Bioware Please Merge Servers

[Drake_Averrod]

The part where it does any good for the game would be nice. Are server merges going to suddenly make everyone come back to the game, or a few thousand people suddenly want to play? Is the "perception" that game has closed 16 servers going to make shareholders want to invest in the future of the game? Is it going to make any significant difference to the queues by adding a small percentage to a much busier server?

 

Or is it going to piss off a good few subscribers, players who aren't even going to bother sending in tickets to have all their stuff back, essentially making the merge pointless, when the people you are trying to force onto your serer just walk away instead.

 

I have to agree with this. The Server merge discussions seem to forget one important thing and that is the reason why people stopped playing in the first place. The only things server merges ever could achieve is consolidate server population and give people on this consolidated server more people to play with. Which to me considering the state of the game feels more like putting a small band aid on a big wound.

 

I would theorize that the vast majority of people who left, did so not because of population but of content or rather lack thereof. So consolidated servers would not stop the loss of players. At best it would slow it down.

 

I myself have mixed feelings about it. I am currently still content with the population on the Progenitor but can agree that faster FP/whatever pops are always nice. If we get merged it would probably be with TRE and that would make me lose my mains name (I checked) which would seriously hurt my enjoyment of the game. Currently the wait for a FP pop doesn't. WZ pop fast enough. Getting into an ops group also isn't hard. What does bother me is the serious lack of fresh repeatable content at all difficulty levels.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Drake_Averrod

[RudeDog]

I disagree. Before they put in the ability to add a <space> within a name, yeah.. it was actually a pretty strong issue as names are important to many players. But.. now.. if they did at some point merge a server, you would either keep your name or get a free rename and you could use your original name + add a space + add a middle or last name style format. It's actually a better naming system now then at launch... by quite a margin.

 

You can disagree all you want, but it doesn't make you right. I may have a name that is one word name like Madonna. I may turn off Legacy surnames because I want to be known by that one name.

 

How do I keep that same exact name by adding spaces or additional surnames? The answer is I can't. If I have the name Madonna and am known by that name then that is the name I want and I don't want to change it or add to it. I am now going to see if the name Madonna is available...

 

The naming issue is just one of many and if they cannot satisfy everyone on the name issue then they aren't likely to satisfy everyone on the other issues that are just as important or more important.

 

Finally, I will reiterate that for the merge server advocates if you are not satisfied with the server population of your server then please avail yourself of the 90CC transfers and take responsibility for yourself as opposed to trying to negatively impact me by merging servers. My server and game play experience is fine (beyond the normal complaints of GC, breaking stuff, not fixing stuff, etc.).

[Talon_strikes]

Tux, most of us have agreed that some servers need closing but that is not enough for some people. Some people want everyone on Harbinger and they don't care about anything else other than what they want.

 

Why in the world would a roleplayer want to go to Harbinger? There is nothing wrong with Ebon Hawk but you say that and you are told you are wrong. Interesting to be told that I am wrong when I play there and even group up in heroics with people around the area.

 

But that isn't enough for some people. They want what they want and they will not listen to anyone that has a different point of view. They stomp their feet like a two-year old child that wants their way. Lucky for them they are not my child as they would be sitting in a corner until they learn they don't get everything they want.

I hope this isn't lowkey addressing me, because I have never advocated for Harbinger to be the ONLY server. Though Tuxxy is probably right in his assessment, in that all the servers could fit on Harb alone at this point, but that wouldn't be the best thing.

 

For the US I've called for 1 normal server and 1 RP for East Coast and West Coast. For EU it seems to be a mixed bag. I've called for EU to just be The Red Eclipse and 1 RP server but some have disagreed and said that 1 normal server should exist for German and French communities, but I've heard time and time again that TRE's foreign communities are much larger than their respective servers.

 

Dang, is it that time of week again where everyone comes back on and repeats the same arguments that they've already posted in this thread 300 times? Maybe if you all say it enough times that'll convince us.

 

I almost wish they finally would merge the servers just to get you morons to shut up. Pity we won't be able to go back to the way things are now when that happens, and you realise that it didn't fix anything.

 

If we wanted to play on Harbinger, we would already have moved. Forcing this move on us is just going to cause people to move away from the game. And it's not going to bring people back, or suddenly make thousands of new players want to play.

Galactic Command has done that already. Going by the amounts of players who've been asking for mass server consolidations for months now I'm pretty sure this would be met with overall open arms. And what's going to bring people back and make thousands of new players want to play is a whole different topic.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Talon_strikes

[RudeDog]

Yes they do. They DO do harm...in perception and retention.

 

3 years ago, Pot5 was the largest PvP server this game had. We had 3 instances of Pub Fleet any night of the week, 4 on weekends. With new attention on PvP, starting in 5.2, it is a tragic mistake to have Pot5 open like it currently is. IF a player comes back to check out the "PvP update", they'll see within minutes just how dead the game is and they'll never give SWTOR another look.

 

Perception is reality to these players. They are NOT going to pay $1 extra to a dead game. Leaving the dead servers open DOES do harm.

 

Then I would say that the answer is to prevent new players from creating characters on these servers as opposed to forcing people to move and shutting them down. I can only speak for myself but if I was forced to merge and lost my names and had other issues with the transfer process I would probably just quit. I have already canceled my 6 month subscription just because of the current state of the game, but I plan to resub with the new game director change and will give him a chance. Forced merges would be a surefire way to definitely lose my subscription and the extra money I spend on CC on a regular basis.

[Talon_strikes]

"constantly tune server populations"... and you're the one talking about "false flag arguments" ? It's been over four years since the last merges and we've had servers on life support (that are now dead) for much longer than a year. You say it's only 3 servers in the US, I disagree, but 3 servers in NA (there are plenty of dead servers in EUR, too) is just under 40% of the existing NA servers - how is that not "a lot"? BW, through Eric and at least 2 past producers separately have admitted that server populations have been having problems and all have "promised" solutions like "better than x-server" but they have so far done NOTHING. Your argument is not that you don't want servers "constantly tuned" it's that you don't want them tuned at all. And there were people on these boards saying exactly the same thing before the first merges, btw, "we don't need merges", "I always find things to do with my guild", "bw pls don't take away my names", "but I like not having dirty euphemisms in fleet chat", etc..

 

Proper server size is one that accommodates lfg qs for core activities. If not 24/7 (ideal) then at least during prime time. Unless all you want to do is play wzs at max level and run veteran flashpoints, the current game doesn't do that at all on all but a few servers. Events are ghost towns - getting in pug groups for things like the XenoAnalyst fight is much harder than it used to be even though the fight itself is easier than ever. Things like HM/Master fp qs, Uprisings (HM/Master and otherwise), Operations, Ranked PVP and GSF are just very hard to get into unless you know exactly how to spam fleet or you're in a large guild with lots of currently active players. That's not healthy and there's no good reason for that situation to remain.

 

Ask any 10 mmoers and a majority will tell you the game with dead servers (and no x-server) isn't worth trying or going back to. That's not a "false flag" that's just how this industry works. In the very old days, it was nice being on lighter population servers in some games because there was actual competition for kills and hunting areas in games that hadn't invented instances. Those days are over - it's easy now to quickly go from 1-70 in this game and eventually get the best gear possible without ever waiting in line or otherwise interacting with anyone if you don't want to, even on Harbinger.

At this point Andryah is being contrarian just to be contrarian. She likes to act like she knows what she's talking about but you're absolutely right about her "false flag" assessment.

 

What Tuxxy said is also relevant...

Yes they do. They DO do harm...in perception and retention.

 

3 years ago, Pot5 was the largest PvP server this game had. We had 3 instances of Pub Fleet any night of the week, 4 on weekends. With new attention on PvP, starting in 5.2, it is a tragic mistake to have Pot5 open like it currently is. IF a player comes back to check out the "PvP update", they'll see within minutes just how dead the game is and they'll never give SWTOR another look.

 

Perception is reality to these players. They are NOT going to pay $1 extra to a dead game. Leaving the dead servers open DOES do harm.

I wonder how many people have quit and don't subscribe as long as their characters are stuck on dead servers or, decided to come back, saw their dead server, proceeded to log off and never look back. They shouldn't have to pay to transfer off their whole legacy either. It shouldn't be on them for the developers' mistakes which have caused this mess.

[Icykill_]

You can disagree all you want, but it doesn't make you right. I may have a name that is one word name like Madonna. I may turn off Legacy surnames because I want to be known by that one name.

 

How do I keep that same exact name by adding spaces or additional surnames? The answer is I can't. If I have the name Madonna and am known by that name then that is the name I want and I don't want to change it or add to it. I am now going to see if the name Madonna is available...

 

The naming issue is just one of many and if they cannot satisfy everyone on the name issue then they aren't likely to satisfy everyone on the other issues that are just as important or more important.

 

Finally, I will reiterate that for the merge server advocates if you are not satisfied with the server population of your server then please avail yourself of the 90CC transfers and take responsibility for yourself as opposed to trying to negatively impact me by merging servers. My server and game play experience is fine (beyond the normal complaints of GC, breaking stuff, not fixing stuff, etc.).

 

I started expecting mergers over 12 months ago because on Bastion (pvp server at the time) there was no Pvp. Bioware had demonstrated time and again that they did not want low population servers and their solution was server mergers. I had a few character names I wanted to keep, so in preparation I went to Harbinger to see if they were taken. 1 of them was, but I reserved the rest. Might I suggest you go to a server you think could likely be a destination server and make place name characters on that server.

[Andryah]

At this point Andryah is being contrarian just to be contrarian. She likes to act like she knows what she's talking about but you're absolutely right about her "false flag" assessment.

 

You do not speak for me, so please stop trying. I know I know.. you are simply trying to discredit my comments or meta-censor me in some way with this tactic. It won't work.

 

I agree with comments from other players when.. wait for it.. I actually agree with them (and I do in fact state my agreement with a good number of posted comments in this forum).

 

AND

 

I disagree.. wait for it.. when I disagree with them (and I do in fact state my disagreement with a good number of posted comments in this forum).

 

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Which side I fall on in any particular discussion is completely dependent on what someone else decides to post, in the context of my personal views on a topic.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Andryah

[Andryah]

I started expecting mergers over 12 months ago because on Bastion (pvp server at the time) there was no Pvp. Bioware had demonstrated time and again that they did not want low population servers and their solution was server mergers. I had a few character names I wanted to keep, so in preparation I went to Harbinger to see if they were taken. 1 of them was, but I reserved the rest. Might I suggest you go to a server you think could likely be a destination server and make place name characters on that server.

 

Clearly the PvPers largely decided to aggregate on Harbinger beginning when the low cost transfer fees arrived. More power to them for using a process provided to them to relocate to a server that they feel meets their needs.

 

So.. here's a question... a sincere question...if Bastion is dead and needs to be closed/merged.. why are there still players on Bastion, even though it is a low number? I mean what stops them from doing what everyone else did? I'm sure the answer is varied, and for each player valid in their particular case.... but this is a valid point of analysis in the topic of server merges.

 

Now.. let me restate my viewpoint on server merges at a strategic level: The studio SHOULD indeed solve the issues with moving guilds intact, without disruption, as well as all character assets of all kinds. This is integral and needed prior to stepping into another round of forced merges. Then.. and ONLY then... the studio should lock a server they plan to close/merge, give all remaining characters 6 weeks to transfer off (for free) and then forceably transfer any remaining characters to a server of the studios choosing.. and then pull the plug.

 

I'm not against the idea of server consolidation plans over time. All companies do that.. the fact that this one does not IS an issue, but not one that freezes any players to a particular server.. so it's not a crisis. But we all know (or by now in the discussion should know) the crux of the issue.. they can't transfer guilds intact.. period. They need to fix that.. and then we can have a more meaningful and less divisive discussion about actual merges.

 

What I DO NOT support, and never will, is this ongoing "all the servers are dead, except server X, merge servers now" mantra some players prosecute here. There are three quasi-dead servers in NA..... Bastion, Jung Ma, and PoT5. I say quasi dead because they are still open and you can roll characters on them, etc.. but the bulk of their players moved off of them at 90cc a pop long ago. The other servers are still healthy... (acknowledging that as forum members, many of us do not agree as to what the term "healthy" actually means). I would say the one to watch closely is Begeren Colony... as it is the smallest server in the remaining servers. I still GTN there and it's not dead.. though it clearly does not have a population to support group finder efficiently.. but it very much appears that the residents do not care about that, or they would move. But I would also say Begeren Colony is not what I would consider in strong health, because it's player economy does appear to be struggling some.... and that is a good marker for trying to assess overall server population health beyond just looking at GF pop rates or the ever popular "whose on Fleet".

 

As for which servers to close and/or consolidate... I leave that to the studio to figure out.. but first they have to get off their backsides and solve a 5 year old problem ----> the ability to move a guild from server to server intact and without any disruptions.

 

The studio DOES however need to leave sufficient "head room" on each server to insure it can accept the normal intervals of peaks and valleys as players sub-in for new content, and then sub-out and wait for the next wave of new content. You cannot squish them all together and then have no room for periodic influxes of subs/resubs as some are actually suggesting without really thinking it through or realizing it. And history on Harbinger has shown that these servers do not perform well when filled up.. so they seem to need reserve capacity at all times (and so it's good that they can scale them up or down to some degree as needed, as we saw them do when 4.0 launched).

 

Personally, I think the studio is simply taking the easy path for them.... perpetual unlimited 90cc transfers, which empower players to move where they feel most loved, while the studio does not have to own the guild transfer issues. It's weak sauce in my view... but there is absolutely nothing any of us can do about it. I like the empowering players with process to make choices.. but this issue with guilds IS still an issue for players moving under the 90cc transfer too... so it needs to be owned and addressed.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Andryah

[Icykill_]

What Tuxxy said is also relevant...

 

I wonder how many people have quit and don't subscribe as long as their characters are stuck on dead servers or, decided to come back, saw their dead server, proceeded to log off and never look back. They shouldn't have to pay to transfer off their whole legacy either. It shouldn't be on them for the developers' mistakes which have caused this mess.

 

I agree with this assessment. They even made the issue worse by removing the ability on the login screen to see the server activity. That means any new players might roll on a low pop server and get the impression the game is dead. That has to hurt public perception which can kill a game.

[fushnchips]

I agree with this assessment. They even made the issue worse by removing the ability on the login screen to see the server activity. That means any new players might roll on a low pop server and get the impression the game is dead. That has to hurt public perception which can kill a game.

 

They just need to lock those servers down no new characters or no transfers to those servers, If I bought the game and made an instant 65 toon on Jung Ma/Pot5/bastion and saw how horrible it is I would be furious and asking for the token back.

[Cruxa]

II've called for EU to just be The Red Eclipse and 1 RP server but some have disagreed and said that 1 normal server should exist for German and French communities, but I've heard time and time again that TRE's foreign communities are much larger than their respective servers.

 

It doesn't matter at all whether the german and french communities on Red Eclipse are larger than the respective communities on their designated servers as long as both communities are healthy. That would be the same as saying "The Harbinger is bigger than Ebon Hawk, therefore Ebon Hawk should be merged into Harbinger." It's not an argument at all.

 

Even if it would be, I'd doubt the fact itself too. How exactly are these numbers determined? Number and size of guilds on all three servers, activity of general chat for the specific languages, or something else? It can't be length of queues, because that's obviously also influenced by the english speaking community on Red Eclipse...

[Ratajack]

They just need to lock those servers down no new characters or no transfers to those servers, If I bought the game and made an instant 65 toon on Jung Ma/Pot5/bastion and saw how horrible it is I would be furious and asking for the token back.

 

The problem with this is that it may lock players out of playing with friends.

 

Johnny is on a "dead" server, but is very happy there. His friend Billy wants to try the game and join Johnny. Billy cannot do that if BW "locks out" new characters or transfers.

 

 

I do think that BW should give a better idea of server population on the server selection screen. I recognize that may still give a "bad impression" since the newer higher capacity servers rarely get above "standard" and are often "light", even Harbinger during off peak hours.

 

 

I'd like to see BW list servers by overall relative population, get rid of the "PVP" designation for the old "PVP" servers and list servers such as Ebon Hawk as RP.

[Tsillah]

My concern is that server merges by themselves are not a solution so that unless they combine it with some solutions that will actually bring more players to the game, we'll just end up with 2 servers and still have long queues and that's the optimistic version.

[MaximusRex]

That was 4 years ago maybe they have some Improvements and are capable of doing a full merge without an issue.

 

The fact that Character Transfers pretty much mean lose all that stuff, plus Strongholds and Legacy Bank, would tend to show that they haven't improved the system at all since then, and forced mergers now would be even worse then the old ones.

[Ratajack]

The fact that Character Transfers pretty much mean lose all that stuff, plus Strongholds and Legacy Bank, would tend to show that they haven't improved the system at all since then, and forced mergers now would be even worse then the old ones.

 

Logic, facts and rational thoughts on the forums? Not blindly supporting mass server merges?

 

You must be trolling. Be prepared to be added to certain posters' ignore lists.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Ratajack

[fushnchips]

The problem with this is that it may lock players out of playing with friends.

 

Johnny is on a "dead" server, but is very happy there. His friend Billy wants to try the game and join Johnny. Billy cannot do that if BW "locks out" new characters or transfers..

 

even better they should close those servers

[Ratajack]

even better they should close those servers

 

And force those players who choose to remain on those servers and are very happy on those servers to suffer the nightmares and headaches that would accompany the closure of their chosen server?

 

IF BW can resolve ALL the roadblocks and issues surrounding server merges, then merging those "dead" servers becomes a more viable option. Until/unless BW can resolve ALL those issues and roadblocks, though, server merges or closing servers is not something that should be considered a viable option, IMO.

 

No one is "stuck" on any server.

 

There may be players that CHOOSE to remain on their current server for one reason or another, but NO ONE is "stuck" on their current server.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Ratajack

[Icykill_]

The fact that Character Transfers pretty much mean lose all that stuff, plus Strongholds and Legacy Bank, would tend to show that they haven't improved the system at all since then, and forced mergers now would be even worse then the old ones.

 

That's just an assumption. It's also called a character transfer, not a legacy transfer so they don't need to offer SH or legacy items.

[Liquor]

Merge servers

There is no reason for separate RP, PvP, and PvE servers. Combine them all per location and language. Bring back the islander server for our friends in the Pacific. They got screwed being forced to west coast servers years ago and with their high pings

 

 

USA

1 west coast

1 east coast

 

English

1 server

 

 

French

1 server

 

 

German

1 server

 

 

Pacific (sucks they removed it and forced them to west coast) help their pings!

1 server

Edited April 17, 2017 by Liquor

[fushnchips]

I went server hopping the other night and being a Harbinger player I was surprised at how many were playing on The Ebon Hawk compared to Shadowlands and Jedi Covenant that seem to be losing the east coast battle. I just hope Bioware come out with a game plan soon and if they can move entire guilds intact with all the goodies.

 

Mega Servers

 

Option Us servers

 

all West coast servers merged into The Harbinger

all East Coast servers merged into The Ebon Hawk

 

Options 1 European servers

 

All english speaking euro servers merged into The Red Eclipse

All german speaking servers merged into T3-M4

All French speaking servers merged into the main french server

 

Euro option 2 Merge all into one server and have language tabs that are selected by default on the games selected language to break the language barriers.

 

Now those ideas aside who would move servers if Bioware could guarantee a complete move for guilds and players this included Strongholds, Guild ships, Legacy Storage ?

[americanaussie]

Now those ideas aside who would move servers if Bioware could guarantee a complete move for guilds and players this included Strongholds, Guild ships, Legacy Storage ?

 

They can't. You don't get legacy hold on a transfer. A merger just us a free transfer. Been there done that. We had plenty of warnings to secure our items.

[Isaee]

The reality is there are different factions in the discussion, as usual.

 

One faction wants more population on Harbinger, through forced merges, in the thinking that forcing players to Harbinger will somehow result in more people random queuing. It won't.

 

Another faction alleges they are only concerned about the experience of new players who for whatever reason choose one of the old dead PvP servers, get discouraged, and then leave. While this might happen to some new players.. in reality any new player of an MMO very likely either asks in forum here or on reddit, or takes time to google for a few minutes.... to actually find out "where the action is" before settling on a server. And even if they do not.. they can always use the perpetually deeply discounted server transfers to remedy a bad decision after the fact.

 

Another faction believes that given the inability of the studio to merge servers and not destroy guilds in the process, forced merges are bad, and that players who want to be on a more populated server should make use of the now perpetual low cost server transfer features offered by the studio.

 

And we of course have the "MEGASERVER" faction too.. which wants all servers consolidated into some magical megaserver approach. But it is completely unclear that the studio can effectively shift to a megaserver approach, as it was clearly never designed to be that way from the start, so huge rework and bugs would be expected from such an effort.

 

For the most part, these factions simply talk past each other, and then double back and personally attack one another over nothing more then difference of opinion.

 

Let's now attempt to unwrap the chain from the axle here and look at this question of server merges in context. For North America (I'll leave it to EU players to address the EU servers), the servers status of health is roughly as follows:

 

>> Bastion, PoT5, Jung Ma: These three former PvP servers have been largely abandoned over the last 18 months by PvP players who took advantage of low cost transfers to move to, for the most part, aggregate on The Harbinger. The question is relevant as to what the studio intends to do about these three largely deserted servers. I would imagine that the lack of ability to move guilds intact at this point in time is why the studio appears to be sitting on thumbs on these three. Given that most players on these servers left long ago, it's hard to take it seriously when someone demands these be closed/merged.. as what would that achieve really in terms of any measurable improvements in player location?

 

>> Shadowlands and Jedi Convenant: these servers are still active and thriving, even at lower player activity levels. The reasons they continue to have healthy economies, and player activities, is most likely long term residents, and less reliance on random grouping mechanics. In other words, they are more a combination of players who are less reliant on random grouping and/or get their group needs met within their guild and/or circle of friends. There are advocates for merging these two servers, but it does not appear to be advocacy by actual members of these servers, so it's some form of insurgent action by players who do not even play on these servers.

 

>> Ebon Hawk: The second largest server (by population) in NA. Healthy, generally well regarded by it's residents, and with a very clear RP activity level on the server. To suggest this server needs merging with any other server IS ABSURD.

 

>> The Harbinger: Clearly the biggest of the North American servers, and always has been (since the last great merge and deployment of scalable servers). It has retained it's status as the biggest, through yearly ebb and flow of players actively playing the game. It has benefited from more transfers into it then transfers out of it as well... and is generally recognized as "home server" for the avid PvPers now days. Given The Habingers long history of going squirrelly when heavily loaded, in my view, argues against merging other servers into it.

 

>> Begeren Colony: The smallest of the active servers, and it is valid debate as to when and if it should be folded into another server. It still has loyal players on it, but it is pretty small activity levels since the low cost transfer era and hence it tends to have less activity in terms of economy, player activity, etc. Yet it continues to have loyal residents that don't want it merged. Given the studio is apparently unwilling or unconcerned to address the three empty former PvP servers, it is completely unclear when (if ever) the studio would take action to address this server.

 

The various factions can dig in and stick to their viewpoints, which is fine... but they would be wise to talk in context and in specifics to each server rather then some of the more agregious "all servers are dead but Harbinger" nonsense.

 

Just wanted to bump in ... the technically side of server should be left out. Why ? Because when megaservers are coming the server structure is build so that enough players can enter the server without crashing. Harbinger getting on its knees because of great pop is just a matter of the size of the server cluster sooo yes its a biofail.

[Costello]

I am sure if Bioware could they would merge servers.

 

Sadly they seem to lack the ability to do so without causing people to be pissed off they have lost their guild, anything they forgot to get out of legacy storage and possibly their name (to someone who doesn't play or have any wish to return).

 

So they ignore the issue, as they know the numbers support server mergers, while offering cheap transfers there by abdicating their responsibility of any losses cause the player knew ahead of time they wouldn't be able to transfer x, y or z. You lost your name, well that's not our problem you are the one that opted to change servers not us!

[forestguard]

Merge servers

There is no reason for separate RP, PvP, and PvE servers. Combine them all per location and language. Bring back the islander server for our friends in the Pacific. They got screwed being forced to west coast servers years ago and with their high pings

 

There are reasons to separate RP servers from the others, and that's because groups tend to either harass or complain about RPers. On Ebon Hawk, considered by most to be a RP-PvE server, i saw a conversation on fleet about how stupid RP and RP fights are, saying they should just go read a book. RPers need a space to actually RP without getting flak. There's a reason RP servers exist (and why LotRO specific introduced them with special rules)

[ScreamingBeavers]

They don't even need to merge servers. Just go to cross server Q's for PvP OPS ect.. Seems like a much easier fix.