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Tier 1 – 3 Changes Coming in 5.2


EricMusco

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Which rule set will a box earned under the current rules, but not opened until the new rules follow?

Rule set is determined by when they are opened, not when they were generated:

 

Oh! Someone asked me this on Twitter and I wanted to make sure it is captured here as well. The contents of your Command Crates is determined when you open them (think of how it works with Disciplines). So any Tier 1-3 crates you have prior to 5.2 will have the adjusted drop rates if you open them after 5.2 goes live.

 

-eric

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Excellent post! It is a step in the right direction, I give them credit for finally making substantial changes, but there's still the elephant in the room, the same one that's been here since 5.0 dropped...RNG.

 

IT's quickly becoming the most polished turd in history. look at that shine, you could comb your hair in that reflective gleam. It still stinks, mind you, but oh would you look at that sparkle!.;)

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Im sorry, but you should not have access to top end gear doing heroics. They are ridiculously easy, and you dont NEED that gear for it. And this would cause people to just do senselessly easy content in order to get the best of the best gear, which should NEVER be possible.

 

for once I agree with this elitist sentiment. this would make certain endgame NiM content even more pointless...which it already is really to a large extent. Not pointless, but even less people would do it (Hm/ Nim) as I think most would hide behind "farming" easy mndless content which they already are doing.

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for once I agree with this elitist sentiment. this would make certain endgame NiM content even more pointless...which it already is really to a large extent. Not pointless, but even less people would do it (Hm/ Nim) as I think most would hide behind "farming" easy mndless content which they already are doing.

 

While I don't agree with the "you don't "need/deserve" the end game gear if you don't do end game content" mentality, I at least recognize it exists and apparently upsets people when other people even just ask about it. (not your post, but the one you quoted)

 

Not everyone can, or is even interested in, getting into a "raid team"

 

Personally speaking, I'd much rather farm the weekly planetary missions, or heroics, to get high end gear than be bothered with joining up with 7 random people and HOPE I find a group that gets along and knows what they're doing...and so on (I actually did kind of find such a group on POT5 and a different one on Ebon Hawk).

 

The mindless repetition of heroics would be my preferred method of gearing, the same way I used to do before 5.0.

If it's strictly the NIM level endgame gear that people are so worried about people like me getting...take that highest level out of the equation.

 

By the time I got that far along anyway, there's probably be one or two more higher levels at that time.

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I'm glad you are making these changes, but another thing you guys seem to have forgotten is not all "legendary" items are equal. For example, a legendary relic of the Primeval Fatesealer is still basically worthless. Is there anything in place to make sure we don't get worthless legendary items as we get higher up in a tier?
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Im sorry, but you should not have access to top end gear doing heroics. They are ridiculously easy, and you dont NEED that gear for it. And this would cause people to just do senselessly easy content in order to get the best of the best gear, which should NEVER be possible.

 

Except that if they have reached command rank 300 they will have access to set gear so according to your logic they shouldn't have that either. I am a group player and I don't have a problem with a person who is paying a sub to have another way to get the same gear I can get by doing other things other than what I do.

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for once I agree with this elitist sentiment. this would make certain endgame NiM content even more pointless...which it already is really to a large extent. Not pointless, but even less people would do it (Hm/ Nim) as I think most would hide behind "farming" easy mndless content which they already are doing.

 

I can understand the sentiment but don't fully agree with it. I think folks doing casual content should be able to earn BiS gear, although at a much slower rate that preserves the incentive to do end-game content. At the end of the day, I don't see how it affects me one iota if a casual player can get the same gear I can get.

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While I think this is good, I am now wondering if I should stop my progression in CR. Seems if I wait I get better gear.

 

Well I have one character only within tier two with 35 levels to go to get to 3. All my others are still at various levels within teir one. Though have to say I have been very lucky on drops getting a set item approx. every 10 crates. Maybe while the boost is still on it may pay to try to get all to tier two. On the other hand once the boost is over it take far longer to go though the levels, with tier 4 on it's way? Oh decisions decisions!

 

 

Anyway thank you very much for the update now going over to see what you have put down in the tier 4 thread.

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I disagree.

 

1) While on use relics aren't BiS for dummy parsing, there are fights where more concentrated dps is better than overall fluff during non-critical part of fights.

2) BiS should not be guaranteed by grinding easy content. The possibility of getting there with good RNG is fine. If you want to guarantee non-set bonus and "A" mods fine, not BiS.

3) Debatable but you then approach the guaranteed BiS from grinding KOTFE chapters. I'd prefer a random unassembled piece, so it can be shared with an alt if duplicate, not elimination of duplicate pieces.

 

I disagree with you :D

RND is the real problem of this system, they can change the rates all they want, it will not make much of a difference.

Real Example: I'm of the lucky ones in having almost 10% set bonus drop rate average in tier 1 (that is really high comparing to others). BUT, almost 50% are duplicates(and for some is even worst). The new change will probably make those with less luck than me get a similar set bonus proportion; but the duplicates is not addresed. Duplicates that i cannot use on alt, as my alts require OTHER bonus. And lets return at the relics, you cannot choose wich one you get, i had 4+ of the same, same with Ear and implants, several variations of each and you cannot choose or share with alts.

For me the solution could be simple. Remove the gear COMPLETLY from Command crates. Keep the crates for the other extras: schematics,mounts, gifts, pets, rep, cosmetics, etc and provide tokens to buy the gear DIRECTLY. All tier 1 combined should provided tokens that are good for a full 14 pieces Tier 1 and some SPARE. Tier 2, the same for Tier 2 (and some spare), tier 3 ...

The spare should be a "little" extra for alts or respecs. With that and current CXP rate, the system would be fair. I'm mostly a casual player, it would still require me a couple months to be Tier 3.

Solution 2: Disintegration of gear (purple/gold) should provide its value back in currency (like UC). I prefer the other solution, but this could be a workarround.

 

I started playing at the end of 4.X and before deciding to actually sub i considered the leveling and gearing curve: No grind and direct choosing of gear was the selling point for me. It was just a dream once 5.0 landed. If this continues i will just complete class stories and unsub.

 

And now we even have a Tier 4. Is like they are making the wrong choices on purpose. The gap from bolster(232) to 240/242 Tier 3 is bad now on PvP. It will be worst with Tier 4 (and then with Tier 5).

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for once I agree with this elitist sentiment. this would make certain endgame NiM content even more pointless...which it already is really to a large extent. Not pointless, but even less people would do it (Hm/ Nim) as I think most would hide behind "farming" easy mndless content which they already are doing.

 

Doesn't one do content because one enjoys it? Perhaps there is a problem with this content then if people don't want to do it and would need such strong incentives. Also, yes, I did raid once upon a time.

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Im sorry, but you should not have access to top end gear doing heroics. They are ridiculously easy, and you dont NEED that gear for it. And this would cause people to just do senselessly easy content in order to get the best of the best gear, which should NEVER be possible.

 

I begrudgingly agree with this statement. I don't agree with limiting gear only to those who "need" it because that concept of "need" is arbitrary. Yes you need top gear for the hardest content but one cannot say what else some players would need good gear for. Just because you can run through Eternal Championship in 230's doesn't mean I can. However, I do agree that Heroics are WAY too easy a path for top end gear, unless you make the drop rate ridiculously low, or keep it as is, connected to RNG.

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After 5.2, gear drops get much better as you progress through the Tier. Let’s say you were getting close to the top of your Tier, this is what your drop rates will look like:

  • Premium: No longer drop
  • Prototype: Medium-low drop rate
  • Artifact: Medium-high drop rate
  • Legendary: Medium drop rate

I really appreciate all this communication. :):):)

 

One concern that I have is that the "devil is in the details" as they say. I know you already covered the questions about actual drop rates. I'm not too concerned about that, since the wording you used gives us a pretty good idea.

 

My concern is with the above underlined section. Using an extreme example, what if "close to the top of your tier" means e.g. Command Rank 89 / 90? In other words, the drop rates stay flat until you are almost out of your tier. Then of course once you get past that tier, the drop rates go back to the normal low level. If you got unlucky with your one crate, it would be very possible for you to see little to no benefit from this change. So, my opinion on this depends entirely on the numbers, creating a range of opinion anywhere from "YAY" to "ewww."

 

I know this was an extreme example and I seriously doubt that this will happen, but I'm just trying to get a point across. Thanks! :)

Edited by teclado
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I like that these tweaks won't leave us at the mercy of the RNG as much anymore, so overall, that sounds positive.

 

The thing that does worry me though is these varying drop rates as you advance. If this means that I'm better off hoarding my boxes until I hit a certain Combat Level, say not opening my tier 1's until 50, can't say I'm for that. Even if you don't save the boxes an entire time, it still encourages stockpiling boxes so the drop rates go up. And if the drop rates are so high in the last 15-20 levels that you're pretty much guaranteed a full set there, well, not a super fan of that either, as it sort of invalidates the need for the previous levels. Might as well have fewer levels per tier then.

 

I'd hope the system instead essentially adds more tiers, potentially quality. Like having green, blue, purple and orange boxes because the example listed three varying drop rates) boxes as you go through the tier. So for tier 1, 1-30 would give you green tier 1 boxes. 31-55 gives you blue. 56-75 purple. And then 76-90 would be oranges, where the best drop rates are. Potentially, 76-88 being orange, and then the last 2 are a step up from that, with a guaranteed token in them that can be exchanged at a special vendor, as a bit of RNG protection. That way, you have no reason to stockpile the boxes, and no need to have overly high drop rates of the good stuff.

 

While I don't agree with the "you don't "need/deserve" the end game gear if you don't do end game content" mentality, I at least recognize it exists and apparently upsets people when other people even just ask about it. (not your post, but the one you quoted)

 

Not everyone can, or is even interested in, getting into a "raid team"

 

Personally speaking, I'd much rather farm the weekly planetary missions, or heroics, to get high end gear than be bothered with joining up with 7 random people and HOPE I find a group that gets along and knows what they're doing...and so on (I actually did kind of find such a group on POT5 and a different one on Ebon Hawk).

 

The mindless repetition of heroics would be my preferred method of gearing, the same way I used to do before 5.0.

If it's strictly the NIM level endgame gear that people are so worried about people like me getting...take that highest level out of the equation.

 

By the time I got that far along anyway, there's probably be one or two more higher levels at that time.

Yeah, as someone who has played at all levels in MMOs, from being part of the top guild on a server, to just doing PUG raids, to not raiding, to running a guild and organizing raids, I don't buy into the "deserve" bit either. If deserve factored in, the people doing the actual organizing and the few people that you count on to do the right thing in a raid would have the best rewards, not the same ones as the the rest who you mostly rely on just to not do the wrong thing. But the reality is that if those people the raid really relies on deserve the best loot, then over half of raiders don't deserve the same quality. That said...

 

It's really a matter of finding the right balance of what Furor (at the time, leader of one of the top guilds in EQ, and later, possibly still currently, Blizzard employee working on WoW) used to call PITA (pain in the...) vs reward. It's perfectly fine if both raid and solo content offers the same rewards, as long as that PITA factor is balanced. He went with that terminology over "risk vs reward" because he realized there really isn't any risk, as well as that time and the path of least resistance matter. Which in that case would mean that getting the gear through group and/or harder content would need to be sufficiently faster to offset the slower pace due to needing to organize people/deal with slower progress through the content. Find the right balance and people who want to raid will raid, and people who don't won't, and both will be viable.

 

Which means that if operations offer the highest possible return on CXP by a sufficient amount, people will do them. Especially if there's some extra loot tossed into the mix. Maybe some speeders, some nifty looking gear, titles, or maybe some ever-so-slightly better loot.

Edited by Battilea
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I really appreciate all this communication. :):):)

 

One concern that I have is that the "devil is in the details" as they say. I know you already covered the questions about actual drop rates. I'm not too concerned about that, since the wording you used gives us a pretty good idea.

 

My concern is with the above underlined section. Using an extreme example, what if "close to the top of your tier" means e.g. Command Rank 89 / 90? In other words, the drop rates stay flat until you are almost out of your tier. Then of course once you get past that tier, the drop rates go back to the normal low level. If you got unlucky with your one crate, it would be very possible for you to see little to no benefit from this change. So, my opinion on this depends entirely on the numbers, creating a range of opinion anywhere from "YAY" to "ewww."

 

I know this was an extreme example and I seriously doubt that this will happen, but I'm just trying to get a point across. Thanks! :)

 

Fair question! No, it is not that extreme. Using Tier 1 as an example: Command Rank 50 would have better drop rates than 1 and 80 would have better rates than 50, etc.

 

-eric

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Fair question! No, it is not that extreme. Using Tier 1 as an example: Command Rank 50 would have better drop rates than 1 and 80 would have better rates than 50, etc.

 

-eric

 

So it's prudent to never open any crates until you are almost out of a tier?

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I'm glad to see the steady subscriber drop has gotten your attention and while these changes are nice, they are not good enough to keep me subbed. This is just fixing a very broken and very, very unpopular system. As someone said earlier, the real problem is RNG.

 

I couldn't imagine participating in an endgame system designed for a free to play model that's locked behind a subscription. I'' be back to check out 6.0, but as long as GC remains in the game, I'll find another game to play.

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  • Dev Post
So it's prudent to never open any crates until you are almost out of a tier?

 

It is my understanding that after 5.2 Command Crates drop rates are determined by the Rank you acquire them, not the rank you open them.

 

I am working with the team to get a full understanding of this interaction. I should have more info Monday but I don't believe you can "game it" by opening them at certain levels. I will let you know.

 

-eric

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IS the fact 230-236 Devastating Vengeance relics are missing from the Tier1/ Tier2/Tier3 unassembled relic vender gona be fix all the other relics present but that one is missing... One cant turn in these relics to get relic they want

 

I have reported multiple times in game too

Edited by Kyuuu
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Still need something to make T1-T3 competitive with T4, so playing alts doesn't feel like I'm slowing down progression.

Bolster would be 238, which is the same 8 point bolster difference as previous, and less than the 10 levels it is now (232 to 242)

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These changes are nice SMALL steps in the right direction. But you've not addressed the fact this is still a loot lottery by RNG. which is not what anyone wanted or asked for . It's not thrilling™ there is not excitement ™ from constantly destroying crate garbage due to lack of a good gear drop. So I'd like to ask since the dev team seems stubborn and loves RNG so much can we have the Dev team's paychecks determined by RNG too!. Maybe then they'll feel the frustration and pain the player base that's so against this RNG garbage has felt and continues to endure. That until real changes are made to this messed up butt backwards system called 5.0.

 

Til then these proposed changes announced is nothing more then putting lipstick on a pig and calling it improvements when it's really not done anything but shine up a bag a garbage . It's still a bag of garbage. Good luck with this tire fire , maybe things will get better in 6.0 if there is a 6.0 ....

 

-Frustrated and alienated player .

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