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EAware, why are you forcing players to choose an advanced class?


Talon_strikes

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And yet you haven't been able to provide a single one despite having seen many good arguments.

 

 

 

No, that was never the intention of the developers.

 

You cited the class progression video(s) earlier which clearly indicate that a player is supposed to go down one of two different paths, not stay the way they started the game.

 

Over time due to the way various changes were made to the leveling process players could hit level 10 much quicker than the game originally intended. The vanilla experience was designed in such a way that you would be at the fleet by level 10. That's no longer the case.

 

The stuff you're saying isn't that far off from the things people were saying about hybrid classes back when those were removed from the game and yet somehow the game survived perfectly fine and benefited more from doing away from hybrids.

I did provide one major argument for base classes earlier:

The thing is, whether it was intended or not, my point still stands. I've seen many good arguments for leaving base classes in. They introduced new players to what they can expect and aided them in a CHOICE. That choice also ended up surprisingly including the choice NOT to choose an advanced class and continue the gameplay going forward.

Moreover, moving on to choosing an advanced class was still entirely optional. It would show up in your mission log, but the game never forced you to choose one.

 

At this point the devs are doing themselves a disservice by taking away other nice and surprising options (whether unintended or not) that used to exist, when the game is going through a severe MMO content drought and has been for almost half its lifespan.

 

Because your choice hurts your teammates. Simple as that. In a game with forced grouping, it's pretty reasonable for Bioware to enforce minimal standards of effectiveness for the good of the groups you'll be in.

There are a lot of veteran SWTOR players, including myself, who would sorely disagree with that assessment. These past 2½ years have discouraged grouping and group content over solo play and singleplayer content.

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I did provide one major argument for base classes earlier:

 

No you didn't, because what you stated wasn't a good reason or an argument.

 

The base class experience became null and void once they changed the leveling process. It may have made sense at one time but it no longer does with the way the game currently operates.

 

Moreover, moving on to choosing an advanced class was still entirely optional. It would show up in your mission log, but the game never forced you to choose one.

 

It was never intended to be optional though. They never believed people wouldn't chose an Advance Class.

 

By your logic it's justifiable to cheat or exploit a glitch in the game just because it's possible to do so.

 

You in your own failed logic cited the class progression video(s) which once again clearly indicate that you're supposed to chose an advanced class.

 

At this point the devs are doing themselves a disservice by taking away other nice and surprising options (whether unintended or not) that used to exist, when the game is going through a severe MMO content drought and has been for almost half its lifespan.

 

It's not a disservice, it's actually a service to the rest of the game's population to not have to deal with people like you anymore.

 

There are a lot of veteran SWTOR players, including myself, who would sorely disagree with that assessment.

 

Too bad that you and those veterans don't represent a significant enough portion of the population to matter.

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I play PvP not only to win, but to have fun as well. This was how I was enjoying SWTOR going through massive content drought cadences. Playing base classes I still found myself outperforming others who were advanced classes.

 

 

Yes, the class progression trailers. I know of what you're talking about during that time of SWTOR's development--I was there too! :p

 

However, I was literally a non-healing Sith Inquisitor and I was never kicked out of a PvP match. Ever. What usually happened were some people who would say something like "Oh hell no" right when they saw me on their team and proceeded to leave the match. :o

 

The thing is, whether it was intended or not, my point still stands. I've seen many good arguments for leaving base classes in. They introduced new players to what they can expect and aided them in a CHOICE. That choice also ended up surprisingly including the choice NOT to choose an advanced class and continue the gameplay going forward.

 

 

Read above reply.

 

 

LOL that's a hilarious story. RIP in peace Fruitcake. I unfortunately ended up choosing an advanced class for my Sith Inquisitor, but thankfully I still have pictures to remember his former self. :(

 

 

So what you're saying is, you basically used one of those level boosters on a character and you have yet to choose an advanced class? :eek: Please say it is so! :o

 

That's exactly what I am saying. I used one of those boosts. I was surprised. I haven't had to yet choose a side. Normally I'm forced into choosing tank or dps. It didn't come up. I almost forgot about it till someone here mentioned how they were forced to choose.

 

Juggernaut is your advanced class. Your discipline is your "spec" and where you would get your more specific DPS or tanking abilities.

 

 

So its Normal then? It didn't ask me DPS or Jugg. I do use one handed light saber.

Edited by Narrowsws
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kinda hoping that making people choose an "advanced" class at character creation is so they can market the game to new players, and say they've got 16 classes to choose from.

 

Heck, they'll probably spin it as "new content"

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That's exactly what I am saying. I used one of those boosts. I was surprised. I haven't had to yet choose a side. Normally I'm forced into choosing tank or dps. It didn't come up. I almost forgot about it till someone here mentioned how they were forced to choose.

 

So.. it let you stay as a "Sith Warrior" base class? No it did not, and you know it. :rolleyes: The OP is talking about being upset he cannot stick with his base class any more.

 

As stated earlier, which you completely disregarded... disciplines can be changed at any time, and so you not selecting a Tank vs DPS role on your boosted character is simply denying you access to spending your discipline points, and hence gimping yourself to some degree.

 

So its Normal then? It didn't ask me DPS or Jugg. I do use one handed light saber.

 

I hate to use an old cliché here.. but "actually read and understand what you are responding to" seems very appropriate in this case.

 

It DID make you choose Juggernaut or Marauder.... right? You know.. one of two available advanced class choices for the Sith Warrior base class.

 

The character creation UI.. if you pay attention... boosted character, or level 1 character, makes you choose from one of two ACs for each base class before it even lets you create the character and log in.

 

Disciplines are a different matter entirely. You can change them when you like, or never select one if you like... but that means you cannot spend your discipline points either.

Edited by Andryah
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No you didn't, because what you stated wasn't a good reason or an argument.

Based on what exactly?

 

The base class experience became null and void once they changed the leveling process. It may have made sense at one time but it no longer does with the way the game currently operates.

If it's mainly based on this then that's not a really good argument. You can't deny the fact that base classes have been in the game since its inception. You were never forced to actually choose an advanced class if you really didn't want to. But guess what? The choice was always still there.

 

It was never intended to be optional though. They never believed people wouldn't chose an Advance Class.

Well, a few did but I don't see how it really hurts this game. Actually created more sandbox and more variety in a game that's been going through a drought by lack of new features and content for 2½ years.

 

By your logic it's justifiable to cheat or exploit a glitch in the game just because it's possible to do so.

No--because cheats and exploits are ALWAYS unintended AND there are rules in place (such as a Terms of Service) and specifically state partaking in such actions will include penalties up to and including account closure.

 

In all fairness base classes were intended. You even partially admit that yourself in the 2nd part of your post. Base classes have been a part of the SWTOR experience for almost 5 years before they were removed--5 years.

 

You in your own failed logic cited the class progression video(s) which once again clearly indicate that you're supposed to chose an advanced class.

Hey, I'm not the one comparing the usage of the play style of base classes to usage of cheats and exploits. :rolleyes:

 

It's not a disservice, it's actually a service to the rest of the game's population to not have to deal with people like you anymore.

No comment.

 

Too bad that you and those veterans don't represent a significant enough portion of the population to matter.

Take a look at the SWTOR population data and EA quarterly reports. They beg to differ.

 

That's exactly what I am saying. I used one of those boosts. I was surprised. I haven't had to yet choose a side. Normally I'm forced into choosing tank or dps. It didn't come up. I almost forgot about it till someone here mentioned how they were forced to choose.

 

 

 

 

So its Normal then? It didn't ask me DPS or Jugg. I do use one handed light saber.

No, never mind. I read your post too quickly. You actually did choose an advanced class. :( What you haven't chosen yet is a spec, namely a discipline, which isn't as "flashy" as playing as a base class.

 

Heck, they'll probably spin it as "new content"

I wouldn't be surprised if they include it as a part of a major expansion called "Attack of the Advanced Classes!" LOL!

Edited by Talon_strikes
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Based on what exactly?

 

The fact that it's not a good argument and that what you're saying is simply born out of your own selfish needs/wants/desires.

 

If it's mainly based on this then that's not a really good argument.

 

It doesn't matter if it's good or not, it's simply the reason why. The reason why can't always be satisfactory.

 

You can't deny the fact that base classes have been in the game since its inception. You were never forced to actually choose an advanced class if you really didn't want to. But guess what? The choice was always still there.

 

You're acting like it's a Light Side/Dark Side choice and it's not. It's a part of the game you simply ignored. It's not a choice on the level you're making it out to be.

 

Oh and once again they got rid of hybrid classes for similar reasons and it didn't destroy the game. The game only ended up benefiting from it.

 

Well, a few did but I don't see how it really hurts this game. Actually created more sandbox and more variety in a game that's been going through a drought by lack of new features and content for 2½ years.

 

A few people aren't enough reason to keep X part of the game the same if there's a bigger benefit to changing it.

 

No--because cheats and exploits are ALWAYS unintended AND there are rules in place (such as a Terms of Service) and specifically state partaking in such actions will include penalties up to and including account closure.

 

Except X thing might not be considered an exploit or problem until Bioware decides that it is, much like in the same way Bioware decided that base classes were no longer needed.

 

In all fairness base classes were intended.

 

And so were many other things. The game has changed a great deal since it’s launch. To expect everything to remain exactly the same in an MMO is ridiculous. Systems, mechanics, etc, are constantly retooled, overhauled, tweaked, removed, added, and so on all the time.

 

You even partially admit that yourself in the 2nd part of your post.

 

I never said they weren’t intended, but they were never designed to be used past a certain point and that’s always been pretty clear.

 

Base classes have been a part of the SWTOR experience for almost 5 years before they were removed--5 years.

 

So, you could say the same thing about anything that gets changed/removed from the game. For instance “Hybrid classes were a part of SWTOR for 3 years” “Unique companions were part of SWTOR for 4 years” whenever those things got changed.

 

You keep suggesting that just because something has been part of SWTOR since launch that there’s no reason to change it, but that’s not the case with SWTOR or any MMO. Nothing would ever in change in an MMO with that mentality.

 

Hey, I'm not the one comparing the usage of the play style of base classes to usage of cheats and exploits.

 

Nice non response, but what a shocker, you have no defense against that statement, so you post something that has nothing to do with it to try and deflect attention away from it.

 

You’re the one that referenced the class progression video(s) even though they went against the argument you were trying to make. Note the class PROGRESSION videos as in the classes are supposed to progress. It’s not my fault that you idiotically brought up that point in your argument that made absolutely no sense bring up given what it was that you were trying to say. Nice going there genius.

 

No comment.

 

Wow another example of your same genius logic. I messed up the grammar in that sentence but you avoid the actual point at hand.

 

Players like you don’t benefit the game. You might think that you’re not bothering anyone, but you’re definitely not being an advantage when playing the way you do with others.

 

Take a look at the SWTOR population data and EA quarterly reports. They beg to differ.

 

No they don’t. In no way do they reflect that there is a significant portion of the game’s population that wants base classes to return.

 

In what world do all the people crying for more story and group content overlap with the people that want base classes to return? Where are all the other people complaining here on the forums about base classes being gone? Where are all the people that are jumping to your defense in this thread or agreeing with you?

 

The Galactic Command system in 5.0 has been a major complaint, cause for concern, etc, across the game’s population. Base classes being removed haven’t, so stop acting like it’s a big deal when in reality the amount of people that it negatively effects is probably in the single digits.

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Upon logging in on my level 55 Sith Inquisitor, the window to choose an advanced class popped up and it could not be bypassed. I could not do anything with the character until I chose an advanced class. I challenged myself in PvP by playing non-advanced classes. Why are you forcing this? I demand it goes back to base classes and that advanced class choice becomes optional again. And here most people thought SWTOR was a game of choice... so much for that! :rolleyes:

 

They removed base classes from the game XD

Could maybe be why they want you to choose just like anyone else when they start

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/r/Dkw3P9

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I have to disagree with the OPs request. I feel that moving the advanced class to level one was a wise move, and makes the choice FAR more meaningful than before.

 

If you wish to make the game challenging within your class, you are still capable of avoiding a spec by refusing to choose one and use your points. So you can still do that.

Edited by LordArtemis
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OP, I'm sorry you can't play base class anymore. I'm having trouble figuring out where all the false outrage is coming from that you (or anyone) did that for so long, but this is the internet after all.

 

That said, I myself like that you now pick advanced class at level 1. It gives you a much quicker flavor of what you're going to be playing for the next 70 levels, as opposed to grinding to 10, picking an advanced class, and later realizing (much, much later with slower rate of acquisition of class-defining abilities in the old system) that you hate the playstyle of the class you chose.

 

I wonder if you could just ignore all of the advanced class abilities you get and play only the "basic" abilities that are shared between both advanced classes? It's a thought. Then you could change your name to something like "True Warrior" and still play the way you want.

 

And enjoy the outrage as it pours in :)

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