dps at the end of the wz.

 

every little bit of dps you take away adds up and quickly. so go ahead you use more accuracy lower your end dps totals by getting 1 extra hit in every now and then . the difference between missing and what you lose in dps to make sure you dont miss as often is so very little but what i know i am novice lawls.

 

If ever make it over to jc and have full 242 set the way you state is best id love to see u play your sin over here.

The name is notorious. have a nice day.

Edited by falkron-kerupt
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Who said anything about 110 in a wz.

 

You're being told that you're straight up wrong about not needing 110 for pve.

 

Many years after launch is still better than never to hear about 10% dodge and resist on bosses.

 

You only know about these things if you join a decently organised raiding guild or read any PVE guide ever, just playing the game since launch doesn't tell you all that.

 

You can do more dps if you ignore accuracy and RNG says you don't miss.

 

Boss fights go on for a long time, RNG can't keep it up and you don't get to choose what you miss. Was that attack meant to buff another ability? Can't do that when it misses. Are you meant to knock that AOE damage blade off the platform? Oh it resisted, well that's awkward, we'll just have to take AOE damage on the raid until your push is back off cooldown and you can try again. Resisted again? Just rotate this guy out he's taking the piss by not speccing accuracy.

 

Organised PVE doesn't go for needless RNG BS in their abilities. They want abilities to hit and do what they are meant to.

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I don't think you quite understand how math works my friend.

 

The base miss chance on players is 5%. On Inquisitors and Consulars, it's 10%.

That means with 105% accuracy, you are 100% less likely to miss on most people. On Consulars however, you are only but still ~40% less likely to miss anything.

 

The cost? 44% > 42% crit. A ~4,8% reduction in original crit chance and an even smaller number of Surge.

Did I mention That my average maul autocrit hits for 29k with 106% accuracy?

 

Seems like an easy choice to me, honestly.

But I mean by all means, take the Surge and if you have the level of gear I do your maul might do 30k on average.

Too *********** bad if it misses though. And if it misses more than once in 30 times, you're also doing less netto damage :)

 

The name is notorious.

 

Ever stopped to think there might be a reason for that? :rolleyes:

Edited by Evolixe
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I am running full power (~5000), full crit (44.5%) right now in PVP and its going pretty well. I will try the 5% accuracy (instead of 2% crit) and see if it changes anything to my DPS. Thanks for the responses. (also quoting Krea : "With the abundance of defensive cool downs in PvP that increase defense chance, gearing for Accuracy becomes a moot point." I guess that is valid for Ranked or Arena WZ, in a normal WZ I suppose Accuracy finds importance again)
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I don't think you quite understand how math works my friend.

 

The base miss chance on players is 5%. On Inquisitors and Consulars, it's 10%.

That means with 105% accuracy, you are 100% less likely to miss on most people. On Consulars however, you are only but still ~40% less likely to miss anything.

 

The cost? 44% > 42% crit. A ~4,8% reduction in original crit chance and an even smaller number of Surge.

Did I mention That my average maul autocrit hits for 29k with 106% accuracy?

 

Seems like an easy choice to me, honestly.

But I mean by all means, take the Surge and if you have the level of gear I do your maul might do 30k on average.

Too *********** bad if it misses though. And if it misses more than once in 30 times, you're also doing less netto damage :)

 

 

 

Ever stopped to think there might be a reason for that? :rolleyes:

 

he's mostly a pvper, not that bad either. with what I read here tough I wouldn't endorse him on my raid team.

 

In pvp you can get away with high crit/power build, and sometimes its going to work, sometimes its not. Its like throwing a dime.

 

He'll never misses his discharges and ball lightning, because force attack.

 

I personnaly think the investment for 105% accuracy is so low for PvP, unless you are a sorc and possibly an engi sniper (and even then, I run 105% on mine) you'd be crazy not to run it. Its literally 1 enhencement and 1 augment. Meanwhile, using those for extra crit will barely give you an extra %, and alacrity is probably pushing the DR too. Using it for power or mastery is a bit more passable.

 

 

Now in PvE, you can get away with 109.8ish% if you want (720 accuracy), and some do swear by it. Its close enough than a 2.5M dummy parse can be made without missing. But eventually you will miss one. It could be in that awesome crit lucky parse you were making.

 

It could be in an HM ops in a dps burst check phase where your miss will mean the difference between a raid wipe and a pass. Tbh, with 0.2%, probably won't happen often, but it can. There is enough RNG in many fight that I personnally prefer to control the part I have an input over.

 

missing an attack 5% of the time is actually a lot to compensate for. Even if you suppose all those attacks were non crit. Run the math, its rather obvious, just like alacrity is sometimes overlooked by some people because "they have no cast".

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I am running full power (~5000), full crit (44.5%) right now in PVP and its going pretty well. I will try the 5% accuracy (instead of 2% crit) and see if it changes anything to my DPS. Thanks for the responses. (also quoting Krea : "With the abundance of defensive cool downs in PvP that increase defense chance, gearing for Accuracy becomes a moot point." I guess that is valid for Ranked or Arena WZ, in a normal WZ I suppose Accuracy finds importance again)

 

Yeah, well., Krea also tells you to go hatred. So yeah.

 

he's mostly a pvper

 

So am I. I just also do Nightmare Ops to keep me from getting bored.

Edited by Evolixe
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Who said anything about 110 in a wz.

 

You're being told that you're straight up wrong about not needing 110 for pve.

 

Many years after launch is still better than never to hear about 10% dodge and resist on bosses.

 

You only know about these things if you join a decently organised raiding guild or read any PVE guide ever, just playing the game since launch doesn't tell you all that.

 

You can do more dps if you ignore accuracy and RNG says you don't miss.

 

Boss fights go on for a long time, RNG can't keep it up and you don't get to choose what you miss. Was that attack meant to buff another ability? Can't do that when it misses. Are you meant to knock that AOE damage blade off the platform? Oh it resisted, well that's awkward, we'll just have to take AOE damage on the raid until your push is back off cooldown and you can try again. Resisted again? Just rotate this guy out he's taking the piss by not speccing accuracy.

 

Organised PVE doesn't go for needless RNG BS in their abilities. They want abilities to hit and do what they are meant to.

 

stop miss quoting me seriously. i said you can get your 105 in wz period but it is not needed 4 % amounts to nada for much of a change difference in hit or miss in wzs period .End of story you either take chance of a few misses but hit harder or you take few less misses and hit for alot less. it comes down to personal preference which mine is as stated . i rather hit harder miss rarely few times then hit like a mosquito and miss less.. pve your in longer fights you need more accuracy to get your dps out there pvp totally different story .

 

I dont give a crap for if i miss twice out of 20 attacks does not matter i am still killing very fast regardless of your mistaken glory of 4 % less accuracy. means no good.

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he's mostly a pvper, not that bad either. with what I read here tough I wouldn't endorse him on my raid team.

 

In pvp you can get away with high crit/power build, and sometimes its going to work, sometimes its not. Its like throwing a dime.

 

He'll never misses his discharges and ball lightning, because force attack.

 

I personnaly think the investment for 105% accuracy is so low for PvP, unless you are a sorc and possibly an engi sniper (and even then, I run 105% on mine) you'd be crazy not to run it. Its literally 1 enhencement and 1 augment. Meanwhile, using those for extra crit will barely give you an extra %, and alacrity is probably pushing the DR too. Using it for power or mastery is a bit more passable.

 

 

Now in PvE, you can get away with 109.8ish% if you want (720 accuracy), and some do swear by it. Its close enough than a 2.5M dummy parse can be made without missing. But eventually you will miss one. It could be in that awesome crit lucky parse you were making.

 

It could be in an HM ops in a dps burst check phase where your miss will mean the difference between a raid wipe and a pass. Tbh, with 0.2%, probably won't happen often, but it can. There is enough RNG in many fight that I personnally prefer to control the part I have an input over.

 

missing an attack 5% of the time is actually a lot to compensate for. Even if you suppose all those attacks were non crit. Run the math, its rather obvious, just like alacrity is sometimes overlooked by some people because "they have no cast".

 

iv done pve before and i know 110 is needed but sins can get away with little less in comparision to other's personal ratio i used when pve was 108 accuracy to be quite honest. Yes im mostly pvp now and im talking mostly on a pvp term set up not pve.

 

I run 101 accuracy in pvp and as i stated it works for me there is really a very minor difference between 101 and 105 but plz the rest of you can go on saying how im wrong that 4 % makes or breaks you.

Edited by falkron-kerupt
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stop miss quoting me seriously. i said you can get your 105 in wz period but it is not needed 4 % amounts to nada for much of a change difference in hit or miss in wzs period .End of story you either take chance of a few misses but hit harder or you take few less misses and hit for alot less. it comes down to personal preference which mine is as stated . i rather hit harder miss rarely few times then hit like a mosquito and miss less.. pve your in longer fights you need more accuracy to get your dps out there pvp totally different story .

 

I dont give a crap for if i miss twice out of 20 attacks does not matter i am still killing very fast regardless of your mistaken glory of 4 % less accuracy. means no good.

 

You don't hit for "a lot" less. You hit marginally less. And only on crits. Like I said before, the amount is closer to a couple of percent points. Around 1.2% on the actual crits. But call it 2% since you also crit less.

 

Then again, that isn't really a factor on the main source of the Sin burst, which is Recklessness (autocrit after 40% crit chance) and setbonus autocrit. So for your 400 damage on top of my 30k, you miss infinitely more often (since I dont miss on regular people) and miss more than twice as often on consulars and inquisitors.

 

I mean.. lol. By all means, you go for that Surge. But don't pretend that it's any good to do so.

Edited by Evolixe
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