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3.3 and why it was patched in (Devs and Musco should read since they forgot)


Lhancelot

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A big thanks to Aceite for finding the 3.3 patch notes!

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/pvp-economy-and-ranked-rewards-restructure-game-update-3.3

 

Below is what was written by SWTOR devs regarding 3.3

 

Community News

06.01.2015

 

PvP Economy and Ranked Rewards Restructure for Game Update 3.3

 

Hello PvPers! As some of you may have heard on the Bad Feeling Podcast, we are making a few changes to Warzones and Ranked Warzone Arenas. Alex covered several of these changes in the interview but for clarity, and as an official jumping-off point for discussion, we wanted to go over the changes and the reasoning behind them here. Please feel free to join us in the discussion thread linked below. Let’s get started!

 

PvP Gear Cost

 

We think that getting a full set of PvP gear is too much of a grind. This is so much the case that only about 2% of PvP players have a full Dark Reaver set. Having at least Exhumed gear is a barrier to entry to being successful in PvP for the majority of players, so we looked to reduce the time and cost of getting there. We have reduced the entry PvP gear costs by roughly a third, and a full set (not min/maxed) will now cost about 4075 Warzone Commendations. For the Dark Reaver/Ranked set we didn’t reduce the price as much, but Ranked Warzone Comms will no longer be used to buy them; pieces will now be purchased with Warzone Comms and the previous tier gear piece. (Ranked Warzone Comms have been removed from the game, but we’ll touch on that more in the Ranked Reward changes found below.) A full Ranked Gear set will now cost about 16,525 Warzone Comms, much less than the current price of around 29,000 Ranked Comms. The exact prices are still being finalized, but this is the spirit and intent of the changes to PvP gear prices that you'll be seeing. In addition, the character cap for Warzone Comms will be raised to 200,000 and the Daily/Weekly Missions will have increased Credit rewards. These changes will make it easier and faster to gear up and get to a competitive level in PvP. Our hope is that the reduced grind makes for a more enjoyable Warzone experience.

Increased Warzone Rewards

 

We found that the Warzone Experience and Credit rewards were not keeping up with the rest of the game, so we'll be giving them both a boost. Players can expect to receive double the XP and double the Credits for a completed match.

 

Legacy Lockbox

 

When we fixed the unintended ability to transfer Warzone Comms to other characters within a Legacy, we got lots of feedback from players requesting a legitimate way to make those transfers. After some discussion, we have come up with a solution: Warzone Commendation Legacy Lockboxes. Each PvP Items vendor (on either Fleet), will begin selling a Warzone Commendation Legacy Lockbox that can be purchased for 99 Warzone Comms and will contain 99 Warzone Comms. The Lockbox can be transferred between Legacy characters.

 

Ranked Reward system

 

The current Ranked Warzone reward system indirectly promotes players to stop queueing after they have gotten to the tier that they feel they will end up at for the Season, which lowers the amount of people who participate for the duration of the season. To combat this we wanted to give reasons to queue for the entire season without implementing something draconian-esc as rewards for playing each day of the season. We have come up with a system that we feel gives players a reason to play all season long and keep the Ranked population competitive and having fun.

 

Ranked players will no longer receive specific item rewards at the end of the season for reaching a certain rating in a Ranked Season. Instead, players will be granted a number of Season-specific tokens based on the tier of rating the player achieved. These tokens will be used to purchase the ranked rewards the player wants after the season has ended. For example, if you don’t like the Silver tier title, the Bronze tier title can be purchased instead for less tokens. In addition to receiving a large amount of Season-specific Tokens at the end of the season based on the tier placed (enough to buy the entire tier of rewards), players will now receive these season-specific tokens for every match they play based on match outcome and performance medals. A player that wins the match with max medals gets a larger amount of Comms than a player that gets the minimum number of medals and loses, at roughly a 1:18 ratio. We believe that this system of awarding Comms based on performance of the team and the individual will create a distinction between just playing and playing well.

 

The intention here is to encourage players to be engaged over the length of the season and continually attempt to improve and compete at a higher skill level. The better you are and the more you play, the more rewards you will be able to purchase. Since highly skilled players can still play the minimum number of games and earn the Gold tier rewards at the end of the Season, we feel this is the best of both worlds of rewarding both skill and time investment.

 

End of Season Rewards will be available for purchase from a vendor in the Combat Training area of each fleet for the entirety of the following Season. For example, Season 6 rewards will be available during Season 7 and will be removed from the vendor when Season 8 starts. If you have unused Season tokens they will be converted automatically into Warzone Comms when they can no longer be redeemed for Season Rewards. This gives players a large window to purchase the Season-specific rewards and still get something back from leftover, unspent Tokens.

 

In addition, there is at least one Reward per tier that is exclusive to the tier (cannot be purchased) so you can still show off that you earned the Reward based on skill alone.

 

As a few examples of the participation level needed for the Gold tier mount, a player who does not place in Bronze or above would need to play more than 60 games per week for the entire season at a 50% win rate, earning max medals each match, while completing every daily and weekly to purchase the mount (but if they lost every game and got the minimum number of medals it would take about 5000 games in a season to accrue the Comms needed). This gets easier for players that place in rating tiers, but a Silver rated player would still need to play more than 18 games a week, winning half their games, achieving max medals each match, completing every daily and weekly for the entire season while not purchasing any other rewards to afford the mount. These numbers are ballpark but we feel that they have a good balance between being physically obtainable so players will feel like they have the ability to achieve them, while still being a significant challenge and investment.

 

One more note, Top 96 players will be rewarded enough Season-specific Comms to purchase every reward for the season, in addition to their exclusive reward. They are the cream of the crop and have earned it.

Miscellaneous PvP Changes

 

There will be two other small changes to PvP in Game Update 3.3, one for regular Warzones and the other for Ranked.

 

In Warzones, capturing an objective (on Alderaan or Voidstar, for example) will no longer be interrupted by AoE effects. This change should reduce the stagnation on objectives and allow for more diverse defensive strategies.

 

In Ranked Warzones, in order for a character to enter the queue they will need to be wearing gear that gives them max expertise. This will prevent inexperienced players, who may not be ready for Ranked play, from entering the queue until they have the appropriate gear.

 

We hope you enjoy these PvP changes and look forward to your feedback!

 

The SWTOR Combat Team

 

Essentially what Snave is pointing out is that the grind should not be frontloaded for gears as it is.

 

In 3.3, they understood this and even talk in length on why they made the early sets of PVP gears easier to get.

 

They said to get the dark reaver set, yes it would take longer but at least with the entry level gear set it would be easy for players to get their foot in the door and participate without too large of a gear gap between themselves and those in top tier PVP gears.

 

I just want to know, how in 2 years time a dev team goes from being logical to totally illogical regarding gearing?

 

3.3 also included more options to move accrued comms through legacy making it so the players had more freedom and choices with how they spent their winnings, essentially enabling them to gear their alts easier.

 

All of the fun aspects of the gearing system have been stripped away and replaced with a very inconsistent gearing system relying on RNG and a heavy grind mechanic now.

 

This is stupid, and an awful direction to take the game. Period. This company knows it too.

 

Just 2 years ago they patched in huge changes at the time to make the gearing system better, yet now they revert back to a system they themselves removed due to being too grindy!

Edited by Lhancelot
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Thank you for digging this up, Lhance. It's so on point to what we are dealing with at the moment, it makes the current "wait-and-see" nonsense we keep getting truly mystifying.

 

I got to be honest, I had no way of knowing how to find this, and thankfully Aceite on the forums provided this 3.3 patch note link.

 

I am piggy backing something he found. I was wondering if it was even still around, no idea how he got it, just glad he did.

 

I knew and remembered them even mentioning how they wanted it EASIER to get entry gear sets, which is why I am at a loss as to how they have decided to go back to the very system that was too grindy which they phased out!

 

A big thanks to Aceite for providing this link of 3.3 patch notes.

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Just 2 years ago they patched in huge changes at the time to make the gearing system better, yet now they revert back to a system they themselves removed due to being too grindy!

Yep, exactly. Thanks for digging this up. I remembered this, but was a little foggy on some of the details.

 

It makes no sense to us players, but the developers are not stupid people with short memories. My theory is as follows. They were bleeding subs in 4.0 and figured that it was because players became geared too quickly and became bored, quit the game. The 5.0 gearing was designed to try and keep their subscription numbers up with the classic carrot on a stick approach. Here's some shiny new gear that we know you all will want. Let's lace the carrot with an addictive compound (RNG crates = gambling addiction) and tell you that you have to remain a subscriber in order to keep getting your LSD carrot hit. We know that most players will be outraged by this, but we can gauge their reactions initially. We can fine tune the system to be more rewarding slowly over time as we concede that yes, it was too grindy. Our mistake. Look, we are taking steps to make it less grindy. Eventually they find the equilibrium sweet spot of balancing the grind vs the subscriber retention - putting the carrot at just the right spot to keep players active in the game without making them feel they will never get the carrot and giving up. Keep the donkey moving forward.

 

They certainly could have made a better initial starting point guesstimate for the placement of the carrot, but starting at an extreme buys them some more development time for new carrots.

Edited by teclado
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But back then you couldnt craft pvp gear and you didnt got mats for free due pvp for the gear you, remember, couldnt craft back then.

You can have gear super fast if youre willing to twink and do weeklies. ignoring facts you should not:csw_yoda:

Edited by Qwurdilu
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But back then you couldnt craft pvp gear and you didnt got mats for free due pvp for the gear you, remember, couldnt craft back then.

You can have gear super fast if youre willing to twink and do weeklies. ignoring facts you should not:csw_yoda:

 

Craftable gear will not get you a set bonus, which is the essential item entry level players will need that they don't already have. The rest of us have 208s to tide us over during The Eternal Grind. What craftable gear really does, is it allows folks who already have a set bonus to get pretty close to 242s much more quickly, but even that takes either millions of credits - which new players won't have - or an army of alts - which new players won't have either. So, I do not think your point is well taken.

Edited by Kurj
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Good post, bet they don't read it or acknowledge it because it's a complete 180 of what they are doing and saying now. That's how we know their rhetoric is complete bull crap at the moment.

 

Can I suggest you post this in the general section if you haven't already. I'm sure some of the newer players who don't frequent the pvp section would be interested. It's also more likely to get noticed there

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Good post, bet they don't read it or acknowledge it because it's a complete 180 of what they are doing and saying now. That's how we know their rhetoric is complete bull crap at the moment.

 

Can I suggest you post this in the general section if you haven't already. I'm sure some of the newer players who don't frequent the pvp section would be interested. It's also more likely to get noticed there

 

Yep I posted it there too after a couple guys here suggested that. Thanks!

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Yep, exactly. Thanks for digging this up. I remembered this, but was a little foggy on some of the details.

 

It makes no sense to us players, but the developers are not stupid people with short memories. My theory is as follows. They were bleeding subs in 4.0 and figured that it was because players became geared too quickly and became bored, quit the game. The 5.0 gearing was designed to try and keep their subscription numbers up with the classic carrot on a stick approach. Here's some shiny new gear that we know you all will want. Let's lace the carrot with an addictive compound (RNG crates = gambling addiction) and tell you that you have to remain a subscriber in order to keep getting your LSD carrot hit. We know that most players will be outraged by this, but we can gauge their reactions initially. We can fine tune the system to be more rewarding slowly over time as we concede that yes, it was too grindy. Our mistake. Look, we are taking steps to make it less grindy. Eventually they find the equilibrium sweet spot of balancing the grind vs the subscriber retention - putting the carrot at just the right spot to keep players active in the game without making them feel they will never get the carrot and giving up. Keep the donkey moving forward.

 

They certainly could have made a better initial starting point guesstimate for the placement of the carrot, but starting at an extreme buys them some more development time for new carrots.

 

This so much.

 

They have little to no funding, and they have to resort such desperate measures to keep the game afloat. And while I can see this might work slightly better with the pure PvE folks, it is back firing massively with us PvP folks.

 

Just imagine if they had funneled all the money from GC, Uprisings, DVL, Kotfe and Kotet into actual MMO content, and left the gearing aspect alone. I bet it could have bought at least one full operation and perhaps even a Flash Point and a warzone. But I guess it's better to piss off most your player base.

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This so much.

 

They have little to no funding, and they have to resort such desperate measures to keep the game afloat. And while I can see this might work slightly better with the pure PvE folks, it is back firing massively with us PvP folks.

 

Just imagine if they had funneled all the money from GC, Uprisings, DVL, Kotfe and Kotet into actual MMO content, and left the gearing aspect alone. I bet it could have bought at least one full operation and perhaps even a Flash Point and a warzone. But I guess it's better to piss off most your player base.

 

This is what blows me away. All the money. All the time. All the dev work, thrown into a gearing system that they actually have removed once already.

 

Sure, it's a little different.

 

Fancy name, "Galactic Command", with a fancy new loot box system you get to open, etc., but it's RNG and a gear grind heavy system that was proven unpopular and unsuccessful already.

 

I feel sorry for devs that are forced to do this work. Then they get blamed for it. It can't be the devs fault tbh, it has to be leadership above forcing their hands to do this stupid, awful work.

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Yep, exactly. Thanks for digging this up. I remembered this, but was a little foggy on some of the details.

 

It makes no sense to us players, but the developers are not stupid people with short memories. My theory is as follows. They were bleeding subs in 4.0 and figured that it was because players became geared too quickly and became bored, quit the game. The 5.0 gearing was designed to try and keep their subscription numbers up with the classic carrot on a stick approach. Here's some shiny new gear that we know you all will want. Let's lace the carrot with an addictive compound (RNG crates = gambling addiction) and tell you that you have to remain a subscriber in order to keep getting your LSD carrot hit. We know that most players will be outraged by this, but we can gauge their reactions initially. We can fine tune the system to be more rewarding slowly over time as we concede that yes, it was too grindy. Our mistake. Look, we are taking steps to make it less grindy. Eventually they find the equilibrium sweet spot of balancing the grind vs the subscriber retention - putting the carrot at just the right spot to keep players active in the game without making them feel they will never get the carrot and giving up. Keep the donkey moving forward.

 

They certainly could have made a better initial starting point guesstimate for the placement of the carrot, but starting at an extreme buys them some more development time for new carrots.

 

I am pretty sure devs are well aware of the 180 change in philosophy, I do not think the "carrot & stick" is the approach here. I think the goal is to minimize the PvPers and end PvEer, together with any high content consumption player group. These player groups are the most demanding and highly influential, as they are guild leaders, high volume forum posters, the ones that create guides, etc... Their presence is poisonous to BW, as they keep exposing their flaws.

 

BW has no intention to produce content and their overlords are not willing to invest money. Minimizing these groups while trying to retain SW fanboys, super casual players, CM players and casual story players is probably the goal. I look at the new gearing system, the feedback and BW response, and there is no other logical conclusion. You either subscribe for the it or you do not care about. Otherwise BW response is F off, which many players will.

Edited by Ottoattack
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This so much.

 

They have little to no funding, and they have to resort such desperate measures to keep the game afloat. And while I can see this might work slightly better with the pure PvE folks, it is back firing massively with us PvP folks.

 

Just imagine if they had funneled all the money from GC, Uprisings, DVL, Kotfe and Kotet into actual MMO content, and left the gearing aspect alone. I bet it could have bought at least one full operation and perhaps even a Flash Point and a warzone. But I guess it's better to piss off most your player base.

 

Apparently its just one new person at the top with this RNG agenda. They need to fire this person or tell them to do their homework as to why RNG failed in the past and why we had the pvp gearing system we had in 4.0.

This person should not have so much power to push a personal agenda like this just because they like it.

Zero consultation with the community and they just decide to do a 180' turn on the gearing system and expect there won't be backlash.

This is just another example of Bioware's cultural arrogance of telling players what they decide we want and not asking us what we want or giving us what we ask for,

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I am pretty sure devs are well aware of the 180 change in philosophy, I do not think the "carrot & stick" is the approach here. I think the goal is to minimize the PvPers and end PvEer, together with any high content consumption player group. These player groups are the most demanding and highly influential, as they are guild leaders, high volume forum posters, the ones that create guides, etc... Their presence is poisonous to BW, as they keep exposing their flaws.

 

BW has no intention to produce content and their overlords are not willing to invest money. Minimizing these groups while trying to retain SW fanboys, super casual players, CM players and casual story players is probably the goal. I look at the new gearing system, the feedback and BW response, and there is no other logical conclusion. You either subscribe for the it or you do not care about. Otherwise BW response is F off, which many players will.

 

This is very well very possible.

 

It is very hard to swallow the notion that they are so incompetent that they would accidentally re-introduce a system proven to be unfair, unpopular, and unsuccessful two years later after removing an almost identical system.

 

Then again it would be easier and take less money if they simply disabled pvp outright, and put out a letter to hardcore raiders that they would be going in a different direction thus reducing the dev work for raiding.

 

I mean why put so much time and energy into creating such an elaborate trojan horse?

 

Either reason for 5.0 and 5.1 is highly disappointing though, that much most of us agree on.

Edited by Lhancelot
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I got to be honest, I had no way of knowing how to find this, and thankfully Aceite on the forums provided this 3.3 patch note link.

 

I am piggy backing something he found. I was wondering if it was even still around, no idea how he got it, just glad he did.

 

I knew and remembered them even mentioning how they wanted it EASIER to get entry gear sets, which is why I am at a loss as to how they have decided to go back to the very system that was too grindy which they phased out!

 

A big thanks to Aceite for providing this link of 3.3 patch notes.

 

You're welcome. I wanted to get this out there as the current grind is a complete reversal of Game Update 3.3. I just must have searched for the right thing for it to come up. The shoutout really goes to Dulfy. I remember finding it there first.

Edited by aceite
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Gearing should be fast and simple. Rarely anyone sticks to one character in this game. Before 5.0 it was all about gearing alts and playing more than one toon, especially in pvp. I played every day since 5.0 and I still don't have tier 3 in galactic command. Like *** is that. Gearing should be fast and simple. I am at a disadvantage in pvp here and I dont get pve ops team friends to do hardest content with to get best crafting schematics. I should be getting schematics from pvp based on my rating, not on my command rank. My gear is absolute trash and I am performing only because I am matched against low quality players most of the time. : l

 

 

Cxp needs alternative rewards. Nice, visual and cosmetic stuff. Every single piece of gear GC rewards is a bloody VANILLA reskin. Let GC reward gear but at a much quicker rate. By Tier 3 it should be dropping cosmetics that people can trade and long for. Sure you can spend some time developing these.

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You're welcome. I wanted to get this out there as the current grind is a complete reversal of Game Update 3.3. I just must have searched for the right thing for it to come up. The shoutout really goes to Dulfy. I remember finding it there first.

 

Very nice man! I wanted to make sure you got credit for originally posting this because of what a great find this was!

 

I was thinking where to find these very patch notes... I had remembered when the devs mentioned how small of a percentage of people actually had the top tier PVP gear sets (2%) meaning the gear grind was just too much.

 

I just can't believe that now we are going back to a heavy grind for gear sets which means that again 2% if lucky, will probably have a top tier gear set on a toon... smh.

 

I couldn't believe it when I found your post with the 3.3 patch notes in it buried in a thread that was soon to be a dead end.

 

Sadly I don't think we will ever get an answer as to why the company decided to basically destroy the progression they had made in the gearing system with 5.0 and 5.1.

 

I personally think the 3.3 patch was one of the best ever, and I even remember when it was put in, how happy I was and everyone else was who pvp'd.

 

If you remember many of us who PVP'd a lot used to have to rotate (buy then sell to reset the 2 hour lockout timer) the different PVP items to accrue wz comms circumventing the stupid limit we had on comms.

 

I remember having 60-70 weapons in my inventory by the time I hit cap level, all with a 2 hour timer I had to babysit daily. The worst was forgetting the timer running out making it so you could not sell back for wz comms rofl.

 

I know Yolk forgot his timers after having a huge number of weapons saved up at least once. :p

 

The legacy boxes for comms so you could transfer comms to and from alts fixed this problem, it was awesome.

 

Anyway, thanks again Aceite. Nice work digging it up! :)

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Before Game Update 3.3, I would slowly work my way to a full set. I usually got halfway there before there was a new set of gear and a restart. After the update I had several characters with full sets and would switch around whom I would use for a different experience. I didn't personally, but I had buddies who played the game with the timers. Some got burned as well.

 

Now I don't see a path to Tier 2. I had to switch to my assassin because the Republic side rarely gets a warzone on my server. Only on one character am I in the thirties in command rank. The bottom line is playing once or twice a week is not enough time, and the goal is so far out of reach that it is frustrating.

Edited by aceite
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Wasn't 3.3 an entirely different dev team back then ?

 

But does it really matter?

 

If you began as a new director of a car factory, would you throw away the newest model of cars and start over, not even bothering to see what was created prior to the latest model? I doubt it.

 

If you had half a brain, you'd have researched the history of cars already made, and have an understanding of what the present customers prefer most before you started creating a brand new car.

 

Seems clear the new direction of this gearing system was created by someone very out of touch and blind to what was working well and what did not work well from the past.

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