EAware, why are you forcing players to choose an advanced class?

[Talon_strikes]

Upon logging in on my level 55 Sith Inquisitor, the window to choose an advanced class popped up and it could not be bypassed. I could not do anything with the character until I chose an advanced class. I challenged myself in PvP by playing non-advanced classes. Why are you forcing this? I respectfully demand it goes back to base classes and that advanced class choice becomes optional again. Edited January 23, 2017 by Talon_strikes

[Grieverheart]

Because this is how the game was meant to be played.

[AllisonLightning]

Because this is how the game was meant to be played.

 

^ And because your teammates in PvP called and wanted to block you from their teams, OP. It's like empty slots- why should your team get disadvantaged for your whim. Story content is where you pull that, not in group content.

[Kallie]

Not going to happen.

[Nkya]

Challenge yourself by clicking your mouse with your nose in PVP instead.

[Hebruixe]

Because they're not convinced you were having fun.

[phalczen]

I challenged myself in PvP by playing non-advanced classes.

 

Translation:

I trolled my teammates because I couldn't think of anything better to do in game before I took a break three years ago.

[AlrikFassbauer]

You don't troill anyone if you play entirely solo with an non-advanced class.

Stop assuming that what you think is what everyone else thinks.

Edited January 14, 2017 by AlrikFassbauer

[phalczen]

You don't troill anyone if you play entirely solo with an non-advanced class.

Stop assuming that what you think is what everyone else thinks.

 

The OP specifically talked about pvp, which, as I'm sure you know Alrik, is distinctly NOT a solo experience.

[Talon_strikes]

Because this is how the game was meant to be played.

If this was truly how the game was supposed to be played, the devs wouldn't have created videos of the base classes and then the evolution of the advanced classes before launch. The base classes wouldn't have been a part of the SWTOR experience for almost 5 years.

 

^ And because your teammates in PvP called and wanted to block you from their teams, OP. It's like empty slots- why should your team get disadvantaged for your whim. Story content is where you pull that, not in group content.

With all due respect, I play the game the way I want to, as long as its within the ToS. No one wanted to block me from PvP. What I can recall, is a lot of people having tears and laughter after seeing a high-level base class enter their WZ/arena.

 

The OP specifically talked about pvp, which, as I'm sure you know Alrik, is distinctly NOT a solo experience.

It was not trolling. If it was I would have been sanctioned. Nothing I did violated the ToS. I created a rather amusing challenge for myself, and enjoyed this choice I made. With 5.0 the devs took this choice away from me and threw all my hard work out the window.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Talon_strikes

[Smuglebunny]

With all due respect, I play the game the way I want to, as long as its within the ToS.

 

Guess what. You are done doing that.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Smuglebunny

[Jedi_riches]

It might have been in the TOS but doing any group content with just a base class (unless with all close freinds) is not fair to the group you are with, you are missing a huge amount of abilities and passives and are pretty much dead weight in a warzone.

 

I don't pvp often but i do play to with a intention to win and regardless of a players skill I at least expect my teammates to have the same idea do their best to win, if they can't at least they gave their best but someone with no advanced class is not giving it their best.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Jedi_riches

[americanaussie]

You will troll pvp no longer. And they have said on stream this is the way it's meant to be played

[Darth-Obvious]

If this was truly how the game was supposed to be played, the devs wouldn't have created videos of the base classes and then the evolution of the advanced classes before launch. The base classes wouldn't have been a part of the SWTOR experience for almost 5 years.

 

Because they didn't expect that anyone would intentionally not choose an advanced class. Those class videos shows that you're supposed to choose one of two paths. It must have become a big enough problem that they finally changed it. They probably never would have changed the system if it weren't for people like you.

[Rabenschwinge]

If this was truly how the game was supposed to be played, the devs wouldn't have created videos of the base classes and then the evolution of the advanced classes before launch. The base classes wouldn't have been a part of the SWTOR experience for almost 5 years.

 

You are talking about this video I presume:

 

The evolution of a typical base class armor appearance (i.e. no stats, just looks), namely that of the bounty hunter. That is because a bounty hunter always uses heavy armor, regardless of what their advanced class is. And that was merely an example, there were more sets of armor than bounty hunters could use throughout their advancement through levels than were shown in the video.

 

They were a bit fuzzy about advanced classes pre-release and took them a while to clarify what that actually meant. On top of that there was a large number of "experienced" players (namely players who came to MMOs through World of Warcraft and didn't know much else) who were insisted that a thing such an advanced class could only be a minor thing with no impact on the role; a jedi consular was supposed to be a healer. There was a video of a boss fight in the Esseles where a Jedi Consular acted as healer. There was an entire faction that considered that "shadow" would be an "off spec" of consular, whereas only "wizards" (later renamed to "sages") would be the only true consulars and a shadow, or a consular who refused to heal, would never find a group because they were could not possibly any other role with proficiency.

 

There was a lot of things about advanced classes the community got wrong pre-release. Mostly because the largest faction of players were influenced by WoW and couldn't imagine that there were any difference between WoW and SW:TOR at all. Every deviating opinion was ridiculed.

 

I distinctly remember a very vocal guy with a lot of pull in the forums with a lot of pull in the community who had something like "I can't wait to see how all the non-healing consulars get kicked out of every group" in the forum signature.

 

The video does not prove that the game was intended to be played without picking an advanced class. At that point they were still busy figuring out the advanced classes however, thus the information that there would be advanced classes came late and was very sparse.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Rabenschwinge

[CrazyCT]

So, you're saying that the player was supposed to evolve? Admitting you weren't following how the game was supposed to be played?

[Kaldron_Fell]

I had a Sith Warrior that I got to 55 before 4.0 hit. I was so proud. It was hard work, and I had to use all I got, and quite often it was tedious and I died a lot, but I did it. Finished class story and all.

 

There was this one instance where a conversation bugged out, probably because of the fact I was still base class. So I asked technical support, and that was the only time I ever got into a live chat with a CS rep. He was very surprised and said he'd never seen anyone with such a high level base class. He gave me a couple of free XP boosts and told me to keep rocking!

 

Now I can't bring myself to log into that character. It will sit there forever in my character list, remaining a level 65 sith warrior.

 

Goodbye, Fruitcake. I will miss you

 

BTW: I never ever did group content with it because that would've been stupid.

[Wallner]

And here most people thought SWTOR was a game of choice... so much for that!

Myeah.. Gave up that thought back in 2010.

[Narrowsws]

I was a little surprised I didn't have pick an advanced class yet. I play a boost Jugg. They never asked me if its DPS or Tank. Is that odd at all?

[Talon_strikes]

It might have been in the TOS but doing any group content with just a base class (unless with all close freinds) is not fair to the group you are with, you are missing a huge amount of abilities and passives and are pretty much dead weight in a warzone.

 

I don't pvp often but i do play to with a intention to win and regardless of a players skill I at least expect my teammates to have the same idea do their best to win, if they can't at least they gave their best but someone with no advanced class is not giving it their best.

I play PvP not only to win, but to have fun as well. This was how I was enjoying SWTOR going through massive content drought cadences. Playing base classes I still found myself outperforming others who were advanced classes.

 

You are talking about this video I presume:

 

The evolution of a typical base class armor appearance (i.e. no stats, just looks), namely that of the bounty hunter. That is because a bounty hunter always uses heavy armor, regardless of what their advanced class is. And that was merely an example, there were more sets of armor than bounty hunters could use throughout their advancement through levels than were shown in the video.

 

They were a bit fuzzy about advanced classes pre-release and took them a while to clarify what that actually meant. On top of that there was a large number of "experienced" players (namely players who came to MMOs through World of Warcraft and didn't know much else) who were insisted that a thing such an advanced class could only be a minor thing with no impact on the role; a jedi consular was supposed to be a healer. There was a video of a boss fight in the Esseles where a Jedi Consular acted as healer. There was an entire faction that considered that "shadow" would be an "off spec" of consular, whereas only "wizards" (later renamed to "sages") would be the only true consulars and a shadow, or a consular who refused to heal, would never find a group because they were could not possibly any other role with proficiency.

 

There was a lot of things about advanced classes the community got wrong pre-release. Mostly because the largest faction of players were influenced by WoW and couldn't imagine that there were any difference between WoW and SW:TOR at all. Every deviating opinion was ridiculed.

 

I distinctly remember a very vocal guy with a lot of pull in the forums with a lot of pull in the community who had something like "I can't wait to see how all the non-healing consulars get kicked out of every group" in the forum signature.

 

The video does not prove that the game was intended to be played without picking an advanced class. At that point they were still busy figuring out the advanced classes however, thus the information that there would be advanced classes came late and was very sparse.

Yes, the class progression trailers. I know of what you're talking about during that time of SWTOR's development--I was there too!

 

However, I was literally a non-healing Sith Inquisitor and I was never kicked out of a PvP match. Ever. What usually happened were some people who would say something like "Oh hell no" right when they saw me on their team and proceeded to leave the match.

 

The thing is, whether it was intended or not, my point still stands. I've seen many good arguments for leaving base classes in. They introduced new players to what they can expect and aided them in a CHOICE. That choice also ended up surprisingly including the choice NOT to choose an advanced class and continue the gameplay going forward.

 

So, you're saying that the player was supposed to evolve? Admitting you weren't following how the game was supposed to be played?

Read above reply.

 

I had a Sith Warrior that I got to 55 before 4.0 hit. I was so proud. It was hard work, and I had to use all I got, and quite often it was tedious and I died a lot, but I did it. Finished class story and all.

 

There was this one instance where a conversation bugged out, probably because of the fact I was still base class. So I asked technical support, and that was the only time I ever got into a live chat with a CS rep. He was very surprised and said he'd never seen anyone with such a high level base class. He gave me a couple of free XP boosts and told me to keep rocking!

 

Now I can't bring myself to log into that character. It will sit there forever in my character list, remaining a level 65 sith warrior.

 

Goodbye, Fruitcake. I will miss you

 

BTW: I never ever did group content with it because that would've been stupid.

LOL that's a hilarious story. RIP in peace Fruitcake. I unfortunately ended up choosing an advanced class for my Sith Inquisitor, but thankfully I still have pictures to remember his former self.

 

I was a little surprised I didn't have pick an advanced class yet. I play a boost Jugg. They never asked me if its DPS or Tank. Is that odd at all?

So what you're saying is, you basically used one of those level boosters on a character and you have yet to choose an advanced class? Please say it is so!

[Ratajack]

I was a little surprised I didn't have pick an advanced class yet. I play a boost Jugg. They never asked me if its DPS or Tank. Is that odd at all?

 

Juggernaut is your advanced class. Your discipline is your "spec" and where you would get your more specific DPS or tanking abilities.

[Darth-Obvious]

The thing is, whether it was intended or not, my point still stands. I've seen many good arguments for leaving base classes in.

 

And yet you haven't been able to provide a single one despite having seen many good arguments.

 

They introduced new players to what they can expect and aided them in a CHOICE. That choice also ended up surprisingly including the choice NOT to choose an advanced class and continue the gameplay going forward.

 

No, that was never the intention of the developers.

 

You cited the class progression video(s) earlier which clearly indicate that a player is supposed to go down one of two different paths, not stay the way they started the game.

 

Over time due to the way various changes were made to the leveling process players could hit level 10 much quicker than the game originally intended. The vanilla experience was designed in such a way that you would be at the fleet by level 10. That's no longer the case.

 

The stuff you're saying isn't that far off from the things people were saying about hybrid classes back when those were removed from the game and yet somehow the game survived perfectly fine and benefited more from doing away from hybrids.

[annabethchase]

Upon logging in on my level 55 Sith Inquisitor, the window to choose an advanced class popped up and it could not be bypassed. I could not do anything with the character until I chose an advanced class. I challenged myself in PvP by playing non-advanced classes. Why are you forcing this? I demand it goes back to base classes and that advanced class choice becomes optional again. And here most people thought SWTOR was a game of choice... so much for that!

 

Because your choice hurts your teammates. Simple as that. In a game with forced grouping, it's pretty reasonable for Bioware to enforce minimal standards of effectiveness for the good of the groups you'll be in.

[phalczen]

With all due respect, I play the game the way I want to, as long as its within the ToS. No one wanted to block me from PvP. What I can recall, is a lot of people having tears and laughter after seeing a high-level base class enter their WZ/arena.

 

 

It was not trolling. If it was I would have been sanctioned. Nothing I did violated the ToS. I created a rather amusing challenge for myself, and enjoyed this choice I made. With 5.0 EAware took this choice away from me and threw all my hard work out the window.

 

With all due respect, when you queue up for a warzone, you are becoming part of a team, and that team's performance is impacted by your choices both before the warzone as well as within it. A player who queued up in full raid gear of the era (rating 168 Underworld through 186 Dread Master at the time of level 55s, i.e. the 2.x RotHC era) was going to be bolstered terribly relative to pvp gear and was going to be a detriment to the team. Initially they may have been ignorant. But L-RANDLE had a hundred page thread going at the time explaining how bolster worked and that you were going to be under-statted by being in raid gear. Ignorance of the bolster system could be excused, but if the player knowingly continued to queue up for pvp in raid gear they were knowingly hurting their teammates, and that could very easily be considered trolling or griefing.

 

Challenging yourself by sticking to a base class to make solo pve content harder was a reasonable approach, but the moment you step into a flashpoint or operation or warzone your individual challenge transforms into a handicap for your team. Many instances of griefing or trolling do not strictly violate the ToS, or even if they do they never get noticed by those who police the game. But if you seriously think that your choice had zero impact whatsoever on the other people you played with when you were in a warzone, then you are delusional.

 

If you would like to challenge yourself in the solo pve game moving forward, I recommend the following options moving forward:

1.) You may choose to roll toons on a new server, so that you will be lacking the legacy companion bonuses and the legacy datacron bonuses.

2.) You can refrain from giving your companion gifts, and refrain from using the legacy unlocks for increased influence gain from conversation options, so that your companion's influence level stays as low as possible, limiting their power. You could purposefully choose conversation choices that your companion will disapprove of, or use a companion that isn't part of the original 1-50 class stories or KOTFE/KOTET so that they do not react to conversations at all, such as HK-51, Treek, one of the cartel market companions, one of the free ones like Master Ranos or Nico Okarr. Alternatively, you could dismiss your companion altogether.

3.) Wear gear with empty shells, or no gear at all.

4.) Remove any advanced class abilities from your quickbars, and use only base class abilities.

5.) Finally, if its one of the KOTFE/KOTET chapters, change to Veteran, or after January 24, Master Mode difficulty.

 

Note that you can still do #1, 3, and 4 in pvp now, although you will still be hurting your teammates. I'm sure none of these options escaped your sharp eyes and keen intellect, honed by years of challenging yourself in pvp as a base class only, so the fact that you continue to argue your point only serves to solidify the notion that you were, in fact, trolling.

 

Good luck in your future endeavors, and please remember that when you queue up for group content your choices affect others.

[ekwalizer]

I have always said that ACs should have been required at character creation.

 

That said, existing story class characters at 50 or higher should have been grandfathered.