Bioware Please Merge Servers

[Savej]

Source?

 

Even that second hand, third party podcast you keep throwing around as "proof" that BW promised that server merges are absolutely going to happen and are imminent never said "they were going to merge servers."

 

I've listened to that podcast and even those podcasters could only say that "someone from BW" (they could not even say who) said that BW was aware of server population concerns, but that there are many roadblocks to merging servers, and BW did not want to merge servers unless it could be done is such a way that no one would have a bad time-- that there were many issues to resolve, such as things like guilds and guild assets would remain intact, individual strongholds would not have to be redecorated, individual legacy storage vaults would remain intact, naming conflicts were not an issue, etc.

 

It seems that once again someone is taking second hand, third party information and reading into it only what they want to see and hear, and completely disregarding the fact that there has been NO official statement from BW regarding server merges.

 

So you're saying they aren't going to happen? Based on what? No one at BW has talked about merges to your face?

 

The last time merges came up in streams, Ben Irving said "we'll take a look at that early next year". He was assuming that people might flood back into the game for the new expac but that didn't really happen.

 

http://dulfy.net/2016/10/17/swtor-galactic-command-overview-livestream-notes/

 

The talk about merges happens in that stream just before the 30 min mark.

 

Merges were also mentioned in this stream: http://dulfy.net/2016/12/08/swtor-december-producers-livestream-coverage-2/

These were mentioned in the same breath that they mentioned reduced server transfer costs and Ben did slip in that the server transfers were not a solution to the "empty server" problem.

 

Ben has said at least 2x they will do merges "if " the population issues didn't improve with 5.0. They haven't improved.

 

Charles and Eric and other BW people were at the San Antonio Cantina. The answer to the question about merges, which was an update post 5.0, was described as serious and detailed and not at all glib.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Savej

[Ratajack]

So you're saying they aren't going to happen? Based on what? No one at BW has talked about merges to your face?

 

The last time merges came up in streams, Ben Irving said "we'll take a look at that early next year". He was assuming that people might flood back into the game for the new expac but that didn't really happen.

 

http://dulfy.net/2016/10/17/swtor-galactic-command-overview-livestream-notes/

 

The talk about merges happens in that stream just before the 30 min mark.

 

Merges were also mentioned in this stream: http://dulfy.net/2016/12/08/swtor-december-producers-livestream-coverage-2/

These were mentioned in the same breath that they mentioned reduced server transfer costs and Ben did slip in that the server transfers were not a solution to the "empty server" problem.

 

Ben has said at least 2x they will do merges "if " the population issues didn't improve with 5.0. They haven't improved.

 

Charles and Eric and other BW people were at the San Antonio Cantina. The answer to the question about merges, which was an update post 5.0, was described as serious and detailed and not at all glib.

 

I never said that merges would not happen, only that BW has not said that they will happen, despite the claims of some that they did.

 

Even your second hand, third party "source" could not say that BW said that they were going to merge servers, only that someone from BW said that BW was aware of the server population concerns, but that there were roadblocks to server merges. That same second hand, third party source also said that the same BW source had indicated that BW wanted to ensure that if they merged servers that no one would have a "bad time".

 

I'm not saying that merges will not happen, but I would not expect them to happen until/unless all those roadblocks are resolved, if they even can be resolved.

[Icykill_]

A name purge, using the same criteria as the last one, might help with naming conflicts.

 

That does not even begin to address all the other myriad issues that should be addressed and resolved prior to any server merges. Or, do you advocate just ignoring those issues and "too bad for the players who are forced to suffer the headaches and nightmares those issues will cause them."

 

I'd like to see a name purge too. But it has its own problems, ie, it allows all those credit spammers access to more possible names and combinations that don't need to be fhdjdjdndndk

Edited April 7, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

Sorry to interrupt y'all again, but, while I tend to agree with you on some things, in all fairness to the merge server crowd, they wouldn't have a need to "demand ad nauseum" if BW would actually communicate. Instead it's out of site out of mind, business as usual for them. So until they actually say something on the subject I'm going to just assume they don't care and have no plans to do anything at any time, now or later.

 

I said my peace on the topic long ago, but you all can continue bantering on and butting heads as long as it entertains you. No gold posts makes it a non-starter.

 

So, once again, I remind you all to blame BioWare not each other.

 

It's something I've been saying too. Communication on this topic would let people know what's going on.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

And this is why they don't listen to you, respect your opinion or accept your point of you. You chastise and disrespect them at every opportunity so why should they bother listening? You're only hurting yourself and your cause. The "I don't want to be merged crowd" has been hurt more by bad representation than the opposition. Calm down and take them on rationally and maybe you'll get more support for your cause. You're not endearing anyone.

 

I tried to point that out awhile ago and so have others. Most people see it as a personal attack or someone trolling. I've used the ignore feature now because I got sick of it, even though I occasionally have a peak at what theyve written. It only makes me sad when I see they still do it and fact the that they continue on in this regard only makes more people put them on ignore and don't listen.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

Again, the OP is way off the mark. No way does this game need another server merge. WAH about it all you want since you're too cheap to spend 90cc on a server transfer. We're not falling for it.

 

OP unsubbed because the game is dying. Making snide remarks directed at her are a waste of time.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

Obstinate, but it's not without merit. There are some notorious few that are completely irrational in their demands (and it seems their access to the forums is longer being paid for) but it's not every one of them. Middle ground can be found and somewhat has been (in this thread and others floating around here), but it gets drowned out by the insults, name calling and bickering.

 

I tried to be the voice of reason and bring both sides together. It lasted 1-2 pages till those particular person(s) started up again. Even if you agree with them they attack you or are rude.

In any event I think they are either trying to kill the thread by making people get sick of them or they are trolling. They offer nothing new to the discussion, they are even more rigid in their thinking and demands than people wanting mergers. Essentially this persons rigid and uncompromising demands at the expense of the health and continuation of the game are extremely self centred and clearly shows they don't care about anyone else and they have zero empathy or understanding of the issues at stake here.

Most rational people who play the game want to see it succeed. Most want their fellow players to be able to play the way they want and the content they want. But we have a fundamental problem in the game and that is a rapidly shrinking population. Having servers with hardly anyone on them has a massive negative affect on the health of the game and I don't even mean group content, I mean the public perception.

When new players come to try the game and find they are on a server with low population, the perception is the game isn't doing so well. When returning players login to find their server has low population and look to see a vast majority are the same, then they are likely to leave with the same perception. These people will tell others they're point of view of the game and less people are likely to even bother trying it. Then you get people who haven't even tried the game, but have heard from third parties that the game is dying and word spreads not to bother trying it.

One thing that has always stuck with me from my first job I had. For every person who has a bad experience with your product or service, they will tell on average 10 people, those 10 people will tell on average 10 people. Already we have a hundred people who "could" be influenced by that one persons experience. Of course some of those people won't care and try it anyway. But if those people have a bad experience they will continue the ever expanding cycle of bad perception.

The whole thing is hurting the game from a public perspective and also internal player perspective and experience. Dissatisfied long term players are the loudest and biggest opponents of a game if they leave in disgust. The mass exodus after 5.0 certainly hasn't helped, but allowing the current situation to decline is a disaster for the game,

Something needs to be done and a good start would be some public communication from Bioware to try and restore some faith and boost the public perception. The lack of communication is nearly as bad for perception as having so many low population servers. It shows apathy to the players concerns and their negative experiences. To an outsider looking in, they might interpret that lack of communication as an indicator the game is going to be shut down soon.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Icykill_

[Savej]

I never said that merges would not happen, only that BW has not said that they will happen, despite the claims of some that they did.

 

Even your second hand, third party "source" could not say that BW said that they were going to merge servers, only that someone from BW said that BW was aware of the server population concerns, but that there were roadblocks to server merges. That same second hand, third party source also said that the same BW source had indicated that BW wanted to ensure that if they merged servers that no one would have a "bad time".

 

I'm not saying that merges will not happen, but I would not expect them to happen until/unless all those roadblocks are resolved, if they even can be resolved.

 

I listed two first hand sources saying merges were going to happen if "conditions". No one's said "yes, definitely, next month it's going to happen" - I never said anything like that. I never used the word "imminent" - you did. You're making up your own arguments to refute. According to what they said, merges will happen. According to the past behavior patterns of this or any other mmo I know of, merges will happen (assuming the game doesn't get shut down soon). Does that mean they -have- to merge servers? Does that mean they weren't lying every time they've talked about merges in the last six months? No, BW absolutely has lied about and/or failed to follow-up on promises and assurances before,; several tiimes.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Savej

[Icykill_]

I listed two first hand sources saying merges were going to happen if "conditions". No one's said "yes, definitely, next month it's going to happen" - I never said anything like that. I never used the word "imminent" - you did. You're making up your own arguments to refute. According to what they said, merges will happen. According to the past behavior patterns of this or any other mmo I know of, merges will happen (assuming the game doesn't get shut down soon). Does that mean they -have- to merge servers? Does that mean they weren't lying every time they've talked about merges in the last six months? No, BW absolutely has lied about and/or failed to follow-up on promises and assurances before,; several tiimes.

 

He likes to twist the truth just enough to change the meaning of something. Adding one word or two to something is all it takes to change the context. It's how he winds you up to take the next punch when you try to refute what he said, then he'll find a way to twist that too. It's a never ending game with him to get you upset, the more you escalate and try to make your point by using facts, the more he'll try to discredit you and I've even seen him try and turn people's own argument back on them and make it look like he was the one making the point. It suits him to do a whole 180" turn when you show what he's doing and others calling him on it.

It took me a while to see what he was doing. I used to supply facts and try to use logic to make a point. But that makes no difference because he isnt here to argue logically or have a real discussion. Even if he agrees with you on something, its just to get you to drop your guard, he just wants to troll.

Myself and others have used ignore and it filters out all his rubbish and you can actually see what others are saying and have a discussion without scrolling through all his rubbish to find where the real conversation is. Once he realises you are looking at what he's writing, he moves on to another target to troll. The only time I ever see what he writes is if someone quotes him or I have a sneak peak at his rubbish. If more people used the ignore feature we'd probably never hear him trolling again.

[SteveTheCynic]

I'd like to see a name purge too. But it has its own problems, ie, it allows all those credit spammers access to more possible names and combinations that don't need to be fhdjdjdndndk

And of course it doesn't liberate names that don't match the criteria. Since groping the names of subscriber characters is almost certainly a no-no (the previous name purge didn't touch subscriber names nor non-sub names above level 30 or so), people will cry and cry after they can't get the name they wanted. (Perhaps, even, because someone else got in after the servers started but before the crying one, and snagged the name. There are NO guarantees.)

[kodrac]

What would you suggest as a "middle ground" other than what BW has already put in place?

 

A "middle ground" that:

 

1) will leave guilds intact with all guild assets intact, including guild banks and the contents thereof, guild strongholds and guild ships with all unlocked areas and all decorations left intact

 

2) will leave all personal strongholds intact with all decorations left intact

 

3) will leave all personal outfits intact in the outfit designer

 

4) will leave all personal legacy storage vaults intact with all items stored therein

 

5) will not require any name changes

 

6) will accommodate those players who have more than the maximum number of characters for a single server spread across multiple servers

 

7) will not force players who prefer a more civilized and respectful community to be subjected to a cesspool community

 

8) will allow those players who wish to play on more populated servers to do so

 

 

What BW has put in place addresses and accomplishes every one of those.

 

The ideas have already been discussed in this thread and others. I'm not going to repeat them just for you. I'm not taking the bait.

[RobertFKennedyUS]

What would you suggest as a "middle ground" other than what BW has already put in place?

 

A "middle ground" that:

 

1) will leave guilds intact with all guild assets intact, including guild banks and the contents thereof, guild strongholds and guild ships with all unlocked areas and all decorations left intact

 

2) will leave all personal strongholds intact with all decorations left intact

 

3) will leave all personal outfits intact in the outfit designer

 

4) will leave all personal legacy storage vaults intact with all items stored therein

 

5) will not require any name changes

 

6) will accommodate those players who have more than the maximum number of characters for a single server spread across multiple servers

 

7) will not force players who prefer a more civilized and respectful community to be subjected to a cesspool community

 

8) will allow those players who wish to play on more populated servers to do so

 

 

What BW has put in place addresses and accomplishes every one of those.

 

This is a worthless list in so far as it doesn't address the fundamental problem which is the waste of the player base by dividing it into inefficient sub-units. With regards to any questions here that are serious, this was answered long ago: a server merger of Jedi Covenant and Shadowlands, as well as any dead servers merged into live ones.

Edited April 7, 2017 by RobertFKennedyUS

[TUXs]

And this is why they don't listen to you, respect your opinion or accept your point of you. You chastise and disrespect them at every opportunity so why should they bother listening? You're only hurting yourself and your cause. The "I don't want to be merged crowd" has been hurt more by bad representation than the opposition. Calm down and take them on rationally and maybe you'll get more support for your cause. You're not endearing anyone.

He's not trying to find any middle ground, he's just trying to push buttons.

[RobertFKennedyUS]

He's not trying to find any middle ground, he's just trying to push buttons.

 

There's definitely something wrong that people can see when they discuss with him. Definitely expect that if he disagrees with your opinion then he will inject something stupid into it and then criticize it for the stupid component that he attached to it himself.

 

Straw man debate tactic

Edited April 7, 2017 by RobertFKennedyUS

[TUXs]

There's definitely something wrong that people can see when they discuss with him. Definitely expect that if he disagrees with your opinion then he will inject something stupid into it and then criticize it for the stupid component that he attached to it himself.

 

Straw man debate tactic

Absolutely he does lol...ALL the time. It's comical.

[BlackSilverRoar]

I'd like to see a name purge too. But it has its own problems, ie, it allows all those credit spammers access to more possible names and combinations that don't need to be fhdjdjdndndk

 

No, you just want names that you DON'T rate. Also, you're too cheap to pay 90cc for a server transfer is the real issue.

 

Don't try to mask it with population "concerns". Veteran players have seen that underhanded tactic since the first merge. WE'RE NOT FALLING FOR IT. The credit spammer remark is pure nonsense, there will always be plenty of available names for spammers - now more than ever since spacebar.

Johny-come-latelies just want names held by veteran players and keep pleading: WAH~~, for a server merge to bypass seniority.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Willjb

[vingmotor]

i dont want the pvp crowd on our server tho. they are usually very toxic.

[TUXs]

i dont want the pvp crowd on our server tho. they are usually very toxic.

That's very biased of you. I've run into far more rude PvEers and RPers (as a percentage) than I have PvPers. Every group has it's a-holes.

[HuaRya]

Say all you wan't I took a stroll going around the North American Servers between 11:30 and 12 EST. Thursday night has usually been a pretty active gaming night as people usually have a less hectic Friday than the rest of the week.

 

People numbers on Fleet:

1. Shadowlands 60'ish

2. Jedi Covenent 50'ish

3. Ebon Hawk 140's

4. Harbinger 220+

 

Now we all know since 5.0 came around Odessen wasn't the hub it was in 4.0 so Fleet is a pretty good barometer of what going on in. I was kind of surprised to see such a huge drop in 1 &2 and there was nobody forming groups on fleet at either of them. This time last year 1 & 2 had 40% more people on them.

[Icykill_]

No, you just want names that you DON'T rate. Also, you're too cheap to pay 90cc for a server transfer is the real issue.

 

Don't try to mask it with population "concerns". Veteran players have seen that underhanded tactic since the first merge. WE'RE NOT FALLING FOR IT. The credit spammer remark is pure nonsense, there will always be plenty of available names for spammers - now more than ever since spacebar.

Johny-come-latelies just want names held by veteran players and keep pleading: WAH~~, for a server merge to bypass seniority.

 

Oh look another troll has appeared and not a very good or skilled one... lol.. /ignore

Edited April 7, 2017 by Icykill_

[RobertFKennedyUS]

So YOU'RE the self-appointed "voice of reason" - LOL, sure~~ you are (*snickers). Trolling: you mean your INCESSANT consecutive posts; you're like a little kid with a tantrum trying to convince yourself you're right (I'm not implying you're old, nevermind mature.) Logical: you mean you trying to ignore or belittle ANY opposing view that [don't kid yourself] the vast majority of players DON'T share. Keep speculating like it's fact.

Ratajack IS right: Dulfy is a tertiary or THIRD HAND source, NOT first hand - Learn the difference and look up opinion in the dictionary, because it's NOT fact.

 

Your scare tactics aren't working either, as they haven't for years. Go take your doom and gloom, end of SWTOR, Y2K, end of the world, etc. garbage and do the TOR community a favor and WAH-quit the game like the OP.

 

I read your post with Icy's post attached. This is what I saw:

 

Icy's legitimate and measured arguments:

"When new players come to try the game and find they are on a server with low population, the perception is the game isn't doing so well. When returning players login to find their server has low population and look to see a vast majority are the same, then they are likely to leave with the same perception. These people will tell others they're point of view of the game and less people are likely to even bother trying it. Then you get people who haven't even tried the game, but have heard from third parties that the game is dying and word spreads not to bother trying it. "

 

I see you trolling with laughs, sarcasm, personal attacks, sh*t talk and telling a player to leave the game:

 

"So YOU'RE the self-appointed "voice of reason" - LOL, sure~~ you are (*snickers). Trolling: you mean your INCESSANT consecutive posts; you're like a little kid with a tantrum trying to convince yourself you're right (I'm not implying you're old, nevermind mature.) "

 

"Your scare tactics aren't working either, as they haven't for years. Go take your doom and gloom, end of SWTOR, Y2K, end of the world, etc. garbage and do the TOR community a favor and WAH-quit the game like the OP. "

 

The worthless trash and trolling are your posts.

Edited April 7, 2017 by RobertFKennedyUS

[RobertFKennedyUS]

I just wanted to say that it has been my experience that while I am sure someone can make some kind of half-way decent argument against server mergers there really hasn't been much of an argument so far in so far as there has been trash-talking.

 

The trash-talking that is used against the server merge argument usually involves:

 

* The Straw man debate tactic (i.e. it's ok with you for people's guild ships to be nuked)

 

* Personal attacks (i.e. you're too cheap to do a server transfer)

 

* Psycho-babble (if you want to see a server merge you have a psychological disorder, which are described in half-assed psychological jargon, one of the earlier posts has a variation of this where the person who is in favor of a merger is basically slandered as a narcissist)

Edited April 7, 2017 by RobertFKennedyUS

[kodrac]

i dont want the pvp crowd on our server tho. they are usually very toxic.

 

I get more toxicity from the PvE group finder than I ever do from PvP.

[Andryah]

Obstinate, but it's not without merit. There are some notorious few that are completely irrational in their demands (and it seems their access to the forums is longer being paid for) but it's not every one of them. Middle ground can be found and somewhat has been (in this thread and others floating around here), but it gets drowned out by the insults, name calling and bickering.

 

The reality is there are different factions in the discussion, as usual.

 

One faction wants more population on Harbinger, through forced merges, in the thinking that forcing players to Harbinger will somehow result in more people random queuing. It won't.

 

Another faction alleges they are only concerned about the experience of new players who for whatever reason choose one of the old dead PvP servers, get discouraged, and then leave. While this might happen to some new players.. in reality any new player of an MMO very likely either asks in forum here or on reddit, or takes time to google for a few minutes.... to actually find out "where the action is" before settling on a server. And even if they do not.. they can always use the perpetually deeply discounted server transfers to remedy a bad decision after the fact.

 

Another faction believes that given the inability of the studio to merge servers and not destroy guilds in the process, forced merges are bad, and that players who want to be on a more populated server should make use of the now perpetual low cost server transfer features offered by the studio.

 

And we of course have the "MEGASERVER" faction too.. which wants all servers consolidated into some magical megaserver approach. But it is completely unclear that the studio can effectively shift to a megaserver approach, as it was clearly never designed to be that way from the start, so huge rework and bugs would be expected from such an effort.

 

For the most part, these factions simply talk past each other, and then double back and personally attack one another over nothing more then difference of opinion.

 

Let's now attempt to unwrap the chain from the axle here and look at this question of server merges in context. For North America (I'll leave it to EU players to address the EU servers), the servers status of health is roughly as follows:

 

>> Bastion, PoT5, Jung Ma: These three former PvP servers have been largely abandoned over the last 18 months by PvP players who took advantage of low cost transfers to move to, for the most part, aggregate on The Harbinger. The question is relevant as to what the studio intends to do about these three largely deserted servers. I would imagine that the lack of ability to move guilds intact at this point in time is why the studio appears to be sitting on thumbs on these three. Given that most players on these servers left long ago, it's hard to take it seriously when someone demands these be closed/merged.. as what would that achieve really in terms of any measurable improvements in player location?

 

>> Shadowlands and Jedi Convenant: these servers are still active and thriving, even at lower player activity levels. The reasons they continue to have healthy economies, and player activities, is most likely long term residents, and less reliance on random grouping mechanics. In other words, they are more a combination of players who are less reliant on random grouping and/or get their group needs met within their guild and/or circle of friends. There are advocates for merging these two servers, but it does not appear to be advocacy by actual members of these servers, so it's some form of insurgent action by players who do not even play on these servers.

 

>> Ebon Hawk: The second largest server (by population) in NA. Healthy, generally well regarded by it's residents, and with a very clear RP activity level on the server. To suggest this server needs merging with any other server IS ABSURD.

 

>> The Harbinger: Clearly the biggest of the North American servers, and always has been (since the last great merge and deployment of scalable servers). It has retained it's status as the biggest, through yearly ebb and flow of players actively playing the game. It has benefited from more transfers into it then transfers out of it as well... and is generally recognized as "home server" for the avid PvPers now days. Given The Habingers long history of going squirrelly when heavily loaded, in my view, argues against merging other servers into it.

 

>> Begeren Colony: The smallest of the active servers, and it is valid debate as to when and if it should be folded into another server. It still has loyal players on it, but it is pretty small activity levels since the low cost transfer era and hence it tends to have less activity in terms of economy, player activity, etc. Yet it continues to have loyal residents that don't want it merged. Given the studio is apparently unwilling or unconcerned to address the three empty former PvP servers, it is completely unclear when (if ever) the studio would take action to address this server.

 

The various factions can dig in and stick to their viewpoints, which is fine... but they would be wise to talk in context and in specifics to each server rather then some of the more agregious "all servers are dead but Harbinger" nonsense.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Andryah

[RudeDog]

And this is why they don't listen to you, respect your opinion or accept your point of you. You chastise and disrespect them at every opportunity so why should they bother listening? You're only hurting yourself and your cause. The "I don't want to be merged crowd" has been hurt more by bad representation than the opposition. Calm down and take them on rationally and maybe you'll get more support for your cause. You're not endearing anyone.

 

Actually, the people that don't respect his opinion are the ones that constantly make these server merge threads. I can only speak for myself, but I am tired of the requests for server merges. If I don't like the server population on the server I am on I will take the responsibility to move to a more populated server based on my risk / reward standards. I certainly don't want BW to force server merges and force me to go somewhere I don't want to go and I don't want to deal with all the negative aspects of the merger like name loss. I have already lost names due to server merges in the past and I am still not happy that I lost those names.

 

If you don't like your server population, just transfer to the server of your choice. Stop trying to negatively impact me.