Alec_Fortescue Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) Watchman: Barely uses Ravage, extremely seldom in pvp. Still gets 5% damage bonus from burns for x secs as a talent. Combat: Keeps new ravage and gets an extremely powerful Melee ability. Fury: Get 35% of new Ravage damage done as a dot, still quite powerful ability. Now for Jugs: Vigilance: Absolutely nothing new to help with dealing damage. Dps gets shafted with lower numbers in comparison with 4.0 state. Hew same damage as Dispatch, just biger range and some slow. Virtually useless. Rage: Absolutely nothing. New talent is useless in both pve and pvp as it does not even align with optimal rotation. New utility for jugs makes chilling scream more powerful than other fillers but only by a little bit. It's aoe nature also makes it a meh thing for pvp as it is an awful stun breaker and consumes pooled hatred stacks, like shatter. So we get even more shafted. Very badly designed. Sure, it does good bit of aoe stacked up with your other stuff but you can't really enjoy it that much in rwz. Also requiring a talent to access to an optimal dps filler is just wrong. Edited December 26, 2016 by Alec_Fortescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdjeYo Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Watchman: Barely uses Ravage, extremely seldom in pvp. Still gets 5% dageam bonus from burns for x secs as a talent. That passive was introduced in 4.0. Annihilation actually got nothing new in this patch, Juyo was changed into a passive, and that's all that changed. Rage: Absolutely nothing. New talent is useless in both pve and pvp as it does not even align with optimal rotation. What do you mean doesn't align with optimal rotation? It allows for a free Furious Strike every other Furious Strike, it isn't really needed for rage management, but it does make the spec somewhat more forgiving I suppose. What I would really want for Rage is for Ravage to reduce the cooldown on Obliterate and Raging Burst too. Because using both Chilling Scream and Ravage in the current rotation, leads to one having to wait about .5 seconds for Obliterate to come off cooldown. As for Vengeance, I feel that it isn't in such a bad place, we should probably get some more damage on Ravage, and I would love for Piercing Chill to be nerfed and be replaced with a proc giving a cheaper and stronger Vicious Slash, or a Retaliation proc allowing it to be used rotationally. But the rotation does flow very nicely as it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdjeYo Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) Combat: Keeps new ravage and gets an extremely powerful Melee ability. Fury: Get 35% of new Ravage damage done as a dot, still quite powerful ability. While Carnage does get a pretty powerful melee ability, it is worth noting that the Ravage dot used to be a Carnage talent, so they didn't just lose damage because of the Ravage nerf, this talent was also taken away from them. As for Fury, ye they did get a quite nice talent, but Fury is still slumming somewhere just below the middle of the DPS pack, although slightly higher than Rage. Edited December 26, 2016 by AdjeYo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted December 26, 2016 Author Share Posted December 26, 2016 Dude, the final passive for Rage spec is useless. It only lasts 2 gcds and the optimal rotation for best possible dps does not align with it well. Also 2 gcds is nowhere near enough time in pvp with so many roots, knockbacks and other cc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdjeYo Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Dude, the final passive for Rage spec is useless. It only lasts 2 gcds and the optimal rotation for best possible dps does not align with it well. Also 2 gcds is nowhere near enough time in pvp with so many roots, knockbacks and other cc. While I agree 2 GCD's is ridiculously short, as I far as I know this coincides with the optimal rotation. The top parses on Parsely use Force Crush -> Furious Strike, Force Crush -> Ravage - Furious Strike or Force Crush -> Force Scream -> Furious Strike. Using one of these also was the norm before the patch, so I don't really see how it doesn't align well. That said, I would be nice to have it last a little longer, especially for PvP (or just replaced with something else, considering rage management would also function without it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Watchman: Barely uses Ravage, extremely seldom in pvp. Still gets 5% damage bonus from burns for x secs as a talent. Combat: Keeps new ravage and gets an extremely powerful Melee ability. Fury: Get 35% of new Ravage damage done as a dot, still quite powerful ability. Now for Jugs: Vigilance: Absolutely nothing new to help with dealing damage. Dps gets shafted with lower numbers in comparison with 4.0 state. Hew same damage as Dispatch, just biger range and some slow. Virtually useless. Rage: Absolutely nothing. New talent is useless in both pve and pvp as it does not even align with optimal rotation. New utility for jugs makes chilling scream more powerful than other fillers but only by a little bit. It's aoe nature also makes it a meh thing for pvp as it is an awful stun breaker and consumes pooled hatred stacks, like shatter. So we get even more shafted. Very badly designed. Sure, it does good bit of aoe stacked up with your other stuff but you can't really enjoy it that much in rwz. Also requiring a talent to access to an optimal dps filler is just wrong. Vengeance is fine, honestly the chilling scream utility needs to be nerfed, Ravage needs to be buffed, and we need a proc for Vicious Slash to allow us to have the filler we need for the rotation to work properly if we don't have chilling scream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted January 1, 2017 Author Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) Vengeance is fine, honestly the chilling scream utility needs to be nerfed, Ravage needs to be buffed, and we need a proc for Vicious Slash to allow us to have the filler we need for the rotation to work properly if we don't have chilling scream. It's not fine. I am going to quote someone "important" (you saw that yourself) that "Vengeance should be one of the highest parsing specs" and I want to see it there. Even you ranked single-target dps as 6/10 in your guide. It's nowhere near fine. I'd rather see aoe nerfed so I can get that single target damage for both raid bosses and PvP, because dotspreading is not always a good thing in rated, especially in healer games where it's a lot of about cc. I am tired of dealing fluff damage and being unwanted in pugs because of my class. Jug/Guardian was the only class really affected by 4.0 nerfs (only vanguards got significant nerfs later in the year), unreasonably so. You didn't agree with those changes either. Need to get BP / Shatter back to how it was before 4.0 nerfs, Ravage damage significantly buffed so it can actually be a key, burst attack given how everything else but Overhead / Impale is just fluff. Master Focus talent should be unnerfed from 5% to higher value and so should Burn /Bleed Master to 15% from 9%. It's just sad when you see Vanguard's FILLER do more instant damage than your key abilities. Even in PvP vanguards are in much better spot. Their dcds can be argued that they're worse but before they die they are capable of dealing much more damage and do not rely on setting up bleeds or enemies clustering for dotspread. Also pooled hatred is still broken... Edited January 1, 2017 by Alec_Fortescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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